Pedal Board Issues Options

[gnarkill]

These are the pedals I have, plus a Weeping Demon, Boss Looper RC-3, Zakk Wylde OD and a crappy Joyo EQ.

I have had a sloppy pedal board for a while, and used a daisy chain power supply. I decided to up my game with an Isolated Power Supply and get the 1Spot Pro. Powers everything up, no problem.

A little back story, I have always had an issue with noise in my signal with the daisy chain, so I could never use my OD with out blowing it up with noise. One of the main reasons I went for the Isolated Power Supply.

I was rearranging my pedals yesterday, mainly because I wanted to be able to finally use my Maxon OD 808X. My signal went like this...

Guitar
Tuner
Maxon OD 808X
Peavy 6505 HM (Amp)
*Effects Loop*
Sentry Noise gate
-in Sentry loop
-Hyper Gravity Compression
-MXR 10 Band EQ
-end Sentry Loop
MXR ZW Chorus
Hall of Fame 2
Ibanez Delay
Ditto x4 Looper
Beat Buddy
*End Effects Loop*

Now... the important part for me is all about where the OD, Noise Gate, EQ and Comp are. I wanted to put the EQ and Comp before the OD, but thats noisy as hell and would require me to put a Noise Gate there too. And I need my Noise Gate IN THE EFFECTS loop to kill all the gain from the 6505. But in the current order it sounds fine.

My first question, should I just fork out the cash for a second Sentry, so I can have two Noise Gates in my chain? Something to kill the white noise of the Comp, EQ and OD before the amp, and then use my current one to kill the noise of the amp? Or would my current setup of just the OD before, and then the comp and eq be fine in the effects loop?

Secondly, this is an odd one. I am using the "notorious TS settings". Drive at all the way down, level all the way up. Now, when I turn the pedal on, I get a loud clicking or ticking noise. So my thoughts were to use a Noise Gate here, but I dont have a second one and cant move my current one, needs to be in the effects loop to kill the 6505 noise. I wondered why it was making this ticking noise, so I swapped it out with my other OD, the MXR Zakk Wylde one. The same ticking took place. I changed the ports on the Isolated Power supply, and still heard ticking with both pedals. Is there something weird with Isolated Power Supplies and OD pedals? In any case, I used a solo power supply, and all ticking went away. Any ideas or thoughts there?

3rd question... this requires a bit of explanation...

What I have now...

Guitar
OD
Amp
Effects Loop
Sentry
Comp
EQ
Everything else

What I think I want...

Guitar
Comp
EQ
OD
Amp
Effects Loop
Sentry
Everything else

Now, the what I have... sounds great to me. But I keep reading I want to put the Comp and EQ before the amp to regulate everything. But the WHAT I WANT is too noisy without a Noise Gate in the loop for the Comp, EQ and OD. Does this position of the EQ and Comp make that big of a difference? Can I live with what I have, or should I really go for another Sentry?

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This post has been edited by gnarkill: Aug 2 2017, 05:49 PM

[Mertay]

There are members here that I'm sure has better experience than me with noisegates and a bigger pedalboard, but I kept thinking if your drive pedal is actually right for you?

After trying a ts9 in time I noticed I liked more aggresive drives to boost. Something like a ds1 or OCD might give you the aggresiveness you want from the tone without needing a lot of output boost from a pedal.

I'm aware this isn't about your current problem but just a suggestion for you to try one you sort these out.

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[Rammikin]

My first question, should I just fork out the cash for a second Sentry, so I can have two Noise Gates in my chain? Something to kill the white noise of the Comp, EQ and OD before the amp, and then use my current one to kill the noise of the amp? Or would my current setup of just the OD before, and then the comp and eq be fine in the effects loop?

If I understand what you're asking, solving a problem like this is the purpose of the loop on the Sentry, right? You want the control signal from early in your chain, but the processed signal late in the chain. So, insert it near the beginning, then run the Sentry's loop to the noisy part of your chain, including your amp. That way the output from the Sentry will be late in your chain even though its input is early in the chain.

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[Todd Simpson]

What he said The Sentry is the most advanced gate I've ever tried. It's amazing. In some ways, it's almost too complex for most folks to deal with. The good news is that you can download presets for it online and and shoot them over to the pedal via the bluetooth on your phone! They are called "Tone Prints" and they are basically presets used by professionals and are quite good in general

But yeah, what Rammikin said.

Also, with all those pedals, you may want to get a pedal controller, one that lets you click on one stomp button and activate any of your pedals or all, or none. The BOSS line of controllers is top notch but starts about $400 so not cheap. You can get one with 8 fx loops on it for $500.



This would let you use all of your pedals much the same way you would use an axe fx unit. Just set up the patch and hit one foot switch to change which pedals are active and in which order they occur in real time. Very handy. Of course, JOYO makes MUCH less expensive versions of this kind of thing. Joyo makes and 8 channel for $200!!



With as many pedals as you have, protecting your investment and your tone pretty much requires a pedal switcher. Otherwise, you are doing "Pedal Ballet" every time you want to change your sound and you cant change the order of the pedals once they are plugged in which can be a severe limitation.

Of course, your other option is to sell all your pedals and go ahead and get a multi fx unit. Line 6 and BOSS make multi units that are quite good and quite cheap. Also, you could just get a used POD HD bean for about $250 and use any midi controller you like and have a huge variety of tone with simple control. I had a pod hd bean for a while and it was great for the money. not as good as my 11 rack of course, but smaller and easier to deal with really though, if you go multi I;'d say get a used 11 Rack as it's simply the best bang for your buck imho. Great software control, fx loop, and works with any midi pedal controller, and can serve as the center of your home studio as it's also a killer recording interface with XLR input! I use mine for just that purpose and go direct to my studio monitors. No amp required. They run about $300 on ebay.
The stand alone software editor is killer. You can use it while using your daw. also, it can record a completely dry guitar signal to your daw while recording an effected signal at the same time so you can go back and re amp with a plugin or whatever you want, later.



I started off with solutions for your current rig and per usual I end saying "Get an 11 rack". It's the answer for everything

Todd



[What H name='Rammikin' date='Aug 2 2017, 03:17 PM' post='750564']
If I understand what you're asking, solving a problem like this is the purpose of the loop on the Sentry, right? You want the control signal from early in your chain, but the processed signal late in the chain. So, insert it near the beginning, then run the Sentry's loop to the noisy part of your chain, including your amp. That way the output from the Sentry will be late in your chain even though its input is early in the chain.
[/quote]

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This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Aug 2 2017, 10:29 PM

[gnarkill]

@Rammikin Soooo... I have tried what you suggested. I put the Sentry behind the OD, then ran it to the amp. The effects loop came back to the Sentry, but then it made my guitar tones clean. Like... sparkly clean. Cleaner than the 6505 has ever sounded. So I donno what happened there.

@Mertay, ive tried the DS1, TS9, MXR ZW44 and the OD808X. The Maxon is my fav of the bunch.

@Todd, you may not remember this, but I feel a bit prideful here... I remember recommending to you to get the Sentry. Im glad you like it so much. Also, I know every time you recommend that I just go for the Eleven Rack... I just havent been able to do it. I plan to, I want to, but pedals are easy for me... and I feel like a badass. Haha.

Any idea with my clicking that only happens with both my overdrives? Why wont they work with the isolated power supply, but they will work with just a single one?

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[Rammikin]

@Rammikin Soooo... I have tried what you suggested. I put the Sentry behind the OD, then ran it to the amp. The effects loop came back to the Sentry, but then it made my guitar tones clean. Like... sparkly clean. Cleaner than the 6505 has ever sounded. So I donno what happened there.

It sounds like you've accidentally excluded the amp from the Sentry's loop. And the Sentry needs to go before your OD, not after. Take a moment to carefully make sure you've got it set up right, but this really is the best way to use a noise gate. Much better than using two noise gates. If you can't get it working, post a detailed diagram of your cabling so someone can help you.

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[Todd Simpson]

I had forgotten that!! Let me say GOOD CALL!!! That gate is AMAZING!!!! It was so good in fact, that a guy bought it right off my pedal board when I took my board to a local shop to try some guitars. He paid double what I did so I couldn't say no.

Pedals are wads of fun So I can see why you dig them! After going full rack, I then went back and made two new pedal boards. I"m finally down to one and the 11 rack


As for the clicking, I have to go with "WHAT RAMMIKIN SAID!" yet again. He knows his stuff

Todd

@Rammikin Soooo... I have tried what you suggested. I put the Sentry behind the OD, then ran it to the amp. The effects loop came back to the Sentry, but then it made my guitar tones clean. Like... sparkly clean. Cleaner than the 6505 has ever sounded. So I donno what happened there.

@Mertay, ive tried the DS1, TS9, MXR ZW44 and the OD808X. The Maxon is my fav of the bunch.

@Todd, you may not remember this, but I feel a bit prideful here... I remember recommending to you to get the Sentry. Im glad you like it so much. Also, I know every time you recommend that I just go for the Eleven Rack... I just havent been able to do it. I plan to, I want to, but pedals are easy for me... and I feel like a badass. Haha.

Any idea with my clicking that only happens with both my overdrives? Why wont they work with the isolated power supply, but they will work with just a single one?

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This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Aug 3 2017, 04:17 AM

[Darius Wave]

I've quited using pedals few years back but I ain't gonna convince anyone to do so. Instead I will just try to make you consider a solution, that I think is best - Programable footcontroller/crossover. G-lab makes one...GSC4 as I suppose. What's the purpose?

1. It has some buffor to compensate singal loss caused by cables length
2. You can plug all your pedals into it and program which ones are turned on at aprticular program number - for example switching to od channel, boosting volume and adding delay for solo...all with stomp on the switch. Now the most important is that it turns unsed devices out of the chain so they do not generate signal loss while they are not in use.

When I was a "pedalboard man" I remember having some problems with not only noise but frequency range loss, that affects my amp dynamics response. I did everything that's possible - from additional shielding, to separatedf power supplies, double-shielded chords and pro range pedals. Of course with each tweak it sounded better with less noise but it was still nto comparable to guitar straight in the amp.

These days I avoid unnecessary effects and those that must be there, are connected with a very short cables near the amp and they are being turned on/off buy a crossover I've mentioned. So generally all the cables I use in my rack are shorter than probably one of your cables between guitar and pedalboard.

If you oferate with pedals in front of amp and some pedals in fxloop...you have tones of cables going in and out to/from your amp. It will never stay without any signal loss....that's the reason I quit it.

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[Todd Simpson]

I mentioned the same thing about pedal controllers in my post just a few lines up A pedal controller is a great way to go if you are gonna be a "Pedal Guy". You can save "scenes" and re order the pedals at will, then call it all up by just one foot press instead of doing the "Pedal Dance" when you want a new sound

Also, good point on the loss of frequency range. Matter of fact, some folks use a tube screamer to "tighten" up a high gain amp partially because it acts as a "High Pass Filter" and trims out some of the bass frequencies that lead to muddy tone. Pedals are designed to work within a limited frequency spectrum, so they are gonna trim out some of your range by design.

Also, the noise issue is common to pedal owners. Whether it's an impedance mismatch, or something with the power supply, it always seems there is some issue to solve and this gets sticky when playing live sometimes. Using a power filter in your signal chain can help, if you are a pedal board guy, you can mount one on your pedal board and mount pedals on top of it.

Todd

I've quited using pedals few years back but I ain't gonna convince anyone to do so. Instead I will just try to make you consider a solution, that I think is best - Programable footcontroller/crossover. G-lab makes one...GSC4 as I suppose. What's the purpose?

1. It has some buffor to compensate singal loss caused by cables length
2. You can plug all your pedals into it and program which ones are turned on at aprticular program number - for example switching to od channel, boosting volume and adding delay for solo...all with stomp on the switch. Now the most important is that it turns unsed devices out of the chain so they do not generate signal loss while they are not in use.

When I was a "pedalboard man" I remember having some problems with not only noise but frequency range loss, that affects my amp dynamics response. I did everything that's possible - from additional shielding, to separatedf power supplies, double-shielded chords and pro range pedals. Of course with each tweak it sounded better with less noise but it was still nto comparable to guitar straight in the amp.

These days I avoid unnecessary effects and those that must be there, are connected with a very short cables near the amp and they are being turned on/off buy a crossover I've mentioned. So generally all the cables I use in my rack are shorter than probably one of your cables between guitar and pedalboard.

If you oferate with pedals in front of amp and some pedals in fxloop...you have tones of cables going in and out to/from your amp. It will never stay without any signal loss....that's the reason I quit it.

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