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GMC Forum _ PRACTICE ROOM _ Splitting practice sessions up into…
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi May 9 2014, 03:18 AM
I usually talk here about my guitar practice notepad. There I write down my weekly/monthly goals, and the lessons/exercises chosen to achieve them. When I’m doing some practice for technique maintenance, I play for around 2 hours. When I have more time during the day to dedicate to practice and there is no composing inspiration I practice more time.
However, there is something different happening when I’m learning something new which I find tricky to play and/or memorize.
When working on a difficult passage I have found that practicing for 30 minutes - and then pause for a few hours will yield better results than practicing for 60 minutes in a row.
Does this happen to you? What’s your experience?
Posted by: klasaine May 9 2014, 07:20 AM
Practicing in concentrated yet shorter time periods is a technique that many musicians use. The jazz guitarist and great teacher Howard Roberts did (and taught) that as did jazz and studio guitarist Barney Kessel. BK said he'd practice in 15 minute intervals spread over the day.
Personally, I'm the opposite. When I have to learn something, I sit down and work on it until I get it at least relatively close to where it needs to be. Then I may take a break and/or start back at it the next day. I'm very methodical about working it slowly - for 3 hours if that's what it takes - and building up speed (or comprehension). I kinda lose myself in the process and lose track of time.
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu May 9 2014, 10:38 AM
Since my time has become very limited, I am usually trying to make up by starting early whenever I need to learn something new, if of course the context allows it.
I usually have about 4 hrs a day to practice and I am trying to make the best out of it - two sessions of two hours each, one in the morning and one in the evening are the thing for me nowadays. But you know, as we move through life, things can change, of course 
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi May 9 2014, 06:10 PM
I usually have about 4 hrs a day to practice and I am trying to make the best out of it - two sessions of two hours each, one in the morning and one in the evening are the thing for me nowadays. But you know, as we move through life, things can change, of course
Yeah, there are always unexpected situations. We must be always ready to say "no", but that's not always possible. Even what happens to me that music related things connected with my band are usually the reason why I have to post pone my practice routine. Does this happen to you? how do you feel about it?
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu May 10 2014, 01:04 PM
Usually band related things can be dealt with with the aid of the internet or the telephone and so on - rehearsals and music writing or practicing to get riffs tight and so on, or most of all singing and playing at the same time is great practice in itself
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi May 10 2014, 04:41 PM
Sure! It's cool when things can be arranged thanks to internet. In our case, we invest a lot of time in press, reunions with manager, press agent, going to events and things like that. It's part of our work, besides rehearsing, playing and composing.
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu May 11 2014, 02:12 PM
I know exactly what you are saying mate
For us, almost every Sunday evening is a band reunion alongside our PR/Manager - we discuss band aspects and activities and then, we usually enjoy a glass of wine and some cake at our favorite restaurant, where the chef is our friend and amazes us with new recipes ALL the time... it's really amazing
Posted by: verciazghra May 11 2014, 06:22 PM
I think 30 minutes is too much. I was watching this talk about how to establish long term memory. And if something is difficult for you to memorize, practicing it for 5 minutes with 10 minute breaks(which should optimally involve some physical activity and complete distraction from the subject), this should be repeated about 3 times before you've turned your short term memory into long term... at least according to the presentation I watched.
For tricky passages this has been my go-to method for a while now, and I've also included it to my main strategy for learning new words in foreign languages and other similar things.
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi May 11 2014, 10:54 PM
For us, almost every Sunday evening is a band reunion alongside our PR/Manager - we discuss band aspects and activities and then, we usually enjoy a glass of wine and some cake at our favorite restaurant, where the chef is our friend and amazes us with new recipes ALL the time... it's really amazing
That sounds like a nice plan mate.
For tricky passages this has been my go-to method for a while now, and I've also included it to my main strategy for learning new words in foreign languages and other similar things.
Interesting stuff... where have you been seeing that talk that you said?
Posted by: Hajduk May 11 2014, 11:05 PM
Thank you all for the great ideas I usually do a half hour on then 10 min off, going to mix it up a bit now.
Posted by: verciazghra May 12 2014, 12:19 AM
Interesting stuff... where have you been seeing that talk that you said?
Yea I actually heard it first in thishttp://jazzadvice.com/master-your-intervals-in-28-days/ where it says "the plan". The concept is called spaced learning.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OV4ZMsIJ6Y this was one of the examples I found but there's plenty of information on the subject. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_jMOcSejXI
Hope any of that is useful, I found it intriguing and try to incorporate it into my daily practice as much as I can.
Posted by: StaceyD May 12 2014, 01:05 AM
ooh this reminds me of something I looked into last year, regarding memory. I was interested in how to get things to shift from short into long term memory and came across a similar thing about spacing and not cramming..
This page talks a little more about it, and also has a link to an interesting study with mass learning and flashcards:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/everybody-is-stupid-except-you/201009/study-better-space-it-out-and-mix-it
another interesting experiment:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/everybody-is-stupid-except-you/201303/better-way-practice-piano-or-any-instrument
but what it ultimately comes down to, is the fact that spaced learning, whether it's within-session spacing, or between-session spacing forces you to concentrate more, as the material you're going through is as of yet, still unfamiliar. The theory behind it is that repeatedly going over something, too soon, can contribute to a diminished effort on each attempt.
Posted by: Hexabuzz May 12 2014, 03:09 AM
Here's another really good article on learning by breaking things up into shorter time periods:
http://www.bulletproofmusician.com/why-the-progress-in-the-practice-room-seems-to-disappear-overnight/
Posted by: dcz702 May 12 2014, 05:00 AM
However, there is something different happening when I’m learning something new which I find tricky to play and/or memorize.
When working on a difficult passage I have found that practicing for 30 minutes - and then pause for a few hours will yield better results than practicing for 60 minutes in a row.
Does this happen to you? What’s your experience?
Yes I agree I have seen it in my practice. When I practice a piece that's difficult for me I seem to get hung up on it and just repeat over and over the same piece, sometimes for a couple hours , and doesn't really feel like it's improved. But I have found i practice it slow and clean then make sure I have it down at a tempo I'm comfortable with, it's a lot easier the next day. So I have been practicing several different things this way, maybe 30 minutes on each then then next day I can see more improvement on everything, feels like I accomplish more this way.
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu May 12 2014, 12:20 PM
I think that generally, focus power is one of the crucial elements in one's development - how?
- some people can focus for longer periods of times or are sufficiently disciplined to do what's necessary
- other folks forget what they were doing in 5 minutes or get bored so quickly, that they can't even put two chords together
These are the extremes of course, because there are different degrees to the above mentioned cases, but generally, if you are good at analyzing yourself and more than anything, HONEST with yourself and about yourself, you will understand your abilities, pros and cons and you will act accordingly.
Why ruin a day, by trying to practice 8 hours, when you know you won't do it and feel guilty afterwards, rather than practicing 1 focused hour and feeling you could definitely do more and then do another focused hour in the evening and having 2 focused hours of practice one day - that's more than 3 hours of aimless noodling from the 8 hours you will never get to accomplish.
What I am trying to say here, is that you should take it easy and if in time, your discipline and focus power grows, which should be the case, if you really wanna get somewhere, you will become more and more able to play for longer periods of time with greater results.
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi May 12 2014, 03:07 PM
http://www.bulletproofmusician.com/why-the-progress-in-the-practice-room-seems-to-disappear-overnight/
Thanks for this link. I will save this article for reading later, it seems very interesting and on topic.
Cosmin said something interesting about the quantity of time that we dedicate to practice, and he marked the big different between quantity and quality.... it's much better to practice 2 hours very focused, than 8 without concentration.
How is your approach? How many hours per day do you dedicate to practice? Do you think that you are using this time wisely?
Posted by: klasaine May 12 2014, 03:30 PM
I don't know about that - ? Playing guitar all day even if you don't get anything done on it is definitely not what I would consider ruining the day. That's a GREAT day!
I feel it's very important, especially when you're in the first few years of learning, that you do hang out with your guitar for extended periods. 4, 6, 8 hours straight - at least occasionally. Bond with the thing. You want to feel natural with it in your hands.
There are days that I do nothing but 'play' my guitar. I may not be actually practicing that whole time. In fact, it's likely I'm not practicing most of that time but the extended time really connects me to music and being a musician. I LOVE to play my guitar. The best players put in extended time.
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu May 13 2014, 07:49 AM
I feel it's very important, especially when you're in the first few years of learning, that you do hang out with your guitar for extended periods. 4, 6, 8 hours straight - at least occasionally. Bond with the thing. You want to feel natural with it in your hands.
There are days that I do nothing but 'play' my guitar. I may not be actually practicing that whole time. In fact, it's likely I'm not practicing most of that time but the extended time really connects me to music and being a musician. I LOVE to play my guitar. The best players put in extended time.
That is very true in your case, because you are a seasoned musician who understands the importance of becoming connected with your instrument. But in the case of someone who is at the beginning of their journey and full of doubts regarding their progress, they wouldn't know what to expect - playing a lot and noticing no progress in any direction can be nasty.
You are right about losing yourself to the instrument and the music
I had such a day a few weeks ago - I took my acoustic in the garden and just let loose. What a joy!
Posted by: klasaine May 13 2014, 08:16 AM
True and I understand about seeing/hearing/realizing ones progress - especially in the beginning.
Record yourself practicing for 20 minutes (or an hour) once a week. Do this for two months. Then listen back after the two months of recording yourself. You WILL hear progress.
As for spending some real time with your instrument ...
Maybe an adult can't do that - for many reasons. Work, family, etc. And probably also the loss of the childlike fascination of losing yourself just making sounds from your instrument.
*But you really young guys and gals here that are still in school or at least the ones not married with children ...
Turn off the friggin' video games and social network crap and spend 4 to 6 hours with your guitar for 3 or 4 days in row. You will not believe the connection you will make with it ... and how much better you will be when you come out of that guitar 'cloister'. Get into the habit of doing that once every few weeks for a couple of years and see where you are. This is how you get real good.
Summer is coming up. Do it! You won't be sorry.
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi May 13 2014, 01:40 PM
Record yourself practicing for 20 minutes (or an hour) once a week. Do this for two months. Then listen back after the two months of recording yourself. You WILL hear progress.
As for spending some real time with your instrument ...
Maybe an adult can't do that - for many reasons. Work, family, etc. And probably also the loss of the childlike fascination of losing yourself just making sounds from your instrument.
*But you really young guys and gals here that are still in school or at least the ones not married with children ...
Turn off the friggin' video games and social network crap and spend 4 to 6 hours with your guitar for 3 or 4 days in row. You will not believe the connection you will make with it ... and how much better you will be when you come out of that guitar 'cloister'. Get into the habit of doing that once every few weeks for a couple of years and see where you are. This is how you get real good.
Summer is coming up. Do it! You won't be sorry.
You made me remember those days when I was back from school and used to dedicate the whole day to just play. I used to work on exercises, but most of the time just playing alone, and along with music, my favorite albums, over radio songs, and what ever it sounded. Even if somebody was watching TV, I used to learn melodies and everything that sounded there by ear.
It's awesome the connection that you get with your instruments thanks to that, I also could train my ear a lot thanks to be al day learning whatever sounded in my home with the guitar.
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu May 14 2014, 08:18 AM
It's awesome the connection that you get with your instruments thanks to that, I also could train my ear a lot thanks to be al day learning whatever sounded in my home with the guitar.
Training you ears was exactly the thing I was thinking about when reading your post, Gabi
I think that this is the best ear training one could get, alongside with consciously imitating various sounds around you! I also had a thing for imitating voices and now I realized how much that has helped my ears
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi May 14 2014, 06:28 PM
I think that this is the best ear training one could get, alongside with consciously imitating various sounds around you! I also had a thing for imitating voices and now I realized how much that has helped my ears yes, this is something very valuable. I used to do it just because I found it fun but it has been a very important training. I wonder if anybody else trained their ears in this way... and if not, what do you use for ear training?
Posted by: SeeJay May 14 2014, 10:06 PM
someone linked this. Im gonna bump it. A lot of good stuff in here.
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu May 15 2014, 08:52 AM
Another thing I did, that helped me a lot, was to dub cartoon voices in a studio for about 2 years
Amazing experience and the fun factor... We used to work 30 minutes and than inevitably laugh for another 30 minutes 
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi May 15 2014, 03:50 PM
Amazing experience and the fun factor... We used to work 30 minutes and than inevitably laugh for another 30 minutes hahaha that's a very cool job! and it's surely a good way to train your ears off course.
This makes me think that there must be some no music related activities that can be helpful for ear training.... dubbing cartoon voices can be one.. do you know any other?
Posted by: SirJamsalot May 15 2014, 09:42 PM
I read the article you linked in yesterday's chat and it had some great insights. I had always subscribed to the learning in short bursts method, but what I had read long ago was 15 minutes, then take a short 2 minute break doing something *completely* different, then resume for another 15 minutes. Resuming is what grilled it into your mind that what you were doing would be revisited, so more likely you will retain it faster. Studies then seemed to show it was more effective.
I wasn't expecting the article to recommend only 3 minutes at a time! I kindof think progress will always be subtle and difficult to ascertain compared to other similar methods, but I don't see why 3 minutes spent on a particular lick would be a bad thing. That's about my attention span anyways, before I go to a different lick.
Great article.
Chris
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu May 16 2014, 07:59 AM
This makes me think that there must be some no music related activities that can be helpful for ear training.... dubbing cartoon voices can be one.. do you know any other?
I always found that associating sounds from all around us with various intervals, really helps us remember them well - for me, the perfect 5th sounds like a trumpet announcing the arrival of a medieval ruler in a castle, for instance. Have you guys thought of such associations?
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi May 16 2014, 09:35 PM
I wasn't expecting the article to recommend only 3 minutes at a time! I kindof think progress will always be subtle and difficult to ascertain compared to other similar methods, but I don't see why 3 minutes spent on a particular lick would be a bad thing. That's about my attention span anyways, before I go to a different lick.
Great article.
Chris
yeah, it's a very good article, and I'm already applying a bit that concept in my Vchat sessions. It really makes sense.
Let's say thanks to Hexabuzz for posting the article here!
yeah! this is the easier way to remember the different intervals. I used to relate the perfect 5th to the beginning of Superman's song.
any other example of this?
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu May 17 2014, 07:55 AM
Let's say thanks to Hexabuzz for posting the article here!
yeah! this is the easier way to remember the different intervals. I used to relate the perfect 5th to the beginning of Superman's song.
any other example of this?
The major 7th
I think about the beginning in a Smashing Pumpkins song, called '1979'Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi May 17 2014, 03:06 PM
I think about the beginning in a Smashing Pumpkins song, called '1979'heheh good one. It's also a good way to remember a semitone.
who uses other sounds to identify intervals?
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu May 18 2014, 10:51 AM
The second/ninth, makes me think about the sea - here's a nice 9th chords based tune that everyone enjoys:
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi May 18 2014, 04:49 PM
I love how ninth chords sound, they sound very opened, that's what I feel when I heard them. I think that if you know how to play a song and how to sing the roots, you can use this to identify intervals.
here we have a perfect 4th:
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu May 19 2014, 10:54 PM
Who can tell the first two intervals in the main theme - 0:27 - 0:28?
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi May 19 2014, 11:06 PM
I could... but I'll give some time to anybody else...
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu May 20 2014, 07:49 AM
Of course, let's not ruin it
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi May 20 2014, 05:30 PM
Come on guys, it's easy!
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu May 21 2014, 07:55 AM
Nobody likes ear training at GMC?
Posted by: Sunny May 21 2014, 08:26 AM
I do, it's fun.
But I've got musical education where we trained this so it's easy for me too. That was ages ago though and I got a bit rusty, but still think I got it right:
It's very interesting to read that you guys also associate melody with intervals, that's exactly what I was doing back then in school and guessing intervals was never easier.
I could recognise easily 2nds and 7ths (and primas/octavas), and I even remember which tunes I had for the rest:
minor 3rd - funeral march
major 3rd - national hymn
pure 4th - oh my darling clementine
pure 5th - 2nd interval in national hymn, and of course trumpets
minor 6th - love story
major 6th - some classical piece, don't remember who/what but still know the tune and can recognise this interval
Curious how musical memory can stay unchanged for decades..
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi May 21 2014, 06:42 PM
But I've got musical education where we trained this so it's easy for me too. That was ages ago though and I got a bit rusty, but still think I got it right:
It's very interesting to read that you guys also associate melody with intervals, that's exactly what I was doing back then in school and guessing intervals was never easier.
I could recognise easily 2nds and 7ths (and primas/octavas), and I even remember which tunes I had for the rest:
minor 3rd - funeral march
major 3rd - national hymn
pure 4th - oh my darling clementine
pure 5th - 2nd interval in national hymn, and of course trumpets
minor 6th - love story
major 6th - some classical piece, don't remember who/what but still know the tune and can recognise this interval
Curious how musical memory can stay unchanged for decades..
That's a great list... are you talking about Sweden Hymn? I think that I've never heard it, do you have a link?
about the answer... let's see if we have any other GMCer that want to answer, if not, Cosmin should end it.
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu May 22 2014, 09:39 AM
Sunny came with an answer already but it's hidden let's see if someone else hits the spot!
Posted by: Sunny May 22 2014, 09:43 AM
Oh, I live in Sweden at the moment, but I was born Croat (at the time Yugoslavia) where I went to school, so it's a yugoslav hymn: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoIBnGGRLMY
If you follow the link you can read its description which gives some background about the composition.
The anthem starts with a major triad and it was played in school on every major event so it was really "burnt" into my memory which was very handy in music school where we had to recognise intervals and triads.
Speaking of hymns, swedish one also starts with major third, what a coincidence.
For pure fifth I remember one more reference which was popular at the time due to a famous movie intro scene in which an ape, to the tune of Strauss's "Also sprach Zarathustra", discovers that (s)he can use a bone as a weapon and throws it triumphantly into the air. There you can also find an octave if you ever need to quickly and accurately pitch it.
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi May 22 2014, 04:53 PM
Nice hymn... but there is something curious... Argentinian Hymn also starts with a Major Third... Is this just a coincidence or most of the national hymns start with a Major 3th???
Around 13 years ago, I had a metal band called Damnation and we recorded a metal version of our Hymn. Check it out:
Are there rock / metal versions of your country's hymn?
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu May 23 2014, 07:14 AM
Very interesting Our national anthem starts with a major 4th:
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