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Adam
post Jun 19 2019, 06:07 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jun 19 2019, 01:32 AM) *
Cool amp!!!! That's the BIG IRON!

Todd

I like Mesa's design but ENGL's are imho better. I've only tried ENGL's Invader and that was a love at first strum. Mesa's Recto, not so much but I wouldn't mind one if I found a nice bargain.

About the reverbs, I think good old spring unit beats the crap of the multifx emulation but high-quality DAWs probably have high-quality reverbs. I hear Mooer or Joyo has a nice counterpart for Boss' RV-6, so that could be worth checking.


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Mertay
post Jun 19 2019, 06:39 PM
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QUOTE (Adam @ Jun 19 2019, 05:07 PM) *
I like Mesa's design but ENGL's are imho better. I've only tried ENGL's Invader and that was a love at first strum. Mesa's Recto, not so much but I wouldn't mind one if I found a nice bargain.

About the reverbs, I think good old spring unit beats the crap of the multifx emulation but high-quality DAWs probably have high-quality reverbs. I hear Mooer or Joyo has a nice counterpart for Boss' RV-6, so that could be worth checking.


With a recto, I like it when the volume is really high as then as if a second amp tone starts to blend in (poweramp tone) but its not so versatile. Mesa Mark V is an amp I could play anytime due to 1-2 of my friends having them but to be honest never really liked them despite the popularity. Cleans are nice but next to a Fender they're a bit sterile, drive probably I'd pick a different cab. than whats regularly inluded, distortion is fuzzy and never tested pedals to see how much I can tame it...simply too much work to set it up biggrin.gif

But the ENGL is really something else, can go super loud but doesn't have to be to get convincing Plexi/silver jubilee tones. Cleans are magical yet can drive as much as Yngwie tones...what shocked me most was the lack of knobs and variety when I first tried it. My second shock was when noticing the headroom, actually struggled a bit cause I am so used to other solutions.

Good reverbs require too much DSP power (probably as much as an amp sim. itself) so its usually the softspot of multi-fx units. Cheap stuff are more delay based, meaning the reflections are very few so sounds thin and works best only if added very little to the tone. I like some Chinese brand solutions, specially drive pedals but for such pedal looking at USA priced probably not going lesser for 100 dolar new is a good lowest but safe limit.


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Adam
post Jun 19 2019, 08:00 PM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Jun 19 2019, 06:39 PM) *
With a recto, I like it when the volume is really high as then as if a second amp tone starts to blend in (poweramp tone) but its not so versatile. Mesa Mark V is an amp I could play anytime due to 1-2 of my friends having them but to be honest never really liked them despite the popularity. Cleans are nice but next to a Fender they're a bit sterile, drive probably I'd pick a different cab. than whats regularly inluded, distortion is fuzzy and never tested pedals to see how much I can tame it...simply too much work to set it up biggrin.gif

But the ENGL is really something else, can go super loud but doesn't have to be to get convincing Plexi/silver jubilee tones. Cleans are magical yet can drive as much as Yngwie tones...what shocked me most was the lack of knobs and variety when I first tried it. My second shock was when noticing the headroom, actually struggled a bit cause I am so used to other solutions.

Good reverbs require too much DSP power (probably as much as an amp sim. itself) so its usually the softspot of multi-fx units. Cheap stuff are more delay based, meaning the reflections are very few so sounds thin and works best only if added very little to the tone. I like some Chinese brand solutions, specially drive pedals but for such pedal looking at USA priced probably not going lesser for 100 dolar new is a good lowest but safe limit.

Personally, I love the "sterileness" of Mesa clean, even more when paired with passive EMGs and vice versa: Fender's, Marshall's or Peavey's clean is too organic for my tastes.

Back to multi-distortion pedals, I did a little research and OD-20, EQ-20 and such are available in great numbers in my country used at quite low price, so correct me if I'm wrong but it must mean there's something wrong with them. It's the same for any piece of rig or other machines. Maybe that's why Boss developed another series hoping to make a better line of multifx that people actually don't re-sell after a month.


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Mertay
post Jun 19 2019, 10:43 PM
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QUOTE (Adam @ Jun 19 2019, 07:00 PM) *
Back to multi-distortion pedals, I did a little research and OD-20, EQ-20 and such are available in great numbers in my country used at quite low price, so correct me if I'm wrong but it must mean there's something wrong with them. It's the same for any piece of rig or other machines. Maybe that's why Boss developed another series hoping to make a better line of multifx that people actually don't re-sell after a month.


Yeah, those stuff needs some amp breakup to sound half-decent. Can be cool as boosts (I really liked some of the OD's in my gt1 I sold a while ago) too but not really for the clean channel, even Helix owners complain on the high-gain pedals. Most are emulations of classic pedals anyway which were designed to work with some amp breakup going on.

I'd also assume if used with a processor or a digital amp they would suck. Even with the Katana my experience is digital drive solutions really shows itself. So I think thats why Boss's 200 series will be hybrid designed, using some analog stages to get a better tone (like strymon did).

I can recommend the Boss DA2 though, works great with fender-ish tones on the clean channel. Not super highgain but not low either, they're discontinued so could be found for a decent price on the used market.


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Todd Simpson
post Jun 20 2019, 07:10 AM
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Took my ampero in to my local guitar shop (turned off cab sim) hooked up to an old yamaha power amp to a mesa cab with one of my high gain patches. Sounded amazing. Tried the mesa Mark V. Sounded mean, but not as articulated. Notes kept getting lost in the gain, even when it wasn't that high. Then tried my clean patch on the ampero based on a roughly on a fender twin nofx, same power amp, sounded full. Tried the Mesa and could not get it to sound warm at all. As if the clean was an after thought on the mesa. Sounded like the drive channel with the drive turned off. I didn't bring the 11 rack as it's just to big to carry around. The Ampero is great for bringing to stores and testing gear with just because it's so darn small. I'm using my own patches of course so I know how they should sound. So If I put a guitar in to it, and it sounds a bit crap, pretty sure that's not the guitar for me. I've put strats, ibbys, LTD, Bc Rich, etc through it at home and they all sound nice. So if I plug in a guitar and it's awful. I know not to get it. I"m using a small 5 watt head on a 4x12 mostly and sometimes a 300 watt rocktron rack amp. Basic randal 4x12. It gives a decent baseline for comparison. But tone is very individual, some folks love sterile tones some love organic.
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Mertay
post Jun 20 2019, 01:51 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jun 20 2019, 06:10 AM) *
Took my ampero in to my local guitar shop (turned off cab sim) hooked up to an old yamaha power amp to a mesa cab with one of my high gain patches. Sounded amazing. Tried the mesa Mark V. Sounded mean, but not as articulated. Notes kept getting lost in the gain, even when it wasn't that high. Then tried my clean patch on the ampero based on a roughly on a fender twin nofx, same power amp, sounded full. Tried the Mesa and could not get it to sound warm at all. As if the clean was an after thought on the mesa. Sounded like the drive channel with the drive turned off. I didn't bring the 11 rack as it's just to big to carry around. The Ampero is great for bringing to stores and testing gear with just because it's so darn small. I'm using my own patches of course so I know how they should sound. So If I put a guitar in to it, and it sounds a bit crap, pretty sure that's not the guitar for me. I've put strats, ibbys, LTD, Bc Rich, etc through it at home and they all sound nice. So if I plug in a guitar and it's awful. I know not to get it. I"m using a small 5 watt head on a 4x12 mostly and sometimes a 300 watt rocktron rack amp. Basic randal 4x12. It gives a decent baseline for comparison. But tone is very individual, some folks love sterile tones some love organic.


Though more obvious with plug-ins, poweramp sim. are getting better and better on digital. Considering the coloration of the Yamaha poweramp, this (in theory with Hotone, was possible with boss gt-1) can be achieved by increasing the (software) amps output but decreasing the output of the processor (post amp digitally or by processor main output).

I did recordings to try this out with the gt-1, differences weren't subtle. But driving the poweramp doesn't always sound better with high-gain tones as it can muddy-up the tone too so testing by recording will be a huge advantage.



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Mertay
post Jun 22 2019, 08:41 AM
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Todd Simpson
post Jun 22 2019, 07:01 PM
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I hope these show up in guitar center. I'd love to try them. I'd get a strymon as ken said if I wanted to buy a pedal, just not in the market. Still I end up wiith pedals all the time even though I don't need them smile.gif
Recently bought two guitars, gus g, and mocking bird, lasted about 2 weeks then back on the block. Was fun to try them though smile.gif Made the gabe collab vid with the gus..
QUOTE (Mertay @ Jun 22 2019, 03:41 AM) *
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Mertay
post Jun 23 2019, 11:30 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jun 22 2019, 06:01 PM) *
I hope these show up in guitar center. I'd love to try them. I'd get a strymon as ken said if I wanted to buy a pedal, just not in the market.


Which delay pedal would you choose for your shred style specific? If I didn't have processor delay option, this would be a very hard choice.

Boss terra turned out to be a very unexpected preference for me; Its dual delay (super important if no reverb prefered, Vai style sound), wide stereo, tails fill the background nicely, easy to find used...that modulation effect doesn't trigger with shred type distortion, which is a big plus for me biggrin.gif

There are few delays I really like but cause of the dual thing I like, things can get really expensive with imagination biggrin.gif


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Adam
post Jun 25 2019, 12:44 PM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Jun 23 2019, 11:30 AM) *
Which delay pedal would you choose for your shred style specific? If I didn't have processor delay option, this would be a very hard choice.

Boss terra turned out to be a very unexpected preference for me; Its dual delay (super important if no reverb prefered, Vai style sound), wide stereo, tails fill the background nicely, easy to find used...that modulation effect doesn't trigger with shred type distortion, which is a big plus for me biggrin.gif

There are few delays I really like but cause of the dual thing I like, things can get really expensive with imagination biggrin.gif

I'm happy with my DD-7. It covers a whole lotta ground with its options which makes it really versatile but I use one setting since the purchase. It's my god-tier delay and it's as digital as the modelling units, so it's probably on par Kempers, racks etc. At the end of the day, there's a limit to customization and no price tag will ever get around it, so just go for one you like and enjoy it smile.gif


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Mertay
post Jun 25 2019, 02:06 PM
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QUOTE (Adam @ Jun 25 2019, 11:44 AM) *
I'm happy with my DD-7. It covers a whole lotta ground with its options which makes it really versatile but I use one setting since the purchase. It's my god-tier delay and it's as digital as the modelling units, so it's probably on par Kempers, racks etc. At the end of the day, there's a limit to customization and no price tag will ever get around it, so just go for one you like and enjoy it smile.gif


Remember cause of parallel routing pedals of then sound better (as in clarity) even than the most expensive processors.


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Mertay
post Jul 24 2019, 10:24 PM
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Todd Simpson
post Jul 27 2019, 08:31 PM
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For me, as long as I can get two delays in sequence I"m happy smile.gif The first one is always set to 80ms. with no feedback. It gives a "room tone" vibe like early Megadeth which always puts a smile on my face. The second one is set to 350ms with some feedback which helps squeals resonate like crazy. It's why my pinch squeals break through a mix. I don't use any crazy delay settings, so my needs are pretty basic. Some folks who do shoegaze stuff like to hit one chord and let the delay do the work, or play like EDGE from U2 and let the delay do half the work instead of picking each note. I'm not that guy. I pick a LOT so too much delay can be a bad thing for me.
My one complaint about the old 11 rack is one delay only. So I have to use a reverb for room tone.

What I love about OVERLOUD is I can add two or more delays and two or more reverbs if I want a really fx heavy tone.

If I had to use pedals, I'd just need two basic delays that I could set just like I set them in my plugin. If one delay had two sets of time/feedback/level controls that would do the trick smile.gif



Todd
QUOTE (Mertay @ Jun 23 2019, 06:30 AM) *
Which delay pedal would you choose for your shred style specific? If I didn't have processor delay option, this would be a very hard choice.

Boss terra turned out to be a very unexpected preference for me; Its dual delay (super important if no reverb prefered, Vai style sound), wide stereo, tails fill the background nicely, easy to find used...that modulation effect doesn't trigger with shred type distortion, which is a big plus for me biggrin.gif

There are few delays I really like but cause of the dual thing I like, things can get really expensive with imagination biggrin.gif


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Jul 27 2019, 08:33 PM
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Adam
post Jul 29 2019, 03:51 PM
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It sure looks like it can pack a punch in the mix. Seems like a solid unit for everyone who likes to play around with presets smile.gif

I didn't want to start another topic, since it's related to Boss pedals as well. I just rashly bought Boss OD-3 I was trying to get off auctions and compared to the usual prices, mine was a steal. The problem is, it cost all the remaining money I had on bank account (besides savings). Literally, all of them. That was a sign from the above because any extra penny and it would be out of the question. I stocked up on drinking water and some food and refueled my car, so now I'll just have to survive 2.5 weeks with it. Now I know what it feels like to be a guitar head. I just hope OD-3 really is worth all this wink.gif


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Mertay
post Jul 29 2019, 04:59 PM
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biggrin.gif


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Adam
post Aug 14 2019, 09:55 PM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Jul 29 2019, 03:59 PM) *
biggrin.gif

I managed to get just enough space to play guitar and I tried plugging OD-3 into hybrid amp. It behaves COMPLETELY differently than when plugged into a solid state and I mean it in a better way. Definitely a keeper! biggrin.gif


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Mertay
post Aug 15 2019, 01:33 AM
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QUOTE (Adam @ Aug 14 2019, 08:55 PM) *
I managed to get just enough space to play guitar and I tried plugging OD-3 into hybrid amp. It behaves COMPLETELY differently than when plugged into a solid state and I mean it in a better way. Definitely a keeper! biggrin.gif


Glad you liked it, I often read rave reviews of it but never really tried at home. At store I felt it has a bit of a tubescreamer thing going on where until you plug-in to the amp you can't be sure what to expect, seems I was right based on your experience.


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Todd Simpson
post Aug 15 2019, 03:49 AM
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The OD3 is a classic pedal imho smile.gif It always seemed to have more of a deep punch to it than tube screamer type pedals. It didn't seem to cut the lows out of the signal like tube screamer type pedals do. This isn't good or bad by itself, just different. Tube screamer type pedals are often used as a "high pass filter" to let the "high frequencies pass through" and trim off some of the bass so that the tone can stay "tight" and not get boomy when using a high gain amp in real life or in simulation. The OD3 doesn't cut the lows like that so for low/mid gain sounds it carries a LOT more beef/oomph! Glad you like it smile.gif

QUOTE (Adam @ Aug 14 2019, 04:55 PM) *
I managed to get just enough space to play guitar and I tried plugging OD-3 into hybrid amp. It behaves COMPLETELY differently than when plugged into a solid state and I mean it in a better way. Definitely a keeper! biggrin.gif
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klasaine
post Aug 15 2019, 04:56 PM
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As Todd alludes to the OD3 has a flatter EQ contour. Mids and bass stay pretty much the same. Some will say there's too much bass. That all depends on your amp. *The original TS (Maxon/Ibanez) pedals were tuned towards Fender amps of the time (late 70s, early 80s) which have lower mids by design. It's one of the elements that give them a great clean and 'sparkly' tone. The TS pushed the mids for better cut through on a lead.
The OD3 has less overall drive than the DS1 and SD1 and more than a BD2. Because of it's flatter EQ it works really good as a clean boost.
It, like so many Boss and Ibanez pedals, makes a great 'mod' platform.
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Adam
post Aug 17 2019, 01:20 AM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Aug 15 2019, 12:33 AM) *
Glad you liked it, I often read rave reviews of it but never really tried at home. At store I felt it has a bit of a tubescreamer thing going on where until you plug-in to the amp you can't be sure what to expect, seems I was right based on your experience.

I can second each one of these hyper-positive reviews! I have a tubescreamer and to be honest I hate it but OD3 seems a more refined pedal, at least for me!

QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Aug 15 2019, 02:49 AM) *
The OD3 is a classic pedal imho smile.gif It always seemed to have more of a deep punch to it than tube screamer type pedals. It didn't seem to cut the lows out of the signal like tube screamer type pedals do. This isn't good or bad by itself, just different. Tube screamer type pedals are often used as a "high pass filter" to let the "high frequencies pass through" and trim off some of the bass so that the tone can stay "tight" and not get boomy when using a high gain amp in real life or in simulation. The OD3 doesn't cut the lows like that so for low/mid gain sounds it carries a LOT more beef/oomph! Glad you like it smile.gif

I like it much more than my TS808! I mean, I wouldn't even put them on a similar tier. The way you put it may be the reason. I like to keep the bass and it's LOUD. Only DS-1 Keeley modded of all my pedals has a similar volume range, others are very quiet in comparison. And it's quiet too, no need for a noise gate at all! You'll hear it a lot in my future videos.

QUOTE (klasaine @ Aug 15 2019, 03:56 PM) *
As Todd alludes to the OD3 has a flatter EQ contour. Mids and bass stay pretty much the same. Some will say there's too much bass. That all depends on your amp. *The original TS (Maxon/Ibanez) pedals were tuned towards Fender amps of the time (late 70s, early 80s) which have lower mids by design. It's one of the elements that give them a great clean and 'sparkly' tone. The TS pushed the mids for better cut through on a lead.
The OD3 has less overall drive than the DS1 and SD1 and more than a BD2. Because of it's flatter EQ it works really good as a clean boost.
It, like so many Boss and Ibanez pedals, makes a great 'mod' platform.

This makes a lot of sense. It also makes sense why I dislike tubescreamers so much, I don't use Fender amps or strats which would probably benefit from it. I like OD3's transparency a lot. It's really nice as a clean boost but it also sounds great as an Overdrive unit. To me, it's perfect as it is and I don't see any need to modding this one smile.gif


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