Modes |
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Modes |
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Sep 19 2020, 12:38 AM |
Hi mate! I don't understand exactly your questions, but let's talk about this so I can guide you with modes.
There are many approaches and uses for modes, but let's start with the basics. If you are playing over a Bm 7 vamp, you can play these 3 modes: - B Dorian - B Phrygian - B Aeolian You can also play B harmonic minor, and B melodic minor. Let me know if this is clear. -------------------- My lessons
Do you need a Guitar Plan? Join Gab's Army Check my band:Cirse Check my soundcloud:Soundcloud Please subscribe to my:Youtube Channel |
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Sep 19 2020, 04:58 PM |
Just to be clear, C ionian, E phrygian and F lydian all contain the same notes. The notes of the C major scale. That's not modal playing per se. You're just playing in the key of C major.
An example of "modal" playing within that particular chord progression would be if you chose to use C lydian over the I chord, E Dorian or Aeolian over the iii chord and F Ionian or mixolydian on the IV chord. This post has been edited by klasaine: Sep 20 2020, 04:38 PM -------------------- - Ken Lasaine
https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/foolin-the-clouds https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/surfin-at-the-country-hop Soundcloud assorted ... https://soundcloud.com/klasaine3 New record ... http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/kenlasaine Solo Guitar ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...5iIdO2tpgtj25Ke Stuff I'm on ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...b-dhb-4B0KgRY-d |
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Sep 19 2020, 05:41 PM |
i played these three modes over the backing, i see how they sound differnt, and good. so any minor chord can use any minor mode, excpet for locrian? After i played over the Bm 7 vamp, i played over a Amajor vamp using A ionian, A Lydian, and A Mixolydian. to my ears A ionian and A Lydian sounds good, mixolydian didnt sound to bad but the flatted 7 was wierd. yea im a bit confused on the modes, i have the shapes down but confused on how to apply them. i thought that if your in a key, say c major and the progression is I-iii-IV you would use C Ionian on I, E phrygian on iii, and F Lydian on IV. i see you can do that, but you also pointed out that the minor quality modes can be used over any minor chord, i didn't realize that until i jammed over the one chord vamp using three different modes. hope im still not being confusing, cause i think im confusing myself, maybe overthinking it Mixolydian doesn't sound good over Maj7 chords, it should be played over Dominant chords. Modes can be confusing. I think that the main problem is that we want to understand everything by once. The modes have many applications and ways to be approached. I think that the first goal should be to be able to hear the "color" of each mode when playing over 1 chord. Guthrie's approach to this first "goal" is great. -------------------- My lessons
Do you need a Guitar Plan? Join Gab's Army Check my band:Cirse Check my soundcloud:Soundcloud Please subscribe to my:Youtube Channel |
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Sep 20 2020, 04:50 PM |
+1 to what Kris just mentioned. Hear the "sound" of each mode.
Record or loop a single note drone - A for example. Solo over that drone using the various modes all starting from the same root tone. A ionian - A B C# D E F# G# A A dorian - A B C D E F# G A A phrygian - A Bb C D E F G A A lydian - A B C# D# E F# G# A Etc. -------------------- - Ken Lasaine
https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/foolin-the-clouds https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/surfin-at-the-country-hop Soundcloud assorted ... https://soundcloud.com/klasaine3 New record ... http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/kenlasaine Solo Guitar ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...5iIdO2tpgtj25Ke Stuff I'm on ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...b-dhb-4B0KgRY-d |
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Sep 20 2020, 08:17 PM |
+1 to what Kris just mentioned. Hear the "sound" of each mode. Record or loop a single note drone - A for example. Solo over that drone using the various modes all starting from the same root tone. A ionian - A B C# D E F# G# A A dorian - A B C D E F# G A A phrygian - A Bb C D E F G A A lydian - A B C# D# E F# G# A Etc. Exactly! This is a very powerful exercise. -------------------- My lessons
Do you need a Guitar Plan? Join Gab's Army Check my band:Cirse Check my soundcloud:Soundcloud Please subscribe to my:Youtube Channel |
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Sep 21 2020, 02:00 PM |
thank you everyone, this thread cleared up alot. i played with the modes today, using the same chord for different modes, i can hear how distinct each mode can be. gabe i liked the video with guthrie govan and his explanation on soloing and using the notes, how he says each note is special, im on your modern rock ballad lick lesson now and from what he is saying in his video is important to playing a solo like your lesson. thanks guys. Nice to know that modes are now getting clear! Enjoy my new lesson and please keep us updated on your progress so we can continue guiding and giving feedback. -------------------- My lessons
Do you need a Guitar Plan? Join Gab's Army Check my band:Cirse Check my soundcloud:Soundcloud Please subscribe to my:Youtube Channel |
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Sep 28 2020, 09:11 PM |
I think one of the biggest problems with modes is people teach the modal scales but rarely go into accompaniment side of modal playing.
I remember trying to use the modes with normal pop rock progressions which are mainly diatonic I / V / VI / IV type things and it doesn't really happen because it isn't 'modal' It's only when I looked at Flying a blue dream and the chord progression I understood why Lydian works. -------------------- My SoundCloud
Gear Tyler Burning Water 2K Burny RLG90 with BK Emeralds Fender US Tele with BK Piledrivers Epiphone 335 with Suhr Thornbuckers PRS SE Custom 24-08 Ax8 Fessenden SD10 PSG Quilter TT15 |
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Sep 28 2020, 09:45 PM |
+1 to what Kris just mentioned. Hear the "sound" of each mode. Record or loop a single note drone - A for example. Solo over that drone using the various modes all starting from the same root tone. A ionian - A B C# D E F# G# A A dorian - A B C D E F# G A A phrygian - A Bb C D E F G A A lydian - A B C# D# E F# G# A Etc. I'm not going to look at modes for a long time but I've always found the concept interesting and confusing. This method seems an easier way to remember them, maybe remembering the intervals of each mode would be even easier than remembering the notes of each mode. Maybe I'm easy off the mark -------------------- SEE MY GMC CERTIFICATE “Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in instalments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.” Israelmore Ayivor |
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Sep 29 2020, 08:28 AM |
There are a lot of ways to skin the modal cat. Pick whatever seems to work for you. Don't be afraid of them. They're just scales with fancy names. Each one has a 'flavor'. All good improvisors employ a modal approach to some extent in their playing - even if they don't know what to call it. And they tend to favor certain flavors. This goes for rock, jazz, flamenco, etc.
-------------------- - Ken Lasaine
https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/foolin-the-clouds https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/surfin-at-the-country-hop Soundcloud assorted ... https://soundcloud.com/klasaine3 New record ... http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/kenlasaine Solo Guitar ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...5iIdO2tpgtj25Ke Stuff I'm on ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...b-dhb-4B0KgRY-d |
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Sep 29 2020, 09:46 AM |
The other thing is remembering which key each mode is in if you remember the modes with, let's say, A as the root as in your example. I do seem to have a mental block with theory so maybe I find it more difficult than most.
Maybe I'm creating that block myself, mentally. Cheers -------------------- SEE MY GMC CERTIFICATE “Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in instalments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.” Israelmore Ayivor |
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Sep 29 2020, 10:34 AM |
The other thing is remembering which key each mode is in if you remember the modes with, let's say, A as the root as in your example. I do seem to have a mental block with theory so maybe I find it more difficult than most. Maybe I'm creating that block myself, mentally. Cheers For me it's just remembering the order of the 7 modes. I mean, they always come in the same order - Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian, Locrian. Say A is the root in any of the modes - I throw A phrygian at you, the following mode will be Bb lydian and so on. F aeolian? Previous one is Eb mixolydian, following one G locrian. Maybe I'm not getting your "question" correctly here though. Here's another take at it: If we take A phrygian, which would be the "third" mode. Work our way backwards - we have G dorian and F ionian. We could consider F major the key of the song. I have however seen people notate it differently throughout my years of playing - some tab books indicate that we are in A phrygian by writing it in the start of the song. I do think learning the intervals in the modes is beneficial too - and knowing them in relation to the relative major key: Ionian: 1-2-3-4-5-6-7 Dorian: 1-2-b3-4-5-6-b7 Phrygian: 1-b2-b3-4-5-b6-b7 ...and so on This gave me more of an understand why C ionian (C D E F G A sounded different to E phrygian (E F G A B C D). Though of course you gotta remember that if the chord progression underneath is playing an ionian sounding progression, then your phrygian phrases will not sound that phrygian. It gets a bit long and winding now, I suppose. A found Frank Gambale's "Modes no More Mystery" interesting: https://vimeo.com/322763149 This post has been edited by Caelumamittendum: Sep 29 2020, 10:35 AM |
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Sep 29 2020, 02:31 PM |
Don't be afraid of them. They're just scales with fancy names. hahaha love this quote. Wise comment!! -------------------- My lessons
Do you need a Guitar Plan? Join Gab's Army Check my band:Cirse Check my soundcloud:Soundcloud Please subscribe to my:Youtube Channel |
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Sep 29 2020, 04:09 PM |
Just found this video. Not watched it all yet though:
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Sep 29 2020, 07:57 PM |
This gave me more of an understand why C ionian (C D E F G A sounded different to E phrygian (E F G A B C D). Though of course you gotta remember that if the chord progression underneath is playing an ionian sounding progression, then your phrygian phrases will not sound that phrygian. Thanks Ben, I watched 10 minutes, Gambale talks as though it is easy, which it probably is to him but, to me, it's like quantum physics Maybe one day I'll look into it, for now, I'll stick to basic stuff i think Cheers -------------------- SEE MY GMC CERTIFICATE “Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in instalments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.” Israelmore Ayivor |
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