Natural Ability Or Training

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Natural Ability Or Training

Owen View Member Profile	Nov 7 2007, 05:55 AM
Nov 7 2007, 05:55 AM	GMC:er Posts: 1.461 Joined: 16-June 07 From: Scotland	Well I wanted to know your opinion on what make's a good voice, is it the time and effort put into training your voice and honing it to perfection or are some people more naturally gifted with good voices? I realise that guitar is more something you can train to perfection - like Kris says no natural talent required, but vocally you only have what you are given originally. So basically, do you think great singers are born with a natural ability or work towards good voices? Or perhaps a bit of both? You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! This post has been edited by Owen: Nov 7 2007, 06:35 AM -------------------- Don't Panic.

mattacuk View Member Profile	Nov 7 2007, 06:04 AM
Nov 7 2007, 06:04 AM	Lets go fishing! Posts: 5.526 Joined: 21-December 06 From: illinois	Well this is a really good topic Owen - I feel some people have the natual ability, and then "fine tune" it with training. Where as others have to work hard at it !! But what do i know about singing, i sound like a strangled cat! You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! -------------------- *mysql> SELECT FROM master_name WHERE ((firstname = 'Paul') AND (lastname = 'Gilbert')); "The Fundimental Difference between Paul Gilbert and Buckethead is that Paul Explores the Good side of the force, while Buckethead Explores the Dark Side of the Force" :)**

coffeeman View Member Profile	Nov 7 2007, 06:07 AM
Nov 7 2007, 06:07 AM	Experienced Tone Seeker Posts: 1.762 Joined: 15-September 07 From: Bogota,Colombia	Excellent question!!! I love to sing, but the truth is that I dont have a goog voice. So if i have not a good instrument how can I make to sing good? So lets wait until Luciana give us an answer , and maybe he will give us a litle hope. You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! -------------------- The only thing yo can do, is what you love! Visit my youtube

RobM View Member Profile	Nov 7 2007, 06:08 AM
Nov 7 2007, 06:08 AM	GMC:er Posts: 300 Joined: 19-July 07 From: noneyaa	QUOTE (Owen @ Nov 7 2007, 12:55 AM) Well I wanted to know you opinion on what make's a good voice, is it the time and effort put into training your voice and honing it to perfection or are some people more naturally gifted with good voices? I realise that guitar is more something you can train to perfection - like Kris says no natural talent required, but vocally you only have what you are given originally. So basically, do you think great singers are born with a natural ability or work towards good voices? Or perhaps a bit of both? IMHO I think the really great voices are natural and then trained to be what they are, Singers like Bruce Davidson, Paul Rogers, Freddie Mercury, Elton john are all natural and then honed to perfection. I think singers like Ozzie, David Lee Roth, James Hetfield are more perfected sounds than they are naturally gifted. They all sound good for what they do but you wouldn't expect Hetfield to sing good bye yellow brick road, just as much as you wouldn't expect Elton John to sing Enter Sandman. One side is more about the lyrics with the music playing with it and the other is more about the music with the lyrics with it. I didn't really edxplain that using the correct terms, but I think you get the idea? You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! -------------------- You wish.

Resurrection View Member Profile	Nov 7 2007, 06:33 AM
Nov 7 2007, 06:33 AM	GMC:er Posts: 202 Joined: 22-May 07	I agree with the notion that the best singers do have a natural ability that is improved by training and practice. Many good singers have sung since they were infants, with no more formal practice than simply listening and imitating the music they heard around them. That, to me, indicates some natural ability that didn't come about just by training their brains and their bodies with singing practice. Not a very scientific explanation, I know. More like a gut feeling You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! -------------------- QUOTE If you think you can, you can. And if you think you can't, you're right.

Owen View Member Profile	Nov 7 2007, 06:42 AM
Nov 7 2007, 06:42 AM	GMC:er Posts: 1.461 Joined: 16-June 07 From: Scotland	Interesting replies guys, I see this as a more divided camp than what we would be perhaps saying about guitar - "work hard and suceed". I suppose we shall have to wait and see what Luciana says, I personally think Matt's idea is probably most along the right lines. Anyways, we shall see. Does anyone know any interesting articles on this subject? You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! -------------------- Don't Panic.

Xranthoius View Member Profile	Nov 7 2007, 06:55 AM
Nov 7 2007, 06:55 AM	GMC:er Posts: 447 Joined: 21-May 07 From: Usa Illinois	QUOTE (mattacuk @ Nov 7 2007, 12:04 AM) i sound like a strangled cat! ditto! You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! --------------------

ActiveX View Member Profile	Nov 7 2007, 06:58 AM
Nov 7 2007, 06:58 AM	GMC:er Posts: 241 Joined: 7-October 07 From: Vancouver, Canada	All I know is I could practice singing all day every day, and I would still suck. Can't carry a tune to save my life. When I was in school, I got booted out of the choir because the instructor thought that I was singing badly on purpose! You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content!

JVM View Member Profile	Nov 7 2007, 07:26 AM
Nov 7 2007, 07:26 AM	Learning Roadie Posts: 2.878 Joined: 2-June 07 From: Raleigh-Durham, NC	Are you tone deaf? You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! -------------------- Gear: Fender American Deluxe Stratocaster, Gibson '67 RI Flying V, Mesa Boogie F-30 112 combo, crazy pedals.

ActiveX View Member Profile	Nov 7 2007, 07:34 AM
Nov 7 2007, 07:34 AM	GMC:er Posts: 241 Joined: 7-October 07 From: Vancouver, Canada	QUOTE (JVM @ Nov 6 2007, 10:26 PM) Are you tone deaf? That would certainly explain a lot! You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content!

Luciana Segovia View Member Profile	Nov 8 2007, 08:02 AM
Nov 8 2007, 08:02 AM	Singing Instructor Posts: 497 Joined: 2-July 07 From: Argentina	Guys... I think that I'm a perfect example. I represent the people who doesn't born with a natural talent. I sing since I have memory and my ears was training so much, and that's help me a lot.... Then I studied vocal technique and help me more. I believe in both things... people who born with a natural talent exist, and you can recognize them easily(like Freddy Mercury, Jannis Joplin or Bono ). In the other hand you have "my part"... and curiously I believe that we are a majority. I can give you a lot of examples: Dave Grohl, Joe Ramone, Madonna, Scott Weiland, David Matthews, Robert Smith, etc, etc. All these people were developed their voices with the time. Then we have an important point, and it is that many good singers don't sing their own style, so that make we think that their voices are not good, but this is not real. So!.. to have a good voice includes a combination of things... Attitude, Perseverance, Passion, and in many cases a natural talent. Thanks god for the diversity of singers or styles, don't you think? You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! This post has been edited by Luciana: Nov 8 2007, 08:10 AM -------------------- Check out my video lessons and instructor board!

Spiderusalem View Member Profile	Nov 8 2007, 08:15 AM
Nov 8 2007, 08:15 AM	GMC:er Posts: 569 Joined: 15-August 07 From: San Francisco, California	QUOTE (Luciana @ Nov 7 2007, 11:02 PM) Guys... I think that I'm a perfect example. I represent the people who doesn't born with a natural talent. I sing since I have memory and my ears was training so much, and that's help me a lot.... Then I studied vocal technique and help me more. I believe in both things... people who born with a natural talent exist, and you can recognize them easily(like Freddy Mercury, Jannis Joplin or Bono ). In the other hand you have "my part"... and curiously I believe that we are a majority. I can give you a lot of examples: Dave Grohl, Joe Ramone, Madonna, Scott Weiland, David Matthews, Robert Smith, etc, etc. All these people were developed their voices with the time. Then we have an important point, and it is that many good singers don't sing their own style, so that make we think that their voices are not good, but this is not real. So!.. to have a good voice includes a combination of things... Attitude, Perseverance, Passion, and in many cases a natural talent. Thanks god for the diversity of singers or styles, don't you think? you have no idea how encouraging your words are to me I'm a big fan of the underdog. The person that made something out of nothing to begin with. I'm sure here at GMC that makes up a lot of us, and its folks like you and words like that that give guys like me the courage to try and do what you do. ah did that make sense? You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! -------------------- Equipment: Classical/Jazz hybrid guitar. blunt/black humor. Success is the best revenge.

Luciana Segovia View Member Profile	Nov 8 2007, 08:22 AM
Nov 8 2007, 08:22 AM	Singing Instructor Posts: 497 Joined: 2-July 07 From: Argentina	QUOTE (Spiderusalem @ Nov 8 2007, 08:15 AM) you have no idea how encouraging your words are to me I'm a big fan of the underdog. The person that made something out of nothing to begin with. I'm sure here at GMC that makes up a lot of us, and its folks like you and words like that that give guys like me the courage to try and do what you do. ah did that make sense? Of course!!! That make sense!, And if it was not like that ... do not worry, the music not always makes sense!!!! sometimes it's about magic and what it make us feel... You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! This post has been edited by Luciana: Nov 8 2007, 08:24 AM -------------------- Check out my video lessons and instructor board!

AudunESP View Member Profile	Nov 11 2007, 05:17 AM
Nov 11 2007, 05:17 AM	GMC:er Posts: 153 Joined: 13-June 07	QUOTE (Luciana @ Nov 8 2007, 08:02 AM) Guys... I think that I'm a perfect example. I represent the people who doesn't born with a natural talent. I sing since I have memory and my ears was training so much, and that's help me a lot.... Then I studied vocal technique and help me more. I believe in both things... people who born with a natural talent exist, and you can recognize them easily(like Freddy Mercury, Jannis Joplin or Bono ). In the other hand you have "my part"... and curiously I believe that we are a majority. I can give you a lot of examples: Dave Grohl, Joe Ramone, Madonna, Scott Weiland, David Matthews, Robert Smith, etc, etc. All these people were developed their voices with the time. Then we have an important point, and it is that many good singers don't sing their own style, so that make we think that their voices are not good, but this is not real. So!.. to have a good voice includes a combination of things... Attitude, Perseverance, Passion, and in many cases a natural talent. Thanks god for the diversity of singers or styles, don't you think? I can't tell you how much you encouraged me Now i really have a hope of beeing a great singer. I love to sing, and i sing nearly every day. But my voice is so, hard, without softness if you know what i mean, so should i just go on singing songs that fits that kind of voice or is it hope for me to sing soft one day? A really helpfull friend of mine said iris by goo goo dolls really do fit my voice though:) You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! This post has been edited by AudunESP: Nov 11 2007, 05:23 AM -------------------- Scales = some boring stuff thats totally unnescesary to create cool music, liek, if ur stupid.

Saoirse O'Shea View Member Profile	Nov 11 2007, 08:51 AM
Nov 11 2007, 08:51 AM	Moderator - low level high stakes Posts: 6.173 Joined: 27-June 07 From: Espania - Cadiz province	Luciana (and everyone else), thank you for some great replies. My father sang as a Cathedral Choir Boy and very young I sung as a soprano before my voice broke, after which I was told 'out'. I've spent the last near 40 years or so believing that I can't sing for toffee but with Luciana's lessons and her positivism, and yours, am slowly building up courage to maybe try again. (Warning to all the cats in the neighborhood - be scared .) Thanks all. Cheeers, Tony You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! -------------------- Get your music professionally mastered by anl AES registered Mastering Engineer. Contact me for Audio Mastering Services and Advice and visit our website www.miromastering.com Be friends on facebook with us here. We use professional, mastering grade hardware in our mastering studo. Our hardware includes: Cranesong Avocet II Monitor Controller, Dangerous Music Liasion Insert Hardware Router, ATC SCM Pro Monitors, Lavry Black DA11, Prism Orpheus ADC/DAC, Gyratec Gyraf XIV Parallel Passive Mastering EQ, Great River MAQ 2NV Mastering EQ, Kush Clariphonic Parallel EQ Shelf, Maselec MLA-2 Mastering Compressor, API 2500 Mastering Compressor, Eventide Eclipse Reverb/Echo.

Spiderusalem View Member Profile	Nov 11 2007, 08:56 AM
Nov 11 2007, 08:56 AM	GMC:er Posts: 569 Joined: 15-August 07 From: San Francisco, California	QUOTE (tonymiro @ Nov 10 2007, 11:51 PM) Luciana (and everyone else), thank you for some great replies. My father sang as a Cathedral Choir Boy and very young I sung as a soprano before my voice broke, after which I was told 'out'. I've spent the last near 40 years or so believing that I can't sing for toffee but with Luciana's lessons and her positivism, and yours, am slowly building up courage to maybe try again. (Warning to all the cats in the neighborhood - be scared .) Thanks all. Cheeers, Tony +1. Thanks Luciana. You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! -------------------- Equipment: Classical/Jazz hybrid guitar. blunt/black humor. Success is the best revenge.

exorcyze View Member Profile	Nov 11 2007, 10:06 AM
Nov 11 2007, 10:06 AM	GMC:er Posts: 144 Joined: 11-July 07	I'd agree with Luciana 100% - it's a lot like guitar. Some people just have a natural gift for things - voice included. But a lot of others really have to work hard at it. One of the important things I think was kind of left out is that with singing, moreso than with guitar, it is important to find your own style and go with what works for you. If you don't have natural talent, it will be extremely difficult for you to try and replicate someone elses sound that isn't in your natural style. Not only that, but it's part of what will make you unique and stand out as an artist. The first time I heard bands like Atreyu and Lovedrug ( older stuff for both of them ) I thought their voices were a little ... odd. Didn't like them a whole lot in the beginning, but there was something about it that kept me listening anyway. There was something different and unique about it that wasn't the same old sound as everyone else. I prefer the older stuff because they had a more signature sound for the singers that worked very well - now both of them sound more homogenized ( imo ) with the vocal style. You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! -------------------- My last band : Cold Storage

Saoirse O'Shea View Member Profile	Nov 11 2007, 11:11 AM
Nov 11 2007, 11:11 AM	Moderator - low level high stakes Posts: 6.173 Joined: 27-June 07 From: Espania - Cadiz province	QUOTE (exorcyze @ Nov 11 2007, 03:06 AM) it will be extremely difficult for you to try and replicate someone elses sound that isn't in your natural style. Not only that, but it's part of what will make you unique and stand out as an artist. Question then for anyone - to what extent can a vocal harmoniser like Antares Autotune 'fill' in the gap between ability and my bumbling? That's both in terms of adding a bit of 'sparkle', if you see what I mean, and attempting the (probably) impossible of correcting my bad singing? I'm particularly interested as it seems to me that an awful lot of commercial 'hit' records have Antares or something similar processing the vocals now a days. (And you can spot them easily .) Studio wise I'm guilty, I use Melodyne and that can correct an awful lot of issues - not just with singing but instruments generally. When we talk about 'feel' (and I do agree with the idea) studio musicians however often aren't really expected to be 'individual' but to be able to play/sing technically correctly - if you see what I mean - in the pocket, on pitch, etc and pretty much homogenised. But if they can't - Antares, Melodyne fill the gap... Perhaps I'm being overly provocative but for me the question might be expanded to 'Natural ability, training, or studio processing'? Take a look at 'X Factor' - I'll bet that the winner will rely heavily on the studio . Cheers, Tony ps Apologies Luciana and all who can sing, you do have a gift and good singers are a joy to work with in the studio. You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! -------------------- Get your music professionally mastered by anl AES registered Mastering Engineer. Contact me for Audio Mastering Services and Advice and visit our website www.miromastering.com Be friends on facebook with us here. We use professional, mastering grade hardware in our mastering studo. Our hardware includes: Cranesong Avocet II Monitor Controller, Dangerous Music Liasion Insert Hardware Router, ATC SCM Pro Monitors, Lavry Black DA11, Prism Orpheus ADC/DAC, Gyratec Gyraf XIV Parallel Passive Mastering EQ, Great River MAQ 2NV Mastering EQ, Kush Clariphonic Parallel EQ Shelf, Maselec MLA-2 Mastering Compressor, API 2500 Mastering Compressor, Eventide Eclipse Reverb/Echo.

Luciana Segovia View Member Profile	Feb 26 2008, 03:07 PM
Feb 26 2008, 03:07 PM	Singing Instructor Posts: 497 Joined: 2-July 07 From: Argentina	QUOTE (AudunESP @ Nov 11 2007, 05:17 AM) I can't tell you how much you encouraged me Now i really have a hope of beeing a great singer. I love to sing, and i sing nearly every day. But my voice is so, hard, without softness if you know what i mean, so should i just go on singing songs that fits that kind of voice or is it hope for me to sing soft one day? A really helpfull friend of mine said iris by goo goo dolls really do fit my voice though:) I've been reading all my personal board and I found that i don't answered this..(sorry)... With practice, and patience you can give to your voice different sound. If you thing that your voice is too hard. try to sing soft!. think in softly and sing softly.. Use your imagination... try to imagine that you are singing to the ear to the person that you love, at night... I'm sure that you can't growl. When you are study vocal technique it's very important the imagination. the voice can reproduce that things.. extra sensations. Use that plus! You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! -------------------- Check out my video lessons and instructor board!

Luciana Segovia View Member Profile	Feb 26 2008, 03:10 PM
Feb 26 2008, 03:10 PM	Singing Instructor Posts: 497 Joined: 2-July 07 From: Argentina	QUOTE (tonymiro @ Nov 11 2007, 08:51 AM) Luciana (and everyone else), thank you for some great replies. My father sang as a Cathedral Choir Boy and very young I sung as a soprano before my voice broke, after which I was told 'out'. I've spent the last near 40 years or so believing that I can't sing for toffee but with Luciana's lessons and her positivism, and yours, am slowly building up courage to maybe try again. (Warning to all the cats in the neighborhood - be scared .) Thanks all. Cheeers, Tony Oh Tony! I'm sure that you can sing again.. if you feel it.. you can do it! You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! -------------------- Check out my video lessons and instructor board!

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