Writing Instrumental Guitar Music, Let's Share Pointers |
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Writing Instrumental Guitar Music, Let's Share Pointers |
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Nov 10 2014, 09:05 PM |
Instrumental music is somewhat foreign to me in practice. I've only attempted it once or twice. I find it challenging mostly because if you approach it like a song with lyrics, your gonna be repetitive (overly, IMO). For instance, when I listen to Joe Satriani, I get tired real quick, mostly because he sticks to a vocal format. The droning bass and drums never change, and his epic solo is repeated 2x, with some blues and tapping licks. It just feels like I'm subjected to the same thing over and over again, which bores me.
I think to keep my interest, I would not want an instrumental piece to keep revisiting the same verse and chorus. Drums, bass lines, bascially the entire mood would need to keep changing. I would want to start at point A, move to B, keep moving to C, and then either end on A or end on D. Lyrics enable you change the texture of repeated verses and choruses freeing you up from the sense of repetition, which is why (I think) the Verse, verse, chorus, verse verse chorus pattern works - the words and how they are sung make the pattern not so repetitious. I'd also want to make a distinction between the average listener and a musician listener. For the average listener, an instrument like Joe Satriani's SWTA was consumable by the public because (again, I think) his playing showcased a dumbed down musicianship. I don't mean it wasn't great playing, I just mean he wasn't so technical that the non-musician wouldn't understand what was just played. We (musicians) listen to complicated pieces regularly in order to pick them apart, so we really get down to the nitty gritty of someone like Jason Becker, Malmsteen and are impressed. We hear most of the notes and can identify the arpeggios when we hear them. We know when something that was just played was amazing technical ability on display, versus just a standard run. The non-musician isn't picking apart the song like we are. They listen to the song as a whole and judge it on how the song moves them. As an average listener, I think Joe's formula worked for a time - it's simple to understand at face value, but I think that type of instrumental burned out listeners kindof like Yngvie burned out musician listeners. It's novel and exciting for a while, but it's a new era. That's my personal taste, and my taste has a knack of being off the beaten path, so just ignore my post. Cheeerios. This post has been edited by SirJamsalot: Nov 10 2014, 09:07 PM -------------------- The more I practice, the more I wish I had time to practice!
My Band Forum: http://passionfly.site/chat |
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Nov 11 2014, 03:58 AM |
I think to keep my interest, I would not want an instrumental piece to keep revisiting the same verse and chorus. Drums, bass lines, bascially the entire mood would need to keep changing. I would want to start at point A, move to B, keep moving to C, and then either end on A or end on D. Kind of like jazz and classical music Approach it like that ... idea > development > new idea > develop that > maybe go back to the first idea in a different key > end it. -------------------- - Ken Lasaine
https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/foolin-the-clouds https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/surfin-at-the-country-hop Soundcloud assorted ... https://soundcloud.com/klasaine3 New record ... http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/kenlasaine Solo Guitar ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...5iIdO2tpgtj25Ke Stuff I'm on ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...b-dhb-4B0KgRY-d |
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Nov 12 2014, 12:31 AM |
Riffs are pretty much rhythmic melodies (often) played in a lower octave. Since these bands' (Metallica, Maiden etc) strength is to write riff based songs - it is not unexpected this is the tool they will use for instrumentals as well. I agree writing strong instrumental songs probably is more difficult than writing vocal based ones - however both of these present a huge challenge. I guess it goes down to the human voice which is (if possible) even more expressive than the electric guitar. Especially considering the voice can tell stories on different levels, both melody- and lyrics wise. With a dynamic sound I think the electric guitar can compete with vocals (again, its handicap is the fact that it cannot convey lyrics). Also I am used to a compressed guitar sound, which helps to play smooth legato lines but but which is pretty useless for dynamic story telling type of sound used by Satch, and Neal Schon in the video Cosmin linked to. So the latter is something I plan on dealing with soon. Typically when I dial in a more dynamic kind of sound, I will think wow this sounds cool but it kills my technique...and then dial in something else. What I should do instead is stick with that sound which feels somewhat un-natural, and instead try to change my technique! Good points. Also, riffs are powerful blunt statements - they make you wanna hunt for your dinner instead of purchasing it at McDonalds. You can bounce your head and groan like a wombat, and feel cool doing it. Solos are smooth and divide the rythem - you can't really mosh to a solo - you need the bongos to do that! It goes back to the mood thing. This post has been edited by SirJamsalot: Nov 12 2014, 12:32 AM -------------------- The more I practice, the more I wish I had time to practice!
My Band Forum: http://passionfly.site/chat |
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Nov 12 2014, 10:22 AM |
What you CAN"T do is be boring. Boring your audience is a cardinal sin. Absolutely. The sin of all sins ! |
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Nov 12 2014, 02:29 PM |
Hello guys! About this amazing topic, I would like to share a thread created by a Gab's Army student in which he did a phrasing analysis and got 10 approaches to create phrases based on Joe Satriani's compositions.
Check it out, I consider it very rich and interesting: https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...c=53348&hl= You are also invited to expand it! -------------------- My lessons
Do you need a Guitar Plan? Join Gab's Army Check my band:Cirse Check my soundcloud:Soundcloud Please subscribe to my:Youtube Channel |
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Nov 13 2014, 06:40 AM |
*snip...But then I don't fully understand the 80s music scene either. Bite your tongue!!!!!!!!!! -------------------- The more I practice, the more I wish I had time to practice!
My Band Forum: http://passionfly.site/chat |
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Nov 13 2014, 04:09 PM |
Although I personally find Satch music absolutely mindblowing, I am still a bit amazed his 'Surfing' album made it to the masses. But then I don't fully understand the 80s music scene either. I was too! In the late 80s early 90s I had a non-muso girlfriend. The first time I went to her apt. I noticed that besides the usual non-muso records in her collection was Joe Satriani's 'surfing w/the alien' album. Asking her why she liked it didn't really reveal much ... "I think it's good music. All the songs have a mood and go together". In her non-technical way she was saying that they were songs - not just 'jams' or collections of riffs. Melody, harmony, rhythm put together in a good order (album programming) and it's all concise - it's not 'boring'. 'Normal' folks in the 80s and 90s had 'Surfing' in their collections for the same reasons normal folks in the 60s and 70s had 'kind of blue', 'dark side of the moon' and 'a love supreme' in their collections. It's just good music. *As for the 80s in general? I don't know ... and I was there This post has been edited by klasaine: Nov 13 2014, 05:33 PM -------------------- - Ken Lasaine
https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/foolin-the-clouds https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/surfin-at-the-country-hop Soundcloud assorted ... https://soundcloud.com/klasaine3 New record ... http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/kenlasaine Solo Guitar ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...5iIdO2tpgtj25Ke Stuff I'm on ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...b-dhb-4B0KgRY-d |
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Nov 13 2014, 11:27 PM |
Maybe it was because of Joe's haircut, perhaps you can dig up some old photos of you so we can get a hint about her preferences Btw Ken, you should tell us how this is done. Your "have a talk with good" is one of better instrumental tunes I have heard, the melody can be remembered after just one listen and it's a perfect illustration of call and response motive development! Thanks! Well, it's a Stevie Wonder song so I cannot take credit for the melody, only for choosing it. It's a blues progression which, IMO - that I to IV motion - is always a super strong and sure fire way to build a song/melody structure. I also tried really hard to get some of his vocal inflections into my playing of the melody. That guy can sing a song like no one's business. But beyond that, the development in my version of that tune is typically (generally) what you strive for in an improvised (jazz - ?) setting/context. Strong initial melody and then the song builds/changes/develops during the improvised sections/solos (it can conceivably go anywhere - ?) and then you bring it back to the main melody and end it. There are 1000s of exceptions to this of course but in the context of what I did with it, it felt pretty natural. As for the hair in 1990 ... This post has been edited by klasaine: Nov 14 2014, 02:41 AM -------------------- - Ken Lasaine
https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/foolin-the-clouds https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/surfin-at-the-country-hop Soundcloud assorted ... https://soundcloud.com/klasaine3 New record ... http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/kenlasaine Solo Guitar ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...5iIdO2tpgtj25Ke Stuff I'm on ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...b-dhb-4B0KgRY-d |
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