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Posted by: yoncopin Feb 26 2017, 11:48 PM

In another thread I mentioned selling off my Fenders and had my eye out for something to take their place. I've got a few things I was looking for - 22 frets, flat fretboard, HSS, non-locking tremolo. So I was poking around my local Guitar Center and found this beauty. I can't believe it was on sale for $180. Needless to say, I bought it on the spot. After a fret polish and setup, it's plays like new and sounds awesome. Not that these are that expensive new, but the current finishes are kind of too much for my tastes. Such a deal I can't believe it...

Posted by: Rammikin Feb 27 2017, 02:37 AM

Solid mahogany body. Excellent bargain!

Posted by: Mertay Feb 27 2017, 08:19 AM

A year ago I was so close to buying one but the seller (a friend of mine) decided to keep it.

Its definitly one of those unknown but awesome guitars, hard to find a sound it can't get even with stock PU's. Very good find, enjoy

Posted by: Phil66 Feb 27 2017, 01:40 PM

Nice one Brian, good find

Posted by: Todd Simpson Feb 27 2017, 06:28 PM

Super congrats! Any NGD is a good thing IMHO An IBBY NGD is best of all

Posted by: AK Rich Feb 27 2017, 06:42 PM

Congrats Yoncopin, play it like you stole it!

Posted by: yoncopin Feb 27 2017, 06:48 PM

Thanks everyone I'm really excited about it. I'm going to put a spare JB in the bridge and tweak the electronics a bit. I'm going to try an experiment with a pair of these for the neck & middle, http://www.guitarfetish.com/KP--Premium-Overwound-Alnico-Strat-Pickups-Our-Best-Hot-Set--Kwikplug-Ready_p_21992.html. I'm hoping they make a big difference without investing too much.

Posted by: Mertay Feb 27 2017, 07:29 PM

Bridge pickup is 9.8K, Mid is 9.4K, Neck is 9.2K. Compare that to your vintage 5K strat pickups!

Whoa that is pretty hot! but yeah with a JB this should work, the stock PU's if I remember right were a bit too jangley if one has a pure solo/super strat-like tone expectation.

Posted by: yoncopin Feb 27 2017, 08:06 PM

Mertay, I think you know what I'm going for. You think those will work ok? I already ordered them, so I guess we'll just find out. I was looking at the Seymour Duncan SSL-5 at 13.3K and the Dimarzio FS-1 at 14.23 and figured the 9.*K would be just about right. The price certainly was.

Posted by: Mertay Feb 27 2017, 08:40 PM

There is no way of being sure but I think on paper it makes sense.

The jb isn't an uber-hot PU and since what you ordered won't be too compressed (with tonally enough breathing space) height adjustment can be used to balance them nicely. We also still don't know if the pot values/capasitor will give a proper high-end so the adventure is just starting

Posted by: yoncopin Feb 27 2017, 08:59 PM

This is what I meant by electronics tweaks. Since building the pedals, I've learned a lot about the guitar electronics themselves and have found that just tweaking the part values and wiring configurations makes a big difference in how much I enjoy a guitar. It costs virtually nothing too. I always now change the switch wiring to match the pickup combinations I want.

For this guitar (and generally) I've been using 500K audio taper volumes and 500k linear taper tone knobs. Then, since this guitar is using single coils (and for other bright humbuckers) I've taken to adding shunt resistors https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/24053-mod-garage-taming-highs-with-virtual-tone-controls to tame the high end and find the ideal value to pair with each pickup. I'll probably aim for 250K when on the single coil positions and 330-400k for the JB.

Lastly, the cap value. From what I understand the cap only defines the min-max range of the tone control's low pass filter. http://www.seymourduncan.com/tonefiend/guitar/customize-your-caps/ it doesn't affect the high end when full open. I'll probably try a .033uf or .022uf to get more fine control, since I rarely roll it all the way down.

Does that match with your understanding?

Posted by: Mertay Feb 27 2017, 11:20 PM

You definitly know what you're doing Cool article too, I didn't know such thing as a shunt resistor till now!

I prefer using OD to distortion (my soloing setup, a tubescreamer can also do) when adjusting the highs cause not only nasty highs but too much highs can also complicate harmonics in a bad way. Simply, if the driven tone gets more fluid (without darkening, mud or decrease of drive) when the tone knob is rolled down then decreasing pot value (or adjusting shunt resistor) must be considered.

About the capasitor, in my experience I heard the difference at the very high end of the tone (think fret buzz highs rather than clarity). My guess is although they cut at the same freq., different capasitors has different curves. I remember although the same value, my guitars high end extended a bit after I replaced the stock ibanez one with an orange drop (bought from stewmac). To find the right capasitor type, my advice is recording each example direct to the computer.

Oh and also don't rush and give many breaks while adjusting. After experiencing with my guitar, I now have huge respect to engineers who descide these parts. One can go crazy as it can get so detailed

Posted by: yoncopin Feb 28 2017, 12:18 AM

Well that's very nice of you to say That's confidence inspiring, I'm not always sure I do know what I'm talking about Thanks for the experimenting tips, I find another cool way for the component values is just to use alligator clipshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdfIZEB2rdM.

The shunt resistor is a very cool technique I discovered when mixing single coils and humbuckers. It allows you to present the pickup with the correct resistance and not have to compromise on a single value. If you stick the resistor to the pickup or switch you can have a unique value for each one, especially because individual potentiometer tolerances can vary the actual value quite a bit.

I'm optimistic about the pickups being good, whether they're what I'm looking for is always the question when getting new pickups (which is why cheap is good). There really isn't much engineering involved in reproducing a classic design, especially a single coil. It's just a wire wrapped around a magnet not rocket science. I have a theory that bad pickups are just the result of inferior parts and cost cutting my OEMs, I'm excited about finding a good source for pricing out the middle man. When I used to race mountain bikes I had very good success with purchasing carbon fiber direct out of southeast asia. I imagine the same is true here.

Posted by: Rammikin Mar 3 2017, 08:54 PM

I've got a JB in the bridge position on the one on the right. It sounds great.

Posted by: yoncopin Mar 3 2017, 09:08 PM

Excellent, my other pickups are arriving this afternoon. I can't wait to get home to put them in! I guess you like the S series huh? No SA's though? The HSS and non-locking bridge are really appealing to me as a change from my other Ibanez's Do you know if the S and SA are the same body?

Posted by: Rammikin Mar 3 2017, 09:28 PM

These aren't all my S series Ibanez's, these are just the S540's . I don't have any SA's at the moment, but I'm pretty sure the body on yours is basically the same as the one in the middle in my picture. The oil finish is beautiful but gets scuffed up a bit sometimes below the strings. I just touch it up with some oil.

Posted by: Mertay Mar 3 2017, 11:43 PM

Though the shape from the front are the same, the SA's body (if I remember right) thickness is right between an S and an RG and also the back is flatter than the S.

As someone used to the RG, the S when first tried felt odd to me cause of the thinness of the body but I didn't feel that with the SA.

PS; Rammikin's collection is super impressive

Posted by: Rammikin Mar 4 2017, 12:55 AM

Mertay's memory is correct. While they look the same from the front, they have a different thickness profile.

Posted by: AK Rich Mar 4 2017, 04:48 PM

Nice collection man! You really must love those S-series guitars. And you have other models as well?
I have an S-470 myself. I love how light they are.

Can you tell me what model this one is?
https://anchorage.craigslist.org/msg/6028555709.html

Posted by: yoncopin Mar 4 2017, 05:19 PM

Alright everything is installed and these pickups sound awesome! I'm VERY impressed, they are very similar to my Dimarzio Injectors but a bit brighter/clearer and obviously are true single coils so they hum a bit. Definitely worth the money and I got a pair for half the price of a single Dimarzio. I did have to shave down the bobbin because they didn't fit in my direct mount guitar, but mounted to the underside of a pickguard there'd be no issue. I'm suddenly very interested in demystifying the technical aspects of guitar pickups. I found this article on http://guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/7723/measuring-electrical-properties-guitar-pickups and am going to build/acquire come of the tools to get started. I think these GFS Overwound's are essentially SD SSL-5's and I have a Duncan Designed JB vs a real Seymour Duncan to be the first tests.

I also added my first treble bleed mod to the volume pot (150K/680pf in parallel) and am going to start adding it to all my guitars. I experimented with a few tone caps and settled on .022uf, though I liked the 0.15uf quite a bit and may go back. It had a great cocked wah sound when fully rolled off. I found 250K pots were also my favorite for both the JB and singles.

Mertay, I found this https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLO33g8sM_b8V2Z25rI2VPWFOb00X79wIn. This guy has a killer DIY tool for auditioning different wiring options, and you can see the results on the spectrum analyzer. I think I was right that the tone cap doesn't affect the sound much at all when full open. I'm going to try to design a more comprehensive one for myself and ?maybe? try to sell a few? I'll put it in a large pedal enclosure, but also thought about putting it in a guitar itself. You can get cheap raw guitar bodies and necks for very cheap from http://www.guitarfetish.comand I've wanted to experiment with DIY painting & finishing too. I've been curious what the final build quality would be like, but if it's to house a testing tool it wouldn't have to be a pristine player. I also thought about routing the back out to make it easy to swap pickups without affecting the strings/setup. Basically build a guitar for comprehensive testing of pickups and wiring options/mods. It'd be like my pedal cabinet but for guitars.

Posted by: Rammikin Mar 4 2017, 05:35 PM

From the Edge bridge, the HH V pickups, and wave inlays, I'd say that's an S520 from the early 2000's. It was made in Japan before they moved production of the standard models to Korea and Indonesia, so the workmanship is probably quite good. It was intended to be a low end model, but by today's standards it would be considered a deluxe model. The bridge in particular is rather nice. It looks like a super wizard neck, which is pretty slick. The 3-piece neck is something you don't find on standard models these days. Those necks had problems with slight cracks on the back of the locking nut around the holes drilled for the screws. It usually doesn't affect the playing, but it's something to look for.

Posted by: yoncopin Mar 4 2017, 05:46 PM

Funny, that same one is https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/msd/6006341278.html

I really like the finish one this one:

Posted by: AK Rich Mar 4 2017, 06:06 PM

Not a bad axe then, better quality than the one I have for sure. Thanks Rammikin!


What a coincidence on the brown S-series! Yeah I like that finish too. My S-470 has the quilted maple top as well, kind of an orange burst to red around the edges of the body.

Posted by: Mertay Mar 4 2017, 06:15 PM

Glad you liked them I've always read about GFS PU's being very good. It makes sense they're close to SD's as to my knowledge as company they don't hold many patents (like dimarzio). I wouldn't mind small noise on non-noiseless pu's as they have advantages on other aspects.

My only experience is with my modifications on humbuckers, I did take apart an ibanez inf once to try its parts but compared they were much less magnetic (even the magnet ) compared to dimarzio. My only advice can be is don't buy cheap china parts even if you're new to PU building cause even if you make everything right the result might still be muddy.

For treble bleed I keep reading good things about kinman but never tried it (only used the simple way).



With treble bleed I didn't notice huge difference between a cheap capasitor and an orange one. With tone pot I did but I remembered checking differences through headphones which might explain for some if the difference may not matter. To me (musically) a 0.15uf cap. is more of a character transformation thing compared to 0.22uf, its really a personal choice in the end which to choose but I always advise to play the guitar through a backing track.

Your "test guitar" is an interesting idea and I've always thought in secret thats how big companys test PU's before giving the prototypes to artists. My advice is to make a system so everytime you place a PU the height must be the same. I also remember some-guy made a rail system on the guitar so the same PU could be tested for both neck or bridge (or anywhere in between) when needed

Posted by: Rammikin Mar 5 2017, 01:31 AM

Yeah, the S470 was intended to be a lower-priced model so it has less expensive components than a S540 or S520. In general, the years from 1999 to 2005 were not good years for the S series but the S520 in 2001 is a notable exception.



The prestige models today (you can tell that's a prestige model from the binding) are some of the finest guitars Ibanez has ever made. Everything about them is top-notch. The only thing that is less than perfect for me (and this is probably just me) is I prefer a 22 fret neck. They moved the entire S series line to 24 frets in 2008. Next year will be the 30th anniversary of the S series and Ibanez is doing a great job of making sure they've got a great lineup for the anniversary.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Mar 6 2017, 05:33 PM

Now that is an impressive collection. Well done there

I've had an ibby addiction for quite some time and now I'm starting to look yet again. It never stops

Posted by: Rammikin Mar 6 2017, 08:18 PM

Yes, I do. Those are just my S540's . I also have S2170's in the S series. One in swirled ebony and the other in poplar burl. The S2170 model was a bit controversial, but it's every bit a Prestige model, with top of the line components and workmanship. And it has what I think is the best tremolo bridge ever made, the Ibanez ZR. I do have a special fondness for the S series. Like you say, it feels great next to your body, but still has a big sound due to the solid mahogany.

Posted by: AK Rich Mar 6 2017, 08:49 PM

Beautiful finishes on both of those guitars! I especially like the burled poplar. I am pretty sure that I have the ZR trem on my S-470. The trem with the additional springs and the dial on the back to adjust spring tension right?

[attachment=45933:m0p03p82...cdH8kxhg.jpg]

I like it much better now that I have removed the additional spring set, it now feels more like my original floyd rose trem which is still my favorite trem. Before I modified it, the resistance of the bar wasn't consistent as I depressed the bar. It felt hard to depress at first but the further it went down, the less the resistance seemed to be which just felt strange to me.

Posted by: Rammikin Mar 6 2017, 09:42 PM

Yes, that's it. I'm especially fond of it because of the silky smooth action on the ball bearings. And because it pivots on an axle, the bar attachment is closer to the fulcrum than you can get with a knife edge tremolo, so it's more responsive. An it doesn't wear out like a knife edge does. And the fine adjustment for the saddles is a brilliant idea. The quick adjust thumbwheel is awesome. Aside from making intonation adjustments a breeze, you can quickly switch from standard to drop D tuning. Try doing that with any other floating bridge!

The ZPS bar that you removed serves a purpose, but it's not for everybody, so that's why they made it easy to remove. I removed mine too. The problem is, people who didn't like the ZPS bar tended to fault the entire ZR bridge system, so it mistakenly got a bad reputation in some circles because of that. Eventually Ibanez got rid of the ZPS bar to help avoid confusing people. But in the end they had to stop producing the ZR bridge entirely because of legal problems. Nobody's talking, but it must have conflicted with a patent from somebody else. That's a shame since we've all lost a great tremolo bridge.

Posted by: AK Rich Mar 7 2017, 04:57 PM

I couldn't agree more with all the Pro's you have listed there. My favorite of those pros without a doubt is that quick adjust thumbwheel, brilliant! It really is a great trem and since I have modded, or de-modded it I guess you could say, I have no issues with it. I just like the trem I grew up with better I guess. I really like the trem on my new Prestige too.

I never knew that the ZPS bar had been removed on later versions. Nor had I heard of other folks removing the bar so I found that little nugget of information very interesting and am relieved to know I am not the only one who made the change.

I don't know where I heard or read it but I was under the impression that the ZPS system was meant to keep the guitar in tune if there was a string break. In my experience before I made the change, the ZPS failed in that claim, if it was indeed a claim made by the manufacturer's of that system.

Yeah it's too bad they have stopped production. I wonder who they may have infringed on.

Thanks Rammikin.

Posted by: Rammikin Mar 7 2017, 09:31 PM

The ZPS is basically the same as a tremsetter, it's a counterforce that is applied when you move the bar. So it forces the bridge back to the neutral position. That can help with conventional bridges that become worn and don't return properly to the neutral position. The ZR doesn't have this problem, so it makes no sense to put the ZPS on a ZR bridge. That said, it can help reduce intonation problems when bending one string while playing another (or when breaking a string), but not completely. In any case the big problem with having the ZPS installed is that you can't do flutters.

I suspect someone in marketing said: "hey we can advertise we have this nifty ZPS thing!" Someone in engineering said: "but it doesn't make sense on this bridge. " The compromise they reached was to make it easily removable, which most customers promptly did .

As I mentioned, this unfortunately tarnished the reputation of the ZR bridge when people confused ZPS with ZR. The ZR is really marvel. Notice how little the string height changes when you move the whammy bar compared to a conventional tremolo bridge. Ibanez really knows how to make good bridges as you can see from the Edge bridge on your new guitar.