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GMC Forum _ GEAR & PRODUCTION _ Gas. What Next?

Posted by: Phil66 Nov 1 2015, 06:47 PM

OK,

I have all the guitars I want, (no more room sad.gif ) and apart from changing the Epiphones for Gibsons and the Peavey Tele for a Fender Tele I'm wondering what I should aspire to next??

I've been thinking about a tube pre-amp. Would one be ok with the Boss GT-001?

I don't really need another amp, I have 2 Blackstar 4x10 cabs, a Blackstar HT 1 R head and a Vox Lil Night Train head.

I have some Tannoy 402 monitors, a Boss GT-001 with Roland EV-5 and a 24" widescreen monitor.

No point suggesting an upgrade on my PC as that is what we class as household requirements wink.gif Don't know how I managed that one but I did smile.gif

Cheers folks. Bring on the suggestions smile.gif

Posted by: Mudbone Nov 1 2015, 06:57 PM

If you like to play with clean tones, I would recommend a Fender tube amp. There's nothing quite like playing a Fender through a Fender.

Posted by: Phil66 Nov 1 2015, 07:50 PM

Thanks, but as I said I don't really need another amp, I only have one Fender (Mexican HSH).
Here's the room



Cheers

Posted by: Mertay Nov 1 2015, 07:58 PM

Did you ever try an analog overdrive into the GT-001?

Since I've been using one I don't think I can go back to direct into soundcard for soloing, the guitars touch sensitivity increases greatly and I use much less effort to play the same thing.

Posted by: Phil66 Nov 1 2015, 09:03 PM

Interesting Mertay,

I've just sold an original pre 1978 Big Muff Pi because I never used it. I'd that the type of thing you mean?

How about one of http://www.tcelectronic.com/ndr-1-nova-drive/? I can get a used one.

Phil


UPDATE:
I've decided to go for a VDL Hotbird to run in front of the GT-001 smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif

Posted by: Mertay Nov 1 2015, 10:22 PM

The muff is more of a distortion/fuzz type pedal almost replacing the amps tone. Overdrive is like hitting 11 when the amp is already set at 10 if we're considering shred. But take example an ehx soul food, blues guys only use it for a hardly noticable boost to sweeten their amps tone.

To be honest as long as its analog and adds some dirt its hard to go wrong. For the sake of testing, I'd recommend something affordable like a used boss sd1, ibanez ts9 or new joyo, mooer...

That Nova should also work but I have no idea if you'll like it, also it might be a bit harder to sell it later. Thing is besides the pedals tone, an overdrive must be selected for the right amp/style etc. too...

I like this video as its educative, might help; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdKjhXWpjq8

For shred, Todd's channel is cool he recently tested the tightdrive from amptweaker and you can hear how it affects the tone.

I'm sure you'll get the idea quickly, but when deciding to buy the first overdrive be aware its almost impossible to nail the right pedal at first attemt. Everybody I know including me changed or are thinking to changing their first bought overdrive pedal smile.gif

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Nov 1 2015, 08:03 PM) *
UPDATE:
I've decided to go for a VDL Hotbird to run in front of the GT-001 smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif


Lol thats a super aggressive sounding pedal smile.gif What I ment was more like getting the clean tone the guy is using on the video, notice the subtle breakup of the amp. Not saying it won't work but situation is like this;

Using subtle overdrive pedals; the tone itself won't sound good or atleast amp-like, but it will work with any amp sim. as it isn't doing much to the tone so you get flexability.

Using strong overdrive/fuzz pedals; Software amp must always be clean to slight breakup, you can tweak the pedals tone but can't jump to alternative distortion tones.

Just give some thought into this, if you find yourself always using a similar tone (and its like the VDL sound) than cool I nowadays only use a metalzone thats boosted with a ts9 or bb9 for shred stuff. But if you still feel like there is some room to experiment then something that lightly drive might be better.

Posted by: Phil66 Nov 1 2015, 10:34 PM

Thanks,
I've just been talking to Ace about the pedal, he says it's very versatile, use as drive, distortion or fuzz, lots of scope for variation. I've started thinking that maybe I could use it for drive tones, the GT-001 for chorus, delay etc and Amplitube for cab sim. Also I'm thinking when I have a blast on my tube head it will work well.

http://www.vdlanalogics.com/hotbird/

What you reckon?

Posted by: Mertay Nov 1 2015, 11:38 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Nov 1 2015, 09:34 PM) *
Thanks,
I've just been talking to Ace about the pedal, he says it's very versatile, use as drive, distortion or fuzz, lots of scope for variation. I've started thinking that maybe I could use it for drive tones, the GT-001 for chorus, delay etc and Amplitube for cab sim. Also I'm thinking when I have a blast on my tube head it will work well.

http://www.vdlanalogics.com/hotbird/

What you reckon?


As I only watched 1 video and never tried the pedal its a bit hard for me to comment much on it, but if its capable for subtle overdrive than it should work fine. Extreme settings never blend well, like if the amp is too cracked then a cranked pedal would make it fuzz or dull...its always about balancing where a majority of tone is coming and what is supporting it.

Yeah overdrive is very versatile for usage, since you have the gear can experiment with a lot of combinations (like wether the amp being analog or software). I don't know the vox but the blackstar has cab. outs so that might work well too.

The whole idea is either getting some or all drive tone before the soundcard to get a more organic experience. I still like digital stuff but slided to the analog domain simply because of the feel on the fingertips, some do it specifically for tone. I just select a cab., use some eq on computer and ready to rock as my base distortion tone is already setuped by pedals.

Like I said its really up to what budget you can use, just remembered for example Gabriel recently started endorsing Joyo pedals and he made a test video on husky drive. Joyo stuff is very affordable and good sounding for the price while that hotbird seems like nice boutiqe quality stuff.

If you check any stores avalible overdrive pedals menu the list is huge, I don't want to recommend anything specific as I can never be sure if you'll like it. Would be easier for me if you couldn't make up your mine between a few products, then I would listen to your current tone or ask what ou listen or do you aim for a specific sound in an album etc...since you're not in a rush, take some recommendation from here or your local guitar store to atleast know the popular options some I named earlyer and listen them on youtube to get some idea. If still then you'll be certain on the hotbird then go for it smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Nov 2 2015, 07:22 AM

Thanks Mertay

I have to admit I hate trying lots of things. I always forget what the earlier things sounded like. Even written notes don't seem to help. It seems like a minefield with pedals which is why I went the multi fx route. I don't get much spare time so I try to make work what I've got or when I buy something I bite the bullet, buy something and get the best I can from it. My head is spinning just thinking of trying all the pedals wacko.gif
Cheers
Maybe I should get another guitar laugh.gif I'll find a way to fit it in smile.gif

Posted by: ChrisGLP Nov 2 2015, 07:22 AM

Wow Phil... congratulation to your guitar room... smile.gif I am envious...

... and my wife is angry because I want to buy me a second guitar!! laugh.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Nov 2 2015, 10:06 AM

QUOTE (ChrisGLP @ Nov 2 2015, 07:22 AM) *
Wow Phil... congratulation to your guitar room... smile.gif I am envious...

... and my wife is angry because I want to buy me a second guitar!! laugh.gif



Cheers laugh.gif you need to educate her in the priorities of life wink.gif
When I got married nearly 25 years ago I didn't have a guitar. Now I have those and my wife has bought me three of them.
Maybe show her a picture of my room to show her how sensible you are. That might help persuade her wink.gif

Posted by: ChrisGLP Nov 2 2015, 10:47 AM

Thx Phil... smile.gif

I try it with the picture of your room and on the sensitive manner... laugh.gif laugh.gif rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Mertay Nov 2 2015, 04:04 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Nov 2 2015, 06:22 AM) *
Thanks Mertay

I have to admit I hate trying lots of things. I always forget what the earlier things sounded like. Even written notes don't seem to help. It seems like a minefield with pedals which is why I went the multi fx route. I don't get much spare time so I try to make work what I've got or when I buy something I bite the bullet, buy something and get the best I can from it. My head is spinning just thinking of trying all the pedals wacko.gif
Cheers
Maybe I should get another guitar laugh.gif I'll find a way to fit it in smile.gif


ok then I'll recommend a Boss sd1 smile.gif

Its affordable, very recognised, built like a tank, buffered and has a good drive range to be used with plug-ins (not too much or not too clean). Has good output so should drive anything, I think Zack wylde used it for shred and many used it for all eras of rock.

As said, its sound on its own might not please you but once you get a good sound from your amp or computer, adding this will enrich the sound.

If you ever want to upgrade its relativly easy to sell but you can also use it too boost other pedals to like the hotbird if you ever want to buy it.

Posted by: Phil66 Nov 2 2015, 08:44 PM

Thanks Mertay,

I spoke to him again later on and I asked him, "Can the Hotbird do subtle breakup?" and his answer was "Totally. It can sound like a valve Channel"

That video is interesting, thanks.

The SD1 is so cheap I might get one too. It will be a couple of weeks before I get the Hotbird so I may get the SD1 in the mean time. I have to say, the Hotbird is a piece of art, it will look lovely on my desk next to the GT-001 smile.gif You must have bought something in the past just because, well, just because laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

If you watch the three video demos, the guitars all retain their character.

I need to go the the doctors, I have GAS bad rolleyes.gif laugh.gif rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Mertay Nov 2 2015, 08:51 PM

biggrin.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Nov 2 2015, 10:54 PM

More info http://www.aceguitaracademy.co.uk/#!the-hotbird-/c1ifn

smile.gif

Posted by: Mertay Nov 3 2015, 12:22 AM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Nov 2 2015, 09:54 PM) *
More info http://www.aceguitaracademy.co.uk/#!the-hotbird-/c1ifn

smile.gif


I'm starting to get a better idea after watching 3-4 times the same pedal with different guitars.

My only negative comment would be that he drived the amp a bit too much for the demonstration although its a fine sounding pedal. Being a geek, I love stuff with lots of buttons/knobs smile.gif it is well thought though, even the light colors (my guess) represents inspired units from the past.

Fuzz although sounds like distortion is definitly a different fx for the player. I don't use it much, it has such a huge sound shred style simply doesn't go with it but a lot of blues guys love it. Its less depended/sensitive to picking articulation but when the backing track is right nothing sounds as huge as a fuzz.

I think you're going to spend more time on the afterburner. Still the stuff I said before applys as first you dial your amp tone then add and adjust the overdrive. Having lots of settings option on the pedal, might become a comfort to you as you develop a defoult amp sound (analog or software) setting and adjust from the pedal as needed (for backing tracks or gain adjustments). Options may look scary at first but are always nice to have.

I agree, a boss sd1 would be nice for you to experiment while waiting. It basically has 1 sound to it unlike the option loaded hotbird so until the unit arrives you'll probably setup/chain your gear to be ready to accept the hotbird.

Also, make sure to ask about the power supplys for the pedals (battery is a hassle for home usage trust me) and don't forget extra cables. Boss power supplys are easy to find as they're very universally used (for other brands too) but the hotbird may need something special as its a boutiqe unit. Let me know if you need and help smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Nov 3 2015, 07:20 AM

Cheers Mertay,
Glad you're warming to the Hotbird wink.gif
I agree it sounds too driven in the demo but I thought someone with his experience wouldn't do that and maybe the producer had got some recording input set too sensitive but I might be blowing outta my ass with that laugh.gif
Cheers again

Posted by: Mertay Nov 3 2015, 01:37 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Nov 3 2015, 06:20 AM) *
Cheers Mertay,
Glad you're warming to the Hotbird wink.gif
I agree it sounds too driven in the demo but I thought someone with his experience wouldn't do that and maybe the producer had got some recording input set too sensitive but I might be blowing outta my ass with that laugh.gif
Cheers again


Artistically actually he isn't doing anything wrong, soundwise he gets a nice sound from the rig and it can even be driven more depending what one is looking for.

My comment was more on the marketing side, to really have some idea of the overdrives character its better not to drive the amp much as we want to hear the pedal more. Most demo's aren't made with very clean amp settings for a good reason, most overdrives aren't designed to sound good on clean amp settings.

A common negative comment from beginers who bought their first pedal is that the pedal doesn't sound like the videos, this pretty much explains the importance why not to drive the amp much on demo's.

It will sound different with your amp or computer too specially the overdrive section, probably not radically but it will. I see this as a nice thing, everybody gets their own sound smile.gif

Update edit; This is a nice video, its the more expensive version of the sd1 which is non necessary for you but should give some idea on overall overdrive usage. Further in the video he always gives the amps sound first then engages the pedal. In my experience using with soundcard makes even more difference.


Posted by: Phil66 Nov 9 2015, 11:52 AM

Hotbird ordered. Dispatch next Monday from Italy. I'm getting signed model number 8 smile.gif

Posted by: Mertay Nov 9 2015, 01:12 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Nov 9 2015, 10:52 AM) *
Hotbird ordered. Dispatch next Monday from Italy. I'm getting signed model number 8 smile.gif


Cool! another collectable item smile.gif Now you're in trouble as we'll want to hear it through your playing once you get your hands on it biggrin.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Nov 9 2015, 07:04 PM

QUOTE (Mertay @ Nov 9 2015, 12:12 PM) *
Cool! another collectable item smile.gif Now you're in trouble as we'll want to hear it through your playing once you get your hands on it biggrin.gif


Eeeeek smile.gif

Posted by: bleez Nov 9 2015, 08:06 PM

yep, we wanna hear the new prs through the new hotbird biggrin.gif

congrats on the new pedal btw, it does sound pretty badass.

Posted by: Phil66 Nov 9 2015, 10:47 PM

Cheers,

Valerio (The V in VDL Valerio Alfredo Di Loreto) is going to send a signed photo with it. I might make a little shelf to put the pedal on the wall underneath the guitar with the pic by the Ace pic wink.gif Only when I'm not using it of course smile.gif


Posted by: Phil66 Nov 22 2015, 08:39 PM

Should be here tomorrow smile.gif

Posted by: Mertay Nov 22 2015, 10:15 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Nov 22 2015, 07:39 PM) *
Should be here tomorrow smile.gif


Cool! I hope you've practiced shred-tastic solo's for us!

Kidding smile.gif we do want pic's and first impressions though!

Posted by: Phil66 Nov 22 2015, 10:20 PM

Most definitely getting pics. cool.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Nov 23 2015, 08:43 PM

Ok, it's here. He forgot to put the signed pic in but I did get a tee shirt smile.gif It's got a very hand made look to it, nice and industrial. Not played through it yet, much experimenting to do smile.gif














Posted by: Mertay Nov 23 2015, 09:39 PM

Nice! I think it actually is handmade smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Nov 23 2015, 10:21 PM

QUOTE (Mertay @ Nov 23 2015, 08:39 PM) *
Nice! I think it actually is handmade smile.gif


Yes it is, and they haven't tried to disguise it smile.gif

Sounds great through my amp, not much success through my GT-001 yet but it's early days. smile.gif

Posted by: Mertay Nov 23 2015, 10:35 PM

biggrin.gif

Keep testing but yeah no rush, depending on the chain you feel best sounding and most comfortable let me know if you need any assistance (and I'm curious too) smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Nov 23 2015, 10:48 PM

Thanks.

Any suggestions for starters? I have one problem. I wanted to feed the GT001 from my Blkackstar emulated output BUT I can't use speaker emulation without a preamp in the chain and I can't find a transparent one.

Would a Shure SM57 be a valid option?

Cheers

Posted by: Mertay Nov 23 2015, 11:37 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Nov 23 2015, 09:48 PM) *
...


We might be able to get a clean signal from the aux input, though not 100% sure this should work (it should get the sound through but not sure if it can record);



this converts a guitar jacks tip into a smaller, earphone-like tip. It should be extremely affordable and easy to find in music stores (or electronic supply type shops).

Worth a shot cause from mic input either we'll need a di-box for direct in or an sm57, mic.ing may be a problem for the neighbors at night smile.gif

Does the boss amps offer to disable the amp but keep the cabinet? blackstars I think also has line or headphone outputs, if possible we could use the cabinet from the gt001?


edit; found the parameter guide; http://lib.roland.co.jp/support/en/manuals/res/63101153/GT-001_r_e01W.pdf

as I understand from page 4, if you press on/off the preamp should be disabled?

Posted by: Phil66 Nov 24 2015, 09:17 AM

Thanks Mertay,

If I disable the preamp it disables the cab emulation. The GT001 has phantom power mic inputs so I was thinking of trying that. I can do more experimenting at the weekend. Best option so far has been using the Blackstar emulated output which is for recording or headphones.

Cheers

Posted by: Mertay Nov 24 2015, 10:41 AM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Nov 24 2015, 08:17 AM) *
Thanks Mertay,

If I disable the preamp it disables the cab emulation. The GT001 has phantom power mic inputs so I was thinking of trying that. I can do more experimenting at the weekend. Best option so far has been using the Blackstar emulated output which is for recording or headphones.

Cheers


The sm57 is a dynamic mic. that doesn't require phantom power but the thing is its not a very sensitive mic. and thats why I'm a bit suspicious on how it would work in a home environment.

In studio, the best sound happens when the amp is really cranked. If wanted to record vocals for example, the preamps of a console or soundcard are forced a bit. Think of a loudly speaking person in the room, that would be the minimum healthy sound level acoustically needed for an sm57 to do its magic.

Darious has a lot of experience with such approach at home or smaller rooms, I strongly recommend you sending a pm to him to get the best advice if such workflow is ok for you and your environment. Maybe he could recommend something better for home use.

What I'd brainstorm would be either using the emulated output (as you did), stick with that cab. sound from amp and use eq to change its character when needed (use gt001 fx post)...or get a line level (non-emulated, it the amp has that option) from the amp, use gt001 fx (pre) and use cab. sim from computer. Either way you won't be forcing any cpu (cab. sim.s/ir's need really low power, lots of good freeware on web too).

Posted by: Phil66 Nov 24 2015, 12:35 PM

Thanks Mertay,

I have full version of Amplitube 3, I just hate the interface. I'd like to persevere with the Hotbird as it feels different when playing through it and sounds great through my Blackstar (no line out on it).

Thanks again for your help Mertay.

Cheers smile.gif

Posted by: Mertay Nov 24 2015, 01:06 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Nov 24 2015, 11:35 AM) *
Thanks Mertay,

I have full version of Amplitube 3, I just hate the interface. I'd like to persevere with the Hotbird as it feels different when playing through it and sounds great through my Blackstar (no line out on it).

Thanks again for your help Mertay.

Cheers smile.gif


Cool, very understandable as although pedal+plug-in is frequently adviced by me or friends here full analog is always something else...

If you decide not to mic. your amp but feel the cab. emu from the amp isn't enough for any reason let me know as thats solvable by using an eq. Have fun experimenting smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Nov 24 2015, 10:07 PM

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr,

A whole night wasted, my GT-001 has stopped outputting any sound from the guitar input. All other sounds on computer are working fine. The GT-001 is my soundcard.

The only thing I have done is to update firmware on my Korg NanoKontrol2 but I can't see how that would affect anything.

mad.gif mad.gif mad.gif mad.gif mad.gif mad.gif

Posted by: Mertay Nov 24 2015, 11:21 PM

Hmmm I also couldn't think of a reason, when you insert a track in reaper does it playback ok too? also why not revert to previous setup and re-install the korg?

Posted by: Phil66 Nov 25 2015, 09:30 AM

Thanks Mertay,
I didn't try Reaper but I can't see it being a problem, Windows sounds work, youtube works, media player works, iTunes works.
I tried a system restore and it said it could restore and I tried about 5 restore points.
Cheers

Posted by: Mertay Nov 25 2015, 10:27 AM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Nov 25 2015, 08:30 AM) *
Thanks Mertay,
I didn't try Reaper but I can't see it being a problem, Windows sounds work, youtube works, media player works, iTunes works.
I tried a system restore and it said it could restore and I tried about 5 restore points.
Cheers


Check the asio settings for the soundcard and reaper. I guess it changed a setting somewhere, re-installing the boss+ (maybe) reaper worst case should solve it if its that sort of an issue...

Posted by: Darius Wave Nov 25 2015, 11:04 AM

Big Muff is a very specific type of vintage drive. I think it can't be treated as a reference analog overdirve to make you opinion of whole range of analog OD. I would say it's "overcompressed, broke, old radio" type of sound for Jack White smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Nov 25 2015, 12:05 PM

QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Nov 25 2015, 10:04 AM) *
Big Muff is a very specific type of vintage drive. I think it can't be treated as a reference analog overdirve to make you opinion of whole range of analog OD. I would say it's "overcompressed, broke, old radio" type of sound for Jack White smile.gif

Darius??? smile.gif

Posted by: klasaine Nov 25 2015, 06:22 PM

A Big Muff is a 'fuzz' tone.
It can also do lower gain, almost overdrive tones but it's more famous as a HUGE sounding fuzz pedal.
Smashing Pumpkins, Dinosaur Jr. and Nirvana are some of the famous 'big muff' using bands.
*Gilmore's solo on 'Comfortably Numb' is a Big Muff.
Keep in mind there are several different versions of the muff. The classic tones are all from the 70's and early 80s Muffs.

Posted by: Phil66 Nov 25 2015, 09:09 PM

Thanks Ken,

Yeah I kinda understod what Darius was saying but was a little confused as to why he was saying it at this point in the conversation smile.gif I was talking about a Big Muff originally back on page 1 of this thread as I had just sold a pre '78 one and when I tested it before putting it on the bay I thought it "felt" different to my digital stuff.

Thanks

Phil

Posted by: Phil66 Nov 25 2015, 10:29 PM

I feel such a HUGE fool!!!!!!!!!!! sad.gif sad.gif sad.gif sad.gif

Turned out it was my EV-5 vol/expression pedal was up. What a total dingbat. Sorry folks. What makes it worse is that it has caught me out before. Because it's under my desk tucked away I don't think of it. It must have been when I was plugging the Hotbird back into the mains. I had taken it to my friends guitar shop for them to see and I must have caught it.

Sorry.

Posted by: Mertay Nov 25 2015, 10:48 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Nov 25 2015, 09:29 PM) *
I feel such a HUGE fool!!!!!!!!!!! sad.gif sad.gif sad.gif sad.gif

Turned out it was my EV-5 vol/expression pedal was up. What a total dingbat. Sorry folks. What makes it worse is that it has caught me out before. Because it's under my desk tucked away I don't think of it. It must have been when I was plugging the Hotbird back into the mains. I had taken it to my friends guitar shop for them to see and I must have caught it.

Sorry.


heheeh laugh.gif don't feel sorry and trust me we've all have such storys biggrin.gif

Posted by: Darius Wave Nov 26 2015, 11:05 AM

Ha ha ha ! biggrin.gif I was refering do Big Muff since Mertay (?) mentioned about trying analog OD and I understood it as you had Big Muff and was not satisfied with it. So...I wanted to clear things up smile.gif Because it's like buying hollowbody guitar for playing metal. You can't say you don't like electric guitars when you try to use above, and it doesn't work tongue.gif Sorry for the brutal comparison tongue.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Nov 26 2015, 12:31 PM

laugh.gif
I meant that when I played through it into my Blackstar head it "felt" different, it did also get some nice Hendrixy type tones too but it was the feel.
Do you have any suggestions to how to get the best recording from my Blackstar emulated out with the Hotbird in the front end Darius?

Cheers smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Nov 26 2015, 09:17 PM

OK,

For those interested, http://www.aceguitaracademy.co.uk/#!the-hotbird-/c1ifn are some details about the knobs/switches in case you can advise me.

I've not had pedals before really, only digital multi fx. I have to say, playing through an amp is totally different to the PC even though I'm using my PC monitors smile.gif (The emulated out switches of the cab speakers sad.gif Wish there was a way to fix this so I could choose)

Cheers

Phil

Posted by: Mertay Nov 26 2015, 09:49 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Nov 26 2015, 08:17 PM) *
...


I remember it being a blackstar but whats the model?

Posted by: Phil66 Nov 26 2015, 10:54 PM

Thanks Mertay,

https://www.blackstaramps.com/products/ht-1rh is what I have.

Been thinking about getting this https://www.blackstaramps.com/products/ht-5rh because of eq, fx loop and it still has emulated output 1x12 or 4x12. I could use this for recording and the 1 watt for playing through the cab.

What you think?

Thanks for your help Mertay:)

Posted by: Mertay Nov 27 2015, 12:18 AM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Nov 26 2015, 09:54 PM) *
Thanks Mertay,

https://www.blackstaramps.com/products/ht-1rh is what I have.

Been thinking about getting this https://www.blackstaramps.com/products/ht-5rh because of eq, fx loop and it still has emulated output 1x12 or 4x12. I could use this for recording and the 1 watt for playing through the cab.

What you think?

Thanks for your help Mertay:)


Cool, lets start with your current amp smile.gif using overdrive is really not that different compared to using a processor. Like we use presets on a processor for various sounds (clean,distorted,bluesy overdrive etc...), the overdrive gives us options. The advantage is we maintain a similar character and master it.

To start with adjusting pedal you have to adjust the amp first. On clean channel, keep the eq in the middle-reverb closed and volume matched for the soundcards signal so it won't clip.

You'll remember on ACE's demo's when he gives the first sound (without pedal), the sound was driven and I found it too much smile.gif

For starters, select the overdrive button on the amp but keep the gain a bit lower. You're aiming for a clean-ish sound where the overdrive is heard only when you bang a chord on the guitar...simply the lowest gain you could use for the genre's your listening (but not a clean sound!). Keep it at this while adjusting the pedal.

The amp now represents our lowest 2 gain sounds. You'll use the eq and reverb to adjust for backing tracks/recordings later on.

Now the pedal will give us 3 more sounds. Our extreme solo gain will be when both sides are engaged, earbender (fuzz) for a cutting solo sound and afterburner for powerchord-ish stuff or alternate solo sound.

Lets start from the Earbender; All knobs looking at 12 oclock. First adjust the volume, keep it where its only slightly higher compared to when the pedal was off. Crack the fuzz knob, now if you feel the current sound is harsh adjust using the top knob to sweeten it. A fuzz sound is usually wanted to be thick/overpowering, adjust the cream knob for this. Play some sounds and if you feel the sound is too chaotic for any reason now you can decrease the fuzz knob to your liking and adjust volume if needed.

Afterburner; All knobs looking at 12 oclock, clipper at green. First adjust the volume, keep it where its only slightly higher compared to when the pedal was off. Remove any harshness or add clarity by using the tone knob, when adjusting it switch pedal on/off so it meets a common ground with the amps balance. The mid knob is a personal taste thing, again switching pedal on/off might help adjusting it.

The gain on overdrives usually aren't cracked, adjust it to a point where you feel is solo friendly but not overpowering like the fuzz. The modern/vinatge switch is again a personal think, select what sounds best through you amp.

Now engage both sides, adjust the tone and level of the sound by only using the volume knobs of each side.

From here the rest is up to you smile.gif ;

-If you feel the sounds from the pedal aren't gain-ey/strong enough increase the amps gain knob

-feel free to change any knob if needed but incase if you feel confused try and remember where the knob was before.

-You can increase the volume of the afterburner and decrease the gain to blend more of the amps sound if you like. Keep in mind; The afterburners main job is replacing the gain knob of the amp for a solo distortion boost, the flavor is up to you.

-If you don't like the sound when both sides are engaged, you don't have to like it smile.gif

-It takes time and experience to nail the perfect setting or mastering the pedal. Make some recording (the more the better) with it, get opinions on sound from this forum for further adjustments. Its supposed to be fun so take your time smile.gif

We'll discuss the other amp you mentioned once you feel a bit comfortable with the pedal, lets get a feel of the potential of your current rig first. Let me know if you need any further help smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Nov 27 2015, 07:55 AM

Thank you so much for taking your time to do that Mertay, it is really really appreciated.

One thing, and I'm not home right now, I can never get my soundcard to clip. When I have Reaper on, in record armed mode, if I keep turning the volume up on the amp and/or the pedal, the peak meter never really gets higher. It's as though there is a built in protection. This isn't anything to do with the pedal because it's been like it ever since I had the GT-001.

I'll check that out this evening.

Thanks again Mertay, I owe you BIG time smile.gif

Posted by: Mertay Nov 27 2015, 09:42 AM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Nov 27 2015, 06:55 AM) *
...


No problem smile.gif

A week ago I gave a quick lesson to someone on using Reaper to record on backing tracks (first time he ever used a DAW). Since he was new to this and his computer was old, I decided to use his amps output just like you did.

Same thing happened with his digital Fender amp, was cool so he didn't had to adjust levels. I didn't have the time then to test if it affects the sound though, like wether it was compressing the sound or not. Its really not an issue as I didn't notice anything bad while testing the setup, just might be worth a check later on when you have time.

Posted by: Phil66 Nov 27 2015, 10:11 AM

Thanks Mertay,

It's the same if I don't use the amp. If I go straight into the GT 001 with low output pickups or high output pickups it makes no difference, even if I turn the patch level up, the pre amp gain and volume up, it never clips. My old unit had an input sensitivity knob with an led that flashed when clipping.

Cheers

Phil

Posted by: Mertay Nov 27 2015, 10:29 AM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Nov 27 2015, 09:11 AM) *
Thanks Mertay,

It's the same if I don't use the amp. If I go straight into the GT 001 with low output pickups or high output pickups it makes no difference, even if I turn the patch level up, the pre amp gain and volume up, it never clips. My old unit had an input sensitivity knob with an led that flashed when clipping.

Cheers

Phil


Regular soundcards can't do that, I did use an expensive apogee once in a studio that had level protection and didn't like it.

But while soundcards are designed to record anything, my guess is such protection is more do-able for the guitar cause unlike other insruments guitar can take any compression or distortion smile.gif

I also noticed that with boss's dijital distortion pedals, used a booster before the pedal and no artifects happened like it would with a soundcard. Recent boss stuff started to make me like digital distortion again, some don't like them which is ok but they're well engineered products.

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 2 2015, 12:28 PM

Thanks for everything Mertay,
Been busy lately not had much guitar time sad.gif
Just for the experience I'd like to try a mic. What would you recommend? I don't really have to worry about neighbours as we're not joined, no kids just my wife downstairs when I'm practising. I don't want to play loud enough so it can be heard through theexternal walls and windows though so which Mic will do the job? I have a 4x10 cab.
Also is there a special name for those small Mic stands I've seen by combos?
Cheers smile.gif

Posted by: Mertay Dec 2 2015, 01:04 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 2 2015, 11:28 AM) *
Thanks for everything Mertay,
Been busy lately not had much guitar time sad.gif
Just for the experience I'd like to try a mic. What would you recommend? I don't really have to worry about neighbours as we're not joined, no kids just my wife downstairs when I'm practising. I don't want to play loud enough so it can be heard through theexternal walls and windows though so which Mic will do the job? I have a 4x10 cab.
Also is there a special name for those small Mic stands I've seen by combos?
Cheers smile.gif


Ok thats cool, an sm57 is pretty much a standard and affordable too (don't forget you need an xlr cable too). If there is anything better for home use Darious would know, he's always busy but I'm sure he'll reply a pm.

I don't think there is a special name for short mic stands but I'd suggest buying a standard one as they can be adjusted anyway you like, maybe in the future if you change gear placements in the room a short one might not be enough.

Some things to keep in mind while testing the mic.;

-with sm57 you don't need phantom power
-From the manual it says you must remove the guitar jack from soundcard when using the mic. input.
-close speakers and use headphones (adjust not to be loud) when first adjusting the mic.

There is something called feedback that can occur when dealing with mic.s and speakers, its something like a sustaining note and can be very loud. If it happens dial back the mic.s preamp gain or speaker volume or change the angle of the speaker.

Once you get a sound with no feedback on headphones, lower the speaker and monitors volume before turning them on. Slowly turn on their output volumes to prevent feedback.

Feedback is a bi.ch in smaller rooms so be careful not to damage your ears. A friend of mine who also newly started to use a mic. with an amp only uses headphones for recording cause of this as his room is really small. Nothing to be afraid of but just be patient and careful as you're new to it.

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 2 2015, 01:51 PM

Thanks Mertay you are a legend wink.gif

Posted by: Mertay Dec 2 2015, 02:18 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 2 2015, 12:51 PM) *
Thanks Mertay you are a legend wink.gif


laugh.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 2 2015, 02:23 PM

I'm serious, to me you are a legend, super helpful smile.gif

Out of interest, if I ever wanted to record guitar and vocals at the same time how would I go about it?

Cheers again buddy smile.gif

Posted by: Mertay Dec 2 2015, 04:52 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 2 2015, 01:23 PM) *
I'm serious, to me you are a legend, super helpful smile.gif

Out of interest, if I ever wanted to record guitar and vocals at the same time how would I go about it?

Cheers again buddy smile.gif


It's good that you ask actually, maybe Kris would bookmark this topic as pretty much your questions represent everyones needs at some point smile.gif

You mean acoustic guitar right? your guitar has a line out so soundcard input 1 is covered (guitar), for the vocal both sm57/58 (same mic., only the top is different for each model) can work for demo purposes (must keep it very close and off-axis to mouth) but if someone asked me the same question and if I didn't know their gear I'd recommend a condencer mic.

If the source isn't too loud like a drum or electric guitar, we use condencer type mic.s (these are the ones that require phantom power). They are very sensitive and detailed, for vocal its important to use a pop filter as we blow too much air on some words to the mic. .

They pickup all the good and bad detail, bad is like computer noise, car noise from outside or tapping of feet...so it can capture both vocal and guitar at the same time though the overall sound would be roomey, so in a studio we usually prefer 2 mic.s if the song is played and sung at the same time.

Edit; I just realized, you asked for the use on you GT001? ....mmm sorry I don't think it can do it sad.gif check the link, the mic. section is right at the end of the English part of the manual (page 13); http://lib.roland.co.jp/support/en/manuals/res/63101122/GT-001_egfispd01_W.pdf

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 2 2015, 06:37 PM

Thanks Mertay,

What equipment would I have to get in order to record electric guitar and vocals simultaneously?

Sorry for all the questions but it's a very interesting subject smile.gif

Cheers

Phil

Posted by: Mertay Dec 2 2015, 08:23 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 2 2015, 05:37 PM) *
Thanks Mertay,

What equipment would I have to get in order to record electric guitar and vocals simultaneously?

Sorry for all the questions but it's a very interesting subject smile.gif

Cheers

Phil


Unfortunatly its a limitation of your soundcard as far as I understand from the manual. There are 2 inputs but they are I guess internally connected to 1 converter when sending the signal to the computer.

Any dedicated 2 input soundcard (both input with preamps) should do the trick. You can either connect the guitar from line and use the other input for vocal mic. or use 2 mic.s if you'll want to mic. the cab.

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 2 2015, 09:03 PM

Great thanks Mertay smile.gif

I'm thinking I could possibly use the GT001 in the FX loop if I got a Blackstar HT5R head just for modulation effects. I'm a bit lost in all this really. If I did do that what interface would you suggest to be able to record two mics or one mic and electric/acoustic input. Not that I want to sing myself but someone might or I might want to do a video for Gab or something explaining something at the same time. It will just save time wink.gif

Cheers

Posted by: Mertay Dec 2 2015, 10:44 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 2 2015, 08:03 PM) *
Great thanks Mertay smile.gif

I'm thinking I could possibly use the GT001 in the FX loop if I got a Blackstar HT5R head just for modulation effects. I'm a bit lost in all this really. If I did do that what interface would you suggest to be able to record two mics or one mic and electric/acoustic input. Not that I want to sing myself but someone might or I might want to do a video for Gab or something explaining something at the same time. It will just save time wink.gif

Cheers


Though I have no experience, something like a presonus audiobox iTwo is affordable and should work fine.

I recommended Roland quad capture to 2 of my friends I think 2 years ago, one had problems with windows xp and upgraded to win7 which solved the issue while the other though had no prblems with his own computer told me it didn't work proberly on a mac.

Driver compatibility is getting less of a problem compared to the past but if I were to buy a soundcard atleast google the model I like to see if the users report a continuing problem with any device on recent dates...

Acoustic is ok but recording both electric and vocal with mic.s in the same room might make things hard. Feedback again as I mentioned might be a problem but also the vocal mic. might pickup the guitars sound too and this would cause muddyness. Kris sometimes makes these crazy songs on facebook, I never asked but I think he uses a Kerper processor which basically works like your GT001.

So since we can't record 2 sources at the same time with the gt001, this approach makes the most sense to me considering we have an 2 input soundcard;

input 1; Using a mic. recording vocal
input 2;

A-Guitar to gt001 using its amps and fx to soundcard.
B-guitar to amp (from amps cab. output) to gt001 for only fx to soundcard.

A or B is really your choice for the tone you like.

As for the HT5R, I highly recommend you not to change your amp until you find the signal chain that works for you. THere are a gaziilon ways and products on the market to solve or create any recording approach but first we must find the solid ground. I wouldn't want you to invest in an amp and not use it later on. And keep in mind I'm not even going to mention deep on tone preference as the amp is the heart of our tone.

PS; Just looking at the HT5R, seems its main advantage is its features and as for amp tone it might not sound so different from your current amp but this is just a guess.

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 2 2015, 11:40 PM

QUOTE (Mertay @ Dec 2 2015, 09:44 PM) *
A-Guitar to gt001 using its amps and fx to soundcard.
B-guitar to amp (from amps cab. output) to gt001 for only fx to soundcard.

A or B is really your choice for the tone you like.

As for the HT5R, I highly recommend you not to change your amp until you find the signal chain that works for you. THere are a gaziilon ways and products on the market to solve or create any recording approach but first we must find the solid ground. I wouldn't want you to invest in an amp and not use it later on. And keep in mind I'm not even going to mention deep on tone preference as the amp is the heart of our tone.

PS; Just looking at the HT5R, seems its main advantage is its features and as for amp tone it might not sound so different from your current amp but this is just a guess.


I'm a bit confused with the term "soundcard" . my GT 001 IS my soundcard so it is confusing. blink.gif

Posted by: Todd Simpson Dec 3 2015, 02:17 AM

What Mertay Said!! smile.gif


Sounds like it may be time to get a multi channel interface smile.gif Any unit from FOCUSRITE or PRESONUS will get the job done. Below about $250 the quality is similar as are the specs. It would let you record multiple inputs at the same time. E.G. singing through a mic, and your guitar. You can always get a 4 channel interface so you can record your amp with a mic, your voice with another mic, and your dry guitar signal for plugin/reamping smile.gif

Just depends on what you want to do and how much you want to spend.

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 2 2015, 06:40 PM) *
I'm a bit confused with the term "soundcard" . my GT 001 IS my soundcard so it is confusing. blink.gif


Posted by: Mertay Dec 3 2015, 09:07 AM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 2 2015, 10:40 PM) *
I'm a bit confused with the term "soundcard" . my GT 001 IS my soundcard so it is confusing. blink.gif


Yeah but in a 2 input approach I discribed above, it can be used for its processor functions. If it was a normal soundcard with only 1 input then it wouldn't have any function at all.

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 3 2015, 09:49 AM

QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Dec 3 2015, 01:17 AM) *
What Mertay Said!! smile.gif


Sounds like it may be time to get a multi channel interface smile.gif Any unit from FOCUSRITE or PRESONUS will get the job done. Below about $250 the quality is similar as are the specs. It would let you record multiple inputs at the same time. E.G. singing through a mic, and your guitar. You can always get a 4 channel interface so you can record your amp with a mic, your voice with another mic, and your dry guitar signal for plugin/reamping smile.gif

Just depends on what you want to do and how much you want to spend.


Thanks Todd,

It's more about what I want to be able to do should the situation arise smile.gif It seems sweet to be able to record a dry guitar signal at the same time as recording but how would I route it?

Cheers

QUOTE (Mertay @ Dec 3 2015, 08:07 AM) *
Yeah but in a 2 input approach I discribed above, it can be used for its processor functions. If it was a normal soundcard with only 1 input then it wouldn't have any function at all.

Thanks Mertay,

So would I need two soundcards/interfaces? Sorry about all the questions, I'm not a dingbat really but connecting stuff together bamboozles me. I really get confused when I have a new TV laugh.gif


Cheers

Posted by: Darius Wave Dec 3 2015, 10:38 AM

Ha ha ha! Read a part of this topicand I see Phill..you're squeezing MEraty to the limits of his patience (huge pateince) biggrin.gif Well done Mertay BTW smile.gif

No-you do not need 2 interfaces=soundcards because for the purpose you mention, each of prviously mentioned Focurite or Presonus card will support the ability to record 2 sources (voc + instrument) at two independent tracks. Buying externam interface is always a good deal even if you would be using it only as a preamp for micorphone. It takes care of few things that usually would case o need to purchase a few separate devices.

These days many Guitar FX devices have buil-in usb connection which actually makes them visible as an audio interace for your computer. Yet...this only means you won't have to degarde your singal quality byt connection guitar fx through analog out to PC built-in soundcard (realtek driver or similar).

Basicly by audio interface we understand a device that will

1. Process analog audio inputs into digital information
2. Will take huge part of CPU usage for audio processing into it's own CPU, making your recording gear more efficient
3. Will usually give you ability to power up condenser microphones - 48 phantom power
4. Will give you ability to play with lower latency
5. Will give you much betweer signal to noise relation than typical PC built-in card
6. Will give you muhc higer resolution (quality) of recorded tracks (24 bit /98 kHz for example insteadof 16bit/44.1 kHz)

So no matter if Your GT is able to work as an interface, it will not solve a lot of situations above. If you plan to spend some time on recordings in the future...even if just for fun, you should definitely buy an interface

Posted by: Mertay Dec 3 2015, 11:19 AM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 3 2015, 08:49 AM) *
Thanks Mertay,

So would I need two soundcards/interfaces? Sorry about all the questions, I'm not a dingbat really but connecting stuff together bamboozles me. I really get confused when I have a new TV laugh.gif


Cheers


No problem smile.gif you only need 1 soundcard that have 2 inputs, just like many of the members here that use.

What confused you is that your current gt0001 (only has 1 input) is although can be used as a soundcard, its functionally more of a processor. What I suggested was, say you want to record 2 inputs at the same time and bought a new soundcard. You can still use your gt001 as a processor only.

But things doesn't end here on routing smile.gif you'll need something called a "splitter", with a splitter you can plug the guitar to a splitters input and have 2 outputs that carrys the same signal.

1 of those signals can go to the soundcard direct (as in direct guitar), so thats input 1
the other output can go to your pedal/amp and from the amps emulated output to input 2

or alternatively;

1 of those signals can go to the soundcard direct (as in direct guitar), so thats input 1
the other output can go to your pedal/amp, the amp can be mic.ed and that mic. is connected to input 2

but if you want record a guitar and vocal at the same time, you won't need a splitter...

To be honest though, although splitting signals is a pro approach friendly with homestudio use I'm not sure you're going to use it smile.gif as you don't use amplitube and rarely use the re-amping feature of the gt001, I feel you're sort of the guy who likes to get the sound right and move on instead of being a tweaker smile.gif

Still though for playing guitar and using a mic. for speach or singing at the same time you need an 2 input soundcard smile.gif

QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Dec 3 2015, 09:38 AM) *
Ha ha ha! Read a part of this topicand I see Phill..you're squeezing MEraty to the limits of his patience (huge pateince) biggrin.gif Well done Mertay BTW smile.gif


hehehe biggrin.gif thanks and no patience at all, just glad to be able to help smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 3 2015, 12:31 PM

Thanks Mertay,

I have enough info to work with for a short time but................................I'll be back cool.gif

Sorry if I gave you a headache unsure.gif

You deserve a GMC medal for assistance smile.gif

Cheers

Posted by: Mertay Dec 3 2015, 12:41 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 3 2015, 11:31 AM) *
Thanks Mertay,

I have enough info to work with for a short time but................................I'll be back cool.gif

Sorry if I gave you a headache unsure.gif

You deserve a GMC medal for assistance smile.gif

Cheers


Cool, anytime smile.gif

Posted by: jstcrsn Dec 3 2015, 01:28 PM

I tried to quickly read this thread , so i hope i don,t duplicate huh.gif . I have a presonus 2 channel interface and would not recommend it ( can,t speak for their larger ones ). My presonus is squirly and stop working for a day or two when i get windows updates ( this might be my computer, but reading their threads - others have similar problems ). after my research , I would look into the focusrite 2i4 and the steinberg units as they heave better specks and reamping type things that won't limit you .

I would recommend against recording guitar and vocals together , you will get so much noise on the vocal track mixing will be a nightmare ( thats is why you always see singers in an isolated both)

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 3 2015, 05:11 PM

Thanks Jason, all good info. smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 3 2015, 09:47 PM

OK, I'm back, these were recorded with the mic about 2" (50 mm) from the grill cloth, between the centre and edge of the speaker cone (10") with the mic input set to +20db and the mic point perpendicular to the cab.

It doesn't sound the same as it does in in the room, it almost has an echo quality to it which I also noticed when my wife came in and decided to have a go at saying "testing testing, two, two, two" laugh.gif

The amp is much crisper, obviously there is a huge learning curve for me to do on my own but any pointers would be great. Given the volume I am playing at should I have gone for a condenser mic? I can only get it to hit -16db on the Reaper peak meter, or should I get a mic preamp?

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/bridge-cleanish

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/neck-cleanish

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/bridge-dirty

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/neck-dirty

Posted by: Mertay Dec 3 2015, 10:09 PM

Wow that was fast! is your neightbor a musicstore? biggrin.gif

We have some potential there smile.gif but I noticed the tone is too fat, you can give openness by moving the mic. closer to the center. Infact, could you record a short clip like this as the mic. is right at the center and close to the speaker? maybe we can get that peak meter to hit a little higher on that amp volume.

By the way, the distortion sounded a bit more open to me than the clean. Is thats the amps distortion or pedal? this sound sharing is really fun, lets keep doing this from now on biggrin.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 3 2015, 10:19 PM

Thanks Mertay,

I'll do some more tomorrow, the distortion was the clean channel with gain full and the Afterburner with full volume, tiny gain, tone 12 o clock, mid edge 12 o clock, modern setting, green clipper.

What I didn't like was the fact that it didn't sound close to the original when played through my monitors.

For reference here is the acoustic with mic about a foot from soundhole.

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/acoustic

Thanks Mertay, glad you like the sound swaps smile.gif

Posted by: Mertay Dec 3 2015, 10:52 PM

Yeah thats normal actually but its sort of the thing thats liked about mic.s as they color the sound. You'll get used to it and specially when playing over back tracks enjoy it in time.

Best is to adjust placement wearing headphones so you won't have to keep recording each time while trying to nail the mic. placement.

Until you get used to mic.ing, it might be better not using the pedal for now cause it can alter the tone a lot as I noticed and that might complicate things for you at this point.

Lets keep the amps eq flat for now and go between clean and overdrive only. After we get a relatively balanced tone then we'll kick in the pedal which I'm sure will be fun cause I'm curious about it smile.gif

Dynamic mic.s on acoustics is actually harder to nail. I think I'm hearing some computer fan noise on that recording you might want to place the mic. somewhere more away from the computer.

Try moving it closer to the guitar, its usually adviced to point to mic. at the 12. fret of a guitar but this is just a staring point. Every mic., guitar needs some experimentation on mic. placement. I guess we can get to that in detail after we feel comfortable with the amp lets go 1 step at a time smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 3 2015, 11:38 PM

Thanks Mertay,
I hope this is giving you some valuable experience for when you get some other numpty asking loads of questions smile.gif
One of my problems is I am into real HiFi and have https://www.meridian-audio.com equipment so I don't like it when something isn't sounding like the source mad.gif
Cheers buddy
Phil

Posted by: Mertay Dec 4 2015, 12:22 AM

Nah as long as we keep progressing like this I'm sure you'll be giving the advices around here soon and I'll enjoy reading smile.gif

By the way those speakers look sick! I understand what you mean, I've been in some hi-fi shops and studios that had amazing speakers/monitors and yeah there is no turning back from that kind of experience...

Feeling a bit irritated is good, that will drive you to get the tones you hear from the albums you liked all your life smile.gif funny after a while one memorises the mic.s character and gets used to switching between sources.

There are a lot of guys out there that have their amps mic.ed at home enjoying both the sound they like in the room and the other sound in their recordings. Once you setup the system, I bet you're going to enjoy the more album-like tones you2ll get when recording over backing tracks wink.gif

Posted by: Todd Simpson Dec 4 2015, 12:31 AM

Some great advice smile.gif You are on your way to being a recordist! I read through the thread and I don't yet get if you have an audio interface or are you going direct in to your internal computer sound card?

As for "routing" the good news is that it's easy! smile.gif If you have a FOUR CHANNEL interface, you can get a splitter for your guitar so it would go

GUITAR/SPLITTER/ then you have two cables out. One goes to guitar amp, one goes directly in to the interface. Now you have 3 channels left on your interface to put up to 3 microphones. Honestly though, 2 inputs is probably enough smile.gif Especially if your using one microphone.

Being able to mix the miced amp with a dry signal that you put amplitude or something on, can yield really good results.

As for recording a cab. WHAT MERTAY SAID! smile.gif P.S. What type of mic are you using? Please tell me it's a SHURE SM57



QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 3 2015, 06:38 PM) *
Thanks Mertay,
I hope this is giving you some valuable experience foot when you get some other numpty asking loads of questions smile.gif
One of my problems is I am into real HiFi and have https://www.meridian-audio.com equipment so I don't like it when something isn't sounding like the source mad.gif
Cheers buddy
Phil

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 4 2015, 08:35 AM

Thanks Todd and Mertay,

Todd: Using my GT-001 as my interface not going into computer soundcard. Mic is Shure SM-57

Mertay: We need to start again rolleyes.gif I woke at 3am with this on my mind, I said about the sound from monitors having an almost echo sound to it, well at 3am I woke up and my words word "Phil you xxxxxxx dingbat, you had a patch running in the GT-001" I went and checked and yes, there it was, with reverb, delay, chorus, amp sim and cab sim!!!!!!!!!!!! No wonder it sounded so different laugh.gif

I have a patch called "NO FX" which has everything switched off, I will go through that tonight smile.gif

Another thing, it's a 4x8 cab not 4x10, I keep saying 4x10 rolleyes.gif

Sorry folks

Mertay, I actually swapped my Meridian CD player and dual monoblock amp along with some Mission speakers for the F80, it sounds incredible. I've only ever bought pre-owned Meridian equipment, it's far too expensive to buy new wink.gif

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP3WYE1KdZA

Posted by: Mertay Dec 4 2015, 04:44 PM

laugh.gif

No problem, we were going to start from scratch anyway. As said, use headphones when searching the right spot for the mic. and no pedal+amp eq flat (test with clean and overdrive).

Whatever placement sounds most balanced to you is what what we're looking for but sure I'd also like to listen smile.gif That patch might have efected the input signal strenght on Reaper, maybe now it will get stronger.

I used to check out a Turkish hi-fi forum and sometimes helped the members with small advices. Its been 2-3 year maybe since I haven't been active there but I remember they started to buy really afforable/low power netbook computers and removed the internal fans for most quiet operation smile.gif

I guess unless something pushing the extreme, computer has become an unseparable part in the hi-fi would. This ofcoure goes for cd type digital players as nothing can replace a good amp and speaker.

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 4 2015, 08:45 PM

Thanks Mertay,
I'm actually enjoying this recording stuff, very interesting wink.gif

When I took the mic stand out of the box, the bottom screw clamp was broken, nothing major, just the plastic head that you turn it with had nearly half missing. I emailed the shop and told them, said it's not an issue as I won't be using that screw once it is set up but thought they should know for future dispatches. They immediately put a replacement whole stand on delivery and told me to keep the original smile.gif

The Meridian CD player I had was a little different to most. When you ejected the CD, you didn't just see a flimsy drawer come out, it was actually the whole internals, you could see the laser. I think this must have been to prevent any alignment issues and to minimise error correction but I don't really know how they work so I might be totally wrong smile.gif



Sounds coming soon smile.gif

Posted by: Mertay Dec 4 2015, 10:10 PM

smile.gif

Its so important to work with decent shops, probably everyone I know bumped into faulty units right out of the box and the better stores/companys handle situations best.

I'm glad you're enjoying the process, key to getting into and personalizing a tone has a specialy fullfilment to it for the musician. Personally I always feel like I'm able to give more to the audience if I'm confident with my tone.

Keep in mind while adjusting the stand always release and tighten full cause in time they tend to get lose and won't stay in position cause of the weight.

I had this teacher in college who was one of those guys that had perfect pitch, I was told by someone else he was at the limits of such ability. We had a conversation once on burning cd's (it was year 2002 I think) as I felt something was happening with tone although it was digital (I wasn't into sound tech back then, pure classical music).

He told me he noticed changes on all different blank cd brands, we played some on a hi-fi (nothing high-end but was the schools better system) and something definitly was going on. Later on when studying soundtech I learn a bit on digital distortion etc. and then it started to make sense to me.

I bet even musicians aren't aware of such things. But though its not obvious, its always the little things that matter when enjoying music specially if its not live. At home since harddisk's are so huge these days, I copyed most of my cd's on harddisk. Its a shame I'm not doing things old fashion as it was nicer to open cd's, placing them ritual thing but confort won over me in time smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 4 2015, 10:12 PM

Ok, this is the closest I can get it to sounding like my actual amp without spending hours making micro adjustments smile.gif

It was closest to the amp/cab tone when I put it half way between centre and edge. In the middle it seemed a little bit harsh. Mic was about 1" from grill. Signal was hitting around -30bd on the peak meter so that patch must have boosted it a little bit. The actual decibels coming from the cab at the mic location is around 85 with a peak of 90, my acoustic at the soundhole is around 90db with a good hard strum.

I need to get some playing practise done now so I'll stop experimenting for a day. Please keep in mid that it is impossible to get Reaper to clip with this GT001, some sort of internal auto level thing I guess. This is why I'm thinking of a new interface, one with input level knobs.

Thank you everyone for your help smile.gif

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/bridge-cleanish-ii

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/neck-cleanish-ii

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/bridge-dirty-ii

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/neck-dirty-ii

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/bridge-v-dirty

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/neck-v-dirty

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/acoustic-12th-fret

Posted by: Mertay Dec 4 2015, 11:27 PM

Aside from the recording level being low, I liked what I'm hearing smile.gif the balance seems good on solo, keep in mind you can move the mic. closer to the center if it can't cut-through a backing track when further testing. To fine tune the mic. placement you can also give an angle like this as it can also make a difference;



You might have noticed the tone really responds to your picking strengh as you hit the string harder, a lot more detail can be expressed with a mic.ed cab. (the tone can be describes as having depth and breathing) and still today the computer/processor lacks in that department.

On low recording levels noise and a bit boxy-ish sound can be normal so don't worry about that. Is the reverb closed? I'm not sure as I noticed a slight echo time to time but it can be caused by a number of things.

85-90db in the room are good levels for home recording but -30db on Reaper is to be honest a problem. I wouldn't care much if it was around maybe a healthy -6 or something around there but even though we can increase any sound level in the DAW we'll get noisey results. But this doesn't mean we'll stop at this point smile.gif we can start fine tuning your pedal anytime you're ready smile.gif

I can't say much about the gt001's preamp cause both the webpage and manual is a bit criptic about it, not giving any spec.s I can relate to. I could give advice on a super affordable preamp like a presonus tubepre v2 if you don't want a new soundcard but I don't know how well it can work with the GT001 (it might cause too much noise as 2 preamps will work together).


Posted by: Phil66 Dec 5 2015, 10:47 AM

Thanks Mertay

I should have said I used a different guitar, it was a Strat with split coils. I used single for the clans and humbuckers for the dirty.

What do you think of the acoustic?

Reverb was on about 30%

Is it worth getting a new soundcard and a head with fx loop like the Blackstar 5w so I can put the GT-001 in the loop for modulation? (Expensive route)

I can't really turn the volume up any louder unless the house is empty wink.gif would a more sensitive mic be an option?

Maybe get rid of GT-001 and use plugins for modulation effects with a decent interface. The preamp gain in the GT-001 goes to +20 dB.

I feel we have got somewhere really quickly and am extremely grateful to you. Thank you.

Cheers

Posted by: Mertay Dec 5 2015, 12:05 PM

Glad you're liking whats going on as you're using your limited time with good effort smile.gif

The sm57 is a mic. that does need good gain but a more sensitive mic. might pickup too much room/computer noise so I think you're good with the sm57 right now, its a proven mic. so we're cool.

The only problem I see now is input gain. Most cost effective solution would be the presonus preamp I mentioned, could you email boss service if its ok to use an external preamp with the gt001? (ask if it would cause too much noise comapred to using a typical soundcard) If no then I'm afraid we will need a dedicated soundcard.

Here is our current situation;

if we can do (depending on the boss service answer) mic. to preamp to gt001 as soundcard then we're good. We'll get good input level so no noise issues.

But if we can't use something like a presonus preamp this won't work; mic. to gt001 as fx unit to (new) soundcard...reason is since the input gain on gt001 is low, we'll only increase the noisey sound from the gt001.

Best for now is writing and waiting an answer from the service, depending on the answer then we'll figure out the best solution.

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 5 2015, 06:12 PM

QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Dec 3 2015, 09:38 AM) *
Ha ha ha! Read a part of this topicand I see Phill..you're squeezing MEraty to the limits of his patience (huge pateince) biggrin.gif Well done Mertay BTW smile.gif

No-you do not need 2 interfaces=soundcards because for the purpose you mention, each of prviously mentioned Focurite or Presonus card will support the ability to record 2 sources (voc + instrument) at two independent tracks. Buying externam interface is always a good deal even if you would be using it only as a preamp for micorphone. It takes care of few things that usually would case o need to purchase a few separate devices.

These days many Guitar FX devices have buil-in usb connection which actually makes them visible as an audio interace for your computer. Yet...this only means you won't have to degarde your singal quality byt connection guitar fx through analog out to PC built-in soundcard (realtek driver or similar).

Basicly by audio interface we understand a device that will

1. Process analog audio inputs into digital information
2. Will take huge part of CPU usage for audio processing into it's own CPU, making your recording gear more efficient
3. Will usually give you ability to power up condenser microphones - 48 phantom power
4. Will give you ability to play with lower latency
5. Will give you much betweer signal to noise relation than typical PC built-in card
6. Will give you muhc higer resolution (quality) of recorded tracks (24 bit /98 kHz for example insteadof 16bit/44.1 kHz)

So no matter if Your GT is able to work as an interface, it will not solve a lot of situations above. If you plan to spend some time on recordings in the future...even if just for fun, you should definitely buy an interface


Thanks Darius

Sorry I missed this post of yours unsure.gif

I don't mind getting rid of the GT-001 BUT I do like the idea of hardware effects. I'm starting to understand more about why modulation shouldn't really go at the front of an amp. It's tricky with limited budgets to go all hardware. Also when doing a REC take having only two amps will prevent me from getting a sound match close to the instructor which is where plugins and even the GT-001 amp SIMD come into play.
It's such a big subject with so many variables I just want a simple set up for now. One that allows me to get close to an instructor tone for REC takes (software plugins, Amplitude etc) and a simple to use mic setup for my own projects for collabs, creativity workshops etc. It is doing these projects where I will try to improve my recording skills.

To anyone else Reading this topic, particularly Todd and Mertay, would Eleven Rack be an option? What is it's mic preamp likje?

Thanks

QUOTE (Mertay @ Dec 5 2015, 11:05 AM) *
Glad you're liking whats going on as you're using your limited time with good effort smile.gif

The sm57 is a mic. that does need good gain but a more sensitive mic. might pickup too much room/computer noise so I think you're good with the sm57 right now, its a proven mic. so we're cool.

The only problem I see now is input gain. Most cost effective solution would be the presonus preamp I mentioned, could you email boss service if its ok to use an external preamp with the gt001? (ask if it would cause too much noise comapred to using a typical soundcard) If no then I'm afraid we will need a dedicated soundcard.

Here is our current situation;

if we can do (depending on the boss service answer) mic. to preamp to gt001 as soundcard then we're good. We'll get good input level so no noise issues.

But if we can't use something like a presonus preamp this won't work; mic. to gt001 as fx unit to (new) soundcard...reason is since the input gain on gt001 is low, we'll only increase the noisey sound from the gt001.

Best for now is writing and waiting an answer from the service, depending on the answer then we'll figure out the best solution.


Thanks Mertay,

Email sent, should get reply by Tuesday smile.gif

Did the acoustic sound any better?

Cheers

Posted by: Mertay Dec 5 2015, 06:38 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 5 2015, 05:12 PM) *
Thanks Mertay,

Email sent, should get reply by Tuesday smile.gif

Did the acoustic sound any better?

Cheers


Hey Phil, sorry I as I was plaining to keep writing but I got a call and had to catch a bus. Atleast wanted to write the send e-mail part to save some time for you.

Continuing;

Option 2 is buying a new soundcard and hooking the mic. directly to it but then the gt001 can't be used. You can use plug-ins though from reaper which shouldn't need much cpu power.

option 3 is as you mentioned, to be able to use the gt001 with new soundcard we need an amp with fx loop but I seriously don't want you pushing any budget for that...I mean since we're mic.ing now the amp can be any model of blackstar or even a different amp (since we're not using cab. outs anymore), since an amp is the very core of tone I wouldn't want you to buy one thats needed but buy one that you dream of specially when the time is right...

Another reason I'm not really into option 3 is I don't want you dealing with amp eq. To fit a sound for every backing (be it for collab.s or lessons) so much can be done with changing the mic. placement I'd really want you to get familiar with that rather than (atleast for now) tweaking eq's.

I did listen to the acoustic, honestly if we didn't have preamp problems (noise) I don't think it can get much better than that by using an sm57 smile.gif once we solve this preamp issue I'd like you to record again as I think very minor mic. movement would make it sound album-ready perfect smile.gif it might sound raw to you but after making it stereo, add some fx I'm sure you'll like it even more smile.gif

EDIT; Forgot to mention, if you get an affordable presonus type preamp but later buy a soundcard, then the presonus won't be a must. It will be a better preamp than the soundcards we mentioned but not sure how needed it will be+not all soundcard come with non-preamp input options which are usually at the back panel (the roland quadcaputer I mention for example doesn't have that option). Still won't be a problem, there are many options of soundcards out there.

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 5 2015, 08:45 PM

Thanks Mertay,
I'll put this on hold until we hear from Boss.

Cheers

Phil

Posted by: Mertay Dec 5 2015, 09:20 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 5 2015, 07:45 PM) *
Thanks Mertay,
I'll put this on hold until we hear from Boss.

Cheers

Phil


Cool, I thought of asking this for you in some audio engineering forums for a quicker reply but I'm pretty sure we won't get a reply we can trust upon. Atleast hopefully their support will contact their engineers or already been asked this so we'll know what to do next.

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 5 2015, 11:48 PM

Thanks Mertay,
Is really nice that you thought about my limited time but you have limited time too and I really appreciate you giving your time up to help.
I'm loving this recording malarkey

Posted by: Darius Wave Dec 7 2015, 08:24 AM

You don't have to get rid of GT100 smile.gif You can still use it for your favorite tones and plug it the way you're used to or just through analog line out to your new interface. Both - Boss and interfece won't interfere with each other. The difference is (another plus for Mertay) you will be able to connect any type of microphone to the interface with much better preamp then the options you have at the moment. Affordable interfaces like presonus or focusrite have quite descent preamps - it's crutial to get your mic signal amplified with less possible noise level.

As for REC tones....

Don't get into a trap of trying to perfectly clone the tone for each lesson...not by using 100000000 preset - each for particular lesson. Players do not do that in real life. We choose and amp or 2and stick to it. We try to get best clean, crunch and high gain tones from a single amp. It's almost like a marriage. We choose and amp for a life and we get familiar with it's good and bad sides. We "learn each other" to so we are able to deliver the type of tone we need for particular purpose, trying to get it with our "one and only amp". Of course sometimes (for recording CD/album) we borrow amps to get perfect tone for this particular studio suituation, but most of the time it's like above.

Try to split your thinking into those 3 sections
1. How to get best clean tone from the amp I own
2. ....................crunch.............................
3. ....................high gain..........................

You should be able to learn how to tweak your gain and eq knobs to match the tone to the lesson. That;s the whole trick about playing - you have to be "the preset" smile.gif The players generates the tone. Going through tones of simulation does not work in real life. For example. Going to play a gig with quite huge P.A power on open air. When sound engeer will tweak the tone of your miced amp to match it to other instruments, you can't simply switch to a totally different tone (frequency-wise) for another song you'll play). You'll be the one who does not fit to the mix then and sound guy would probably have a lot of different sound issues to fix at the moment, then focusing on you to adjust the tone for each single song smile.gif


So.. I think what should be the target for everyplayer is to find an amp you feel works best for what you play most often, and stick to it. Learn how to make it sound good for different type of tones, learn how to play to make fit something. That's how things work in real life.

The exceptions is Edge from U2. He basiclt uses original, different tone for every song - that's he's characteristic behavior but...it refers to fx mostly. He's root tone stay's quite the same (again - frequency wise)

Posted by: Mertay Dec 7 2015, 10:00 AM

QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Dec 7 2015, 07:24 AM) *
...


Hey Darius, first of all glad marrige is working for you as that marriage example was epic biggrin.gif

Did you ever insert a preamp to a processors input? seems the boss gt001 has only enough input power for direct in and fx loop of an amp so incase you missed we're having noise issue's cause of low level (when using the Phil's amp to sm57 to gt001).

I only chained 2 preamps once in a studio where this stubborn girl insisted she wanted to use an sm57 on some very whispery vocals smile.gif The preamps were trash also so we got a lot of noise, I'm sure it won't be that bad if phil decides to use a preamp on the gt001 (waiting for boss support answer) but I can't be sure how good.

Nothing is decided yet but to use the least amounth of cpu and cost effective this is what I could come up with. Still phil will be the one to decide what kind of recording chain he'll be using but nice that you further mentioned what and how he can work if he gets a soundcard smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 7 2015, 12:35 PM

QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Dec 7 2015, 07:24 AM) *
You don't have to get rid of GT100 smile.gif You can still use it for your favorite tones and plug it the way you're used to or just through analog line out to your new interface. Both - Boss and interfece won't interfere with each other.

As for REC tones....

Don't get into a trap of trying to perfectly clone the tone for each lesson...not by using 100000000 preset - each for particular lesson. Players do not do that in real life. We choose and amp or 2and stick to it. We try to get best clean, crunch and high gain tones from a single amp. It's almost like a marriage. We choose and amp for a life and we get familiar with it's good and bad sides. We "learn each other" to so we are able to deliver the type of tone we need for particular purpose, trying to get it with our "one and only amp". Of course sometimes (for recording CD/album) we borrow amps to get perfect tone for this particular studio suituation, but most of the time it's like above.




So.. I think what should be the target for everyplayer is to find an amp you feel works best for what you play most often, and stick to it. Learn how to make it sound good for different type of tones, learn how to play to make fit something. That's how things work in real life.


Thanks Darius,

I'm pleased I can keep my GT-001, when recording amp with mic would new interface or preamp go before or after gt-001?

Regarding REC, it's going to be hard to get close to all the different amps you instructors have especially as my Blackstar only has one eq knob which is called ISF "Infinite Shape Feature" but hopefully I can tweak with GT001 or plugins. It's nice to get a similar tone. I guess this is the area most students don't think about when buying equipment.

Cheers

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 8 2015, 03:45 PM

Hello again,

Here is my q&a with Boss, I'm not sure if I worded the initial question correctly but I'm sure he would have mentioned noise if he thought it would be an issue. I know Jason said to steer clear of presonus but I think it's the one for me. I like the idea of front mounted controls as it will suit near the rear of my desk. It's around the price I want to pay too so if they're are any others with similar price and front facia please let me know.
Reading http://www-media-presonus.netdna-ssl.com/downloads/products/pdf/TubePreV2_OwnersManual_EN1.pdf it looks like I can use it to plug my electric in too though I don't know if there is any benefit in doing this.

Thank you smile.gif

Email exchange below.

Hello,
I'm using a Boss GT-001 with a Shure SM57. There isn't enough gain in the GT-001 preamp even at +20db. I can't turn my guitar amplifier up any louder without annoying family. Would it be safe to use a Presonus TubePre V2 in front of the GT-001? If not can you suggest a solution please. Maybe a Boss or Roland product.
Thank you
Kind regards
Phil

Hi

Thank you for your email.

The Presonus is a great unit and will be perfect for the job.

Regards

Oliver Davis
Product Support Manager

Posted by: Mertay Dec 8 2015, 08:09 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 8 2015, 02:45 PM) *
...


Excellent! this is very good news smile.gif

Jason mentioned the soundcard of presonus, this preamp is all analog (different kind of product) so we have no problem of any compatibility. I remember 1-2 members here using this or similar preamp, you can make a thread or make a search but I remember they commented very positivly about it.

If the price is ok for you thats great, there is a brand called ART also well known its half the price but the presonus is better quality and better for future usage. For example, for any reason if you want a soundcard in the future this preamp can be used with it as its even better than the ones that comes with soundcards.

Connection will be like this; sm57 with xlr cable to Presonus preamp to (with xlr cable) boss gt001 (used as soundcard). If you want gt001 sound directly (like you used to use) there is no problem.

So we can mic. the amp well+use boss gt001's fx...

Darius's suggestion is very different from mine, but then we can't use the boss gt001 if we want to mic. the amp. Before we move forward do you understand the difference in suggestions? I'd like you be clear on whats going on so feel free to ask smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 8 2015, 08:22 PM

Thanks Mertay,
Yes I understand smile.gif
Is there any benefit, if I want to record without the amp, to putting my guitar into the preamp before the gt-001?
Thanks

Posted by: Mertay Dec 8 2015, 08:33 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 8 2015, 07:22 PM) *
Thanks Mertay,
Yes I understand smile.gif
Is there any benefit, if I want to record without the amp, to putting my guitar into the preamp before the gt-001?
Thanks


I'd expect it to be but nothing huge, the drive on the preamp will add very gentle saturation/compresson but not quite like your pedal. Think of it for drive thats ment for clean sounds. Also increaseing the input gain from the preamp might add some sensitivity feel even though its driving something digital. Would be worth to experiment smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 8 2015, 09:08 PM

And what about the guitar>Presonus>Hotbird>amp and guitar>presonus>Hotbird>GT-001?

This must be one of the biggest topics in the history of the Gear section, we should have a medal for endurance smile.gif

Thanks Mertay.

Posted by: Mertay Dec 8 2015, 10:02 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 8 2015, 08:08 PM) *
And what about the guitar>Presonus>Hotbird>amp and guitar>presonus>Hotbird>GT-001?

This must be one of the biggest topics in the history of the Gear section, we should have a medal for endurance smile.gif

Thanks Mertay.


biggrin.gif

guitar>Presonus>Hotbird>amp; I don't think you'll need this (hotbird can get pretty aggressive) but if you would want to use a low-output guitar for shred yeah then the presonus can act like a clean booster (as if the pickups on the guitar were higher output) but the presonus should be driven very low. There is no switch though so you'll have to deal with the cableing.

guitar>presonus>Hotbird>GT-001; Same as the above, basically you're pre-driving the hotbird to make it work hotter. The signal strenght then depends on the hotbird as how strong you want it to hit either the amp or gt001

I never tried it though, remind this to me once we nail some tones with the hotbird smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 8 2015, 10:47 PM

Thanks Mertay,

Sorry for the questions but I have a thirst for knowledge rolleyes.gif

Plenty to think about, thanks. I understand why I "shouldn't" use Presonus with Hotbird wink.gif

Thanks again

Phil smile.gif

Posted by: Mertay Dec 8 2015, 11:10 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 8 2015, 09:47 PM) *
Thanks Mertay,

Sorry for the questions but I have a thirst for knowledge rolleyes.gif


No problem keep them coming and update me when you get your hands on the presonus smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 8 2015, 11:16 PM

Will do smile.gif

Posted by: Todd Simpson Dec 8 2015, 11:54 PM

Todd here! As you know I LOVE my Eleven Rack as it sounds good recorded direct, sounds good going through an amp/cab and lets you record clean tone while you are recording a tone with an 11 rack patch to another track so you can add a plugin later.

It can act as a direct/clean recording interface for guitar input or mic input as it has one XLR jack on the front with a full mic preamp inside. So you can run your mic directly in to the 11 rack. For about the same price as a decent audio interface, you can get an audio interface with a guitar/bass/vocal processor built in it with presets for all of the above. The flexibility of the unit is part of why I kept it and sold my 16 channel presonus sound interface. I just never used all those channels. You should be able to fine a used one for about $300 U.S. You can find one brand new on ebay for not much more with pro tools still in the shrink wrap smile.gif

When I use the 11 rack with an amp, I run it to a power amp then the cab. I have a tube preamp (a soldano clone) that I run in the fx loop of the 11 rack. So all I need is a clean power amp and a cab. I have a 4x12 randall. I have not had good experiences with 4x8 or 4x10 cabs as they never seem to have enough bass for me. But I rarely use the cab for recording to be honest.

At one point I was recording with pro tools so that I could get..

1.)dry guitar
2.)fx guitar
3.)Microphone on guitar cabinet

on three separate tracks. I would then apply TH2 to the dry track. After a while I found this was just pointless. I could get what I wanted in a mix just with the dry tone and Th2. I mostly use the sounds in the 11 rack for practice sessions, and live teaching sessions. For recording, I still like recording dry and using plugins. It gives sooooo much more flexibility during the mix. smile.gif

Todd

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 9 2015, 08:20 AM

Thanks Todd,
I've certainly thought about that kind of set up. For now though I'm going to stick with what I have until I get better at both playing and recording/mixing. I like my GT001 and am still getting to grips with it so I don't want to be learning a whole lot of new stuff as it keeps my fingers off the fretboard too much. Even just sorting this mic cost me a lot of practise time sad.gif The Elevenrack goes for around £300 ($450) here in the UK with the expansion pack but I've seen brand new for around £500.
Thanks for your input though Todd, It's all in my head for further down the line smile.gif
Cheers buddy

Posted by: jstcrsn Dec 9 2015, 01:22 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 8 2015, 03:45 PM) *
I know Jason said

I could be wrong , but I think you have my name wrong . JSTCRSN stands for just cursin or just crusin cause thats how my practice goes . sometimes I think i sound awesome , other times I want to give my guitar flying lessons cool.gif . "Cursin" is what everyone sort of abbreviated it to , so that is what people usually use . Of course if I am not who you were referring to , I will feel like a douche and will start cursin

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 9 2015, 01:54 PM

Sorry jstcrsn, please accept my apologies. Somewhere along the line I thought you were the bloke that does the cartoons (Jason Nocera), how and why I just can't explain.
Sorry unsure.gif
Phil

Posted by: jstcrsn Dec 10 2015, 07:03 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 9 2015, 01:54 PM) *
Sorry jstcrsn, please accept my apologies. Somewhere along the line I thought you were the bloke that does the cartoons (Jason Nocera), how and why I just can't explain.
Sorry unsure.gif
Phil

Please share

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 10 2015, 10:22 PM

QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Dec 10 2015, 06:03 PM) *
Please share


See my cartoon in my sig? The name on top of it, right hand side smile.gif

OK here we go again, sorry Mertay rolleyes.gif

Mic position as last time, between centre and edge. Acoustic about 8 inches from 12th fret. No reverb on amp. Eq middle. Output around 80db. Presonus Drive zero, Gain around 3 o clock. GT001 mic lvl at +7db. There is a meter in the display of the GT001, I thought it was for something else but the thing is moving now smile.gif. The VU on the Presonus is hardly moving though.

I was short on time so it was a little rush but good fun smile.gif

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/bridge-clean-single-coil

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/neck-clean-single-coil

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/bridge-clean-humbucker

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/neck-clean-humbucker

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/bridge-dirty-humbucker

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/neck-dirty-humbucker

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/bridge-v-dirty-humbucker

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/neck-v-dirty-humbucker

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/acoustic-12th-fret-1

Cheers for all advice smile.gif

Posted by: Todd Simpson Dec 11 2015, 01:35 AM

Happy to help smile.gif I'm sure you can work things out with your current rig. Some great feedback in this thread!

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 9 2015, 03:20 AM) *
Thanks Todd,
I've certainly thought about that kind of set up. For now though I'm going to stick with what I have until I get better at both playing and recording/mixing. I like my GT001 and am still getting to grips with it so I don't want to be learning a whole lot of new stuff as it keeps my fingers off the fretboard too much. Even just sorting this mic cost me a lot of practise time sad.gif The Elevenrack goes for around £300 ($450) here in the UK with the expansion pack but I've seen brand new for around £500.
Thanks for your input though Todd, It's all in my head for further down the line smile.gif
Cheers buddy


Posted by: Mertay Dec 11 2015, 08:30 AM

Nailed it! smile.gif

I'm hearing a huge difference compared to without presonus I'm sure you are too smile.gif You can pass after 3 o'clock on it but not much cause then it will probably start to get noisy, if you want to tinker the balance a bit more I guess the lesser gain of boss and more of presonus the better but always try getting the lowest noise possible (you can check the noise by not connecting any gear or cables). I didn't hear any problematic noise issue this time though, recording sounds fine I'm happy biggrin.gif

The solo balance of guitars seem good considering you can increase the amp output a tiny bit more. We can esitmate the current mic. position is the most further from the center you'll ever use use (good with single coil-can be a bit closer with humbuckers) keep in mind for soloing over lessons/backing tracks you'll sometimes need more clarity and then you can slide the mic. closer to the center. Why not record your next lesson like this? I sure the teacher feedback will be helpful too.

Also, you'll notice an inst. button on the presonus. When engaged you can direct plug your guitar to it and connect it with a line cable to your boss gt001. Give it a shot (with lesser gain) there is a good chance the guitar might feel a bit more lively.

The 80hz button removes the deep rumble-like sounds from the amp or even vocal (only use it for mic.ed recording) if needed during recording. Could be useful to add some clarity for something like your humbucker clean recordings you shared above. Keep in mind, since you'll record with this setting we can't un-do it though I dought it will ever be a problem so nothing to be scared of either. Un-tick the other 2 buttons as you won't be needing them for now.

As for the drive knob, when recording acoustic or vocal its ok to add but very unnoticably. Its there for more of a feeling thing really up to you wether to use or not. On electric guitar though it will be more forgiving, feel free to test maybe can help when you don't want to increase the amps volume much.

The acoustic sounds great smile.gif Really, I don't know if it can get overall better cause if it can it only needs small mic. position adjustments and I'd have to be in the room to figure that out smile.gif The noise is a bit more noticeable compared to electric but thats normal as we're using a dynamic mic. (or that is maybe the computer fan noise or a heater in the room?)

Feel free to share test recordings, I believe you already handled the basics so your questions will be related to experience from now on smile.gif Lets not rush into the pedal setting if you want? try getting more feedback from your instructor on recording so we can enhance the details if needed. As always feel free to ask anything needed smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 11 2015, 09:42 AM

Thanks Mertay,
I am really pleased with the outcome. It sounded great to me too.
I guess this thread will calm down a little bit now but I will post any further questions here to keep it all together. Hopefully others can benefit from this.
Thanks again Mertay you have been awesome \m/ smile.gif

Posted by: Mertay Dec 11 2015, 09:54 AM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 11 2015, 08:42 AM) *
Thanks Mertay,
I am really pleased with the outcome. It sounded great to me too.
I guess this thread will calm down a little bit now but I will post any trekkers questions here to keep it all together. Hopefully others can benefit from this.
Thanks again Mertay you have been awesome \m/ smile.gif


No problem smile.gif I'll be waiting for when you'll want to start adjusting the pedal biggrin.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 11 2015, 10:04 AM

That day will come but I need to get some practise done or Gab will want to put me in detention smile.gif
FYI the mic was about one inch from the grille. On acoustic the is no heater in the room. Mic was pointing away from computer which only has one 120mm fan on cpu. Maybe I left the amp on and it is hum from that as last recording was full gain.
Cheers buddy
Phil

Posted by: Mertay Dec 11 2015, 10:26 AM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 11 2015, 09:04 AM) *
That day will come but I need to get some practise done or Gab will want to put me in detention smile.gif
FYI the mic was about one inch from the grille. On acoustic the is no heater in the room. Mic was pointing away from computer which only has one 120mm fan on cpu. Maybe I left the amp on and it is him from that as last recording was full gain.
Cheers buddy
Phil


No biggie, we're trying to match 2 devices that increase gain at the same time (presonus vs gt001) so until figuring out the better blend between their gain settings some noise is always ok+ also analog by nature always have some noise to it. Its the little things now that will make the difference but sure take your time the tones are already cool smile.gif

Posted by: Todd Simpson Dec 14 2015, 09:53 AM

That's part of the process to be sure! Noise is part of recording. Learning to minimize it is a good thing to work on. I think you mentioned some sort of gate/suppressor previously? Having a good gate is very handy for keeping noise under control smile.gif Finding the perfect setting takes time so that it doesn't kill your sustain.

QUOTE (Mertay @ Dec 11 2015, 05:26 AM) *
No biggie, we're trying to match 2 devices that increase gain at the same time (presonus vs gt001) so until figuring out the better blend between their gain settings some noise is always ok+ also analog by nature always have some noise to it. Its the little things now that will make the difference but sure take your time the tones are already cool smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 17 2015, 10:27 PM

I've just experimented with the mic pointing centre of cone but angled 30 degrees from perpendicular, sounds nice and bright and clear but I think the Hotbird helps with that too wink.gif.

Will get some sounds to you ASAP.

Posted by: Mertay Dec 17 2015, 10:45 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 17 2015, 09:27 PM) *
I've just experimented with the mic pointing centre of cone but angled 30 degrees from perpendicular, sounds nice and bright and clear but I think the Hotbird helps with that too wink.gif.

Will get some sounds to you ASAP.


Yeah its always better to work with the dry sound as good as possible cause pedals, reverb, eq etc. can only enhance.

After finding a good spot, record over some backing tracks too. Its common the solo sound not being as good as it is with backings, I always do the detail adjustments over backings so it can cut through but still sound warm. Then add pedals, reverb, eq etc. and do the process again...

Soon later I get used to that backing adjusted solo sound and don't change settings much. My pedal settings rarly change and cause I'm used to such sound, I can adapt to (software) amp changes very quick too when testing stuff...such maturity becomes sort of enhancing a signature sound experience rather than jump from one sound to another but it takes time to start happening.


Posted by: Phil66 Dec 17 2015, 11:09 PM

Thanks Mertay
I don't actually like playing dry, I find the tone itself makes me play different, maybe that's something else that comes with time. I find the cleaner the tone the more "sensible" I play, the dirtier the tone, the more "crazy" I play so I like to get the character of the tone right first, I don't mind making single changes but I don't like recording dry and adding everything after.
Cheers

Posted by: Mertay Dec 17 2015, 11:49 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 17 2015, 10:09 PM) *
Thanks Mertay
I don't actually like playing dry, I find the tone itself makes me play different, maybe that's something else that comes with time. I find the cleaner the tone the more "sensible" I play, the dirtier the tone, the more "crazy" I play so I like to get the character of the tone right first, I don't mind making single changes but I don't like recording dry and adding everything after.
Cheers


Oh no I ment something different, I also almost never play dry. Thing is if your dry tone (both distorted and clean) is good, then the wet will sound amazing smile.gif

In reality we adjust everything according to the dry (amped) tone, say if our dry tone is too trebly then we decrease the high's from the pedal and then we'll probably get a muddy sound no matter how hard we try to compansate. Guitar specific fx is never designed to fix a problem but to try make the amp sound simply better.

Its actually good your blackstar has so less knobs to adjust and moving the mic. has so much role on tonal balance. Say if your amp had zillions of eq knobs on it then adjusting this dry tone would be very complicated for you (specially when adding pedals to the chain). Thats a reason why I didn't want you to rush into a new amp, atleast till you get a bit comfortable on tone shaping.

As said record with the dry sound only to listen your amp to figure if it sounds balanced enough inside backing tracks. Limit yourself with knobs on amp, mic. positioning and the level fader in the DAW. It might take a day or 2 but when you'll be certain that these adjustments reach their limit of tonal balance (best they can do), then we'll kick in the pedal and/or gt001 as processor to make it sound amazing smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 18 2015, 08:22 AM

QUOTE (Mertay @ Dec 17 2015, 10:49 PM) *
Oh no I ment something different, I also almost never play dry. Thing is if your dry tone (both distorted and clean) is good, then the wet will sound amazing smile.gif

In reality we adjust everything according to the dry (amped) tone, say if our dry tone is too trebly then we decrease the high's from the pedal and then we'll probably get a muddy sound no matter how hard we try to compansate. Guitar specific fx is never designed to fix a problem but to try make the amp sound simply better.

Its actually good your blackstar has so less knobs to adjust and moving the mic. has so much role on tonal balance. Say if your amp had zillions of eq knobs on it then adjusting this dry tone would be very complicated for you (specially when adding pedals to the chain). Thats a reason why I didn't want you to rush into a new amp, atleast till you get a bit comfortable on tone shaping.

As said record with the dry sound only to listen your amp to figure if it sounds balanced enough inside backing tracks. Limit yourself with knobs on amp, mic. positioning and the level fader in the DAW. It might take a day or 2 but when you'll be certain that these adjustments reach their limit of tonal balance (best they can do), then we'll kick in the pedal and/or gt001 as processor to make it sound amazing smile.gif


Cheers Mertay,

I did try the pedal last night, it's pretty versatile as far as I can see smile.gif

Cheers


Posted by: Phil66 Dec 18 2015, 10:00 PM

Ok folks, here is a little test. Guitar was the PRS Ace, on bridge pickup, SM57 placed as in picture, settings on amp and pedal as in picture. The playing is just noodling. I was switching pedal on and off. The mid edge knob is switched in on the pedal.
If there's anything you want to hear, just let me know the changes you want or if you want one knob adjusting from minimum to maximum in small increments. I've done it all in pictures as it seems the easiest way smile.gif

Thanks folks,

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/test-18122015






Posted by: Mertay Dec 18 2015, 10:56 PM

Most OD pedals perform too weak on the clean setuped amp but the hotbird seems to be doing a pretty good job, nice! smile.gif I'm also enjoying the overall vibe smile.gif

I'd probably slide the mic. a little closer to the center to open up the cleans while decrease highs from the pedals tone knob (or maybe mid. knob since I have no idea which freq.s it changes). A personal thing (definitly not a rule) but I like to keep the overall tonal balance between the dirty and clean tone close so its a bit more comfortable for the listener. Switching on the pedal rises the sound level so we already get enough impact when needed.

When you have time, I want to hear the amps od selected but gain low + pedal on (like how ace demo's it) smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 18 2015, 11:23 PM

Thanks Mertay,
This was a starting point and also earlier in this thread you said you wanted to hear the capabilities of the Hotbird so I thought I'd give you the contrast of the cleanish amp and dirty pedal. The mid edge knob seems to work like the tone on a Big Muff, it gets thinner in the middle of the turn of the knob.
The mic is pointing at the centre of the speaker, it's a 4x8 cab wink.gif
FYI this is what Ace told me when I said I was getting Hotbird number 8
Wow great!!! I think I only signed 10 of them. Very cool.
Tips:
For distortion sounds on clean amps turn the volume down and gain up
For overdrive on driven amps turn the gain down and volume up.
Use the mid edge control to get tube screamer type sounds.
Use the bass lift to add what is lost when you use it to drive already driven amps. (Distortions of drives can sometimes thin things a bit if you know what I mean)
Use the cream knob to compress the fuzz and the volume to bring it up when you use a lot of cream
Check out vintage and modern modes. Green clipping - vintage British sound - iron maiden, Judas Priest. Blue - my sound . Orange - more Usa style rectified.
So much variation and really great hand built quality. I think you will love it.
Cheers
Ace

Bass lift only works in vintage mode I think.

Hopefully this will help you to suggest things that you would like to hear wink.gif
Cheers buddy

Posted by: Todd Simpson Dec 18 2015, 11:46 PM

In the picture it looks like the mic is pointed slightly "off axis" instead of directly in to the center of the cone. Is it too bright when pointed directly at the center? I like the tone you have so far smile.gif Mertay has give some great advice! Given your gear, it looks like you can use the head as clean, then channel 1 on you pedal as rythm and channel 2 as lead and bingo, you have all three channels smile.gif

For folks who don't know much about the pedal, here is a playthrough vid. It's a boutique pedal with a huge range of sounds. In your setup, your sorta using the pedal as your preamp/od/dist chain as if it were a two channel head then mostly using your blackstar as power amp. seems to work well as it gives you a lot more tone control by using the pedal.

Todd






QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 18 2015, 06:23 PM) *
Thanks Mertay,
This was a starting point and also earlier in this thread you said you wanted to hear the capabilities of the Hotbird so I thought I'd give you the contrast of the cleanish amp and dirty pedal. The mid edge knob seems to work like the tone on a Big Muff, it gets thinner in the middle of the turn of the knob.
The mic is pointing at the centre of the speaker, it's a 4x8 cab wink.gif
FYI this is what Ace told me when I said I was getting Hotbird number 8
Wow great!!! I think I only signed 10 of them. Very cool.
Tips:
For distortion sounds on clean amps turn the volume down and gain up
For overdrive on driven amps turn the gain down and volume up.
Use the mid edge control to get tube screamer type sounds.
Use the bass lift to add what is lost when you use it to drive already driven amps. (Distortions of drives can sometimes thin things a bit if you know what I mean)
Use the cream knob to compress the fuzz and the volume to bring it up when you use a lot of cream
Check out vintage and modern modes. Green clipping - vintage British sound - iron maiden, Judas Priest. Blue - my sound . Orange - more Usa style rectified.
So much variation and really great hand built quality. I think you will love it.
Cheers
Ace

Bass lift only works in vintage mode I think.

Hopefully this will help you to suggest things that you would like to hear wink.gif
Cheers buddy

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 19 2015, 12:05 AM

Thanks Todd
Maybe I should show a picture of the mic from above too. It is pointing at the centre but it is angled. For some reason it is less bright when pointing to the centre and perpendicular.
As far as my knowledge allows, I don't think I can use the pedal/amp setup as a the channel because one of the channels on the pedal is analogue bfuzz and the other analogue overdrive. It's not like it can be used as clean/overdrive/distortion but I guess the channels is possible:)

Cheers Todd

Phil

Posted by: Mertay Dec 19 2015, 12:14 AM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 18 2015, 10:23 PM) *
Thanks Mertay,
This was a starting point and also earlier in this thread you said you wanted to hear the capabilities of the Hotbird so I thought I'd give you the contrast of the cleanish amp and dirty pedal. The mid edge knob seems to work like the tone on a Big Muff, it gets thinner in the middle of the turn of the knob.
The mic is pointing at the centre of the speaker, it's a 4x8 cab wink.gif
FYI this is what Ace told me when I said I was getting Hotbird number 8
Wow great!!! I think I only signed 10 of them. Very cool.
Tips:
For distortion sounds on clean amps turn the volume down and gain up
For overdrive on driven amps turn the gain down and volume up.
Use the mid edge control to get tube screamer type sounds.
Use the bass lift to add what is lost when you use it to drive already driven amps. (Distortions of drives can sometimes thin things a bit if you know what I mean)
Use the cream knob to compress the fuzz and the volume to bring it up when you use a lot of cream
Check out vintage and modern modes. Green clipping - vintage British sound - iron maiden, Judas Priest. Blue - my sound . Orange - more Usa style rectified.
So much variation and really great hand built quality. I think you will love it.
Cheers
Ace

Bass lift only works in vintage mode I think.

Hopefully this will help you to suggest things that you would like to hear wink.gif
Cheers buddy


They are all good advice (try them!) and I think I know now what he ment by the mid knob. Also how is the fuzz?
I'd also like to hear that too smile.gif

I'm sure in a short time your ears will start to memorise what each knob does to the sound, then you'll be able to adjust tones you hear in your head with is an amazing experience. Till then experiment with fun! smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 19 2015, 12:21 AM

Let me know what you want Mertay,
I am at your disposal wink.gif
I personally think that the Hotbird is the answer to many guitarist's needs.
Cheers buddy

Posted by: Todd Simpson Dec 19 2015, 01:20 AM

You'd need to use the overdrive on the pedal as RYTHM channel and the fuzz channel on the pedal as the LEAD channel and the amp itself as the CLEAN channel. smile.gif


QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 18 2015, 07:05 PM) *
Thanks Todd
Maybe I should show a picture of the mic from above too. It is pointing at the centre but it is angled. For some reason it is less bright when pointing to the centre and perpendicular.
As far as my knowledge allows, I don't think I can use the pedal/amp setup as a the channel because one of the channels on the pedal is analogue bfuzz and the other analogue overdrive. It's not like it can be used as clean/overdrive/distortion but I guess the channels is possible:)

Cheers Todd

Phil


Posted by: Phil66 Dec 19 2015, 10:51 AM

Thanks Todd,
By the way, you can use the fuzz and overdrive together too wink.gif bit much for me though.
Cheers

Posted by: Mertay Dec 19 2015, 07:10 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 18 2015, 11:21 PM) *
Let me know what you want Mertay,
I am at your disposal wink.gif


biggrin.gif

Ok, I've never boosted a fuzz with an overdrive and curious how it sounds smile.gif if its too crazy, decrease the drive on the overdrive.

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 19 2015, 07:15 PM

QUOTE (Mertay @ Dec 19 2015, 06:10 PM) *
biggrin.gif

Ok, I've never boosted a fuzz with an overdrive and curious how it sounds smile.gif if its too crazy, decrease the drive on the overdrive.


No problem,
Cleanish amp or driven? What o clock settings for the Hotbird knobs would you like to start with?
smile.gif

Posted by: Mertay Dec 19 2015, 08:17 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 19 2015, 06:15 PM) *
No problem,
Cleanish amp or driven? What o clock settings for the Hotbird knobs would you like to start with?
smile.gif


hehe smile.gif lets keep the amp clean as for clock I'll leave it to you biggrin.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 19 2015, 09:16 PM

OK, here the amp and mic is the same as the last recording, the o clock settings are as pictured.
It goes amp ---> amp + EarBender --->amp + EarBender + Afterburner.

I personally think it needs a lot of experimenting to use both sides of the pedal at once, or maybe it's too much for my little amp. I'm really enjoying it though, I think it has transformed my amp's sound. My favourite side is the Afterburner smile.gif

What I will do next, if it's ok with you, is go to the afterburner and select one of the knobs, not volume, set it to minimum, play a little then turn it up a bit, play a little then turn it up a bit. Some of them don't do what I expected and that isn't a complaint, the mid edge knob seems to go more trebly as you go anti clockwise. I can also demo the different clipping settings for you. Some of the differences are very subtle to my ears maybe you will hear more.

I've just asked Valerio what the switch underneath the "TOP" knob does. This was his answer.
"hello Phil,
the switch under the "top" knob change the way of filter the signal. It change the responce on the mid frequencies and the compression of the sound.

the switch under "mid edge" turns it on or off, so this is just a bypass of this filter. the "mid edge" knob work only on the afterburner, so not on earbender. The difference turning it on (the switch up) is very subtle because are just few db more on a frequency.
The knob changes this frequency, so when this control is activated you should hear a little differences rotating the knob, adding a little bit more high or bass frequencies. you can hear more differences with low gain setup.

have a nice evening"
Valerio
VDL Professional Analogics



Anyway here it is. If you have anything you would like to hear just ask. Just don't ask for some good playing laugh.gif



https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/test-19122015-amber

Thought you might like to see the inside of the "Hotbirb"[sic] wink.gif


Posted by: Mertay Dec 19 2015, 11:05 PM

Whoa, that tone is burning! and the playing not so bad either biggrin.gif

The earbender is definitly an aggressive-friendly overdrive, not a lot of overdrives can sound so amp-like without jumping to distortion territory. For example, fulltones OCD is very famous for being aggresive but to my ears when its pushed the character turns to distortion. The earbender however is still amp-like.

And yeah both sides working is a bit extreme, but still usable!! Don't mind the added noise you'll never know when you'll want that smashed sound. Fuzz always reminds me of the peak of an instrumental blues ballad, no song specific but maybe its something I hear in my head that would work with big chords and orchestration.

Fuzz has a giant feel to it, I strongly advise using it for distorted+soulful melodic solos for future GMC recordings. Since you're still developing your techniq and not doing fast scale run stuff (as far as I know), it will help you for melodic impact when needed. For anything else that needs distortion seems the ear bender alone can do alot smile.gif

As for the modes being subtle, its really a guitar or amp (and how the amp is setuped) thing that might make the difference. I mean if we'd used it on someone elses amp+guitar it would sound a lot different. Also it doesn't always have to be obvious, sometimes its the little things that makes the difference.

The tough thing about the setting such a pedal is even when you memorise by ear what each knobs do, they also react to each others settings also. I mean on one setting where the mid knob is lowered might be awesome but when mid knob is increased might not be so good.

But what we can do is since you regularly record for lessons, collab.s etc. most helpful would be sharing your tone (with or without backing track) with me or any member here. Best questions/ideas always comes from real-world usage situations, you seem to already started figuring out the pedal so probably the most helpful think would be is getting into detail for usage.

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 19 2015, 11:48 PM

Thanks Mertay,
Very informative. I love this pedal and I think its potential is huge. Whatever you want me to record with this pedal just let me know. It's very very versatile and I think you (Mertay) will get some good knowledge from my recordings even though the playing is terrible. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Mertay Dec 20 2015, 12:00 AM

eheh cool smile.gif yeah and you should feel free to share experiments here too when you feel like recording smile.gif

It really takes time, I have my friends jd9 next to me now and it took me 2 full days (with lots of amp software) to sqeeze it enough to feel I have total control over it. And that pedal only has 4 knobs, if I had something like a hotbird probably friends would start knocking at my door to check if I'm still alive biggrin.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 20 2015, 12:21 AM

laugh.gif Mertay,
I think even though it's not cheap, this pedal is awesome, it does the job of at least three other pedals.
Let me know what settings you would like and I'll turn the knobs for you wink.gif
Cheers

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 20 2015, 02:05 PM

Hello,

I've done a quick reference test for you. I've recorded some noodling on the fuzz channel, no compression, fuzz at 12 o clock, TOP at 11 o clock.
The first is on the Blackstar with fairly clean setting and the second is on a Vox Lil Night Train with similar settings but I used the "thick" channel which cuts out the EQ. No reverb on the amp so I didn't add any afterwards. Played on a Mexican HSH Strat on single coil bridge setting.

I've also found a neat little trick. I don't like recording to a backing track using my amp as the mic'd sound comes through the speakers and it bugs me. I had my GT-001 in tuner mode with output muted, this is great, it still allows the mic'd sound to be recorded but it doesn't come through the monitors smile.gif I couldn't find a way to do this in Reaper so it's a great discovery, maybe some other can try with their interfaces wink.gif

First of each pair is without the Hotbird so you can hear the different way the Hotbird interacts with the amp.

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/random-sunday-noodling-blackstar-no-pedal

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/random-sunday-noodling-blackstar



https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/random-sunday-noodling-vox-no-pedal

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/random-sunday-noodling-vox

Posted by: Mertay Dec 20 2015, 03:01 PM

Yeah when there is a second sound source in the room either you must divide the backing and guitar (like you did) or use isolating headphones and listen everything from computer. Good that you maganed to mute reaper, the headphone trick woks well but isn't comfortable on the long run and the better isolating headphones can be expensive.

The tones you get feels familiar to me that I can't put my finger on but this is a strong indication for me as whats going on is good smile.gif still though the blackstar sounds a bit bright to me and could use a little bottom end (the vox sounded more balanced). How does the blackstar sound in the room compared to mic.ed?


Posted by: Phil66 Dec 20 2015, 04:02 PM

Thanks Mertay,
I'll have a listen later at the recorded and room difference.
For some reason the "Vox no pedal" SoundCloud hasn't embedded but the link is there, did you listen to it?
I think it's strange that setting the GT-001 to mute still allows the guitar to be recorded. If you are using the GT-001 as effects it doesn't send a signal to Reaper. I'm not complaining but it seems odd. It has actually put me off getting a new interface in case I can't do that because I don't really like headphones.
When you say " more balanced " in what way do you mean "balanced"?
Thank you for your continued help Mertay smile.gif

Posted by: Mertay Dec 20 2015, 04:30 PM

I'll check into reaper later to see what buttons needed to be pushed, maybe inserting a plug-in (like an eq but only using it to decrease volume) that mutes the sound can work?

Yeah I did notice the link, as for balance its a frequency thing (both lows and highs can be heard) but instead of going technical ( biggrin.gif ) lets say this reflects to how individual strings can be heard as you strum. Like, I can hear the low E string much better on the vox compared to the blackstar but the vox isn't muddy.

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 20 2015, 08:41 PM

I've just listened to the Blackstar, it's not far off the same in the room as it is mic'ed, I think it is a little more trebly through the mic. My ears and tone memory aren't that good yet, I tend to forget how it sounded pretty much right away unsure.gif biggrin.gif Pluse I'm hearing it through two 4x8 cabs in the room and only some Tannoy 402 like http://www.gear4music.com/Recording-and-Computers/Tannoy-Reveal-402-Studio-Monitor-Single/WSF?origin=product-ads&utm_campaign=*PLA+Shop+-+All+Products&utm_medium=vertical_search&network=google&adgroup=**All+Products&merchant_id=1279443&product_id=42495d1&product_country=GB&product_partition_id=24518203694&gclid=Cj0KEQiAwNmzBRCaw9uR3dGt950BEiQAnbK960Q3g7Dfyg2beGuXqhah7uZ9mhLPHUMyR2-w5PQEntgaAukv8P8HAQ from the PC.

What I'm going to do next, is actually play something I can remember rather than noodling and then play it back through the monitors while I play it on the amp just to see how close it is. At least if it is close to the sound of the source we have a good reference point.

FYI, the thick channel on the Vox is less sparkly than the bright channel by quite a bit.

Anyway, got to practice now, I'm falling way behind with my lessons for Gab but at least this isn't a waste of time, it's good stuff to learn and I enjoy going through the amp more than the PC smile.gif

We haven't even looked at the "drive" knob on the PreSonus yet blink.gif

Thank you Mertay, I really appreciate your help.

Posted by: Mertay Dec 20 2015, 08:58 PM

hehee yeah listening from one source to another can need some getting used to smile.gif

Sometimes cause of the room reflections a sound source can sound more bassy, thats why its better to use headphones for quick referencing how the mic. is picking the sound. Even though the blackstar has no eq and if mic. placement won't be enough don't worry worst case I'll prepare a plug-in eq preset for you and it should solve any balance issue's.

Yeah I have a feeling you might like that drive knob on the presonus with subtle setting, I use something like that on software which is barely noticeable but has a nice feel thing going on. No need to rush though things are already sounding better and better as you share smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 20 2015, 09:06 PM

I'm starting to really like the Earbender now smile.gif I'm thinking, I might try to put the recorded sound back through the Cab, I think the cables for the monitors are the same type. This might tell me more about the reproduction in real terms. I guess it's hard anyway because everyone's monitors are different rolleyes.gif
There is some buzzing on this track, I'm not sure if it is the cone or something else but I've put it here anyway smile.gif

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/doo-doo-da-da-da-dah-dah

Posted by: Mertay Dec 20 2015, 10:38 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 20 2015, 08:06 PM) *
I'm starting to really like the Earbender now smile.gif I'm thinking, I might try to put the recorded sound back through the Cab, I think the cables for the monitors are the same type. This might tell me more about the reproduction in real terms. I guess it's hard anyway because everyone's monitors are different rolleyes.gif
There is some buzzing on this track, I'm not sure if it is the cone or something else but I've put it here anyway smile.gif

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/doo-doo-da-da-da-dah-dah


That won't work smile.gif cause cab.s though are speakers are very colored speakers and an important aspect of amp tone. It will be like you'll re-color the sound even more hwere speakers/headphones are flat/neutral.

Which amp is that?

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 21 2015, 08:09 AM

Thanks Mertay,
That's the Blackstar wink.gif
Cheers

Posted by: Mertay Dec 21 2015, 10:37 AM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 21 2015, 07:09 AM) *
Thanks Mertay,
That's the Blackstar wink.gif
Cheers


It sounds more balanced, maybe its the tone knob on the pedal affecting it. When you have the time, why not share short recordings of tone all right-middle-all left settings?

With my pedals the tone knob is always the least touched. I adjust it to my amp then use eq's on amp instead of the pedals tone knob, maybe we need to find a sweetspot for it.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Dec 21 2015, 07:49 PM

Keep in mind that it's a 4x8 and not a 4x12 so it's going to struggle a bit on bass, especially when close mic'ed. if you like the "room tone" you can always add a "room mic" as the room itself may be creating bass reflections that are not present directly in front of the cone. This is common trick in recording studios but a bit tougher at home as it requires two mics (one on the cone and one in the room) and at least two channels of input on your audio interface.

Todd

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 21 2015, 03:09 AM) *
Thanks Mertay,
That's the Blackstar wink.gif
Cheers


Posted by: Mertay Dec 21 2015, 09:09 PM

QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Dec 21 2015, 06:49 PM) *
Keep in mind that it's a 4x8 and not a 4x12...


Good point, adding bass is hard and probably not comfortable for Phil at this point (worst case I'll make an eq preset) so to balance things tameing the high freq.s makes the most sense for now.

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 21 2015, 10:11 PM

Thank you gentlemen smile.gif

If you want to hear someone who can play go through the same head and cab as me you can watch this, I don't know what the Anderton's boys had been drinking beforehand but it may give you a better idea of the cab and head capabilities. I know YouTube sound isn't the best for reference but it may help relatively smile.gif

Cheers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VSDsUw4Sc4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcMT67VFy1Y


Posted by: Mertay Dec 21 2015, 11:26 PM

Cool it did help smile.gif

When mixing guitars on albums its quite common to cut the lowest freq.s not only to open room for kick, bass guitar to fit but also musically get rid of unwanted rumble. These cab.s seem to do this for you which is good...

They also have highest highs which is cool so say a clean fender can sound sparkly or pinch harmonics on distortion can be noticed, but in return the mian thing to be careful is to keep it still warm sounding.

My guess is when mic.ed you don't have to worry much about adding bass from the amp eq as the cab.s character will balance it easily but you have to be careful to keep the highs warm enough.

With the pedal the earbenders "top" and the afterburners "tone" is your friend for this. After you setup the amp clean (from clean or drive channel...simply your desired cleanest sound), arrange the drive amounths from pedal then decrease their highs to get a fuller sound.

As you decrease highs always adjust the output as the more you warmup the sound a little more you'll have to increase the pedals output. Give it a try when you're avalible smile.gif

Posted by: Todd Simpson Dec 22 2015, 07:26 AM

Well said smile.gif You can also push the mic out from the center of the cone and angle it toward the edge of the speaker and it will pickup more bass. You will lose some definition and some mid, but it will cheat the bass up. Also, the louder you can push it, the more chance you have of getting everything out of the speakers.

I realize this is tough as it can get really loud and make everyone angry including people you live with smile.gif But recording small speakers at low volume, you will have to cheat a bit (e.g. using a room mic, angle the close mic towward the endge of the speaker, etc. ) in order to get the "room sound" recorded smile.gif

Without buying new gear, that's what I'd suggest smile.gif

Speaking of gear, that head will easily push a real cab, e.g a 2x12 or 4x12 that will have wads more bass and sound more like a full sized rig. The 4x8 stack is more of a practice amp than a recording amp. so a cab swap may fix what is wrong in one change. smile.gif

Todd

QUOTE (Mertay @ Dec 21 2015, 06:26 PM) *
Cool it did help smile.gif

When mixing guitars on albums its quite common to cut the lowest freq.s not only to open room for kick, bass guitar to fit but also musically get rid of unwanted rumble. These cab.s seem to do this for you which is good...

They also have highest highs which is cool so say a clean fender can sound sparkly or pinch harmonics on distortion can be noticed, but in return the mian thing to be careful is to keep it still warm sounding.

My guess is when mic.ed you don't have to worry much about adding bass from the amp eq as the cab.s character will balance it easily but you have to be careful to keep the highs warm enough.

With the pedal the earbenders "top" and the afterburners "tone" is your friend for this. After you setup the amp clean (from clean or drive channel...simply your desired cleanest sound), arrange the drive amounths from pedal then decrease their highs to get a fuller sound.

As you decrease highs always adjust the output as the more you warmup the sound a little more you'll have to increase the pedals output. Give it a try when you're avalible smile.gif


Posted by: Phil66 Dec 22 2015, 11:57 AM

Thank you gentlemen,

This is all very interesting stuff smile.gif I find this topic enthralling smile.gif

I think a 4x12 would be too big in my room (see below) and ££££s, and my OCD won't allow the non-square cab of a 2x12 rolleyes.gif but I have been thinking, as you're only mic'ing one cone, would a 1x12 be ok? I could swap one 4x8 for a 1x12 (I think they would be about the same size) and then mic that up.

What do you reckon?

Cheers

Phil




Posted by: Mertay Dec 22 2015, 12:47 PM

I should point out you will have to adjust tone even if you change the cab. , there's no escaping that biggrin.gif

Every cab. even if the speaker cone size is the same will sound different, thats why although there are options on the market some use 4x12 and its not for the level. You did create some nice tones aside some adjustments needed, but if you feel a variety is what you need its really up to you.

When mic.ed, a cab. is sort of like eq'ing your amp. I have been fortunate to listen mixed setups a few times, an interesting one was a taurus amp (darius sponsors them, has a few vid.s on his channel) mixed with a 1x12 Fender (probably was a 112 hotrod model) cab. and wouldn't have guessed a metal amp would match so good with a vintage inspired cab...

So aside from impedance matching (cab. and amp valus much match) you can't go wrong as its a personal thing as what tone you want. Keep in mind the added bass with a 1x12 might feel its louder, I have a peavey combo that has a 12inch speaker on it and on half way it feels like its shaking the house (though not all cab.s are like this).

In short, your 4x8 cab.s seems nice for home use. If you were to swap one probably after a fast test you'll match your amps to cab.s to hear which one works best and keep them that way. If both amps with the 4x8 cab. sounds fine to you then keep them as is or sell one and get an amp switcher (so you won't move the mic. from one cab. to another).

Really up to you, best is not rushing into this and listen some cab.s at a store and meanwhile share some tones here so we'll work on any balacing needed smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 22 2015, 01:55 PM

Thanks Mertay,
The epic saga continues. Please tell me when you've had enough wink.gif
Cheers buddy. smile.gif

Posted by: Todd Simpson Dec 24 2015, 06:19 PM

Sure!! smile.gif You can get a closed top isolation 1x12 from randall that will let you record at loud volume without disturbing anyone. Also, you can get a nice Randall or Mesa 1zx12, or any 1x12 and mic the front. Of course, more volume tends to sound a bit better when micing a real amp. Thus the iso cab is always a good idea for home studios. they run about $399 new 200 used.

Either option will work smile.gif You could trade in your two mini cabs on a 1x12 and still come out ahead in terms of tone. A nice V30 speaker in a 1x12 would sound nice with your amp. smile.gif

Todd



QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 22 2015, 06:57 AM) *
Thank you gentlemen,

This is all very interesting stuff smile.gif I find this topic enthralling smile.gif

I think a 4x12 would be too big in my room (see below) and ££££s, and my OCD won't allow the non-square cab of a 2x12 rolleyes.gif but I have been thinking, as you're only mic'ing one cone, would a 1x12 be ok? I could swap one 4x8 for a 1x12 (I think they would be about the same size) and then mic that up.

What do you reckon?

Cheers

Phil



Posted by: Phil66 Dec 24 2015, 08:14 PM

WOW, thanks Todd, I didn't even know those isolation cabs existed. They are around £340 here. Given I can "safely" put out around 85db what tonal differences could I expect if I had a non isolated 12 compared to a more crank 12 in the ISO cab.
Also, how many dbs does the ISO cab "hide"?
Thanks Todd

UPDATE:
Have you used one yourself Todd?
I'm a bit concerned unsure.gif

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-many-guitars-so-little-time/816574-randall-isolation-cab.html

Posted by: Todd Simpson Dec 24 2015, 09:50 PM

I"ve tried them in guitar center and they do a really good job of reducing ambient volume. EVen if your amp is cranked, the sound in the room will be quiet. Like a muffled amp in another room. You do hear some low frequencies come out so some folks put the is cab in another room or as far away from the mix speakers as possible.

They do a great job of letting you crank your amp without waking the neighbors smile.gif

They are very handy for home recording. They are twice the cost of a single 1x12 though. You have to decide which works best for your situation smile.gif



QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 24 2015, 02:14 PM) *
WOW, thanks Todd, I didn't even know those isolation cabs existed. They are around £340 here. Given I can "safely" put out around 85db what tonal differences could I expect if I had a non isolated 12 compared to a more crank 12 in the ISO cab.
Also, how many dbs does the ISO cab "hide"?
Thanks Todd

UPDATE:
Have you used one yourself Todd?
I'm a bit concerned unsure.gif

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-many-guitars-so-little-time/816574-randall-isolation-cab.html

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 24 2015, 10:33 PM

Thanks Todd,

Eeeeek, I'm getting carried away again,

Thinking about one of https://marshallamps.com/products/cabinets/mg412bcf/ now, good price and with a bit of room juggling I can easily get it in and it would look the business smile.gif Maybe the angled one.

Cheers

Posted by: Mertay Dec 24 2015, 10:49 PM

There are many who build a box theirselves to greatly reduce the cost, google diy iso cab. , even the pictures should give a good idea.

Good thing is you can use any cab. you want but downside is it will take more space and probably not as isolatioing as a company engineered product (should be still enough though)

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 24 2015, 11:54 PM

Thanks Mertay,
I don't have the tools or time to make my own, would that Marshall 4x12 sound good mic'ed up??
It does look nice too rolleyes.gif
Cheers

Posted by: Mertay Dec 25 2015, 12:41 AM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 24 2015, 10:54 PM) *
Thanks Mertay,
I don't have the tools or time to make my own, would that Marshall 4x12 sound good mic'ed up??
It does look nice too rolleyes.gif
Cheers


Sorry I haven't demoed one, why not grab a guitar and go to your local music store? there's a good chance they'll have a ht1 there and as the amp isn't large you'll demo them easy.

The mg412 by the way seems like it isn't too expensive compared to the fender cab. I gave example, but as said its so much about personal taste (who knows might sound great or terrible with a blackstar amp...) . Incase you'll find one to listen, it looks like this; http://mydukkan.com/urunler_detay.asp?id=28268&gid=690

By the way, you do have amplitube and the cab.s in gt001. Its not the best way for sure but if you can't go to a shop for any reason just plug your guitar and demo those cab.s by selecting an sm57 as mic. . Atleast it might give some idea on brand characteristics among cab.s, just make sure you always use the same amp.

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 25 2015, 09:31 AM

Thanks Mertay,
I think it was the Christmas spirit (Jack Daniels smile.gif ) making me want that 4x12 laugh.gif
I'm going to look into a 1x12 in the new year, probably Marshall or Blackstar. Because of work and other commitments I struggle to get to guitar shops other than my friend's which is only 5 minute from work so a lunch break visit is good. Problem is, he is very small and only has a few combos so I have to take the mail order or eBay route.
Cheers

Posted by: Mertay Dec 25 2015, 11:37 AM

biggrin.gif

I also have a freind who has a shop too small, I have the same problem smile.gif

Going for a different brand since you already have a blackstar might be more beneficial to have variety, from my limited knowledge of the bands you like to listen and tones you enjoy I'd say go with brands that have a traditional background as mentioned brands like marshall, fender etc. does feel more suitable for you.

But yeah no need to rush, by the way I'm still waiting that pedals tone knob example settings (all left-middle-all right) so we can find a set and forget setting smile.gif sure guitar homework comes first, but when you have the time I'd like to hear the most out of the blackstar cab. you have smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 25 2015, 01:19 PM

Thanks Mertay,
I'll get the tone thing done very soon, maybe tonight.
I'm thinking of going for Marshall because the people that started Blackstar are ex Marshall designers so the bloodline will be their if you know what I mean.
Cheers buddy and Merry Christmas

Posted by: Mertay Dec 25 2015, 03:34 PM

Merry Christmas! smile.gif


Posted by: Phil66 Dec 25 2015, 08:24 PM

OK,
Afterburner. Mid edge off, green clipping stage, modern setting volume 10'o'clock, Gain 12'o'clock,

Blackstar: Clean channel, reverb 11'o'clock, ISF (eq) 12'o'clock, volume full, gain 12'o'clock

Guitar PRS ACE signature, bridge pickup, vol full, tone full.

Tone control on Afterburner going from full anti clockwise>9'o'clock>12'o'clock>3'o'clock>full clockwise.

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/tone-test-1


Posted by: Mertay Dec 25 2015, 09:45 PM

Nice!

I'd say the balance starts at 9 o'clock (for big punchy powerchord stuff, the more closer to 12 its getting to ac/dc type driven chord sounds) and your lead tones start around 11 till max 2 o'clock. After 2 it immediatly starts to sound thin.

If you ever watched overdrive pedal demos maybe you've noticed the tone knobs on most pedals are usually around 2 o'clock, with current amp settings this is max for you. I'd say your safe zone is between 12-1 o'clock.

The isf knob depending on position as far as I know can add or take highs, either full left or right my guess is to compansate the bright/darkness added from isf you'll change only 1 clock turn from pedal tone knob.

So given these setting ideas, why not make a solo sound you personally enjoy? just keep in mind the tone settings and we'll see if there's any other setting we have to be careful about.

PS; now we can hear how full your cab. can sound, not bad at all! smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 25 2015, 10:25 PM

Thanks Mertay,

The amp definitely sounds better with the volume knob full and controlling the volume with the pedal.

Here is a full explanation of ISF



Cheers

Posted by: Mertay Dec 25 2015, 10:42 PM

So from the video, if your pedals tone knob is set at 1 o'clock when isf is in the middle; when the isf is set american voiced then turn the pedals tone knob to around 12, if british then around 2.

Now here's info on how pedals volume (output knobs) controls the sound of an amp;

The gain knob on any amp is actually sort of and input level on the amp, when increased this volume is increased inside the amp so the input signal is stronger and the amp distorts more. Thats why we can hear some noise on amp distortion settings, cause the input then gets very high.

Now a pedals output can also (technically) do this, if we increase the output of the pedal then the input increases too at the amp and the amp starts to distort. It not as effective as increasing the gain on the amp but sure can make a noticable difference.

Now, since its not as effective thats why many prefers to use the drive channel of the amp but set the gain really low. When the pedal is activated and the pedals output volume is hot this alone will distort the amp more+we also have the overdrive sound from the pedal too so can get a very strong distortion sound. Basically then the pedals acts like a channel footswitch of the amp but we get more of the pedals tone.

if you like the pedals output cranked on clean channel, definitly try lowering it but also instead of clean use the drive channel with the amp with the drive knob (of amp) set very low. This is very common among guitarists, many blues or even rock guys like john petrucci never use the clean channel although we can hear very clean sounds from them wink.gif

Posted by: Todd Simpson Dec 25 2015, 11:06 PM

That would work! smile.gif Any 4x12 will do or any 2x12 or 1x12 to be honest smile.gif The 1x12 is the most affordable. The iso cab is nice, but costly for a 1x12 enclosure smile.gif


QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 24 2015, 04:33 PM) *
Thanks Todd,

Eeeeek, I'm getting carried away again,

Thinking about one of https://marshallamps.com/products/cabinets/mg412bcf/ now, good price and with a bit of room juggling I can easily get it in and it would look the business smile.gif Maybe the angled one.

Cheers

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 26 2015, 12:20 AM

Thanks folks,
Need to start looking at the Vox next, also thinking of getting a Laney like http://www.gak.co.uk/en/laney-cub-head/87950?gclid=CjwKEAiA7_OzBRDA8OfT3orp51oSJACVqslI3g2dtRztJ76S_xeB1ehWgLcFZIYowToJvM9HAWhHshoCBCzw_wcB Can be set to less than 1 watt smile.gif
First though is a 1x12 wink.gif
Cheers guys
Phil

Posted by: Mertay Dec 26 2015, 10:26 AM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 25 2015, 11:20 PM) *
Thanks folks,
Need to start looking at the Vox next, also thinking of getting a Laney like http://www.gak.co.uk/en/laney-cub-head/87950?gclid=CjwKEAiA7_OzBRDA8OfT3orp51oSJACVqslI3g2dtRztJ76S_xeB1ehWgLcFZIYowToJvM9HAWhHshoCBCzw_wcB Can be set to less than 1 watt smile.gif


Cool, this time could you set the tone control to 1 o'clock and rest of the pedal adjusted same as before? amp settings flat and just 1 recording enough. I'd like to nail a default tone knob setting area so you won't have to adjust much when swapping amps wink.gif

Also, if you record over a backing track for a lesson these days try with the blackstar+pedal with the adjustments we made. I'd like to listen an example on how it sounds with a backing track, give quick tips if needed for the gitar to cut through the mix.

As for the laney rolleyes.gif lets not rush as we've just started figuring out potential of current amps smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 26 2015, 01:28 PM

Thanks Mertay,
I'm getting carried away again, I have a severe case of GAS blink.gif
I'll get the recording done pretty soon.
Cheers buddy, happy boxing day smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 26 2015, 09:36 PM

Oh dear,

I decided to install Windows 10 as it is free at the moment. It's pretty slick BUT, I can't hit any more than -20db in Reaper using the mic mad.gif I've changed nothing else.

Any ideas?

I'll post on Reaper forum too.

Cheers


Posted by: Mertay Dec 26 2015, 09:51 PM

My guess is windows might be adding fx, I don't have win 10 but right click the speaker icon (or whereever the speaker settings are) and check if any fx is enabled or any unusual settings.

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 26 2015, 10:10 PM

Thanks Mertay,
All I can see that looks odd to me but I've never really had to mess with these controls is this. As you can see, the secondary device is receiving the signal from the mic and the meter is full.



I'll have a dig around.

Cheers

Phil

Posted by: Mertay Dec 27 2015, 10:49 AM

I remembered you added some input gain from the gt001i could you check if its resetted?

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 27 2015, 12:33 PM

Thanks Mertay,
Yeah that is still at +7db. What is strange is that today, the PC isn't receiving any signal. In the picture on my last post the secondary device peak meter was going full green. Now it is nothing, the peak meters in Reaper show nothing but the peak meter in the display in the GT-001 is filling up nicely so for some reason the sound isn't getting from the GT-001 to the PC. The PC is seeing the GT-001 because I can fully control it from the PC. It shows the signal in the tuner.
This is going to be one of those silly little things somewhere mad.gif
Cheers buddy.

Update:

Must be a driver thing because it doesn't send a signal if I use the guitar input. I'll go and check the Boss site. I'm annoyed because all the checks said everything was ok for Win10.

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 27 2015, 12:59 PM

Well it's got the correct driver as far as I can see.

Still can't get it working sad.gif

Posted by: Mertay Dec 27 2015, 02:03 PM

try an un-install+restart then re-install and restart the computer without opening reaper, gt001 control etc...

Then open reaper and do the settings, if still no sound select the pc's sound driver from reaper asÅŸo menu and then select the gt001 again.

Similar thing happened to a student of mine (on win7) who uses asio4all, somehow when program opens it doesn't activate but can manually activate when selecting asio inside reaper.

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 27 2015, 02:20 PM

Thanks Mertay,
You mean uninstall and reinstall Reaper or GT-001?
Cheers

Posted by: Mertay Dec 27 2015, 03:05 PM

gt001, but yeah check the boss forums too all I can offer is experimenting ideas smile.gif

edit;

http://www.boss.info/support/by_product/gt-001/updates_drivers/350861

* A problem may have occurred if the device is connected but cannot be used after waiting for 10 minutes. Download the detailed information for the driver and refer to "Troubleshooting."


might be related to your problem?

edit 2; also found this on a search,

http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=15849.0

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 27 2015, 03:41 PM

Yeah thanks Mertay.
I'm all over the web.
As far as I can see from the Boss site you can't actually download the drivers, it says Win10 does it automatically. It says I if you can see the GT-001 icon in the start menu then it should work.
I'm not by the computer at the moment but I've had a thought, I need to check something else hasn't happened and is giving me a red herring. I should be able to get sound from the speakers without the computer being switched on because they are plugged into the GT-001.
I'll check this out and get back later.
Cheers

Update:
I disconnected the GT-001 from the PC usb, I powered via mains and still no sound from the speakers nor if I plug into my amp so this is a unit fault as it is supposed to be used either as an interface or in front of an amp. Factory reset coming up.

Posted by: Mertay Dec 27 2015, 04:30 PM

ah seems its more serious, ok one last idea; go to system, device manager, right click the sound stuff and select update driver...maybe a protection program prevented it from downloading the needed program like a virus/firewall program?

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 27 2015, 04:54 PM



Mertay, it wasn't working even not connected to the PC via USB so it wasn't driver related it was Phil related. So so so so sorry. I was being a numpty. When I installed Win10 I had to get underneath my desk to plug the Logitech wireless receiver into t proper USB port instead of my HUB, it wouldn't work during the setup process in the hub for some reason. I have just found out after a HUGE light bulb moment that I had pressed on the volume pedal and it was stopping the signal leaving the GT-001. It plugs into the back of the GT-001 so doesn't affect the input signal. Yesterday when I was getting a tiny amount of sound I must have had the pedal slightly open; today I went back under the desk to retrieve the Logitech receiver and put it back into the hub, I must have caught the pedal again and fully closed it. I don't know why I didn't think of it earlier because it's caught me out before. I'm going to put an elastic band around it as I only use the expression occasionally.
I feel such a plonker. I didn't know I knew so many swear words as I shouted out mad.gif What makes me feel worse is that it's caught me out before unsure.gif
I still don't understand why the windows sound window with the recording tab in, showed a full meter yesterday but not today.
I'm so sorry for wasting your time Mertay sad.gif


Posted by: Mertay Dec 27 2015, 05:49 PM

I lol.ed so much there are tears in my eyes biggrin.gif

Don't be sorry it actually funny biggrin.gif

I didn't know you had an expression pedal, man I bet you have the most complicated system in this forum including the instructors. Progess a little more and a year or 2 from now Kris should hire you to be the GMC's studio tech. guy biggrin.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 27 2015, 07:10 PM

Thanks for your understanding Mertay, I feel a fool. rolleyes.gif
Please don't moan but http://www.gurusamps.com/en/1959-doubledecker is very tempting smile.gif
Cheers dude

Posted by: Mertay Dec 27 2015, 07:29 PM

hmm...this seems like an in-between product which are getting more popular everyday, to me they are great as used as a pedal but as an amp it won't be satisfying.

Did you know your blackstar and ht5 is derived from a pedal? check out their ht pedal range, great pedals and even have emulated output but the few people I asked didn't recommend me to use it as an amp. Reason is they don't have poweramp section like your ht1 so can't sound big/fulfilling.

Seems this product is something like that. Nice but not for you (the hotbird is really big/full sounding anyway), if you really have gas for an amp I'd say save cash to get something killer like a marshall jvm, dsl series or the high-end models of blackstar etc...

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 27 2015, 08:04 PM

Yeah I know what you mean. I looked at http://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/electric_amps_detail.asp?stock=14060215215432&gclid=CjwKEAiAtf6zBRDS0oCLrL37gFUSJACr2JYbATlk9-ExB0c4mQAyLttU-9NIkQTjRJ1VaQlcFaOf-hoCIArw_wcB#main-product-overview when I was looking for a low watt amp but they were nearly £700 so I didn't bother, very attractive price now though smile.gif
There aren't really any versatile low watt amps as far as I can see. They don't seem to think tone matters much for bedroom use as they think it's just practice. sad.gif
Cheers

Posted by: Mertay Dec 27 2015, 08:43 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 27 2015, 07:04 PM) *
Yeah I know what you mean. I looked at http://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/electric_amps_detail.asp?stock=14060215215432&gclid=CjwKEAiAtf6zBRDS0oCLrL37gFUSJACr2JYbATlk9-ExB0c4mQAyLttU-9NIkQTjRJ1VaQlcFaOf-hoCIArw_wcB#main-product-overview when I was looking for a low watt amp but they were nearly £700 so I didn't bother, very attractive price now though smile.gif
There aren't really any versatile low watt amps as far as I can see. They don't seem to think tone matters much for bedroom use as they think it's just practice. sad.gif
Cheers


Thats a nice small amp but notice the volumes are cranked at the video, and he uses an sm57 just like you so I think you shoudn't limit yourself to 1watt options cause I think you can manage more volume at home. PS, I'm not a fan of many 1 watt amps, the tones feel compressed.

Also although everybody advises to crank the output of any amp for recording, this is never a rule and I think its misleading. The power section works more to get richer tone yes but I've used many amps just fine without pushing full volume.

I mentioned the 60watt (solidstate) peavey I have at home, it requires the volume to be set at minimum "2" do give proper tone which isn't that loud (no in an apartment but easily ok in a house, I live in a house smile.gif ) for late night guitar playing.


Edit; I remember a year ago someone in this forum bought a shur guitar amp but was it the corso model I2m not sure. I do remember it sounding really nice though.


Posted by: Phil66 Dec 27 2015, 10:09 PM

I used to have a Peavey Bandit Transtube and on the clean channel I couldn't go above 2 on the volume, it was very loud. Why don't they make low watt amps with a decent set of controls? There are some recordings here from the Vox. I played through the Bright first and played the tune on bridge and then neck then did the same with the Thick channel which bypasses the tone controls. No reverb on this amp which is a shame sad.gif I think the Vox has more potential than the Blackstar smile.gif

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/vox-bright

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/vox-thick

This looks interesting. 15watt, switchable to 1 watt, reamping facility, fx loop, emulated out. This company is in the heart of the Black Country where I come from smile.gif Home of Judas Priest, Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, Diamond Head and many more. Iommi uses Laney smile.gif

Posted by: Mertay Dec 27 2015, 11:03 PM

whats the model of the vox? does it have fx loop?

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 27 2015, 11:52 PM

It's The Lil Night Train, see http://www.voxshowroom.com/uk/amp/nt2h.html wink.gif

No fx loop sad.gif

That's where that Laney Ironheart seems to score points, very versatile and switchable wattage, fx loop, reamp feature, direct out, etc smile.gif

http://www.musicradar.com/reviews/guitars/laney-ironheart-irt-studio-574874

It may be a bit of a one trick pony aimed more at metal and shed so it may be worth waiting to see if they do a Lionheart version wink.gif

Or this http://www.musicradar.com/reviews/guitars/laney-l5-studio-626158
It would be nice if they did a 2U Rack version of the Lionheart L5 . The Ironheart has a Rack and a head version but the Rack version has more features.

I'm not going to rush into it but I think this is the kind of thing for me wink.gif

Posted by: Mertay Dec 28 2015, 10:21 AM

While the blackstar does the job fine, that vox does sound a bit sweeter to me but I must say I really like vox sound in general smile.gif can you do that with pedal sound clip mentioned before? I'd like to hear it boosted with the pedal too.

Yeah the laney does seem to have the feature department covered, my only concern is if its sounds a bit too metal for you?

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 28 2015, 10:26 AM

Thanks Mertay,

Please see the edit in my previous post.


Those recordings were the Vox with gain at 12 o clock and the Hotbird set how we left it wink.gif

I think I'm going to use the Vox as my main amp. It has much more clarity. It's not too good with the little Vox cab for me, it has a bit too much middle but pretty good with the black star.

Cheers

Posted by: Mertay Dec 28 2015, 12:11 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 28 2015, 09:26 AM) *
Thanks Mertay,

Please see the edit in my previous post.


Those recordings were the Vox with gain at 12 o clock and the Hotbird set how we left it wink.gif

I think I'm going to use the Vox as my main amp. It has much more clarity. It's not too good with the little Vox cab for me, it has a bit too much middle but pretty good with the black star.

Cheers


Is the vox such a clean amp? I suspect a setting on the hotbird must be changed cause thats a really clean signal very unlike to what you shared with the blackstar+hotbird, could you double check specially the pedal and the settings?

The L5-studio does sound nice, more versatile if you ask me. Keep in mind while I guess you might want the cab. out for special occasions like a guest might be in the house etc. I think you'll use a re-amping feature very rare once you get to know an amp. So when checking out the options don't limit yourself for a re-amping feature.

Since when you record, listen the backing from computer and listening yourself from the amp, an fx loop is what you need most for reverb/delay addition.

edit; a no pedal+gain all the way turned example also would help me to understand the vox smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 28 2015, 05:16 PM

biggrin.gif Thanks Mertay,
I'll check it out later, there may have been too much sherry in the trifle wink.gif , maybe I didn't press the switch on the Hotbird unsure.gif
I'll do it again later on and also the full gain Vox only.
Cheers

Posted by: Mertay Dec 28 2015, 05:22 PM

Cool smile.gif we did almost all the previous tone tests on the blackstar so changing the amp needs a bit of getting used to for me.

By the way, you mentioned clarity for the vox. Could you open that? clarity is usually used for being the opposite of muddy or details being transfered better on X device or source, I felt like you ment something maybe else.

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 28 2015, 05:31 PM

It is much more crisp sounding, less muddy, it rings out more. Side by side the Blackstar sounds as though there is a cushion in front of the speaker in comparison. The Vox is more "open". Sound is very difficult to explain, unsure.gif

I have fallen in love with http://www.richtonemusic.co.uk/products/laney_l5_studio_rig_5watt_head_and_112_cab_boxed_separtely.asp?gclid=CjwKEAiA2IO0BRDXmLndksSB0WgSJADNKqqoU4Ddc7OwrwEH_AlKqIVStwn1k9RIvgu1pPRty3-V_BoC2fzw_wcB just for the retro looks, it makes me think of a VW camper van on its way to the beach rolleyes.gif I need to trade some gear. It's gorgeous wub.gif


Posted by: Mertay Dec 28 2015, 05:48 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 28 2015, 04:31 PM) *
It is much more crisp sounding, less muddy, it rings out more. Side by side the Blackstar sounds as though there is a cushion in front of the speaker in comparison. The Vox is more "open". Sound is very difficult to explain, unsure.gif

I have fallen in love with http://www.richtonemusic.co.uk/products/laney_l5_studio_rig_5watt_head_and_112_cab_boxed_separtely.asp?gclid=CjwKEAiA2IO0BRDXmLndksSB0WgSJADNKqqoU4Ddc7OwrwEH_AlKqIVStwn1k9RIvgu1pPRty3-V_BoC2fzw_wcB just for the retro looks, it makes me think of a VW camper van on its way to the beach rolleyes.gif I need to trade some gear. It's gorgeous wub.gif


I think I understand, as the amounth of distortion increases the "openness" of an amp must also decrease cause with lots of distortion the high freq.s can really sound rough/hurt ears.

Although very versatile, there is a side of the blackstar being on the metal side. But you should try getting a similar distortion on the vox too and then figure out which "school" of amps is really for you. That rack Laney for example, I would also expect it not to have much highs like the blackstar as its metal oriented.

Listening to the laney L5, its not a very shreddy amp;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzxO2UXgwlk




so I think these are good examples to understand as there are limitations to amps and we must be careful to choose what area of the sound spectrum we'll be using.


Posted by: Phil66 Dec 28 2015, 10:11 PM

Hello Mertay,

OK sound files as requested, gain on Vox 12 o clock. On the recordings with full gain and no Hotbird the vol was at about 9 o clock. Same thing, chords on bridge then neck same PRS Ace guitar.

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/vox-bright-with-hotbird

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/vox-thick-with-hotbird

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/vox-bright-full-gain

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/vox-thick-full-gain

To be honest, with the Laney, I love all of the tones he gets in the review below, Paul Glover does some great honest reviews, there is a track he has recorded using it too.
I like some metal, Sabbath, Pantera etc but listen and aspire more to playing stuff like SRV, Black Stone Cherry, Satch, Thunder, that kind of thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSCj4_CA_pc


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DJMJzVyEQY



Here is Paul Glovers review of the Ironheart, there's a big "Thank you" piece for the first 50 seconds but after that there is a section where he plays it clean, I think it is pretty sparkling, not much playing after that, he talks through the features. It sounds better than expected clean.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSP7QUTbznA


Here is a demo of the Lionheart by the crazy dudes at Andertons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv996M1S1hg


Cheers

smile.gif

Posted by: Mertay Dec 28 2015, 10:49 PM

I haven't listened thunder before, opened the first track I saw and youtube and the tone was very like what can come out of an L5 from the demo's I heard so far.

Thanks for the vox tracks, I get it now smile.gif did you notice how the drive is different from the blackstar? on the vox the drive sound feels like its squeezed when there is more gain, unlike the blackstar as it starts to sound like a marshall stack...

There's a good chance the L5 will sound like your vox (while the ironheat like blackstar) when gain is full or when you're hitting it hard with the hotbird pedal. You'll definitly get as said tones like Thunder but for Satch solo sound you'll probably need a distortion pedal and the L5 would work on the clean channel.

It's not about which one is better in general or for you but I just wanted to try and note what you should expect from the amps if you decide to pull the trigger smile.gif

So back to the vox; for cleans do you prefer the bright channel with the treble eq decreased or the thick channel with the treble eq open? smile.gif

With the blackstar using the overdrive of the pedal we could get shreddy drive sounds but with the vox I think we'll have more success with the fuzz to reach that height of distortion.

My first impression of most practical setup is; Vox set almost clean (drive somewhere in the middle), overdrive gain a bit high but output not very high for dirty/bluesy tones and fuzz for shreddy tones (maybe both sides of the pedal working together will sound better on the vox? remind me to test this when we've progressed abit) smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 28 2015, 11:46 PM

Thank you so much Mertay,
I really appreciate everything and I'm really feeling bad that if I change my amp we have to start again. I am really enjoying this but I don't want to be a burden on you. Please please please tell me when you've had enough.
I'm really taken with the Laney L5 Studio.
For some classic Thunder check out http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=53694&view=findpost&p=707733

Posted by: Mertay Dec 29 2015, 12:04 AM

Nah this is fun for me smile.gif I got to know alot about your rig too in the process, it sort of like going to the shop and testing stuff when you share sound demos smile.gif

But what I want most for you is commitment to an amp (atleast 2-3 years) as mentioned before, an amp is as primary on someones tone as a guitar cause we build everything around them. Thats why if you like something but it needs budget saving I'll always vote for saving cash...

So if you end-up getting the L5 promise me not to start looking a week later at the huge 8-10 tube guitar amps, also I hope your wife won't kick you out of the house cause of this gas of yours biggrin.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 29 2015, 12:36 AM

Lol the wife is not a problem at all I just want a single versatile amp that maybe needs the Hotbird to get more out of it wink.gif
Cheers buddy

Posted by: Mertay Dec 29 2015, 08:57 AM

biggrin.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 29 2015, 12:19 PM

So what did you make of the Ironheart and the L5 in the Paul Glover demo? smile.gif

Posted by: Mertay Dec 29 2015, 02:38 PM

Laney's are cool, they have their own vibe and character going on.

The ironheart is a very nicely thought out unit but I guess I like british amp-vibe even for metal. Sort of reflects my thoughts of mesa, great amps and would love to have one but wouldn't be my first choice smile.gif

Persoanlly I like jcm800 sort of amps but thicker voiced, the amp has to be able to accept lots of gain. The L5 stops at the point of a bit more after breakup, which is cool as a lot can be done with those voicings. Since I'm on the shreddy side I'd probably need 1-2 pedals with that amp.

I guess the L5 is much more towards your likings and besides character I noticed the knobs were usually very close to the middle on all sound examples. Seems its tuned to give specific sounds instead of huge versatility but adjusting the amp for any need would be easy and this is a nice plus for you smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Dec 29 2015, 06:26 PM

Thanks Mertay,
Is funny how things change smile.gif I've just read the first few posts in this discussion and I was saying I didn't need another amp and now I'm thinking of getting one. I will keep the Vox, it's a work of art and so cute wink.gif I'll probably swap a 4x8 for a 1x12.
I originally got the Hotbird to go in front of the GT-001 after you said about dynamics being better through an analogue pedal which they are, and now I'm looking at amps laugh.gif

I was going to try the GT-001 in front of the amp with the Hotbird in front of the GT-001 but I have to us one of the speaker outs.
If I get an amp with fx loop might think about swapping the GT-001 for an interface and maybe get some sort of effects unit for the loop but that's later on.

Back to the amp, I'd like something that has a good tonal range and sparkly cleans, drive doesn't need to go beyond https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyr_LYnwD0g really I don't think, and we always have the Hotbird wink.gif It needs to sound good at around 90db so I'm more than open to suggestions. I'm going to put it into the gear forum just to get suggestions, I hope you don't think it's because I don't trust your judgement, is just to open it up to people who may not venture into this discussion wink.gif I could do with a 3watt JVM4 laugh.gif

The thing is, I'm not looking for one tone as I enter some of the collabs and the sounds required vary as do the takes for lessons for REC.

Back to the Hotbird, I asked Valerio what the mid edge knob actually does, his answer was "+ 7db (6db/oct) from 300 to 2.5K Hz " which will mean more to you than me wink.gif I haven't had that switched in for any of the tests yet wink.gif

Cheers buddy

Posted by: Mertay Dec 29 2015, 06:49 PM

As we build everything around the amp its really about experience if you need a processor or not.

There are many people who are fine with a few pedals, after settling for a main amp testing your gt001 would be great. In time if you find yourself only using 1-2 fx then going the pedal route would make more sense.

And yeah this place is great for suggestions, what better is giving tone examples from albums like you usually do. That would help the members a lot.

I'll only add its usually better to aim for a good clean/low drive character than distortion on an amp. Pedals can cover any distortion these days when needed but they struggle shape/transforming on cleaner stuff.

As for the hotbird yeah the explanation makes sense to me biggrin.gif basically, you can use it when hitting a dirty amp for soloing-it will give the guitar more focus.

Posted by: Phil66 Jan 2 2016, 09:35 PM

If anyone wants to follow the "sub-thread" about the amp, check it out http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=56442&st=0. Once we're sorted on the amp, and as long as Mertay is willing and able, we will be fine tuning recording issues with a mic, and maybe with the emulated out.
Let's hope Mertay hasn't pulled all of his hair out yet and is ok for this, I won't blame him at all if he says "Phil, I've had enough, I can't take it anymore aaaaaarrrrrrgggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhh wacko.gif wacko.gif wacko.gif wacko.gif"

Cheers

Posted by: Phil66 Jan 7 2016, 02:13 PM

1x12 vintage cab has arrived wink.gif

Posted by: Mertay Jan 7 2016, 03:19 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jan 7 2016, 01:13 PM) *
1x12 vintage cab has arrived wink.gif


Cool! why not mic. it and try with Vox until peavey arrives? smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Jan 7 2016, 03:49 PM

I will this evening, I'm at work at the moment, I had it delivered to work smile.gif

Anything in particular you want to hear from the Vox or Blackstar with or without Hotbird? Also pick a guitar if you want smile.gif

Cheers smile.gif

Posted by: Mertay Jan 7 2016, 04:01 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jan 7 2016, 02:49 PM) *
I will this evening, I'm at work at the moment, I had it delivered to work smile.gif

Anything in particular you want to hear from the Vox or Blackstar with or without Hotbird? Also pick a guitar if you want smile.gif

Cheers smile.gif


Lets try the thick channel on the Vox (the settings I liked earlyer in this topic) with/without the pedal.

I mainly would like to listen to see if we can nail the mic. position before the Peavey arrives so by then we'll only test the amp and not the other stuff in the chain.

Where was that thomann video we listened the cab. I forgot smile.gif check that vid. to see where they placed the mic. it might help (if it was an sm57 they used)

Posted by: Phil66 Jan 7 2016, 04:19 PM

Thanks,

I don't think you get to see the mic, I'll check it later, I've put it here for reference smile.gif

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZFNILSjBZs

Posted by: Mertay Jan 7 2016, 05:34 PM

Ah yeah seems its behind his leg, we can't cheat smile.gif

Posted by: Todd Simpson Jan 7 2016, 09:39 PM

congrats on your new rig!! smile.gif That head with a 1x12 and that pedal you have can pretty much do anything so you are pretty much set smile.gif Get ready to have better sounding recordings as well. smile.gif


QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jan 7 2016, 09:49 AM) *
I will this evening, I'm at work at the moment, I had it delivered to work smile.gif

Anything in particular you want to hear from the Vox or Blackstar with or without Hotbird? Also pick a guitar if you want smile.gif

Cheers smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Jan 7 2016, 10:14 PM

Thanks Todd,

Ok, first setup recordings. I can't get the recording to sound a thick and bassy as the actual cab at the moment, also, I can hear my pick hitting the strings actually from the guitar not the cab in the recording so I need to make a few changes. The mic was 1 inch from cone edge, perpendicular to grille nearly touching grille cloth.

First riff on bridge pup second on neck. Gain full, thick channel.

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/vox-thick-full-gain-v30

Hotbird: Vol 12 o clock, tone 12 o clock, modern setting, amber clipping. Vox gain 9 o clock.

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/vox-thick-gain9-o-clock-with-hotbird-v30

Cheers gentlemen. smile.gif

Posted by: Mertay Jan 7 2016, 11:29 PM

Sounded pretty thick to me? in a good way. The mic. position seems fine, though I don't know the eq settings.

Already a very usable sound imho, for solo could be a touch brighter ever. Feel free to make the changes and post again, if the vox eq's aren't flat share a photo just incase I miss anything.

With the pedal the sound was too crushed, probably either the pedals output or the amp was driven too much. Not important though, probably after nailing some sound from the Peavy alone then we'll make some adjustments anyway for the pedal (with ach amp the pedal would need some adjustment)

Posted by: Phil66 Jan 8 2016, 12:03 AM

Thanks Mertay,
In the thick channel of the Vox the bass and treble controls are completely bypassed.
Cheers

Posted by: Mertay Jan 8 2016, 06:23 PM

We couldn't get into the fuzz-side of the pedal much though did share sounds/ideas. This is a nice vid. about fuzz pedals, all sound different but might help on usage;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBRXBLwuxfY



Posted by: Phil66 Jan 8 2016, 09:37 PM

Thanks Mertay,
Very interesting smile.gif
I don't think it's worth messing with the pedal just yet as we will have to start again with the Peavey wink.gif

Here are a couple of recordings with the Blackstar, mic position exactly the same as with the Vox.

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/blackstar-crunch-v30

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/blackstar-full-gain-v30

Posted by: Todd Simpson Jan 9 2016, 06:54 AM

Remember our talk about "room tone" ? If you have any other method of recording, even the mic on a video camera, you can leave it in the room several feet back from the cab to pickup up some "room tone" and mix this with the Mic tone. It will bring some of the bass you are hearing in the room back in to "the box" (the computer).
Also, the further you move the mic from the center of the cone and towards the edge of the 1x12 speaker, the more bass you will get smile.gif

Also, the way to avoid pick/string noise is to (ideally ) have the cab/mic in it's own recording/space/room and if that's not possible, then recording at higher volume will do the trick, one or the other is often required until this wonderful invention was unleashed on the world!!

http://www.seelectronics.com/guitarf/

it can isolate the cab without having to buy an isolation cab and isolate vocals or what not. smile.gif


QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jan 7 2016, 04:14 PM) *
Thanks Todd,

Ok, first setup recordings. I can't get the recording to sound a thick and bassy as the actual cab at the moment, also, I can hear my pick hitting the strings actually from the guitar not the cab in the recording so I need to make a few changes. The mic was 1 inch from cone edge, perpendicular to grille nearly touching grille cloth.

First riff on bridge pup second on neck. Gain full, thick channel.

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/vox-thick-full-gain-v30

Hotbird: Vol 12 o clock, tone 12 o clock, modern setting, amber clipping. Vox gain 9 o clock.

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/vox-thick-gain9-o-clock-with-hotbird-v30

Cheers gentlemen. smile.gif


Posted by: Mertay Jan 9 2016, 07:57 AM

Nice!

Thats a pretty sweet sound you got there! loving the depth feeling smile.gif great for recording backing guitars or playing solo's for classic rock/blues sort of vibe while the blackstar had a more in-your-face thing going on suited for modern solo/stronger distortion stuff.

How would you compare them in the room? I imagine you'll want to switch between them in the future for gettings sound variations in a recording, that cab. is a good buy smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Jan 9 2016, 10:55 AM

Thanks Todd and Mertay smile.gif

The mic is about an inch from the edge of the cone nearly touching the cloth.

That isolator thing is just like what I had in mind to make using a a slice out of a plastic oil drum and some foam wink.gif

I guess ultimately, and I'm chuckling to myself because I'm not exactly a recording artist laugh.gif I just love this side of things, I'd like an interface that can record two mics and a dry signal at once. But that's down the line. I see a lot of cab demo videos where there is an SM57 and another mic being used next to each other. I'm guessing the other mic is a condenser unsure.gif

In the room the cab sounds bigger, more open, looser, is hard to explain.

Yes Mertay, a great buy for less than £100, well put together too, things like the piping around the grille cloth are a little uneven but when you consider the whole thing for the price of the cone is a great buy smile.gif

Cheers

Posted by: Mertay Jan 9 2016, 03:01 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jan 9 2016, 09:55 AM) *
That isolator thing is just like what I had in mind to make using a a slice out of a plastic oil drum and some foam wink.gif


That would work fine smile.gif SE electronics makes the best of those products but for your needs yeah I'd also go DIY.

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jan 9 2016, 09:55 AM) *
I guess ultimately, and I'm chuckling to myself because I'm not exactly a recording artist laugh.gif I just love this side of things, I'd like an interface that can record two mics and a dry signal at once. But that's down the line. I see a lot of cab demo videos where there is an SM57 and another mic being used next to each other. I'm guessing the other mic is a condenser unsure.gif

In the room the cab sounds bigger, more open, looser, is hard to explain.

Yes Mertay, a great buy for less than £100, well put together too, things like the piping around the grille cloth are a little uneven but when you consider the whole thing for the price of the cone is a great buy smile.gif

Cheers


With a 2 input soundcard you can use 2 mic.s or 1 mic. and direct guitar (would need a splitter too though). Thing is when 2 mic.s and direct then soundcards are usually 4 input (not remembering any 3 input soundcards) and that makes things a bit more expensive.

The mic.s type doesn't matter if used on same cab., the important thing is its character must be different compared to the sm57. Mixing cab.s or mic.s is fun, that how its done in a studio but its good not to get into that for now not because of budget stuff reasons but we'll have to try get the best solo sound from 1 mic. anyway.

Just remembered the Peavey had USB cab. emulated output, we might blend that with mic.ed sound if possible rolleyes.gif

I'm going to recommend that cab. in a local forum where blues guys dominate, I bet they'll like smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Jan 9 2016, 05:34 PM

I'd be interested to hear what others think of the cab Mertay.
I can only record one input at one time so I wouldn't be able to record the xlr out of the Peavey, there may be a way to record from the USB out though.

When the time is right, how about http://us.focusrite.com/firewire-audio-interfaces/saffire-pro-26? Currently available for just over £200.

Cheers smile.gif

Posted by: Mertay Jan 9 2016, 05:47 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jan 9 2016, 04:34 PM) *
When the time is right, how about http://us.focusrite.com/firewire-audio-interfaces/saffire-pro-26? Currently available for just over £200.


The interface seems fine but I really don't trust firewire as its abandoned, my last soundcard worked 10 years for me and in that time period if one wants to re-new their computer firewire might be a problem. USB seems very secure for future.

Posted by: Phil66 Jan 9 2016, 05:54 PM

Yeah but it's only FireWire compatible not exclusively FireWire wink.gif

Posted by: Mertay Jan 9 2016, 06:58 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jan 9 2016, 04:54 PM) *
Yeah but it's only FireWire compatible not exclusively FireWire wink.gif


I'm not sure what you mean?

Posted by: Phil66 Jan 9 2016, 07:29 PM

Sorry, what I meant was you don't HAVE to use FireWire but it is compatible with FireWire but you can use usb. BUT I've since found out there is no USB only FireWire and ADAT so that unit is not for me anyway rolleyes.gif

That's the kind of thing I will have eventually and another mic.

Sorry for the confusion mate wink.gif

Posted by: Mertay Jan 9 2016, 07:52 PM

No problem smile.gif we'll check into that anyway when the time is right, since such products always evolve its always better to delay it as much as possible, for example in the 90's todays most basic soundcard would cost 1000s of dolars tongue.gif

Posted by: Todd Simpson Jan 9 2016, 07:53 PM

Something like this would do ya smile.gif

http://us.focusrite.com/usb-audio-interfaces/scarlett-18i8

two mics and direct record would be no prob here. You could however, get the two channel usb version much cheaper, record direct an re-amp. but I've noticed people are very reluctant on that, especially at first. But yeah, that four input would take care of everything smile.gif

Too bad you cant find cheap 11 racks there. I usually record one mic through the xlr and then my 11 rack tone and dry tone all at once over usb.


QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jan 9 2016, 01:29 PM) *
Sorry, what I meant was you don't HAVE to use FireWire but it is compatible with FireWire but you can use usb. BUT I've since found out there is no USB only FireWire and ADAT so that unit is not for me anyway rolleyes.gif

That's the kind of thing I will have eventually and another mic.

Sorry for the confusion mate wink.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Jan 9 2016, 08:16 PM

Thanks Mertay and Todd.

Actually Todd, http://www.bonanzamarket.co.uk/listings/Avid-Digidesign-Eleven-Rack-Effect-Guitar-Processor-Interface-w-Expansion-Pack/215352467?gpid=68416460701&gpkwd=&goog_pla=1&gclid=Cj0KEQiA_MK0BRDQsf_bsZS-_OIBEiQADPf--iDIPN9kCJi-OWnMxfP7UJHcrZEajpXVW4w0sGduJ2UaApjj8P8HAQ has just appeared. It's almost worth buying now and putting to one side until I've got the Peavey and the current mic sorted. But we know that would never happen, a new piece of gear sitting in its box??? No no no no laugh.gif

Can you record two mics and direct with the Elevenrack, I'm liking the idea of doing that eventually.

Cheers

UPDATE:
Eeeeek, scrub that Elevenrack, £90 shipping so must be coming from the States. sad.gif

OK, another test, bridge pickup on PRS Ace, clean channel on Blackstar with gain on full, first time ISF control all left, 2nd centre, 3rd all right. See if you can hear anything different other than the ISF, all other recordings have been done with ISF central.

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/blackstar-full-gain-clean


Some pics to see the difference to the Blackstar and a couple of none comparison pics wink.gif







Thank you gentlemen smile.gif

Posted by: Todd Simpson Jan 10 2016, 05:15 AM

The 11 Rack has only 1 XLR input/mic preamp on board. So not meant for multiple mic recording. For that your looking at a dedicated multichannel audio interface smile.gif


QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jan 9 2016, 02:16 PM) *
Thanks Mertay and Todd.

Actually Todd, http://www.bonanzamarket.co.uk/listings/Avid-Digidesign-Eleven-Rack-Effect-Guitar-Processor-Interface-w-Expansion-Pack/215352467?gpid=68416460701&gpkwd=&goog_pla=1&gclid=Cj0KEQiA_MK0BRDQsf_bsZS-_OIBEiQADPf--iDIPN9kCJi-OWnMxfP7UJHcrZEajpXVW4w0sGduJ2UaApjj8P8HAQ has just appeared. It's almost worth buying now and putting to one side until I've got the Peavey and the current mic sorted. But we know that would never happen, a new piece of gear sitting in its box??? No no no no laugh.gif

Can you record two mics and direct with the Elevenrack, I'm liking the idea of doing that eventually.

Cheers

UPDATE:
Eeeeek, scrub that Elevenrack, £90 shipping so must be coming from the States. sad.gif

OK, another test, bridge pickup on PRS Ace, clean channel on Blackstar with gain on full, first time ISF control all left, 2nd centre, 3rd all right. See if you can hear anything different other than the ISF, all other recordings have been done with ISF central.

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/blackstar-full-gain-clean


Some pics to see the difference to the Blackstar and a couple of none comparison pics wink.gif







Thank you gentlemen smile.gif


Posted by: Mertay Jan 10 2016, 02:04 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jan 9 2016, 07:16 PM) *
See if you can hear anything different other than the ISF, all other recordings have been done with ISF central.

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/blackstar-full-gain-clean


The hint of reverb?

Posted by: Phil66 Jan 10 2016, 03:05 PM

The reverb is set the same as the others but I angled the mic about thirty degrees point to the other cab and had the other cab running too. My ears aren't tuned in enough to know if you could hear the other cab at all.

Cheers smile.gif

Posted by: Mertay Jan 10 2016, 06:28 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jan 10 2016, 02:05 PM) *
The reverb is set the same as the others but I angled the mic about thirty degrees point to the other cab and had the other cab running too. My ears aren't tuned in enough to know if you could hear the other cab at all.

Cheers smile.gif


Probably thats why I suspected the reverb as it got more obvious specially with the british side of isf. It very normal not to notice cause the 2 different characters combine when 2 cab.s are at use at the same time.

The studio approach is recording 2 cab.s but later using the levels of channels blend them, so say one cab. is fatter sounding to the other and when only listening the other the sound felt harsh. We slowly decrease the harsh ones level and increase the other till we get a sweetspot.

Yeah both at the same level can be used but usually its a compination of choice. 1 mic. for 2 cab.s is a nice experiment though smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Jan 11 2016, 02:00 PM

Peavey has arrived. I'll mic it up when I get home wink.gif

Posted by: Mertay Jan 11 2016, 03:09 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jan 11 2016, 01:00 PM) *
Peavey has arrived. I'll mic it up when I get home wink.gif


Awesome! smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Jan 11 2016, 10:19 PM

Ok, so far I think the cab sounds better than the direct XLR. Also, it doesn't seem to make much difference going from 1watt to 20 watts using the direct XLR.
I used my Mexican HSH Strat so I could use single coil on the clean tones (bridge and neck).
I do think there is a lot of potential here wink.gif

Ok, here's some recordings with direct XLR: Clean Vol 5, bass, midd, treb all at 5, reverb at 3, Vari-class full a/b, master volume 8.

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/clean-xlr

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/gain-5-xlr

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/gain-10-xlr

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/gain-10-with-boost-xlr

And here are some with the mic. Clean vol 3 master volume 2.5. On the gain channel I could only run master vol at 1.8. All done in 5watt mode. Eq and Vari-class as above.

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/clean

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/lead-gain-5

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/lead-gain-10

Cheers


Posted by: Mertay Jan 11 2016, 10:43 PM

I loved it!!!

Damn I wrote some stuff but somehow browser had a problem and lost what I wrote sad.gif

Both sounds great!! the subtle noise from the xlr is caused by sitting position, just give the guitar some angle from the computer and it will go away.

The mic.ed felt more like home to me but the xlr replicates a giant cab. sort of thing pretty good. Amazing how good it sounds on eq's flat positions! feel free to experiment but I guess the knobs won't be too far from the middle when you find your defoult setting.

Gain with the xlr felt a bit more crushed at 10 (felt better mic.ed at that level), I guess no need to pass around 8 specially as you have a pedal to boost anyway. Which cab. was that?

Posted by: Phil66 Jan 11 2016, 11:10 PM

Thanks Mertay,

The cab was the Harley Benton. I used my Mexican HSH Strat so I could coil tap for the cleans.

Apparently the direct xlr emulates a mic 8" away from cone.

I haven't messed with the Vari-Class but I found it interesting that when using class A the power output can be reduced by up to 60%

Thanks Mertay, I'm pleased with it and the new cab. I'm wondering if I should get rid of the other Blackstar cab. I can only go down to 8ohms with this head and in need 4ohms if I run two 8ohm cabs at once.

When using the xlr direct I can't have the speaker on because the output is low so the volume knob has to be up on 8. Would the PreSonus work in between amp and interface so I can hear the cab?

Is there anything you'd like me to try for you to hear?


Cheers

Posted by: Mertay Jan 12 2016, 12:05 AM

The blackstar cab. is up to you, you still have the other heads...my suggestion would be giving it some time. On the long run if you're not using a unit thats the best indication if you can sell it or not.

When using the xlr direct I can't have the speaker on because the output is low so the volume knob has to be up on 8. Would the PreSonus work in between amp and interface so I can hear the cab?

Could you open this a little? so the xlr and cab. can both work at the same time?

As for the sounds from the amp, I'll leave it for you to try smile.gif just experiment sounds you personally like and feel you could use for recording, if you get lost while dialing settings just remember the all eq's in the middle sounds perfect and if you turn some knobs to extremes and not feeling sure share sound examples again so we can comment ton them.

Best for now is getting to know the unit by experimenting (fun!! smile.gif ) but also try finding a default setting so you won't have to reach the knobs more often than needed.

Posted by: Phil66 Jan 12 2016, 08:38 AM

QUOTE (Mertay @ Jan 11 2016, 11:05 PM) *
When using the xlr direct I can't have the speaker on because the output is low so the volume knob has to be up on 8. Would the PreSonus work in between amp and interface so I can hear the cab?

Could you open this a little? so the xlr and cab. can both work at the same time?


Thanks Mertay,

Yes you can output to the cab AND the xlr, there is a speaker defeat button on the back. You can also use headphones with the speaker on or off and the usb out with speaker on or off. I think you can actually use the xlr out, the usb out AND headphones all at the same time with the speaker on or off.

I'll experiment but I won't let it have too much impact on my practice wink.gif My problem is, I like so many different guitar tones I struggle to settle on one for myself and it changes with my daily mood biggrin.gif

Cheers

Phil

Update:

I've just remembered, when I got the PreSonus mic preamp, I turned down the mic preamp in the GT-001. I'll check that out as soon as I get chance wink.gif

Posted by: Fran Jan 12 2016, 10:58 AM

I have GAS for a purplish flamed maple top ibanez, with matching headstock, if such thing even exists smile.gif

Edit: Also a Marshall full stack with my own concert room to crank it up tongue.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Jan 12 2016, 11:52 AM

QUOTE (Fran @ Jan 12 2016, 09:58 AM) *
I have GAS for a purplish flamed maple top ibanez, with matching headstock, if such thing even exists smile.gif


I'm sure Rob Balducci has one of those that he used for his Violet Horizon album. I'll try to find a pic wink.gif

Posted by: Mertay Jan 12 2016, 11:56 AM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jan 12 2016, 07:38 AM) *
Thanks Mertay,

Yes you can output to the cab AND the xlr, there is a speaker defeat button on the back. You can also use headphones with the speaker on or off and the usb out with speaker on or off. I think you can actually use the xlr out, the usb out AND headphones all at the same time with the speaker on or off.

I'll experiment but I won't let it have too much impact on my practice wink.gif My problem is, I like so many different guitar tones I struggle to settle on one for myself and it changes with my daily mood biggrin.gif

Cheers

Phil

Update:

I've just remembered, when I got the PreSonus mic preamp, I turned down the mic preamp in the GT-001. I'll check that out as soon as I get chance wink.gif


Cool! since you cab. and xlr out sound different its like you have an extra cab. for recording smile.gif

Now from what I understand you need to seriously increase the amps volume for the xlr to have a decent output but then the cab. is too loud correct?

That may be a problem cause either one of the signals much be weak for the other to be proper, which means one of them will have added noise. My guess would be the xlr might be a bit less noisey, you can increase its gain digitally from DAW but yeah check the presonus too when you have the time. We'll have to experiment on that matter.

As for tones now is the time to go crazy smile.gif its a versatile amp with many sounds in it but in time I'm sure you'll start noticing using certain adjustments, thats when defoults settings will start to appear so no rush with using the pedal for now.

Posted by: Phil66 Jan 12 2016, 12:08 PM

That's not exactly what you want Fran, but it is sweet. Mr Balducci's Violet Horizon RG wink.gif


Thanks Mertay,

Don't forget I need to check the mic preamp gain in the GT-001 too wink.gif

Cheers

Update:

I had got the preamp for the mic input set very low in the GT-001 because I had been using it with the PreSonus. This is direct xlr again. Seems better to me. When you get five minutes please have a listen. Thank again for your time and patience. I'm going to experiment a little now so you will have some peace for a few days wink.gif

1 watt mode.
Clean vol 5, master vol 3:
https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/clean-xlr-gt001-preamp-adjusted

Gain 5, Master vol 2.8
https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/crunch-xlr-gt001-preamp-adjusted

Gain 10, Master vol 2
https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/drive-xlr-gt001-preamp-adjusted-2

Posted by: Mertay Jan 13 2016, 10:33 AM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jan 12 2016, 11:08 AM) *
...



The noise is all gone and sounds cleaner/more upfront, technically this is the ideal thing but musically it might make you prefer the mic.ed sound more depending on tonal expectation.

What I'll suggest to try is again including the presonus but now the gain rather low on it (no changes on the gt001) and test the drive knob. I wonder if that can make it a little more organic sounding, make sure to check the noise level too as you see mixing preamps is tricky smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Jan 13 2016, 02:03 PM

Thanks Mertay
The gain in the GT 001 was on full and I still wasn't hitting 0db on the clean setting.
I'll have a go in a day or two.
Cheers buddy.

Update.

If you want to hear it with a backing look http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=56472&view=findpost&p=725665 It's not superb playing at all, it's a theory workshop but it's in a mix, it has some added chorus from the GT-001 too.

Cheers

Posted by: Mertay Jan 13 2016, 11:31 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jan 13 2016, 01:03 PM) *
If you want to hear it with a backing look http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=56472&view=findpost&p=725665 It's not superb playing at all, it's a theory workshop but it's in a mix, it has some added chorus from the GT-001 too.

Cheers


QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jan 13 2016, 01:03 PM) *
If you want to hear it with a backing look http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=56472&view=findpost&p=725665 It's not superb playing at all, it's a theory workshop but it's in a mix, it has some added chorus from the GT-001 too.

Cheers


Cool, pretty clean, noise-free and dynamic sounding (maybe a bit too dynamic, some drive can help that for later recordings biggrin.gif ) though not the purpose the level of the guitar was a bit high.

A small trick; when you're done recording, playback the guitar and backing track but select "mono" from master channel. This might help adjusting the guitars volume compared to the backing track, I prefer headphones to really nail it but its really up to you to use it or not. Oh nad don't forget to untick mono from the master when you're going to render smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Jan 13 2016, 11:42 PM

QUOTE (Mertay @ Jan 13 2016, 10:31 PM) *
Cool, pretty clean, noise-free and dynamic sounding (maybe a bit too dynamic, some drive can help that for later recordings biggrin.gif ) though not the purpose the level of the guitar was a bit high.

A small trick; when you're done recording, playback the guitar and backing track but select "mono" from master channel. This might help adjusting the guitars volume compared to the backing track, I prefer headphones to really nail it but its really up to you to use it or not. Oh nad don't forget to untick mono from the master when you're going to render smile.gif

Thanks Mertay,

Your answer confused me blink.gif laugh.gif I had the drive on the PreSonus at about a quarter, I don't know how to reduce dynamics though wink.gif I also don't understand what you mean about "untucking the mono" blink.gif

I apologise for my ignorance and thank you for your help smile.gif

Cheers

Phil

Posted by: Mertay Jan 13 2016, 11:58 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jan 13 2016, 10:42 PM) *
Thanks Mertay,

Your answer confused me blink.gif laugh.gif I had the drive on the PreSonus at about a quarter, I don't know how to reduce dynamics though wink.gif I also don't understand what you mean about "untucking the mono" blink.gif

I apologise for my ignorance and thank you for your help smile.gif

Cheers

Phil


hehe no problem smile.gif let me give a little detail;

Dynamics; it means from how quiet to loud the guitar (or anything) can go. By saying too much I ment hard picking really produced loud results. Its not about you playing, clean guitars can do that. To reduce (or lets say balance) driving the amp should help.

by drive I ment the amps drive smile.gif

Also I ment un-ticking mono button from the master track when you're going to render smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Jan 14 2016, 08:39 PM

QUOTE (Mertay @ Jan 13 2016, 10:58 PM) *
by drive I ment the amps drive smile.gif


Thanks Mertay,

I didn't have any drive on the amp, I was on the clean channel. Clean volume on 5 master on 2.5

Cheers

Posted by: Fran Jan 15 2016, 12:01 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jan 12 2016, 01:08 PM) *
That's not exactly what you want Fran, but it is sweet. Mr Balducci's Violet Horizon RG wink.gif


It's nice indeed, even has a reverse headstock, cool smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Jan 16 2016, 10:19 AM

Yeah it's sweet, he has some lovely guitars made at the L.A Custom Shop, https://www.instagram.com/p/BAVeNdbConH/ are some more, I love the black and white one.

Mertay, there is another recording with direct xlr and no added effects http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=56472&view=findpost&p=725803, when you get a little time it would be great if you could have a listen to the tone. Thanks smile.gif


Posted by: Mertay Jan 16 2016, 07:00 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jan 16 2016, 09:19 AM) *
Mertay, there is another recording with direct xlr and no added effects http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=56472&view=findpost&p=725803, when you get a little time it would be great if you could have a listen to the tone. Thanks smile.gif



Had a sleepover last night checking now smile.gif

sounds good you got used to this amp really fast smile.gif if I really had to try find a fault in the tone, I'd only say the mid eq could have slightly been lesser but its really more of a preferation territory as nothing wrong.

The di to me seems solved once you figured the preamp settings and got rid of noise. Next time lets try the mic. smile.gif one nice thing about di is you have a source to compared the mic. sound to analyze if the mic. position is right or wrong, sure its a different sound but should help to figure out if your tone is too bright or too bassy when compared.

Posted by: Phil66 Jan 16 2016, 07:21 PM

Thanks Mertay,

I'll use the mic next time, all eq was 12'o'clock but it was a Strat on humbuckers wink.gif

Cheers

Update:

I forgot it was recorded using Class A, here is the same setup (no backing) using class A/B wink.gif

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/class-ab

Posted by: Mertay Jan 16 2016, 09:41 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jan 16 2016, 06:21 PM) *
I forgot it was recorded using Class A, here is the same setup (no backing) using class A/B wink.gif

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/class-ab


Nice cool.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Jan 16 2016, 09:44 PM

The A/B sounds a little brighter to me but that's about all, my ears are developing slowly smile.gif

Posted by: Todd Simpson Jan 17 2016, 12:10 AM

Congrats on your amp and on how quick you are adapting to it! smile.gif You are ready to gig/record, whatever comes, you are ready on the gear front fo sho!:)

Todd


QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jan 16 2016, 03:44 PM) *
The A/B sounds a little brighter to me but that's about all, my ears are developing slowly smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Jan 17 2016, 11:01 AM

Thanks Todd smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Jan 17 2016, 09:59 PM

Ok folks,
http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=56472&view=findpost&p=725865 is another take for the theory workshop, Using the SM57, Lead gain 4.75, eq 12'o'clock, Class A/b, master vol 2, HSH Strat, humbucker on Bridge, tone full up, vol around halfway.
Some of the playing is what I call "nursery rhyme like" from around 0:18-20 but I was just experimenting. There are some high string double stops in there.
It would be nice to hear what you think about this tone as I am hitting the treble strings quite hard on the double stops.
Thank you for your time smile.gif
By the way, that mono thing for when you're mixing helps, how does that work?????
https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/assignment-1-take-5

Next purchase but not just yet. I don't want to buy something to make do for now and then buy again later so I want to cover the future for a while at least. I want an interface that can record 2 mics (SM57 and XLR out on amp) and a dry signal. That should cover everything I need. I also want to be able to mute the SM57 signal so I don't have to use headphones, I can do this with my GT-001 simply by going into the tuner and selecting "mute", it still allows the signal to be recorded though, this is how I recorded this.

Thank you again.

Posted by: Mertay Jan 17 2016, 10:54 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jan 17 2016, 08:59 PM) *
Ok folks,
http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=56472&view=findpost&p=725865 is another take for the theory workshop, Using the SM57, Lead gain 4.75, eq 12'o'clock, Class A/b, master vol 2, HSH Strat, humbucker on Bridge, tone full up, vol around halfway.
Some of the playing is what I call "nursery rhyme like" from around 0:18-20 but I was just experimenting. There are some high string double stops in there.
It would be nice to hear what you think about this tone as I am hitting the treble strings quite hard on the double stops.
Thank you for your time smile.gif
By the way, that mono thing for when you're mixing helps, how does that work?????
https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/assignment-1-take-5

Next purchase but not just yet. I don't want to buy something to make do for now and then buy again later so I want to cover the future for a while at least. I want an interface that can record 2 mics (SM57 and XLR out on amp) and a dry signal. That should cover everything I need. I also want to be able to mute the SM57 signal so I don't have to use headphones, I can do this with my GT-001 simply by going into the tuner and selecting "mute", it still allows the signal to be recorded though, this is how I recorded this.

Thank you again.


A small trick; when you're done recording, playback the guitar and backing track but select "mono" from master channel. This might help adjusting the guitars volume compared to the backing track, I prefer headphones to really nail it but its really up to you to use it or not. Oh nad don't forget to untick mono from the master when you're going to render smile.gif

The tone itself was cool but with that backing track it was too upfront meaning level a bit high and tone a bit bright. It would be unfair to expect detailed eq adjustments from you at this point but if you could try adjusting the levels a bit more dailed it would be great.

The logic is like, as we listen to a good sounding album every instrument can be heard. I guess what I'm trying to say is we can try a little harder to make your solos more album like sounding.

I copy/pasted my previous "mono" trick again, a (sort of) mixing rule is if a song sounds good in mono it should sound much better (less imbalances) on stereo. Thats the reason there is a mono button on DAW master output channels, to check how the mix sounds on mono. Might help or not, but you can use this to figure out if your guitar track is too loud or quiet when played back with the backing track. Just give it a shot smile.gif

I remember we had a "hone your tone" topic sometime ago, might also help posting there too.

As for a soundcard, it might be good to make a topic for that as its better if other members are involved cause most of them use soundcards and can comment on what they use atleast. But for the muteing thing I still think that can be done from the DAW but not sure if there is an issue reaper specific.


Posted by: Phil66 Jan 17 2016, 11:51 PM

Thanks Mertay,
I don't mind if I can mute output inside Reaper but I can't see how to do it.
I'm currently looking at https://www.roland.co.uk/products/quad-capture/
Cheers smile.gif

Posted by: Mertay Jan 18 2016, 10:43 AM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jan 17 2016, 10:51 PM) *
I'm currently looking at https://www.roland.co.uk/products/quad-capture/
Cheers smile.gif


Thats only 2 input, you need 3. Todd uses an affordable 4 input soundcard but I couldn't remember the brand or model (not sold where I live anyway), make sure to ask him about what he uses. As for reaper I have to test it for myself.

Posted by: Phil66 Jan 18 2016, 01:50 PM

Thanks Mertay,
I see, I thought quad capture would be four simultaneous rolleyes.gif but it has four inputs just only two at a time, they are combination XLR and TRS.
When the time is right I'll put a new thread out about interfaces.

Cheers dude smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Jan 18 2016, 09:14 PM

Hello Mertay,

Same amp/mic settings. Ibanez RG1570, neck pickup, guitar vol about half way. I've tried to mix it better this time wink.gif WOuld be great when you have some free time to have a listen. Thanks.

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/assignment-1-take-6

Posted by: Mertay Jan 18 2016, 10:45 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jan 18 2016, 08:14 PM) *
Hello Mertay,

Same amp/mic settings. Ibanez RG1570, neck pickup, guitar vol about half way. I've tried to mix it better this time wink.gif WOuld be great when you have some free time to have a listen. Thanks.

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/assignment-1-take-6


Nailed it! smile.gif

I highly suggest next time adjusting levels such before the main recording. That way, say the backing track at some point gets louder or quiet this will invite you to adjust your picking strength in a musical way (probably without even thinking abou it).

After a while when you feel comfortable adjusting levels, to really blend in the sound we'll try small adjustments with the amps eq. Remind this to me in say 5-6 more assignments later smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Jan 18 2016, 11:04 PM

Thanks Mertay,
I've posted a couple in the "hone your tone" thread. I made a little joke about you and me but it is just a joke biggrin.gif
That backing doesn't seem to alter much in volume though. My ears aren't that good just yet though and I struggle to listen hard to the backing while I play, I just get a general fell for it:)
I think it may be harder being levels right to start with, with the guitar coming from my amp and backing coming from monitors unless I misunderstood what you meant.
Thank you

Posted by: Mertay Jan 18 2016, 11:53 PM

biggrin.gif not exaust but things are a bit busier these days, I tend to write shorter if I have stuff in my head I must get rid of smile.gif

How you approach to a backing is cool right now, feeling the groove and enjoying it smile.gif but as you progress you'll notice its actually lesser about how you feel but how to make the listener feel in a certain way if that makes sense smile.gif

Then stuff like when the snare hits, a certain chords etc. will affect your playing when you feel more comfortable with the fretboard and listen more to the backing. Sure it takes time to get there but it will happen eventually smile.gif

You can make a test recording to pre-adjust the levels. Just jam a few notes from the guitar, record and listen then do any adjustments needed from the DAW or amp.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Jan 19 2016, 02:56 AM

Just as an aside, i've been testing the Iconnectivity 4+ which has four inputs and it's darn spiff. For the money, it's hard to beat. They go about #299. It has very flexible internal routing but that's nothing to worry about now. In short its a great four input usb interface that can put up to four tracks on four separate tracks on your daw So you could do two or three mics and a direct input all at the same time smile.gif

http://www.iconnectivity.com/




QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jan 18 2016, 07:50 AM) *
Thanks Mertay,
I see, I thought quad capture would be four simultaneous rolleyes.gif but it has four inputs just only two at a time, they are combination XLR and TRS.
When the time is right I'll put a new thread out about interfaces.

Cheers dude smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Jan 19 2016, 09:30 AM

QUOTE (Mertay @ Jan 18 2016, 10:53 PM) *
biggrin.gif not exaust but things are a bit busier these days, I tend to write shorter if I have stuff in my head I must get rid of smile.gif

How you approach to a backing is cool right now, feeling the groove and enjoying it smile.gif but as you progress you'll notice its actually lesser about how you feel but how to make the listener feel in a certain way if that makes sense smile.gif

Then stuff like when the snare hits, a certain chords etc. will affect your playing when you feel more comfortable with the fretboard and listen more to the backing. Sure it takes time to get there but it will happen eventually smile.gif

You can make a test recording to pre-adjust the levels. Just jam a few notes from the guitar, record and listen then do any adjustments needed from the DAW or amp.


Thanks Mertay,
I really have appreciated your help and I haven't intentionally taken advantage of you kindness I just tend to get really interested with things like this and my enthusiasm takes over. Please please always tell me when you don't have time and please never feel obliged to answer quickly. If you don't answer, I 100% understand, I really don't expect you to put me before your own work, projects and hobbies.
I feel bad about it now. Sorry mate.

QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jan 19 2016, 01:56 AM) *
Just as an aside, i've been testing the Iconnectivity 4+ which has four inputs and it's darn spiff. For the money, it's hard to beat. They go about #299. It has very flexible internal routing but that's nothing to worry about now. In short its a great four input usb interface that can put up to four tracks on four separate tracks on your daw So you could do two or three mics and a direct input all at the same time smile.gif

http://www.iconnectivity.com/


Thanks Todd that looks great.
I'll check it out later. Can you mute the output from a signal but still record it, like I can in GT001? Or do you know how to do that in Reaper?

Cheers mate smile.gif

Posted by: Todd Simpson Jan 26 2016, 09:12 AM

The internal routing/mixing is insanely flexible so yeah you can mute or route anything you like wink.gif


QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jan 19 2016, 03:30 AM) *
Thanks Todd that looks great.
I'll check it out later. Can you mute the output from a signal but still record it, like I can in GT001? Or do you know how to do that in Reaper?

Cheers mate smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Jan 26 2016, 09:31 AM

Thanks Todd,
So I can definitely stop my mic'd guitar coming from the monitors while I'm still recording it? Sorry to be a pain but I really want to be sure because I mic the amp right by my desk so you can appreciate the problems if the signal is getting to the monitors wink.gif
Cheers dude

Posted by: Todd Simpson Jan 27 2016, 06:19 AM

You can route and monitor it any way you like. Only problem is the software control of the routing/monitoring can be confusing so it may be easier just to turn off monitoring of such tracks inside your daw. You can still record/arm a track without monitoring it. smile.gif IT's tough having your amps in the same space as your monitors. thus the iso cab.s However, for recording, you can put your amp/cab in a closet somewhere and use it as an Iso booth. Because at the end of the day, what is coming through the monitors is FAR more important during recording. What you hear through your desk monitors is what you will hear during the mix so just trusting the amp and hoping for the best can be very frustrating. sad.gif

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jan 26 2016, 03:31 AM) *
Thanks Todd,
So I can definitely stop my mic'd guitar coming from the monitors while I'm still recording it? Sorry to be a pain but I really want to be sure because I mic the amp right by my desk so you can appreciate the problems if the signal is getting to the monitors wink.gif
Cheers dude

Posted by: Phil66 Jan 27 2016, 06:31 AM

QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jan 27 2016, 05:19 AM) *
Because at the end of the day, what is coming through the monitors is FAR more important during recording. What you hear through your desk monitors is what you will hear during the mix so just trusting the amp and hoping for the best can be very frustrating. sad.gif


Thanks Todd, very valid comment but my closets are full in every room rolleyes.gif so for now I am experimenting by playing and listening in order to get what I want sound wise. I don't know why, but playing through an amp feels sweet compared to software.
Before I buy I'll have a play with Reaper to see how to turn off monitoring. I've seen the button on each track but it doesn't seem to do anything.
Cheers buddy smile.gif

Posted by: Mertay Jan 28 2016, 10:56 PM

Opened reaper (downloaded latest version today), just pressed the red record button on the track and hit record...and it recorded without sound.

As for recording with amp, always take a short test recording to hear how your tone is. Once the eq's are adjusted on the amp its ok to monitor from the amp in the same room. You will have to memorise the eq's by ear from the amp though,it will take time but will be very rewarding.

Posted by: Phil66 Jan 30 2016, 09:07 PM

Thanks Mertay,
I've tried clicking on the record monitor monitor button (below the pan knob) but I always get sound from the track. I don't know what else to do.

Cheers dude

Posted by: Todd Simpson Jan 30 2016, 09:32 PM

Have you tried turning OFF the monitor button? As long as the track is armed it will still record smile.gif

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jan 30 2016, 03:07 PM) *
Thanks Mertay,
I've tried clicking on the record monitor monitor button (below the pan knob) but I always get sound from the track. I don't know what else to do.

Cheers dude

Posted by: Phil66 Jan 30 2016, 09:53 PM

Thanks Todd,
Track 5 on the image below, still puts sound out to the monitors, I've cycled through all of the options on the record monitor button. I don't want to buy my new interface until i get this right, may though, it's something to do with the GT-001?



Cheers buddy

Posted by: Mertay Jan 31 2016, 09:53 PM

direct monitoring might need to be turned off (from soundcard)?

Posted by: Phil66 Jan 31 2016, 10:14 PM

Thanks Mertay, I've had a quick look and can't find that, I'll look again tomorrow.

Cheers buddy.

Posted by: Phil66 Feb 5 2016, 12:01 PM

Nope. Still can't find anything obvious sad.gif

Posted by: Mertay Feb 5 2016, 12:09 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Feb 5 2016, 11:01 AM) *
Nope. Still can't find anything obvious sad.gif


I remember nooding with my reapers gui sometime ago and some things never reverted, might be a good idea to ask the reaper forum.

Posted by: Phil66 Feb 5 2016, 06:17 PM

Thanks Mertay,

I tried that some time ago and got no answer. I'll try again this evening smile.gif

Posted by: Mertay Feb 5 2016, 07:02 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Feb 5 2016, 05:17 PM) *
Thanks Mertay,

I tried that some time ago and got no answer. I'll try again this evening smile.gif


I still suspect it might be a soundcard thing but lets be patient to make sure its not a reaper thing. On the reaper forum, make sure to share your gt001 input/output routing too just incase.

Posted by: Phil66 Feb 5 2016, 08:11 PM

Thanks Mertay,

What do you mean with input output routing?

Cheers

Posted by: Mertay Feb 5 2016, 09:00 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Feb 5 2016, 07:11 PM) *
Thanks Mertay,

What do you mean with input output routing?

Cheers


You know, the funky routing you had to ask at the reaper forum when setting the gt001 for re-amping smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Feb 5 2016, 09:10 PM

Ahh, sorry DOH rolleyes.gif

The thing is I don't always use that reamping and I still get the same problem with a normal single track recording, I think it's best I don't confuse them with that one biggrin.gif wink.gif

Cheers Mertay.

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