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GMC Forum _ PRACTICE ROOM _ The Metronome
Posted by: Eat-Sleep-andJam Aug 26 2007, 03:39 AM
Ok honestly Ive never been really serious with the metronome 
*Sigh*, I just get lost in the beats when different things are played at higher speeds and I dont quite now how to piece it together so what im playing is still musical but then again is still simple enough that I can play to the sync. of the beat. Does that make sense ?
Ok so im going to make this post pretty organized so hopefully I can get some help and start to develop some demon speed 
Suprisingly I do have fairly good speed without using the metronome ! Yet I never quite know how fast im playing.
Heres my first and pretty much main problem. Staying in Sync
Now dont be fouled but all my lack of information. I do know about the metronome, what it does and etc. I understand that most pieces are in 4/4 time signature and each measure has 4 beats. I understand the triplets are 3npb and 6tuplets are 6npb. And how to apply that to the piece of music im trying to play.
This is a tab from Pavels " Ionian Scale Speedpicking lesson found in the2nd video
|--6--| |--6--| |--6--| |--6--| |--6--| |--6--| |--6--| |--6--|
E||--20-19-17----------------------------------------------------------------|
B||-----------20-18-17-20-18-17----------------------------------------------|
G||-----------------------------19-17-16-19-17-16----------------------------|
D||-----------------------------------------------19-17-15-19-17-15----------|
A||-----------------------------------------------------------------19-17-15-|
E||--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|--6--| |--6--| |--6--| |--6--| |--6--| |--6--| |--6--| |--6--|
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|--19-17-16----------------------------------------------------------------|
|-----------19-17-15-19-17-15----------19-17-15----------------------------|
|-----------------------------19-17-15----------19-17-15-19-17-15----------|
|-----------------------------------------------------------------19-17-15-|
The piece itself is in 6-tuplets ( very fast) and I dont have much trouble with the sequence its just playing it to the beat thats the hard part. At around 40bpm I can stay pretty well with 6-tuplets but as I started to go higher, lets say 70bpm, the beat itself is so fast I cant count " 1-2-3-4-5-6" at that rate and eventually just am totally lost . Im using this http://www.pinkandaint.com/weirdmet.shtml and I dont believe theres any problem there I just want to be able to use the metronome effectly and continue my practicing without having to make topics like this. Its very easy for me to apply the metronome to sweeping picking, just not alternate picking.
Thanks everyone any help is appreciated. Note: Ive watched Krisses Metronome video endless amounts of time and ive learned what I can from it but im still not getting the cash from the bank 
If you know what I mean.
- John
Posted by: shredmandan Aug 26 2007, 04:16 AM
*Sigh*, I just get lost in the beats when different things are played at higher speeds and I dont quite now how to piece it together so what im playing is still musical but then again is still simple enough that I can play to the sync. of the beat. Does that make sense ? Ok so im going to make this post pretty organized so hopefully I can get some help and start to develop some demon speed
Suprisingly I do have fairly good speed without using the metronome ! Yet I never quite know how fast im playing. Heres my first and pretty much main problem. Staying in Sync
Now dont be fouled but all my lack of information. I do know about the metronome, what it does and etc. I understand that most pieces are in 4/4 time signature and each measure has 4 beats. I understand the triplets are 3npb and 6tuplets are 6npb. And how to apply that to the piece of music im trying to play.
This is a tab from Pavels " Ionian Scale Speedpicking lesson found in the2nd video
|--6--| |--6--| |--6--| |--6--| |--6--| |--6--| |--6--| |--6--|
E||--20-19-17----------------------------------------------------------------|
B||-----------20-18-17-20-18-17----------------------------------------------|
G||-----------------------------19-17-16-19-17-16----------------------------|
D||-----------------------------------------------19-17-15-19-17-15----------|
A||-----------------------------------------------------------------19-17-15-|
E||--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|--6--| |--6--| |--6--| |--6--| |--6--| |--6--| |--6--| |--6--|
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|--19-17-16----------------------------------------------------------------|
|-----------19-17-15-19-17-15----------19-17-15----------------------------|
|-----------------------------19-17-15----------19-17-15-19-17-15----------|
|-----------------------------------------------------------------19-17-15-|
The piece itself is in 6-tuplets ( very fast) and I dont have much trouble with the sequence its just playing it to the beat thats the hard part. At around 40bpm I can stay pretty well with 6-tuplets but as I started to go higher, lets say 70bpm, the beat itself is so fast I cant count " 1-2-3-4-5-6" at that rate and eventually just am totally lost . Im using this http://www.pinkandaint.com/weirdmet.shtml and I dont believe theres any problem there I just want to be able to use the metronome effectly and continue my practicing without having to make topics like this. Its very easy for me to apply the metronome to sweeping picking, just not alternate picking.
Thanks everyone any help is appreciated. Note: Ive watched Krisses Metronome video endless amounts of time and ive learned what I can from it but im still not getting the cash from the bank
If you know what I mean.- John
Hey dude
Wish i could help you but i dont even know what any tuplets are??
I did want to ask though is that correct on the tabs were it says you play two strings together 
Just sounds really weird and i didnt know if it was a typo.
Posted by: fkalich Aug 26 2007, 04:40 AM
Thanks everyone any help is appreciated. Note: Ive watched Krisses Metronome video endless amounts of time and ive learned what I can from it but im still not getting the cash from the bank
If you know what I mean.- John
You are looking at this in the wrong way. Metronomes are for your basic tempo. But the granular rhythms, such as a 6 tuplet rhythm, are not simple like that, you have to learn them by ear, they have accents and subtleties which cannot be reduced to anything that simple. you have to listen to someone playing them, and work for that rhythm. The metronome tells you where to play the 6 tuplet unit, but the rhythm and accenting of the 6 tuplet itself must be learn by ear.
edit: well, I can sort of describe it, at least the rhythm and accenting that I use. it is sort of like
be-de da ba-da-da
say that fast repetitively.
no, I take it back, it is more like...
be-de-de ba-da-da
but you get the idea, learn this by ear, listening to others play them. sometimes you have to listen fast, the teachers sometimes lose the rhythm and accenting when they show you how to do it slow.
Posted by: Eat-Sleep-andJam Aug 26 2007, 05:06 AM
edit: well, I can sort of describe it, at least the rhythm and accenting that I use. it is sort of like
be-de da ba-da-da
say that fast repetitively.
no, I take it back, it is more like...
be-de-de ba-da-da
but you get the idea, learn this by ear, listening to others play them. sometimes you have to listen fast, the teachers sometimes lose the rhythm and accenting when they show you how to do it slow.
Ok so what your saying is 6-tuplets cant be applied to the metronome ? I just need to try and mimic and work my way up to the speed of the instructor well still preserving the accentation ?
- John
Posted by: fkalich Aug 26 2007, 05:19 AM
- John
yeah, I think so. the metronome tells you WHERE to play the 6 tuplet, but the 6 tuplet itself is a unit with it's own rhythm and accent, and that just has to be in your ear, how to play it.
I would work on them, just play one repetitively, and get to where you feel you have a nice sound to it, where it is real bouncy, you know, where it sounds neat to play one repetitively, where it it has a nice bounce and flow.
then you put that into the music, at the right spot, according to where the metronome did it's beat. think of the tuplet as a unit, and insert it as a unit.
great rhythm and accenting is very subtle, can't be reduced to paper, but you know it when you have it. and then you just put it into muscle memory, and it becomes like walking, you don't have to think about it.
Posted by: muris Aug 26 2007, 05:24 AM
Well said.
Yes,you must feel groove of those 6 notes inside of one beat.
My advice,listen more to jazz or funk music.
Many rhythms there are based on shuffle feel, which IS 6 notes per beat.
More you listen,more you'll feel that beat inside.
Posted by: Eat-Sleep-andJam Aug 26 2007, 05:36 AM
Yes,you must feel groove of those 6 notes inside of one beat.
My advice,listen more to jazz or funk music.
Many rhythms there are based on shuffle feel, which IS 6 notes per beat.
More you listen,more you'll feel that beat inside.
Im finally starting to get the idea, I wish I had posts like this months ago
Thanks guys Now are triplets more do-able ? Could I play those to a metronome or what ?
- John
Posted by: muris Aug 26 2007, 05:41 AM
Thanks guys Now are triplets more do-able ? Could I play those to a metronome or what ?
- John
Of course you can John
Let metronome counts beats while you play 6 notes inside each beat.
Or you could play 3 notes per beat which is 8th triplet,
but if you slow metronome double time it'll be 2 triplets of 16th notes again.
Posted by: Eat-Sleep-andJam Aug 26 2007, 05:51 AM
Let metronome counts beats while you play 6 notes inside each beat.
Or you could play 3 notes per beat which is 8th triplet,
but if you slow metronome double time it'll be 2 triplets of 16th notes again.
If sped up woudnt the triplets eventually be faster then the 6-tuplets ?
- John
Posted by: muris Aug 26 2007, 05:57 AM
Yep
It'll be faster if you speed it up more than double time.
Posted by: fkalich Aug 26 2007, 06:03 AM
Yes,you must feel groove of those 6 notes inside of one beat.
My advice,listen more to jazz or funk music.
Many rhythms there are based on shuffle feel, which IS 6 notes per beat.
More you listen,more you'll feel that beat inside.
good words.
- John
NO! The 6 tuplet is not the same as 3 triplets. the rhythm and accenting on the first and second set of 3 notes is not identical.
this is very difficult, rhythm and accenting. both slow, and at speed. I have spent hours and hours trying to figure out such things a few bars of music, but it is worth the effort, really, this is what makes the better musicians stand out, not speed, speed is crap without this. this is what really really matters, and it is very very difficult to work on. it is so subtle, to get this where it really is just right. but if it is not just right, people can tell the difference.
edit: correction, I misread what you said, I thought you said that 2 triplets in sequence would be the same as a 6 tuplet.
Posted by: Eat-Sleep-andJam Aug 26 2007, 06:11 AM
NO! The 6 tuplet is not the same as 3 triplets. the rhythm and accenting on the first and second set of 3 notes is not identical.
this is very difficult, rhythm and accenting. both slow, and at speed. I have spent hours and hours trying to figure out such things a few bars of music, but it is worth the effort, really, this is what makes the better musicians stand out, not speed, speed is crap without this. this is what really really matters, and it is very very difficult to work on. it is so subtle, to get this where it really is just right. but if it is not just right, people can tell the difference.
edit: correction, I misread what you said, I thought you said that 2 triplets in sequence would be the same as a 6 tuplet.
Accenting is like one of those things that seperates the shreders from the wanna-bees correct? I think with hard work Ill get these speed runs to sound amazing.
- John
Posted by: muris Aug 26 2007, 06:14 AM
Wise words John,hard work solves many problems indeed!
Posted by: fkalich Aug 26 2007, 06:16 AM
- John
I feel that way. if you listen to say Gilbert, that is a good example of where you can hear someone who can play at speed, and still maintain coherent accenting and rhythm on each triplet, 4 note, whatever unit. And that is why he sounds good, and other guys playing that fast just sound like a blur. When they sound like a blur, they have lost the things we are talking about here.
btw, if you read this muris, great tapping lesson. really like that, because it is showing how to use tapping for music, where it just melds in, rather than standing out as sort of a circus trick. very good lesson, keep them coming.
Posted by: muris Aug 26 2007, 06:26 AM
Many thanks,I'll do my best!
Posted by: Eat-Sleep-andJam Aug 26 2007, 06:27 AM
btw, if you read this muris, great tapping lesson. really like that, because it is showing how to use tapping for music, where it just melds in, rather than standing out as sort of a circus trick. very good lesson, keep them coming.
Yeah you know and it becomes more obvious once you look at it. I understand now why Gilberts guitar kind of sounds for like of a better term like a " River " it just flows and flows well still remaining to be clean and precise.
Feel free to join me in chat if youd like to discuss any of this, its really a great topic.
And also this Ionian Scale thing is really helping me learn the major scale, and I didnt relise it ?
- John
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