Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: wollace03 Aug 31 2012, 11:55 AM

Hi!

everytime when we write songs and it comes to the solo spots I sit at home wondering what to play. I always end up playing the same stuff and I often get the feeling, that I just play the solo so that there is a solo in that songs. This has a lot to do with my limitations when it comes to playing but also that I somehow have no concept of how to create "killer solos".
I really like great solos that often are not very difficult but put the notes on the right places and sound amazing.
so, my question is:
how do you create solos? do you just put together some licks and see where it leads you, or do you jam over the given backing track until you find good licks?
Or do you have a melody or a complete idea of the solo that you then try do play on the guitar? do you think that there should at least be on short passage that really shows your skills (and helps you move forward when praticing it).
I guess everyone of us wants to play that killer solos when it comes to playing a solo....

Posted by: Max Sokolov Aug 31 2012, 12:16 PM

For me, it's a process that combines singing and using\modifying licks I already know.
I think, that the key is to sing - that will help you to get out of "guitar licks jail"

Posted by: wollace03 Aug 31 2012, 12:35 PM

do you try to compose and then sing or hum the solo you wanna play before applying it to the guitar?

Posted by: Ben Higgins Aug 31 2012, 01:42 PM

Hi ! I would say that for me it's mostly the second approach. I'll hum some ideas in my head and then try to translate them onto guitar. When I've got a few licks in place I'll see where they flow onto next..

In a lot of case, creating a solo is like getting a few basic chunks in place like a beginning, middle and end.. and then joining the dots together in a nice, flowing transition

Posted by: Max Sokolov Aug 31 2012, 10:19 PM

Right! Of course, not the whole solo in one take

Posted by: thefireball Aug 31 2012, 11:45 PM

I feel the same thing, wollace03. I'm exactly in your place. My problem is don't have any melodies that come to my head. Not really. And any leads that do come to my head - they are WAY out of my league for now...Like: Jeff Loomis style.

Posted by: The Uncreator Sep 1 2012, 12:03 AM

Most of mine are just polished improvisations. I just play, I dont think about a melody or the key, I never use theory or anything, I just play what I feel should be played.

Posted by: Socky42 Sep 1 2012, 12:39 AM

I just improvise over the rhythm or whatever, then i keep adding and changing till it sounds good.

Posted by: MonkeyDAthos Sep 1 2012, 03:05 AM

i actually do the same when i am composing something, for some reason i feel like i am cheating xD

Posted by: Amir Razmara Sep 1 2012, 04:38 AM

Hi There I would like through my own 2 cents in the pot if I may...
I have provided a link to few famous paintings, why don't you go there look at them now !!!

http://www.mostinterestingfacts.com/art/top-10-most-famous-paintings-in-the-world-ever.html

The difference between a painting & a piece of music is painting exists withing a certain space and music within time..other words music is the art in time. when you stand in front of a painting you can look at the whole thing and appreciate all the details, but for music you have to allow time to pass because the details are happening in the moment, a complicated way to answer your question may be, but in short I would suggest you record your music/solos and listen back to the whole thing and see what is missing, I imagine the master painters did the same thing as they began with the empty canvas and kept adding all the details :-))

http://www.mostinterestingfacts.com/art/top-10-most-famous-paintings-in-the-world-ever.html

Posted by: wollace03 Sep 1 2012, 08:29 AM

so jamming, recording, listening - adjusting, jamming, recording and so on could be a proper way.....
and learning millions of licks so that I can play differnt things when jamming.


but I will try to compose a solo in my head first and then try to play it on guitar...

fireball, feels good to hear, that I am not the only one who feels uninspired and unable to come up with blazing solos...

Posted by: Ben Higgins Sep 1 2012, 11:36 AM

It is true that when you're jamming, you're able to reference licks that you have already learnt but sometimes you just manage to pull things out of the air and think 'what the hell ? How did I do that ?'

However, it's not particularly necessary to arm yourself with millions of licks in order to be able to compose. A lot of players have said that they developed their technique and licks by just trying to translate what they heard in their head onto their guitars.

So, if you want to be adept at jamming and improvisation then yes, it helps to develop lots of licks but if you want to be adept at composing which, in my opinion, is a completely different skill, then it's about spending more time allowing yourself to come up with melodies and experiment. Practise coming up with melodies in you head. The more you do it, the better you get

Posted by: Todd Simpson Sep 1 2012, 12:48 PM

This is a really great question. It's a really long answer that can be summed up with.

"Your solo writing, like your song writing, is a product of your experience, training and inspiration"

The more of each of those you have, the better

As for building solo licks. Some tips.

1.) Listen to the solo section and try to hear the solo in your head before you play it. Even if you couldn't play what you hear, don't limit yourself. Hear it as wild as you like.

2.) Try to think what chops you know that sound somewhat like that solo in your head.

3.) One lick at a time. Try to find where each lick might fit. Make sure you are playing in the right key (e.g starting / ending near a root especially at first)

4.)Don't think you have to play the entire time. Leave bits out. Hold notes and use vibrato. Let it breathe.

Todd

Posted by: Will Kriski Sep 1 2012, 04:16 PM

This is a large topic but great solos are usually memorable because they are melodic and have great phrasing. Try taking a small phrase (just a few notes) - a motif, and repeating it a couple times. The repeat could be not the same notes but up or down in the appropriate scale or that works over the current chord. When you repeat it you can also add to it, almost like answering the original phrase.

Great solos also have contrast - if you shred a section, then play some slower sections. If you play long phrases, play some short phrases. If you start on beat 1 a lot, try starting on other beats. If you do one thing the whole time (eg shred) it will be boring.

Observe what you like about killer solos. Do they repeat ideas? What do you like about it? Take one idea from the solo and use it in your own solos - maybe tweak it and develop it. Try writing down the solo instead of doing it on the guitar if you are caught in the same patterns.

I might think of a concept for a solo, like something I want to use in the solo. It could be an idea or technique such as double stops (Jimi Hendrix style), or a scale sound (phrygian dominant), chromaticism, chord tones, etc. You might start slow and low on the neck and then build up to a fast section high up on the neck.

If you like this solo I did you might notice how I repeated a few ideas with a little tweak here and there. I hope you find it as melodic as I did - I avoided the usual shred solo that I used to do a lot of! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnBijtMX8-0

Will

Posted by: wollace03 Sep 1 2012, 07:21 PM

thanx for all the good advice!!

the main thing I found out is that you really have to compose the solo and try your best to bring the solo in your head translated to the guitar..

ben, todd and wil - thanx for the good points and good explainations

how do you decide what kind of scale, sound colour you choose?
I think one thing why I always sound the same is that I always use pentatonic or minor?
how do you decide to use harmonic minor or lydian or dorian....?

Posted by: The Uncreator Sep 1 2012, 07:23 PM

Alternatively, record your solo and then add the backing track. I do it all the time. That way staying in key is no problem, and you will learn how to make more interesting backings this way as well.

Posted by: Socky42 Sep 1 2012, 08:35 PM

Huh, thats an interesting, might have to give it a go someday.

Posted by: Ben Higgins Sep 2 2012, 08:36 AM

I've never encountered that technique either !! Weird but wonderful !

Posted by: wollace03 Sep 2 2012, 09:53 AM

sounds interesting and I think if you tackle a problem from a new direction yu will get a lot of different solutions....

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Sep 3 2012, 08:00 AM

My approach is based on singing in a LOT if not all the situations - the voice is the primary expression tool for me, because it's faster then the guitar. I mean, I sing and then transpose on the guitar and if, but only IF I want to use some exotic stuff - I take a close look at the harmonic progression and see where I have a sweet spot to implement an exotic mode maybe? 2-3 notes that bring out a cool flavor and presto! There you have it. DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF YOUR VOICE AND THE MUSIC IN YOU! This is the most common mistake which along with wanting to sound and play like famous guitarists, leads to a slow but sure erasure of musical personality.

Posted by: Alex Feather Sep 3 2012, 09:40 PM

I have a lot of cool methods on how to do that! Being a studio musician you have to come up with a solo on the spot and do a good job right away! First I am listening to the groove and making a decision what will I base my solo on it is all starts with a drummer and it depends on what he is playing! If the song has a vocal I will try to create a variation of the melody, spice it up a bit but keep the idea. Also a good idea is to base your solo on the hook this way you really putting it in listeners head! A lot of famous bands do it all the time!

Posted by: Max Sokolov Sep 4 2012, 05:58 AM

Great points, Alex!
Guitarists often forget about an opportunity to repeat vocal melodies and to sound cool this way)

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Sep 4 2012, 06:38 AM

Right! Great points Alex!

Posted by: Ben Higgins Sep 4 2012, 08:52 AM

I'm with you on the vocal melody thing. That is one of the best and most instant ways to create something that cannot fail to be cool !

I'm quite surprised that you use the drums as a reference point for your solo... interesting

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Sep 4 2012, 12:14 PM

It's always about the groove man I think the drums can provide excellent reference points - I am very used to work with my drummers and we usually phrase together a lot

Posted by: wollace03 Sep 4 2012, 02:14 PM

do you all write down the singers melodies when you are composing?

it is a very good idea to repeat the vocal melody of the for instance refrain when going into the solo (but somehow I never did this until now..).

as for the groove...do you make a backing track and programm the drums like your drummer is playing them or are you composing your solo during rehearsals?

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Sep 4 2012, 03:00 PM

I am always very aware of the vocal lines as in some situations I am doing them myself with Voodoo and in Aria I am writing all of them.

As for the drum grooves, I am writing down an initial groove which is closely related to that one played by the drummer and come up with all sorts of drum/ guitar moments, which at the rehearsal room, are being dissected and changed if necessary with the drummer

Posted by: Ben Higgins Sep 4 2012, 04:01 PM

I usually work the drums and guitars together for all the rhythm parts but never really approached solos like that.. interesting

Posted by: Marcus Siepen Sep 5 2012, 10:37 AM

It can be very tricky to find the right solo sometimes, normally I listen to the backing track for the lead and maybe jam a bit, just improvising. Sometimes I find a starting lick very easy and I try to build things from there. Normally I don't try to jam my way through the whole thing, I like to force myself out of my comfort zone, cause as long as I stay there and I just jam I tend to play more or less the same things, the licks that come easy. So when I have a starting point I try to compose my lead from there, really trying to avoid using the typical licks that I would play while just jamming. I like to listen to what was going on in the song before the solo, you can play around vocal lines or chord progressions, you can try to follow percussive elements from the drums, I try to find out what attracts me in the song and what might contribute to the leads.
And very ipmortant for me are two questions: Does the song really NEED a solo? I know, we all play guitar and we all want our lead spots from time to time, but there are songs that don't really need a solo in my opinion. Just take "Sirens" from Savatage for example, awesome Metal classic WITHOUT a solo! And even more important: Do I really have to fire my whole arsenal of tricks, or is a very simple solo better? To be hones it can be really boring in my opinion when players try to be Yngwie all over the place when there is just no need for that. But this is a matter of personal taste of course.

Posted by: Narzsa Sep 5 2012, 02:00 PM

Hi Mate,

This took me a while to crack myself, as the prospect of a solo can be a tad daunting (where the hell do you begin?!) so here are the lessons i learned and my views on the matter

-A solo is like a song within a song, it two will have a beginning a middle and and end, so break it up as much as possible

-There's no right way to go about it, and you may revise the solo multiple times until you get it where you want it.

-Like song writing, the more you do, the more experienced and better you get at it

-Look toward your favourite guitarists. What do they do? what licks and ideas do they employee? My favourite guitars tend to share a mix of
melody and shred. They pound out a couple of bars with some catchy sing along tunes, then change up with some runs or licks, then jump back in. Looking at what they play, helps you recognise the sound when you hear it and helps you under stand when to use it

-Listen to the backing track, and try to picture the sound of a lead playing over it. What is your hidden rock god playing? try to replicate

-slow down the backing track and plan out your solo bar by bar if you have to. Once you know its structure, the tricks you will employee you can gradually speed it up so you can play it accurately. Its also a great way to practice new techniques and make sure they are truly under your fingers

-look towards the chords of the backing track and the most prominent notes relative to that chord. These will be your strongest notes to use in your solo at that moment, so if you want to hang on a note, start or finish, those are the notes to hit or bend up to

-lastly. experiment, see what works best for you and keep trying new approaches

i hope this helps mate

Posted by: wollace03 Sep 5 2012, 02:20 PM

first of all: thanks again for all yout contributions to the question..

the hardest part I guess is to admit, that you have no idea and therefor it is better to play no solo than to play a bad solo.....

I started trying different approaches I read here and I have to say, that this led to a lot of good ideas for the solos I am working on right now...

But the most important part for me: listen as long to the song and the backing for the solo until I have an idea about what I want the solo to sound like...

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Sep 6 2012, 10:49 AM

It's ALWAYS better not to play a solo rather than playing an uninspired one - of course, if the choice is yours. If the job is about doing a solo for someone else, than ...off to the drawing board

Posted by: Marcus Siepen Sep 6 2012, 04:31 PM

Absolutely agreed, nobody needs an uninspired solo.

Posted by: wollace03 Sep 6 2012, 05:32 PM

then nobody needs half of my solos

no, its not that bad but I will work very hard to get better and more inspiring..

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Sep 7 2012, 07:38 AM

Well, who said they are uninspired?

Posted by: Ben Higgins Sep 7 2012, 09:35 AM

Yes, very good point. We have to approach our composition with discipline towards ourselves and chop away any excess that doesn't benefit the end result. It's always better to have less than too much

Posted by: wollace03 Sep 7 2012, 10:20 AM

I say that....
but there are some good spots now and then and I feel that I am moving in the right direction.... and thats important...
and concerning old solos I don´t like: I can always say, well I was young back then - and did´nt think too much (this is one advantage of beiing older)

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Sep 7 2012, 05:16 PM

It's important to always keep evolving and refine your taste and ears A well phrased solo, can be short or simple to play but it will beat the hell out of any other solo

Posted by: Alex Feather Sep 9 2012, 02:01 AM

Well the thing is if there is no vocal I will be playing off the drummer!
I don't know why but I am always concentrated on drummer and always trying to build my solo of the drum beats it helps to have some cool rhythmic ideas and I can take it in any direction from there!
I should make a lesson about it!

Posted by: wollace03 Sep 9 2012, 08:06 AM

hi alex!

yes, you should definitely make a lesson about it!! would be a great idea!

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Sep 9 2012, 03:20 PM

I agree as well! You should do it man!