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Posted by: Yash Sep 20 2014, 05:17 PM

I've seen so many guitars with a quilted or a flamed maple top They look much more amazing than their non-maple topped counterparts Especially quilted maple tops. I just love them The reason I've gotta wait for my guitar (there's a thread on that, if you want to check out) is because of that maple top in an amber sunburst finish. There's one available in the plain black finish, and one in trans black finish. But, that one looked the BEST ! It looked as if the guitar was on fire My question is - what does a maple top add to a guitar's tone, except the amazing looks of course ? How much difference would be between, say a Les Paul with a maple top and mahogany body and one without the maple top and just the mahogany body ?

Posted by: klasaine Sep 20 2014, 06:18 PM

It all really depends on the exact individual pieces of wood but in general ...

The maple top will add a bit more high-end and sustain.
Mahogany can be a little dark sounding so Gibson decided to 'cap' Les Pauls with maple to bring back a little snap.
*Not all LPs have a maple top and the pickups, hardware and neck can play a major role in a guitar's tone.

Again, this is general info. No two guitars (even two LPs with consecutive serial #'s) will sound exactly the same.

Posted by: Sensible Jones Sep 20 2014, 06:34 PM

Exactly what Ken sad Yash! The Maple Cap brings some brightness and top end to the low and mid Mahogany party!!

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Sep 20 2014, 06:53 PM

My impression is that maple in a the guitar (neck or body) make it quite a bit easier to play harmonics. Also i tend to like the brighter tone. Thumbs up for maple! I would like to have another guitar with maple neck like my strat, for example an RG with maple neck.

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Sep 20 2014, 07:00 PM

I can say that I don't have too much knowledge in the wood stuff but one of the luthier I've been working said that a thick maple top adds more body (bass range) to a telecaster shape guitar... is this possible?

I'm using this guitar in some songs live nowadays and I can say that it has a good bass frequencies and a very good sustain... (and off course maple top).

Posted by: Yash Sep 20 2014, 07:11 PM

That's good I like bright tones I really love the strat chimey clean sound So, what if you add Mahogony to an already bright body, like Alder and Ash Even brighter ?

Posted by: klasaine Sep 20 2014, 07:19 PM

There are many reasons why a guitar can have great bass response and/or be bright sounding. It's really never just one factor.

Gabriel, is that Tele shaped axe a 'neck thru' or is it a bolt-on? That factor alone can usually affect the tone and response more than any specific wood. Also, your Tele has a carved top - which usually means it has a 'cap' on it.

Posted by: Mertay Sep 20 2014, 08:23 PM

ESP Kamikaze is all maple body, might be a good example

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Sep 20 2014, 09:10 PM

@ gab - I have two all-maple guitars and both lack bottom end. so in general I would not agree to that statement. As Ken said it depends on the specific peace of wood as well, and pickups have a great impact - so scientific comparisons are kinda difficult.

Posted by: SirJamsalot Sep 20 2014, 10:35 PM

Keep in mind the moisture factor of your guitar - rosewood and many other types of wood are very pourous, and because only the top is sealed, the inside (the hole) is bare wood - maple is a denser wood, and will weather better, but as a rule of thumb, try to keep your guitar in the 70F range with 50% humidity (45-55 actually).

no comment on the tone. i suspect it would be too subtle to notice - especially if mic'd or using a pickup.

-- edit -- oops, thought this was about accoustic, but the humidity / fingerboard, etc. same applies the whole type of wood debate gets heated - i prefer to stay out of thatt!

Posted by: klasaine Sep 20 2014, 11:14 PM

+1 and me too!

Even with just the wood you have to consider: age, density, moisture level, grain, quality of, 1 piece or 2 and 3 piece bodies (and necks), is it capped with something, the glue they use, paint, how much paint, lacquer, what type and how much lacquer, who put it together, were they skilled ... ? Too many variables.

I have 20 electrics. Many are the exact same type using the 'same' woods ... and no two (of the same type) sound the same - even acoustically. I have a Gold Top sans maple cap that should be darker than a standard or a custom (w/maple cap) - but it's not - ?.

The wood makes a difference but it's only like 1 of 20 things that 'make a difference' on an electric guitar. And in my experience, which I don't mind saying at this point in my guitar playing life is vast, even just changing tuners or bridge saddles can sometimes drastically alter the tone of a guitar. Sometimes for good, sometimes for bad. *Changing your pick will usually have more of an impact on your tone than anything else.

Case in point: On my Telecasters I (and many others) like the low E and A strings to pop and snap with a little less sustain than the rest of the strings so I put an aluminum saddle under the low E and A and brass under the D, G, B and high E.



Having said all that, a Tele will usually be brighter than a Les Paul (even w/the maple cap).
Save for that one generalization - all bets are off.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Sep 23 2014, 10:52 PM

Some great replies!! I have an ibanez with a MAHOGANY body and a FLAMED MAPLE top and the combo is amazing. Even with CRAP pickups, the sustain is great, pinch harmonics are easy to get, punchy and thick, just nice all around tone.

The Mahogany body is a bit dark but has great sustain so the maple top is a great add on. The only thing I don't like about mahogany is the weight. For example, I bought a B.C RICH MOCKING (the one Kerry King used on the Hell Awaits Tour) and it weighed 28 POUNDS!!!

I got rid of that and the Ibanez mahogany weighs about half that.

Posted by: Mertay Sep 23 2014, 11:43 PM

Thats a sweet top

Been playing one for so long when I hold a Fender it feels like a toy

Posted by: Todd Simpson Sep 24 2014, 02:40 AM

Thanks It's a beautiful guitar. When these were first issues they were $1,000 each. You can get good examples on ebay now for way less than that Getting a mahogany, neck through, maple top, locking trem, guitar for under $500 is a wonderful thing

Posted by: Yash Sep 24 2014, 12:48 PM

Wow, so many factors determine tone of a guitar ! I never knew moisture and stuff affects things too.

You sir, just gave me an inspiration for a new thread Get your cameras ready folks

Posted by: SixStringSamurai Sep 24 2014, 10:29 PM

Ibanez's use of maple tops (essentially veneers) are more cosmetic than anything, really. I wouldn't expect it to figure much into the tone of the guitar.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Sep 24 2014, 10:49 PM

This is especially true of the newer guitars and any model with a "veneer", mine is one of the older models thankfully

Posted by: Mertay Sep 24 2014, 11:11 PM

True, I just checked mine is 7mm thick. Veneer is actually very new for ibanez as far as I know they started that with the indo factory.

Today the nice tops go to high-end prestige and J. custom line. Nice flame tops were always on the expensive side but I think each year the wood quality is dropping no matter what brand unless its a top of the line model.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Sep 25 2014, 02:51 AM

BINGO!!! The "Indo" ibbys have been great for making ibby guitars affordable and obtainable for everyone, but they did take the quality down a notch to make the guitars affordable. They reserve the nice bits for the "Prestige" lines and higher end models.

Thus, why many Ibby Fans are always looking for MIJ or even MIK (made in Korea) Ibanez guitars that were built before "the change". My RGT42FM is a MIK model and my RG560 and RG7620 are both MIJ. You can often find killer deals on these guitars used as many times folks just don't know what they are worth.

Todd

Posted by: fkalich Sep 26 2014, 04:33 AM

I have 3 maple top Gibson LP's, and one Gibson LP that is solid Mahogany. The pickups are the same as on 2 of the maple tops. I assure you that they sound significantly different. I like the Mahogany though, I like it a lot. I got one of the first ones that Gibson offered about 7 or 8 years ago, when they came with a hard shell case. I think the quality was better then on what they have sold more recently. Although I think that they are cutting this item out completely in 2015. I can't really describe how the Mahogany sounds different. I don't agree that harmonics are easier or harder to hit. Maybe I could say it has a more mid range sound to it, a bit more clarity also. Not better, just different and a nice change for variety.

Be aware of something. You see some really great looking maple tops on cheaper guitars. If you take off the pickups and measure the thickness you will see how they are able to provide those on the cheaper guitars, they are very thin veneers, not thick as on a Gibson LP Standard or Custom shop. I am not sure how think the top is on recent issue Gibson Studio LP's. The one Studio I have is a premium+ with a AAA top, and it is very thick.

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Sep 26 2014, 05:09 PM

I don't really have any experience with maple tops, to be honest but I love the looks of a maple top, but I had no clue what it really does to the sound. Now, thanks to this thread, I found a lot of interesting things myself

Posted by: Yash Sep 26 2014, 06:45 PM

So thickness makes a difference too ? And, I am guessing that the number of A's is how beautiful that piece of wood is ?

Posted by: Todd Simpson Oct 1 2014, 05:53 AM

Yup The thickness matters. If it's just a "veneer" it's just a very thin layer and it's just for looks, it won't have much impact on the tone. Older, and more pricey guitars often can have thicker tops than have more impact on tone

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Oct 1 2014, 09:45 AM

Oooh, so that's what veneer means! Now I got it The thicker the top, the more impact it has on the tone - thus the more expensive the guitar. But anyway, I've seen that for instance, some mid range guitars - such as the PRS Zach Myers - have a pretty serious maple top - take a look:



It's pretty solid, or at least that's how it looks to me..

Posted by: Yash Oct 1 2014, 11:01 AM

Well, I totally love veneers too, if they are quilt top. Has anyone ever wondered if there would be a graphic paint job or something of a high end PRS on some normal priced guitar ? Get the looks of a high end today !

Posted by: klasaine Oct 1 2014, 06:49 PM

In the mid 90s Fender Japan used a technique called 'photo' flame.
http://xhefriguitars.com/page7.html

Posted by: Todd Simpson Oct 2 2014, 02:13 AM

Now that's a bit cheese IMHO. ESP is guilty of doing that on their cheaper guitars from what I gather. It's not a flame top but a sticker that's just shlacked on under two inches of clear coat. Sorta bobo.

Posted by: klasaine Oct 2 2014, 06:30 AM

It was always advertised as such and did not affect the price at all ... at least with Fender.

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Oct 2 2014, 08:08 AM

I have no clue, but, one thing I know, is that I wouldn't go for a guitar that looks nice, but doesn't sound equally nice Frankly, I think that's an investment that no company would do - an expensive looking guitar that sounds bad. So, maybe I am wrong here, but I sure can't see this happening

Posted by: klasaine Oct 2 2014, 04:38 PM

May I kindly direct you post # 26

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Oct 3 2014, 10:11 AM

Thank you good Sir! I slipped this one it seems

Posted by: Yash Oct 5 2014, 09:46 AM

Well, if you have a nice sounding alder body guitar that doesn't usually have a maple top, you can get the looks by a graphic the paint thingy That's what I meant Beautiful quilted maple tops

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Oct 5 2014, 12:01 PM

Well, if that makes you happy, you should aim for that idea on the next guitar you want to acquire I for one had no clue about what really maple tops meant until very recently We live and we learn, right?

Posted by: SixStringSamurai Oct 6 2014, 07:08 PM

It's common on Korean guitars to have a normal maple top, PLUS a figured veneer on top. So you get the tonal impact of a hunk of maple, as well as the looks of a highly figured top. It's easy to tell the difference - put it next to any USA PRS with a figured top and natural binding, and you can immediately see the flame/quilt figuring in the binding of the USA, while you won't see it on the SE (because it's not a full thickness figured maple top).

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Oct 7 2014, 02:02 PM

I have the Myers and the Tremonti USA at my right side as I am writing this And frankly, they are two pieces of exquisite craftsmanship - it's pretty hard to judge I am amzed of how beautiful the Zach Myers really is and the sound is great as well. I have it home for a review and while at it, I did these pics for PRS as well: http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=53153

PS: There's also a wallpaper with the Myers It came out beautiful and I thought I'd share it with you guys as well!

Posted by: Spock Oct 7 2014, 09:41 PM

Not sure because of the dark paint job on your Tremonti, but in the cutout especially you can see the difference in the veneer topped guitar and the maple cap. The cap is thick, about a 1/4" (6 mm) I am guessing. I'll take a quick pick of the two together.

But that is the reason why (I assume) that the Korean made PRS's don't have the contours on the edges and around the knobs (they're all flat) - where on the US models they have little dips, because they can be routed out of a chunk of wood, where veneer wouldn't stick to well to the form.

My Jackson is this way as well - flat top with a veneer.

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Oct 8 2014, 02:54 PM

Looking forward to see the comparative pic and now I get the idea with the little dips - but the Tremonti doesn't have the little dips

Posted by: Spock Oct 8 2014, 03:32 PM

I forgot about the pics when I got home. But regardless of if the little dips are around the knobs or not, the tremonti does have a maple cap on it and not a veneer from what I can see - you wouldn't put a veneer on a contoured guitar like this. Notice how thick it is from the binding on the edge to the top where the pickups are. And notice the groove cutout. That's a thick cap put on a mahogany body.

Easier to see in the red finish below.






You can really see the maple cap here...

Posted by: Hexabuzz Oct 8 2014, 05:33 PM

I've seen veneers on contoured and carved tops...



The G&L ASAT Deluxe in their Tribute line of imports is an example, and it's a great playing and great looking guitar. This is the sunburst with maple neck, but they also did a natural finish with a rosewood fingerboard.

Posted by: Spock Oct 8 2014, 06:42 PM

Interesting - I stand corrected.

I did put a veneer top on that Jackson I was trying to refinish - and used (2) 50 pound bags of sand to apply it to the contour.

Posted by: Hexabuzz Oct 8 2014, 06:49 PM

I'm wondering if they do it at the factory under a vacuum... I know Parker uses a vacuum and heat system to bond the carbon fiber exoskeleton to the wood of the body and neck. It's possible that if you put the veneer on a carved body, and then into some form of vacuum bag to maintain the pressure over the contours...



And here's a nice thread about a similar project as yours:

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tele-home-depot/384389-nearly-relic.html

And a cool site for tools and supplies:

http://www.veneersupplies.com/

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Oct 9 2014, 07:04 PM

Very interesting! Thanks for sharing this mate - I will bookmark it to watch later

Hey! This looks nice, mate! It reminds me of one of Ben's guitars, with just one bucker!