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Posted by: Barenaked Ninja Jan 2 2009, 07:51 AM

So back in September (after over 7 years of being self-taught) I went to the local music store and signed up for lessons. I needed (and to some degree still need) to rekindle that fire I had for playing like when I first started.

I was pretty excited after my first lesson because my instructor is a great player and I was sure I was on to something with these lessons. Now, however, while I still believe I'm getting something out them I'm thinking about quitting because I don't think I'm getting enough out of them to warrant the $20 per weekly half-hour lesson. After all that's nearly 3 months of GMC tuition!

My major beef is that I'm not being taught any theory. My instructor doesn't know much as he himself is self-taught. He doesn't do tabs either because he's been playing since long before tabs were invented so anything he shows me how to play I have to watch his fingers (and use my ears) and try to play myself. I'm getting better at this, but sometimes, when I'm struggling to follow along, I feel like I'm playing a sadistic game of Simon!



And that's pretty much how our practices go each week. I don't get a homework assignment or a "I want you to work on this for next week". Just a wicked game of Simon!

In fact, after organizing my thoughts about the matter in this post, I think I'm done with this guy. He's always running 15 minutes late so I stand out in the hall while all the other instructors let their students in. I think the main thing I've learned is that just because you're a good player, you're not necessarily a good instructor.

Anyone have similar experiences?

Posted by: audiopaal Jan 2 2009, 08:18 AM

QUOTE (Barenaked Ninja @ Jan 2 2009, 07:51 AM)

So back in September (after over 7 years of being self-taught) I went to the local music store and signed up for lessons. I needed (and to some degree still need) to rekindle that fire I had for playing like when I first started.

I was pretty excited after my first lesson because my instructor is a great player and I was sure I was on to something with these lessons. Now, however, while I still believe I'm getting something out them I'm thinking about quitting because I don't think I'm getting enough out of them to warrant the $20 per weekly half-hour lesson. After all that's nearly 3 months of GMC tuition!

My major beef is that I'm not being taught any theory. My instructor doesn't know much as he himself is self-taught. He doesn't do tabs either because he's been playing since long before tabs were invented so anything he shows me how to play I have to watch his fingers (and use my ears) and try to play myself. I'm getting better at this, but sometimes, when I'm struggling to follow along, I feel like I'm playing a sadistic game of Simon!



And that's pretty much how our practices go each week. I don't get a homework assignment or a "I want you to work on this for next week". Just a wicked game of Simon!

In fact, after organizing my thoughts about the matter in this post, I think I'm done with this guy. He's always running 15 minutes late so I stand out in the hall while all the other instructors let their students in. I think the main thing I've learned is that just because you're a good player, you're not necessarily a good instructor.

Anyone have similar experiences?

Posted by: playaxeman Jan 2 2009, 08:31 AM

He Barenaked ninja,

I would quit if it doesn't satisfy you.

I wanted to have lesson myself so i looked at the yellow pages. The teacher had a conservatorium degree. And teaches a lot of style. But there was a queue of 1/2 year waiting.

So i googled "guitarlesson on-line" didn't know what to expect, but i was amazed.

I realized that these lesson on the www and especially GMC where of great value:

1) You can enter at any time and place you like: a teacher goes on holiday or can be sick: no lesson;
2) There are video's that you can recall any time you like;
3) There are backing tracks;
4) And there are tab's
5) All kinds of music styles and even theory lesson
6) There is a form and wiki

So for me this are thing a local teacher can't give you. And i am 100% satified by this GMC site.
I think i will have more progression than i would have with a local teacher.

Posted by: Velvet Roger Jan 2 2009, 09:12 AM

What you describe is definitely what should be expected from a guitar teacher and I would indeed quit if I was you.

I am also taking lessons from a guitar teacher, which are for me very useful as it keeps me on a certain track towards becoming an allround musician (often by doing 'simple aspects' of playing, some chords or whatever, which at the moment I have to learn it, I always think why the hell is he teaching me this simple stuff, but 2 months down the line I am always grateful that he did). But he is giving me some homework, supplying me with some materials etc.

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 2 2009, 10:43 AM

Barenaked Ninja - you should quit lessons

Try to look for teacher who is great in theory and organized with assignments. Most teachers will even give you first trial lesson if you are worried - just talk to them about it.

Its up to you how fast or slow you want your lessons to progress. I am confident you can find teacher real soon and easy.

GMC for 9$ a month is a steal definitely. We can help you out with theory and harmony for sure , and I believe with other things as well - just ask on forums like everybody does.

Posted by: HAMWAGON Jan 2 2009, 11:34 AM

Yeah i would have to agree with alot of the other people here that if those sorts of Things are happening that you should think about quiting. I don't see why he couldn't do Tabs for you since their straight forward But have a think about it all and wether you want to quit Especially if he turns up late too a 30 minute lesson Which i know isnt that long and its $20 for each!

Posted by: wrk Jan 2 2009, 12:04 PM

Just to learn some licks from him, even if there are good, is maybe a bit less what you get in return for your money. On the other side it is depending on what you expect from these lessons. You can find all kind of lessons or informations about theory online now, but i think a real person teacher is necessary from time to time to keep an eye on your technic and to correct bad habits. Motivation can be a point as well.

I think there is nothing wrong with it to change teacher sometimes and learn from each where you think he is good at.
Years back i had a teacher and he was an awesome blues player, but he couldn't explain what he is doing. To have had him for a while in front of me and play with me was somehow helpful.

Posted by: Ivan Milenkovic Jan 2 2009, 05:01 PM

I'm with everyone else here mate, that guy is definitely not a very good teacher, based on what you have told us about your sessions. I don't have anything personally against the guy of course, he may be a great player, but being a good teacher requires extra (non-playing) skills, and not every guitar player can do it. Being late at the session more than 3 times is enough reason to release him from that duty I guess, not to mention that he doesn't learn you theory!

The whole point - You should definitely quit and just use GMC. Here you have 63 instructors, some of us are here over the whole day, every day, and you can always get the help you need - and for 30$ for 3 months!! Come oooon!

Posted by: jdriver Jan 2 2009, 08:23 PM

Definitely try another teacher. A good one will quickly pinpoint what you know and what you don't know, and take it from there. I have an irregular schedule so I have to make the most of my sessions, and my teacher is very accomodating to when I can come. He always gives me homework enough to last until next time.

It's very much to your advantage to interview other teachers, or ask around about who's a good one. I found mine on Craigslist.

Posted by: chetta2323 Jan 2 2009, 08:48 PM

my first teacher was a bad teacher he hardly even taught me. he kept on going out for smokes during the lesson. I just teach myself now

Posted by: Fsgdjv Jan 2 2009, 10:02 PM

That sounds like a bad teacher. You should quit and find another one. GMC is good, but after over one year from GMC I can honestly say that one or two lessons with mu teacher is worth more than all this time here. It has nothing to do with GMC being bad, but nothing comes close to a good real life teacher. The only problem with that is that really good teachers are incredibly rare and untill you find one of those, GMC is the best option. Even when you have one, GMC is good, but I don't think you should decide that you don't need real lessons just because you have GMC.

Posted by: Gerardo Siere Jan 3 2009, 01:41 AM

Search for another teacher that suits your need, it may be more expensive but teachers in real life are (or should be) better than vids.

Posted by: enforcer Jan 3 2009, 01:52 AM

IMO quit it, the man is a showman not a teacher...

Posted by: Fran Jan 3 2009, 02:07 AM

Since I found GMC I don't feel the need for a teacher anymore... I mean I know there's SO much I can learn on my own that I actually don't have enough time, neither do I feel I've hit a "wall" where I'd need an actual teacher in the same room to help me develop my playing.

Having said that, if I ever feel like attending real life classes, I will, but I just don't feel the need at all

Posted by: Zephyr Jan 3 2009, 02:39 AM

QUOTE (Barenaked Ninja @ Jan 1 2009, 10:51 PM)

Posted by: FrankW Jan 3 2009, 02:59 AM

It sounds like you have a teacher who is not prepared to teach. If he can't at least tab out lessons for you, I'd go elsewhere. I don't agree with some of the posts however, that a personal teacher is not necessary. In fact, it is the best way to learn.

A one on one relationship with a good teacher affords the student a critique of his playing, along with the proper suggestions and techniques that particular student needs to advance as a player, in real time.

My students have all the internet access we all do, but value my personal input over any other teaching method, because I am coaching them based on their particular playing level and musical knowledge. There's always a question to be answered, or a suggestion to be made on the spot. That's what they are paying for.

I can sit there and dazzle them with my playing, (they're all mostly beginners, so that's pretty easy), but they're paying me to tutor them and give them homework, and evaluate their progress the following week. They don't always like it, but they appreciate it in the long run.

GMC is a great learning tool and guitar community, but if you can find a good guitar teacher and can afford one, get one. Everything else is just augmentation.

Posted by: Canis Jan 3 2009, 03:40 AM

It depends awfully lot on the teacher.. If he/she has that "spark" that makes you wanna teach, you're doing the right thing ^^

If however, you feel like you're wasting your time, quit ^^

I've been asked several times by friends if I should take some lessons once a week, but my standard response is: "No thanks. I pay the same amount of money, and have a 24/7 open guitar-academy with hundreds of musicians to interact with"
But I know that this particular teacher is dull, though... If there was another one in this town as enthusiastic as Kris, for example, I'd take lessons with him

Posted by: Barenaked Ninja Jan 3 2009, 05:22 AM

QUOTE (Zephyr @ Jan 2 2009, 08:39 PM)

Really? He was playing guitar in the 14th century? Maybe it's just that his methods are outdated, then...

Posted by: Daniel Robinson Jan 4 2009, 05:57 AM

If you can find a teacher that is very versatile i would say try it.

For me though i find that live lessons, even including the few students i have IRL that they are getting one dimesional feedback. I.E. i am making micro-clones of myself.

I am not saying that having live lessons is bad, I myself had live lessons when i was younger. By someone semi-famous (Paul Chapman- from U.F.O.) but by the same token i didnt feel like i was progressing as fast i could be because of the limitations of the instructor. So what i started doing was learning on my own from other guitarists that i associated. Every gig i played i would hook up with guitarists from other bands for an hour or two and trade licks. I felt i got alot more out of that then paying some guy to teach me how to play like they play.


Daniel

Posted by: Vaialation1232 Jan 4 2009, 09:28 AM

I think that having an IRL guitar teacher is great when you are just starting because (in most cases) that person will try to stop you from getting bad habits...this will help in the long run...also the personal feedback and set lesson times may help you set deadlines and work hard to practice...however, like you said some teachers are unmotivated and can't teach...

i think that websites like this one (especially since instructors respond so quickly and often) make paying for a personal IRL instructor unnecessary for people who are in the more intermediate and up areas (because the amount i paid for this is = to 1 30 minute lesson...it doesn't matter how good of a teacher they are, that just doesn't add up)

Posted by: Sondre Jan 4 2009, 12:43 PM

I had a guitar teacher when I started out, and it helped me alot, especially because I was forced to learn new stuff all the time. Now I just play what I want most of the time.

Posted by: Scott Gentzen Jan 4 2009, 08:11 PM

It's been said a lot in the thread but I'll have to chime in too with saying that if you're not getting what you're looking for from this teacher, don't keep going. He might be a bad instructor...or it could be that he's just not right for you. You have different goals for your playing, obviously, and if you're not interested in learning how he does what he does, than there's no reason to spend good money to waste both of your time.

I've been on GMC since Jan 07, which was about a month after I first got a guitar. This past summer, I got my first IRL lessons from a local Berklee student that was home on summer break. We did a lot of theory work and learning the fretboard and stuff like that. Mostly technique related...not much really musical, but worked a little on some song riffs here and there.

In November I started having lessons with a guy on the opposite end of the scale. Older. Mostly self-taught. Keeps telling me I'm thinking too much b/c it's just rock and roll. He's got me thinking more about the feel of what I'm trying to do rather than just technique through it, which is something I need right now...being more interested in whether something sounds good and less interested in whether it was played "right" or not.

I'm finding while I get a lot out of the lessons here at GMC, sometimes I get stuck. It's more motivating when I have to stand up in front of someone and maybe tell them that I didn't spend the time to figure out my homework for the week. It's also helpful for me to have someone watch me play something I'm having trouble with, stop me and point out right where my problem is.

Posted by: David Wallimann Jan 4 2009, 08:56 PM

My advice to you would be to keep working on GMC on your own as much as you can, and every once and a while schedule an hour one on one lesson with a good teacher who can answer your questions.

I recommend that you prepare a series of questions to ask your teacher.
Whether it's theory or technique related, go to your lessons with some questions you need answered. Discuss with him prior to your lesson and tell him your expectations. He should be able to tell you if he is apt to help you or not.

Those answers should make your progress and also lead you to new questions. If your teacher cannot answer your questions, find another one.

Good luck!

Posted by: Barenaked Ninja Jan 14 2009, 05:18 AM

So I let him know yesterday that I was done taking lessons for a while. He was cool with it and gave me his contact info and let me know where his studio was in case I ever needed a "one-off" lesson or anything.

I enjoyed his lessons to some degree, but like I pointed out in my first post the cons outweighed the pros.

Posted by: mattacuk Jan 14 2009, 09:45 AM

I had a live teacher for for my first year (which is also when i signed up here). I found he we pretty useless to be honest and I ended up teaching him stuff id learnt here which isnt right

Sadly for me there are no guitar teachers like Muris where i live, its just sheep and cows (and they cant play before you ask). So i soak up everything i can from the net, dvds and books and magazines. There is more than enough there to keep me going

Posted by: David Wallimann Jan 14 2009, 01:22 PM

There can be only one Muris, that's true.. And we have him! Haha!

QUOTE (mattacuk @ Jan 14 2009, 03:45 AM)

I had a live teacher for for my first year (which is also when i signed up here). I found he we pretty useless to be honest and I ended up teaching him stuff id learnt here which isnt right

Sadly for me there are no guitar teachers like Muris where i live, its just sheep and cows (and they cant play before you ask). So i soak up everything i can from the net, dvds and books and magazines. There is more than enough there to keep me going

Posted by: Muris Varajic Jan 14 2009, 03:08 PM

Giving tabs for each class isn't the must imo
but teaching theory IS!!

I do teach a lot in private but seems like theory is my prime topic,
whatever I play I spend like 20mins to explain its theory part,
which is crucial, to know what are you playing.

Posted by: Fran Jan 14 2009, 03:41 PM

What I wouldn't give to have some GMC instructors living next door! Well actually one would be enough
Good guitar teachers are hard to find, no doubt.

Posted by: grathan Jan 14 2009, 07:03 PM

I recently tried lessons as well, but was unimpressed.


I hate the back to back lessons. The eight year old girl with her mom before me would run over by 8 minutes and of course there would be someone waiting at the end of mine which would end on time.

Then the instructor would make me tune to his guitar for 5 minutes.

Then he would ask me what we studied last week. Which would be alright if he was checking if I remembered, but in fact he had no clue.

He kept telling me to bring in mp3s of music I wanted to learn how to play. Each week I told him I can buy sheet music if I wanted to learn someone else's songs.

Posted by: opeth.db Jan 14 2009, 07:57 PM

Dude.

All you need is GMC, the willingness to learn and the motivation to practice.

Posted by: Canis Jan 14 2009, 08:22 PM

QUOTE (opeth.db @ Jan 14 2009, 07:57 PM)

Posted by: Vasilije Vukmirovic Jan 15 2009, 01:33 AM

Yeah, I can relate to that, you just feel that he doesn't respect your time for which you have paid. Being a decent teacher has nothing to do with being amazing guitarist, that's my opinion. I took 7 lessons back in the 2000 where I begun to play guitar(1 year of experience). My teacher was older guy, like..very experienced musician, and I expected a lot. I mean, lots of material, but I got something little different. Each time we did just one song, just one. Chords+melody. First song was "blue bossa" and for one hour we just played that, even when I nailed it, we just keep repeating it, I played chords and my teacher was jamming, I was like..."I am paying, he's playing". And you cannot tell your teacher how to teach you, you don't know it your self, you can't say "Hey, stop messing around and give me some real lessons!".
Now, I think that he was right, you really need to do it slow, small amount of material, it isn't about quantity, really, it's about understanding and practicing at home. For that 7 lessons, I learned 3-4 jazz standards, learned basic jazz chords, and that's was it. But in that 4 jazz standards was lot more that I can expect. Chord shapes, tournarounds, passing tones...
So, what I want to say is, we need to be careful when we suspect at teacher's method, we can't really know, can we?