Video Of Pick Holding Truths Vs Myths!, . |
|
|
|
|
Jun 1 2007, 03:24 AM
|
|
QUOTE (michael schenker @ May 31 2007, 02:37 PM)  Clearly, with something so fundamentally important as how to hold a pick[i], there should be a accurate, precise, clear and well explained video instructional segment that covers and provides intensily detailed steps of: how to hold one, at what angle, starting with an open, empty hand, how far it sticks out, etc, etc. Thank you, regards, russell/schenker ... and the problem with that is when you start a thread syaing that, you'll get as many opinions as there are answers in the thread  Its a personal thing, and it comes down to what works for you. What IS valuable though, is looking at the way that others do it and trying out variations for yourself until you find what works. I changed my 20-year picking habits just recently based on a similar thread and couldn't be happier, but I learnt at the same time that everyone is different and its worth trying out the variations for yourself, there is not right way that works for everyone. -------------------- Check out my Instructor profile
Live long and prosper ... My Stuff: Electric Guitars : Ibanez Jem7v, Line6 Variax 700, Fender Plus Strat with 57/62 Pickups, Line6 Variax 705 Bass Acoustic Guitars : Taylor 816ce, Martin D-15, Line6 Variax Acoustic 300 Nylon Effects : Line6 Helix, Keeley Modded Boss DS1, Keeley Modded Boss BD2, Keeley 4 knob compressor, Keeley OxBlood Amps : Epiphone Valve Jnr & Head, Cockburn A.C.1, Cockburn A.C.2, Blackstar Club 50 Head & 4x12 Cab |
 |
 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 1 2007, 04:45 AM
|
|
WELL THEN SHIFT AWAY DUDE
-------------------- “Obey the principles without being bound by them.”
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 1 2007, 01:17 PM
|
|
Sure - before I came to GMC I used to hold the pick with my first 2 fingers and thumb, the pick point would be an extension of my fingers, but still coming out of the side of my thumb (try it with a pick if that doesn;t make sense).
I played like that for 20 years, and it took everything I threw at it - acoustic & electric strumming, reasonably fast (but not lightening) legato, which was the mainstay of my soloing style. At this time I was using very thin picks as well. Soon after I joined GMC and started practicing speed picking, it didn't feel right, so I got thicker picks (I now use 1.14 instead of 0.46) and changed my picking style to the standard one finger + thumb, pick comes out of the side of your thumb, finger is paralell to the thumb. For me this took a very slight amount of getting used to (really a week or so) and the benefits for me have been huge. First, I get a lot better control over my speed runs - looking at the mechanics of what I do now vs then, now, picking is a wrist action, up and down, before, it was more of a rotation, which for me was more limiting and awkward. Second, I can do pinch harmonics like crazy - I play in exactly the same position all the time, and whenever I want a PH I just dig in fractionally further to brush the string - I don;t need to change my pick grip or anything, its always there ready to go. I also found that PHs were easier with my heavier picks, no idea why. I would say that the only real drawback I find with this would be for strumming chords, it doesn;t work too well for that, and I would probably use my old pick position for doing that - it has more give meaning you can brush the strings rather than dig into them. Another thing that seems to vary tremendously is what you do with the rest of your hand. I make a loose fist (which is fine as long as it IS loose). Some people open their fingers and keep them flat over the strings (a must if you want to do hybrid picking - something I mean to master but haven't really tried yet - should be easy for me as I have played finger style for 30 years). Kris uses an open hand, Pavel tends to alternate between a closed fist and an open hand. The last possibility is whether or not you use your pinky to anchor you to the scratch plate. Kris does this, Pavel does not, so I think its safe to say that that part of it at least IS a matter of preference. As I said in my first post, this is my perspective, its what works for me, if it helps you to do something similar then that's cool, if you think its all wrong, then you are probably right from your perspective  QUOTE idon't agree that whatever is comfortable is what one should do. things don't work like that often times. for example, you never should wrap your thumb around the neck. i am certain of that. but people get into that habit, because it is comfortable to them. And finally a word on this - you are correct, but there are a couple of specific exceptions: 1. Playing chords and using your thumb to bar the E string - can be extremely effective for playing open string chords up the neck. 2. To get an aggresive vibrato while bending a string upwards you need to move your thumb up there for leverage. This post has been edited by Andrew Cockburn: Jun 1 2007, 01:18 PM -------------------- Check out my Instructor profile
Live long and prosper ... My Stuff: Electric Guitars : Ibanez Jem7v, Line6 Variax 700, Fender Plus Strat with 57/62 Pickups, Line6 Variax 705 Bass Acoustic Guitars : Taylor 816ce, Martin D-15, Line6 Variax Acoustic 300 Nylon Effects : Line6 Helix, Keeley Modded Boss DS1, Keeley Modded Boss BD2, Keeley 4 knob compressor, Keeley OxBlood Amps : Epiphone Valve Jnr & Head, Cockburn A.C.1, Cockburn A.C.2, Blackstar Club 50 Head & 4x12 Cab |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 1 2007, 02:52 PM
|
|
I guess I'm the one being refered to as number two.... after posting that picture.
I'm using #2 for everything. Pinch harmonichs are way easy, fast picking and also strumming. I don't know how to explain it but for strumming I loosen then grip with my thumb around he pick, the pick itself stays where it's at. But losening (upwards so to say)with the thumb displays an extra 2 mm of pick and it's way easier to make chords. Then for the picking stuff I tighten the grip again and the pick is hidded again showing only a tiny tip. Don't know if that explanation is worth anything.... It's difficult to explain. I wasn't aware myself but I read #2 was good for speed picking but not for strumming and I thought - Hey, I use it all the time. I picked up a guitar and played some and noticed I change a tiny bit while playing different things. I wasn't even aware myself until now. So what can I say, #2 works for everything for ME, just a tiny change of thumb tension needed. That's done in an instant so there's no time loss while playing. The grip around the pick though, always stay the same. This post has been edited by MickeM: Jun 1 2007, 02:54 PM -------------------- My bands homepage
All time favourites: B. Streisand - Woman in Love, M. Hopkin - Those were the days, L. Richie - Hello |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 1 2007, 10:17 PM
|
|
QUOTE (fkalich @ Jun 1 2007, 05:08 PM) Super answer Andrew. I was curious, figured you did the same as i did when i played (as a kid), used two fingers. You answer is very informative, the type of answer that is helpful, even if i don't have the exact same perspective, which is to be expected. I find myself holding it as you say quite bit, but sometimes I hold it the other way, more the flat of the finger than the side, and pointing down at about 5 O'Clock (as in picture #1). I am not sure how this will end up. Let me make three points.... 1) I understand the thumbing the bass note, that is the allowing exception in my view. BB King called that "easy money" as i remember. 2) Regarding vibrato, i don't use finger vibrato on up vibrato, i use my wrist and forearm exclusively. My thumb stays on the back of the neck, loosely. I do use finger vibrato for down vibrato on bass strings. 3) I am not convinced about pinch harmonics being the super best invention since the microwave. I realize you can hit them quickly, but I am believing more and more that I can get a better harmonic using the tip of my middle finger. I have found that i can do that holding the pick in either style #1 or #2. Of course, i reserve the right to change my mind. But the difference really stands out when you roll off the high frequencies. And i believe it may be possible to hit them that way just as fast as a pinch harmonic, and maybe with more legato. Not sure though, not yet. Very interesting stuff - can you explain your AH technique again? I remember you saying something similar on the Harmonics lesson thread - sounds like you are doing real Artificial Harmonics which is cool, I'd like to understand it a bit better ... I don't care what you say I think Pinch Harmonics ARE cool but they are just one technique of many and I'd like to hear your perspective on your technique.Vibrato : - each to his own, if that works for you then yes, that's one less reason to move your thumb up top! -------------------- Check out my Instructor profile
Live long and prosper ... My Stuff: Electric Guitars : Ibanez Jem7v, Line6 Variax 700, Fender Plus Strat with 57/62 Pickups, Line6 Variax 705 Bass Acoustic Guitars : Taylor 816ce, Martin D-15, Line6 Variax Acoustic 300 Nylon Effects : Line6 Helix, Keeley Modded Boss DS1, Keeley Modded Boss BD2, Keeley 4 knob compressor, Keeley OxBlood Amps : Epiphone Valve Jnr & Head, Cockburn A.C.1, Cockburn A.C.2, Blackstar Club 50 Head & 4x12 Cab |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 1 2007, 11:48 PM
|
|
QUOTE (fkalich @ Jun 1 2007, 05:35 PM) well it came about in similar fashion as did my vibrato, out of ignorance as a kid i tried to imitate some really wild vibrato, so i ended up with the wrist and forearm. only later did i learn those guys used wammys for that. that was in my former life. this year when I picked it up again, i heard the term pinch harmonic, so i figured it out myself, wrong again. i would pinch the string, between the tip of the pick and the tip of my middle finger, both on the picking hand. actually my harmonics are the true "pinch harmonics". the type you guys do unfairly stole the name. in fact, i expect i will do them as you do more often in the future, i can see it is really suitable for some things. no reason you can't do both. whatever works best at the moment. i do try to hit them precisely. typically at the 1/3 node, or 1/4 node below the 12th fret, at th 1/2 node above the 12th fret. as i play a number of guitars, i have to reference them all a bit differently. i hit them all at spots past the fretboard, over the pickups. i have found a few useful tricks. for example, if you hit the 1/3 node harmonic, you can hit that exact same spot, a major 5th up, and it will be the 1/2 node. most for a song, i have to just memorize a half dozen or so spots. i realize that you can set you tone so you don't even have to think about this stuff, you will get one just about everywhere. but it is best to hit them precisely, i am sure you agree. Yes, I definitely agree - I try and tune my "Pinch Harmonics" in exactly the same way, to get an octave or 5th depending on what sounds good in that part of the song. I would call what you are doing "True Artificial Harmonics" whereas I believe that what we usually call "Pinch Harmonics" are really "Opportunistic Artificial Harmonics" - I make the distinction because, as you point out, most people don't care which harmonic they hit when doing a PH, they just want a scream. What you are doing sounds like it could be expanded to play a whole melody in say octave harmonics, and get a cleaner sound. You can do that with PH of course, but it tends to be harder, and your way sounds cleaner I agree. Interesting stuff I'll give your way a try.
-------------------- Check out my Instructor profile
Live long and prosper ... My Stuff: Electric Guitars : Ibanez Jem7v, Line6 Variax 700, Fender Plus Strat with 57/62 Pickups, Line6 Variax 705 Bass Acoustic Guitars : Taylor 816ce, Martin D-15, Line6 Variax Acoustic 300 Nylon Effects : Line6 Helix, Keeley Modded Boss DS1, Keeley Modded Boss BD2, Keeley 4 knob compressor, Keeley OxBlood Amps : Epiphone Valve Jnr & Head, Cockburn A.C.1, Cockburn A.C.2, Blackstar Club 50 Head & 4x12 Cab |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 2 2007, 10:25 AM
|
|
Those are some huge posts with opinioins there... WOW.
I will only add a couple of words: I changed a lot of picking styles, going from Kirk Hammet style to Rusty Cooley. I tried to learn picking like Michael Angelo - and spent the whole year on it and finally i had to change that style 'cause it doesn't work for me. So i watched a lot of videos and loved Rusty's style the most. Since than i am picking like that and that's the best for me so i don't plan on trying any other style. So here is the advice for those who doubt about their picking: watch videos of many different guitarists and try each of those styles. The one that is right for you is the one you feel most comfortable. Enjoy it! -------------------- "It isn't how many years you have been playing, it's how many hours." -- Prashant Aswani "PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!" -- Michael Angelo Batio Check out my video lessons and instructor board! |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 3 2007, 12:42 AM
|
|
QUOTE (fkalich @ Jun 3 2007, 01:13 AM) midkiem, andrew, i have come to feel your style (thumb and last digit of index horizontal to strings) is the way to go. certainly for my style. my resistance was that one does not see the middle finger as well as holding it in the other style (index pointing down at about 5 o'clock). as i don't like to do pinch harmonics much (for reasons i explained to andrew), and do them with the tip my middle finger, i liked being able to see that finger tip to help hitting the node precisely. however, i as speed picks up i realize i need to made that adjustment based on feel, not vision. and clearly the way you guys hold it has the advantages. this brings up another issue. i play gibsons and fenders. the way i get a feel for where to hit the harmonic is largely based on the bridge, how that feels to my palm, i get my positioning that way. and since the bridge on a fender is different, well that means, well i don't know. may not play my fenders for awhile, until i can hit all the harmonics at speed blindly based on feel of the gibson. Some good points came up lately. Certainly it's great to play in a way that feels comfortably. Problem is that when one play the way one does, one never know if there's an even better way that could increase speed, accuracy or whatever. It's a kind of catch 22. I belive Pavels suggestion about studying and copy other players style is a great idea. Time consuming for sure but I guess very helpful in finding the way. And lavendells point about not holding too tight. That's something I will have to work on a bit, become more relaxed and find what power for gripping is enough. I'm sticking to the thumb, index position. In a couple of years I may look into improving it or changing by copying like Pavel said. But for now it's great for me. About the other issue with Fender bridge. I also like to feel the bridge and keep a very low action on the strings. The problem for me with Fender Stratocasters is that when I play I keep accidently touching the volume time and again turning the volume down. It's from my position on the bridge. So I rather just play another model. It's strange though, Charvel and Ibanez have the volume knob in the same place but I never screw up with them. They are a bit harder to turn but I don't know if that's it, I don't belive I even touch them. -------------------- My bands homepage
All time favourites: B. Streisand - Woman in Love, M. Hopkin - Those were the days, L. Richie - Hello |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 3 2007, 10:30 AM
|
|
QUOTE (MickeM @ Jun 3 2007, 01:42 AM) The problem for me with Fender Stratocasters is that when I play I keep accidently touching the volume time and again turning the volume down. I used to have the same problem (and still have to a certain degree). I found that if you put your pinky around the volume nob you won't accidently touch it that much. That way ain't really 100% proof though, so when I do touch it by mistake I do a slight motion to turn it up again. The motion is so small that it's hard to even see it. check this video at 02:12 for an example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZrxJMeCxVQ Don't know if this method suits you, but maybe it's worth a try? I don't want you to stop playing Stratocaster because of this problem.
|
|
|
|
|
 
|
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:
