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GMC Forum _ PRACTICE ROOM _ Gmc Songwriting Collaboration (!)
Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Oct 12 2014, 08:27 PM
We have done many cool lead guitar collabs - and I thought now would be a good time to try something different.
My idea is for us to write a song together!
Do you have any ideas? Maybe you have written a cool riff / chord progression, or maybe some lyrics? Maybe you have come up with a melody but don’t really know what to do with it? Maybe you have programmed a beat/drum track of some kind? Maybe you have got some flute chops ( 
)
As you can probably tell this is just blank sheet right now, so any idea you have got - throw 'em in! They don't have to fit a specific genre, tempo or key. Let’s just gather ideas first and see where it takes us.
Btw there will most likely be opportunities for those of you who would just like to record some lead guitar as well, but we obviously need a backing track and song structure set first!
Posted by: Quantum Oct 12 2014, 09:32 PM
Hi there! 
My suggestion is to build the base on a similar chord progression:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tr4eBkibHY8
Then we could play something really melodic. And transition to a different one later.
Greetings,
Dian
Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Oct 12 2014, 09:53 PM
Hey Dian, that could be a cool approach. Do you have any favorite chord progression?
Posted by: Monica Gheorghevici Oct 13 2014, 01:38 PM
Very cool initiative. Sounds interesting
I will say my thought about the song. I'm not say already I'm in but I will decide myself soon ( I have too many things to do in the same time) 
I guess there are many possibilities for song. First of all I will start with a question. We want to make a backing with a structure for a song or we want a backing as for a jamming? Because this will make the difference at the final result. I hope you understand what I want to mean I have too many ideas so I will try to explain:
1. We can make a song with a simple chord progression to be easy for all of us to play over it and add a modulation part to make the song much juicy.
2. We can make a song with parts from different styles influence, break of rhythms but suitable for any levels of playing.
When I say different styles influences I have in mind your new tune Kris (that you played at Vchat) You have some neoclassical parts with some blues-jazzy parts. Of course we can make any combination of styles we want.
3. We can think to make a base which has a similar structure with a backing for collabs. This option I guess will have a jamming feel.
The second question of mine is: If I choose to play something for backing track no matter at what kind of instrument I choose to play, it can be possible also to record some lead guitar part?
These has been my first thoughts and questions about song One more thing, my suggestion after we will decide the style, tempo, structure, sounds, particular instruments, I think it would be good to talk about guitar tone (a very important part for a good result). From my point of view guitar tone can make the song to sound as a crap or not and I guess we want this song to be: "From zero to hero"
Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Oct 13 2014, 02:26 PM
My idea for this collab is to try and create something which we would actually want to listen to on our ipods (or whatever device we carry). The normal collabs we do are a lot of fun, but they don't teach you guys how to write a meaningful song (rather they teach how to write a meaningful, but stand-alone, guitar part).
So I would like to write something which sounds like a real song, but still contains as much influences as possible from the community.
* Rhythm guitar sound: In order to get a coherent sound I will either re-record whatever guitar parts we decide upon, or I will re-amp your audio
* For leads I can either do re-amp, maybe EQ matching - or even re-record the takes myself if needed.
* we can (and should!) also use software instruments (drums, pianos, synths etc) and in this case sound is usually not a problem, as we can bounce midi files back and forth but still use the same sound engine in my audio project.
In order to squeeze in as many people as possible, I would want to structure the song with some kind of question and answer thing (listen to the verses of my song "http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/love-me-lesson/" for example):
By having guitar leads answering a main melody we can get away with a lots of cool licks without getting a messy song structure.
Of course everyone will not get a long solo, but I believe that teaching you how to play three perfect notes is what you currently need most. If you learn that, just imagine how cool it will be when you can play 20 perfect notes in a row?! Besides, if you want to do studio work, no one usually wants to hear long guitar solos - they will want to hear guitar parts that enhance and complement the music.
Even if a take of yours does not survive until the final version, just being involved in this collab will be very stimulating, since we will discuss and make informed decisions about where we take the song. And that analysis is the main goal of this collab.
--
So if you guys want to send me your ideas you can either do it here, or send me a private message. Remember there are no good or bad starting points for a song, songwriting is just an equation:
component A + component B + component C = cool song
Component A can pretty much be whatever you want, but it will have a heavy influence on the choice component B and C in order to get a cool song. (well at least what I perceive as a cool song..! 
)
With this cryptic talk I am trying to say that the easy part is now, because you can throw on anything you want at this stage!
Posted by: SirJamsalot Oct 13 2014, 06:24 PM
This sounds like a lot of fun. If we're going for an EP sound, there's room for 3 or 4 guitars in the rhythm secion alone It would be cool to take a Porcupine Tree approach - slow to epic back to slow again, where there's room for accoustic/easy playing into hair-raising full blown in your face metal riffage.
As for organizing such a project - songs typically progress from an initial idea that gets thrown out there as a scratch track / concept. If adopted, then the folk responsible for that scratch can begin refining it while the next set of people work on the transition to the next song concept. It would be challenging, but fun I think to try to tie the second concept back int the first concept to close out the song.
I think a guitar opening for 2 bars, then drums and bass coming in to support that idea for the next 16 or so bars (perhaps vocals coming in after the 4th / 8th bar to help carry the initial idea for some time. So we'd need a guitar opener idea to build on, then someone to brave out a drum track and bass (*cough - Bogdan ** cough cough ** bogdan) to support that. Then someone else can come up with a concept to tie in to the first idea and take it full metal or full rock . Rinse and repeat. And I'd like to hear your dreamy voice again, Kris
Just blathering how I would approach it
Would this include video as well? I can supply some bunny rabbit footage
Posted by: Amir Razmara Oct 13 2014, 08:21 PM
How exciting !!! This is great.. I will keep a close eye on this thread to see how things develop :-)))
Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Oct 13 2014, 08:31 PM
It would be cool to take a Porcupine Tree approach - slow to epic back to slow again, where there's room for accoustic/easy playing into hair-raising full blown in your face metal riffage. I think a guitar opening for 2 bars, then drums and bass coming in to support that idea for the next 16 or so bars (perhaps vocals coming in after the 4th / 8th bar to help carry the initial idea for some time. So we'd need a guitar opener idea to build on, then someone to brave out a drum track and bass (*cough - Bogdan ** cough cough ** bogdan) to support that. Then someone else can come up with a concept to tie in to the first idea and take it full metal or full rock
. Rinse and repeat. And I'd like to hear your dreamy voice again, Kris Perfect - that's an excellent suggestion and goes very well in had in mind. We have to go for something that's at a manageable tempo for most people but still sounds cool (and layering will certainly help here), and which allows for several different sections (we'll be able to squeeze in more styles=more people).
Btw what do you mean with EP sound?
Of course, we couldn't do without your cute little rabbit =) No seriously if we end up with a cool song, I can't see how we wouldn't do a video as well.
You're most welcome to just hang around Amir!
Posted by: SirJamsalot Oct 13 2014, 08:35 PM
I just meant something that ties off, as opposed to random noodling throught - organized with a knowable progression. EP was the wrong word - a red herring to make me sound smart
Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Oct 13 2014, 08:38 PM
Ok I see. It worked! You seem very smart! Btw what's a red herring? (I think we're caught in a never ending loop!
)Right now I am itching to get started, but I will hold myself so other people get a chance to lay the foundation for this one. I will probably be all over it anyway when we're done.
Posted by: SirJamsalot Oct 13 2014, 08:44 PM
)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring
Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Oct 13 2014, 08:46 PM
What's the wikipedia? I told you this would never end!
...sorry couldn't resist
Posted by: SirJamsalot Oct 13 2014, 08:52 PM
me either
Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Oct 13 2014, 09:03 PM
me either
You're not that nervous about this, are you?
Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Oct 14 2014, 10:40 AM
Ok I couldn't stop myself 
so here is a first idea for an intro.
It's in G major / 70 bpm and will easily translate to a slow and heavy riff in E minor - re-using the same melody as this clean part but with heavy chugging in between the melody notes. It could kick in with lots of explosions and dynamics after the clean intro (love that kind of stuff )
intro_idea1.mp3 ( 478.7K )
: 168
Quick 'n dirty tab ( I play this using fingerpicking, middle single coil of my strat, AC30 type amp with compression and tremolo effect):
---2/3----2/3
--5------5---
-4------4----
5------5-----
-------------
-------------
---2/3\2p0------
--5--------3-5-5
-4---------4-4-4
5----------5-5-5
----------------
----------------
---2/3----2/3
--5------5---
-4------4----
5------5-----
-------------
-------------
---2/3\2p0-5-7-7
--5--------5-7-7
-4---------4-5-5
5----------5-7-7
----------------
----------------
Here is a quick n dirty looped version in case you guys think we should work on a longer intro. (possibilities are endless, we could add more electric/acoustic guitars, volume swells, backgrounds strings, pads etc etc)
intro_idea1_looped.mp3 ( 2.78MB )
: 124Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Oct 14 2014, 01:21 PM
Hi everybody! This collaboration idea sounds great!! I'm sure that we will be creating an amazing track together! I just listened to Kris initial idea and a powerful riff came to mind. I'm not sure if this one is usable and where, but as it came to my mind I decided to record it.
Check it out!
Gab_idea_1_with_drums.mp3 ( 804.41K )
: 178
Gab_idea_1_only_guitars.mp3 ( 804.41K )
: 126
Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Oct 14 2014, 02:12 PM
Excellent Gab, and that's a brutal sound you have got!
This one is in my project now - I can picture it as bridge riff or when we need tension (for example at the end of a main riff).
We could go for a main riff with lots of tension as well - but I'd prefer something more harmonic as I believe that's where the strongest melodies will come form.
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Oct 14 2014, 05:53 PM
This one is in my project now - I can picture it as bridge riff or when we need tension (for example at the end of a main riff).
We could go for a main riff with lots of tension as well - but I'd prefer something more harmonic as I believe that's where the strongest melodies will come form.
That sounds great! Looking forward new parts for this promising song!
I think that everybody should give a try to this one! Don't worry if you think that your idea is not "THE" big idea. The more stuff we provide for this one, the more we have to choose and in the end, the cooler the final song will be!
Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Oct 14 2014, 07:55 PM
+1 Couldn't have said it better. Also you run a risk of me finishing the song without you - because I got a good feeling about this one!
Posted by: bleez Oct 14 2014, 08:11 PM
Just listening to Gabs idea gave me an idea which might work straight after Gabs riff or maybe with Gabs riff either side of it -
[attachment=39299:riff.mp3]
or not it sounded kinda cool in my head!
Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Oct 14 2014, 08:15 PM
[attachment=39299:riff.mp3]
or not
it sounded kinda cool in my head!YEAH!!!!! That's a keeper, amazing!! It has Sabbath all over it, and I love it. Give me some time and I will figure out how to best make use of it.
Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Oct 14 2014, 09:11 PM
Bleez can you send me just the guitar audio file(s) so I can start experimenting?
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Oct 14 2014, 09:34 PM
[attachment=39299:riff.mp3]
or not
it sounded kinda cool in my head!Wou!! I love it Bleez! This song is turning really heavy.
Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Oct 15 2014, 04:49 PM
Just a quick mix update - I have added a riff of my own as well Bleez' idea, plus some FX to the intro guitar.
intro_krisriff_bleezriff.mp3 ( 1.75MB )
: 158
It's all very drafty and I have just added the riffs one after the other to get a feel for how they sound. The idea is to digest this and think of how we can structure these parts for maximum impact (with vocals). Also, I have a possible chorus section in my head - so I guess what we have currently could be seen as intro-verse-bridge, however this needs to be digested as well!
Some other things on my to do list:
* start working on orchestration for Bleez' riff (00:44), the current arrangement does not do it justice at all
* re-write the clean intro guitar so that it has a more interesting bass line and play it better. Then add some orchestration (and possibly prolongue the intro, especially if you guys give me idea suggestions)
* start programming drums (haven't touched it so far, only went for templates)
* possibly try the mix with some bass guitar
However my main task is to try and visualise some vocals as those will have a heavy impact on the structure of the song.
Any feedback / input is welcome!
Posted by: bleez Oct 15 2014, 06:04 PM
okay.... so Im grinning like a Cheshire cat after hearing my riff in there!! Hey Kris, great call changing the single notes I played into the chords.... sounds fantastic
Im so looking forward to this developing
Posted by: Amir Razmara Oct 15 2014, 06:11 PM
Hi Guys
I Have added a tiny part to the the intro. I have to communicate my Ideas via Guitar pro since I don't have the tools to record at the moment. I'm sure you guys can add my part if you like it. Beez/gab Sorry I didn't have time to tab your part but you can add it if you like.
Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Oct 15 2014, 07:42 PM
I Have added a tiny part to the the intro. I have to communicate my Ideas via Guitar pro since I don't have the tools to record at the moment. I'm sure you guys can add my part if you like it. Beez/gab Sorry I didn't have time to tab your part but you can add it if you like.
I can't open this one from where I am now, could you try exporting as GP5? ( I only have access to tuxguitar software)
Posted by: Amir Razmara Oct 15 2014, 08:04 PM
Alright no problem
Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Oct 15 2014, 09:06 PM
Excellent Amir! This could make up for an epic intro - and it would be something new for me so I am definitely going to try it. I can hear timpanis and orchestras and whatnot in my head - this is very exciting!
Also thanks a million for transcribing - this should make it much easier for others who want to share their ideas via guitar pro. (hint hint hint)
hehe! I will experiment a little more with that part, I also tried the same kind of palm mute rhythm as in my riff. When introducing new elements its usually good to stick to a theme if there is one.
Posted by: SirJamsalot Oct 16 2014, 08:22 AM
I came up with and recorded a *really* un-practiced intro idea - starts in Dminor and transitions to Eminor
Let me know what you think good or bad. the low string is slightly out of tune :/
https://soundcloud.com/sirjamsalot/gmc-song-collaboration-10-14-2014-intro-idea
Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Oct 16 2014, 05:18 PM
I tried to follow Amir’s idea, and I think I ended up with a song-in-a-song?! It’s definitely not Amirs fault though, and perhaps the chords in this intro could even be used to build a chorus. I am not really sure what to make of this though, so please let me know your thoughts:
amirintro_kriff_briff.mp3 ( 2.67MB )
: 131
I am a fan of very short intros that don’t really have any value except for making a strong contrast to the opening riff. So that might have been why I instinctively started to build a song when elaborating on the intro..and we got a song-in-a-song =)
Other than this I have added an octave harmony on Bleez’ riff with my strat, and it seemed to give a nice and bright addition to my LTD/JB guitar which I used for the riffing.
Let me know what you think good or bad. the low string is slightly out of tune :/
https://soundcloud.com/sirjamsalot/gmc-song-collaboration-10-14-2014-intro-idea
Well this idea could definitely be used to build a cool intro/song. I am not sure it fits this songs' intro though - since the rhythm of my clean intro matches the first distorted riff. You should have posted this idea couple of days earlier!
Posted by: Caelumamittendum Oct 16 2014, 05:38 PM
This is an old idea of mine. Don't know if it can be used anywhere, but thought I'd share it anyway:
https://soundcloud.com/benjamin-storm-linnebjerg/tapedeck-2-oct-15-22-51-58
It switches constantly between 6/8 and 7/8. That's one way to count it anyway.
Posted by: Amir Razmara Oct 16 2014, 06:20 PM
[quote name='Kristofer Dahl' date='Oct 16 2014, 04:18 PM' post='698621']
I tried to follow Amir’s idea, and I think I ended up with a song-in-a-song?! It’s definitely not Amirs fault though, and perhaps the chords in this intro could even be used to build a chorus. I am not really sure what to make of this though, so please let me know your thoughts:
Wow... I like this a lot you have given it the right touch with the cool arrangement/layers....the intro is climactic and builds nicely to your riff. I think more can be done right after your riff...I don't know what exactly I'd have to live with this for a few hours great job Kris
Posted by: SirJamsalot Oct 16 2014, 06:47 PM
I'll use it then! Yah, late to the party means I'm stuck with the crumbs at the bottom of the chip bowl =
Cheers!
Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Oct 16 2014, 08:55 PM
https://soundcloud.com/benjamin-storm-linnebjerg/tapedeck-2-oct-15-22-51-58
It switches constantly between 6/8 and 7/8. That's one way to count it anyway.
Absolutely beautiful!
Considering the current phase, we don't really need more material - instead what we have got so far needs to be structured. Right now it's just a mess of ideas and we haven't even reached the point where a section repeats. So I don't think we should add more right now. However depending on how progressive we want to get, we could throw in more sections later in the song.
Btw if anybody has structural suggestions they are more than welcome! I need to digest what we have got so far and start thinking about what kind of vocals we want to hear over this (suggestions welcome here as well!)
Cheers!
Yes, but there is still lots of Pepsi in the fridge
Posted by: Amir Razmara Oct 17 2014, 08:56 AM
Hi Kris. Here is an update from me. There is nothing new here just a repeated section harmonized in 3rds. and a tempo change suggestion, but at the moment I don't know what kind of vibe you are going for. You may want to keep the original tempo.
Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Oct 17 2014, 10:58 AM
hehe I like your thinking, doubling/increasing the tempo is a neat trick to do with slow metal tunes. And actually I had something like that in mind for the chorus (which I haven't yet written). However right now I am bit confused on what will actually be the chorus, since the intro could work as one as well (with some modifications).
The vibe is not really set in stone - so please feel free to keep suggesting stuff. However I am thinking it would be wise to keep the slower tempo as this will probably make it easier for more people to contribute with lead lines etc (+ I love slow and heavy stuff).
Thanks a lot for the updated tab btw!
Right now I am trying to think of how to elaborate the first distorted riff into something that can support vocals well (in this case it will probably be a matter of simplifying the riff - or turn into a more standardised chord progression). Feel free to suggest.
To get more of a pro sound going on I will obviously need to practice and re-record the guitars and add bass but before we do that I want to make sure we're happy with the song so far.
Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Oct 17 2014, 03:39 PM
Ok I haven't added anything, but I have restructured the verse and tried writing some lyrics (nothing recorded though). I can't really sing now because I have a sore throat but I have tried talk/whispering over the track and I think it will work well with vocals.
My plan is to have lyrics follow the riff pretty much, so hopefully you can somewhat understand how I intend to phrase them. I am testing a more casual type of lyrics but I intend to do my usual low barking + high screams, maybe with some System of a down elements.
amirintro_kriff_briff_V2.mp3 ( 2.62MB )
: 157
Suggestions / variations / additions are welcome! And please let me know anything sticks out as (terribly) bad English:
00:50
Just today, I heard you say
Be my man and make love to me
00:57
But the problem is this, it wasn't to me!
(But) to an old and long time friend of ours
01:04
What do you do, and what do you say
When your life is 'bout to sway away?
01:11
[possibly a short guitar lead before Bleez' riff]
01:18
Unfaithful lies [long, high screams/singing]
01:21
Jeopardise
01:25
Minimize
01:28
A trust that's built for years and years
01:31
So I say, go your way
And don't you come back here no more!
01:38
If it wasn't for me, yeah you wouldn't be free
And you've sunk too low to disagree
---
Also does anybody have ideas for the chorus section starting at 01:44? Riffs are welcome!
Posted by: Amir Razmara Oct 17 2014, 06:23 PM
Making good progress so far I agree about the slower tempo..I think the fast tempo would undermined the meaning of the lyrics...I got too excited there thinking we were off to the races and had to shred and tear it apart , But I love slow and heavy stuff as well and am really stoked to be involved in this project
Posted by: Amir Razmara Oct 18 2014, 04:51 PM
Here is an up date. I have added a measure before bleez's part and a scratch riff for the chorus and some variations for the riff at the end.
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Oct 18 2014, 06:15 PM
Wou! I'm amazed of how great this one is evolving! The last sample is sounding killer!! It has a very interesting and heavy vibe but at the same time it has a very unique style. Keep the great ideas coming guys and girls!
Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Oct 18 2014, 09:29 PM
I really liked the break before Bleez' riff, and actually I am really excited about testing something like that without any drums. Watch this space! And you are so right in thinking we need some kind of transition there.
The chorus riff sounds cool, but I am not sure it's a the kind of chorus riff I'd like to hear. The reason being that I like to hear strong chordal movements (don't get me wrong - it can definitely be a single note riff - but I still want to hear some kind of classic chord changes in there). I think this is a necessity to get a strong vocal chorus melody going (well at least if I am to try and write/sing vocals - I am sure people like Chris Cornell don't have these kinds of limitations...)
Btw I want to say it's really great to get your contributions. Not only are we creating a really cool song together - but we also have the exact discussions I was hoping for!
If you want to give it another shot you are more than welcome! Or maybe your chorus idea just needs some drums to shine? You never know. Or perhaps you should get back to your idea of doubling the tempo, maybe that is combination with some strong chord movements will create a bombastic chorus recipe for this tune?
Posted by: Amir Razmara Oct 18 2014, 11:18 PM
I will try...I'll stretch my head to see what may be more fitting for the chorus. Do you have any suggestion regarding the key for the chorus?
Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Oct 19 2014, 11:21 AM
Some brainstorming:
* Maybe the 'Enter Sandman' trick is worth testing, ie going up to F#. However since Bleez' riff feels like Gm to me, I am not sure F# will be as effective. But its definitely worth testing.
* Another option is to stick to Em for the chorus as well, I find that its fully possible to get a powerful chorus without changing key (also it can be cool to save that modulation for the end of the song)
* I had an idea of maybe trying G major key (which is the parallel major key to E minor) - that would also give us a chance to turn the theme of the song into something positive (perhaps how one can move on after experiencing hard times, or something like that).
I have some spare time now and will do some experimenting as well.
Posted by: bingefeller Oct 19 2014, 11:38 AM
Sounds great already! I love when the distorted riffs kick in.
Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Oct 19 2014, 12:54 PM
Awesome to hear you like the current direction, and yes that old trick of distortion kicking in after a clean section is somehow timeless. It always gives you that 'kick in chest' feeling.
Posted by: Amir Razmara Oct 19 2014, 05:28 PM
Hi Kris
I thought perhaps the first verse should be extended...it felt like it was too early to go to bleez's so I inserted a bridge riff that leads to an extended verse...you may need more lyrics if like this idea...it's just a suggestion as we are brainstorming right now, I also added some optional clean guitar at the end encase there is need for more...as for the chorus I'm still not sure about the right idea.
Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Oct 20 2014, 03:24 PM
Thanks Amir - I like the new bridge riff. It's fun to play as well.
I am a little stuck right now. If only we can find a chorus section which excels what we have so far - then we should en up with something really cool.
Here are the options I see:
1 Come up with a completely new chorus section. I have tested some different stuff - but whatever I come up with it just sounds like we're adding too many sections. At this point in the song I feel something must repeat - unless we want to go into some experimental progressive genre.
2 Use Bleez' riff as chorus. It is a cool riff and this could work, however ideally we would keep it where it is now and come up with a cool chorus (more is more!?)
3 Completely skip Bleez' riff and come up with a new chorus section. This is probably the easiest option - if we remove Bleez' riff we can get away with introducing a new element/section. However I like Bleez' riff and if we can keep it and come up with a strong chorus - I think the solution will be cool with a lot of character.
4 Keep the sections we have so far (http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=39355), and use a variation of the intro idea as chorus, this is what I am experimenting with now. The listener is already familiar with the intro - so if we can make it more rhythmic and bombastic with some cool harmonies we should be home.
I hope that made sense.
Posted by: bleez Oct 20 2014, 08:00 PM
a couple of ideas......
if it repeated what we have after the intro twice, you could add on a chordy tail part to the end as a possible chorus?
[attachment=39433:riff1.mp3]
or maybe put that chordy part before my riff came in the second time
[attachment=39434:riff2.mp3]
*try to imagine it played less sloppy
Posted by: Amir Razmara Oct 20 2014, 08:04 PM
I am a little stuck right now. If only we can find a chorus section which excels what we have so far - then we should en up with something really cool.
Here are the options I see:
1 Come up with a completely new chorus section. I have tested some different stuff - but whatever I come up with it just sounds like we're adding too many sections. At this point in the song I feel something must repeat - unless we want to go into some experimental progressive genre.
2 Use Bleez' riff as chorus. It is a cool riff and this could work, however ideally we would keep it where it is now and come up with a cool chorus (more is more!?)
3 Completely skip Bleez' riff and come up with a new chorus section. This is probably the easiest option - if we remove Bleez' riff we can get away with introducing a new element/section. However I like Bleez' riff and if we can keep it and come up with a strong chorus - I think the solution will be cool with a lot of character.
4 Keep the sections we have so far (http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=39355), and use a variation of the intro idea as chorus, this is what I am experimenting with now. The listener is already familiar with the intro - so if we can make it more rhythmic and bombastic with some cool harmonies we should be home.
I hope that made sense.
Good points here Kris. I am experimenting with ideas as well. Using a variation of the intro idea as chorus makes sense. That is a beautiful intro I must say
I am sure we will overcome the challenges of writing this song by doing the one thing which we have been doing from the beginning which is allow time for things to develop
Posted by: Amir Razmara Oct 21 2014, 08:32 AM
Here is another draft of this song. I tried repeating the 3rd intro for the chorus....I still think it's not good enough because it sounds typical. It doesn't quite do justice to the intro. But it's Verse, bridge, chorus idea. The Ideas I came up with for the bridge, chorus can be altered if you think that format will work for the song or we can abandon the bridge idea and try to come up with a chorus that would sound a bit more unique and exciting.
Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Oct 21 2014, 09:19 PM
Thanks for your ideas Amir and Bleez, you both have very cool variations going on which I hope we will get to use later in the song. I would like to try Amir's bridge possibly on the second verse (after 1st chorus). Also it would be cool to have an extended solo section that goes through a lot of riffs (it might allow us to squeeze in some which we haven't used yet).
I might I have figured out a possible solution for the chorus, it is reminiscent of Amir's latest guitar pro. Because it's so simplistic I need to work out the arrangement a bit more throughly for it to make sense. And I have started recording draft bass and plan to edit some drums tomorrow.
Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Oct 22 2014, 11:41 AM
Here is my idea for the chorus section (starting around 2 minutes - and wow as I write this it strikes me that it's a long wait for the chorus!) It uses the same chords as the intro but with two different "turnarounds" and almost has a punky vibe. But it will hopefully be heavier as the mix gets better/tighter and when vocals are added.
I have also added a (sloppy!) draft bass and added a short break before Bleez' section (01:18) as suggested by Amir. At that specific place in the song I am bit worried about adding new sections though - and I felt silence was kinda effective there.
What does everyone think?
intro_to_chorus.mp3 ( 4.11MB )
: 140
Posted by: bleez Oct 22 2014, 12:51 PM
sounding good to me I dont think 2 mins is too long for that chorus, it sounds about right.
after the chorus it would drop back down into the slower sounding riffs? that would be pretty cool
Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Oct 22 2014, 12:57 PM
I dont think 2 mins is too long for that chorus, it sounds about right.after the chorus it would drop back down into the slower sounding riffs? that would be pretty cool
Exactly - that's the plan. Cool to hear you think it will work!
Posted by: Amir Razmara Oct 22 2014, 06:52 PM
I have also added a (sloppy!) draft bass and added a short break before Bleez' section (01:18) as suggested by Amir. At that specific place in the song I am bit worried about adding new sections though - and I felt silence was kinda effective there.
What does everyone think?
intro_to_chorus.mp3 ( 4.11MB )
: 140Awesome
sounding good guys...I'm pleased with what we got so far. The song maintains a good feel and solid groove throughout. It can only get better from this point
Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Oct 26 2014, 03:46 PM
Here is an update, I have re-recorded most of the guitars and bass, started adding some layers and dubs, and started editing drums a bit - and some mixing.
song_collab_oct26.mp3 ( 4MB )
: 258
edit - see http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=53269for lead takes.
Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Nov 1 2014, 04:19 PM
Ok I have recorded a short vocal line (starting at 00:50) to try to get a feel for what... feel we should go for!
song_collab_vocal_test_nov1.mp3 ( 2.04MB )
: 186
Lyrics:
Yesterday I heard you say
Be my man and make love to me
But the problem is this, it wasn't to me!
But to an old and long time friend of ours
What do you do, and what do you say
When your life is about to sway away
Thanks to Amir for pointing out starting with “yesterday” makes more sense than “today”.
Any input is welcome!
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Nov 1 2014, 05:47 PM
Wou! It's awesome how this song is evolving! I love the powerful vocals added to the first verse, and the lyrics are hard as well. I?m also checking the longer instrumental demo and there are killer sections there.
Do you already have the whole structure in mind? What parts are lacking?
Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Nov 1 2014, 10:19 PM
Do you already have the whole structure in mind? What parts are lacking?
Thanks for commenting Gab!
Most of the riffs are there (although we will have to try them with vocals - but my gut feeling tells me it should work). I will try adding Amir's bridge riff (see his guitar pro file) in the second verse - and when we come to the long solo section we might add new section(s)/riffs. I am not really sure of the structure though.
For now I think the priority is to get some vocals down. This will also open up for some first solo spots, and hopefully we'll be able to involve some more people.
I also need to tweak the intro some more (it's a bit drafty). And when we have recorded vocals for the chorus, maybe return to the intro add some background choir there as it currently feels a little 'long'.
Posted by: Amir Razmara Nov 2 2014, 02:42 AM
song_collab_vocal_test_nov1.mp3 ( 2.04MB )
: 186Lyrics:
Yesterday I heard you say
Be my man and make love to me
But the problem is this, it wasn't to me!
But to an old and long time friend of ours
What do you do, and what do you say
When your life is about to sway away
Thanks to Amir for pointing out starting with “yesterday” makes more sense than “today”.
Any input is welcome!
Kris I like the vocal melody you did for the verse part, last week I came up with a line as well, but I thought It had some weak areas now that I compare both I see yours makes more sense and has more punch in to it. I have included the one I wrote at the very end of the Tabs just so you can see it. I had an Idea over Bleeze's part which is there as well.
For those of you guys who are following the tabs, every thing has been updated.
Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Nov 2 2014, 04:21 PM
I have done some more vocal experimenting and I also added some lines over Bleez' riff (01:16). It doesn't quite feel right to me yet though, so I need to digest it some more. I might try with a higher voice over Bleez' riff.
song_collab_vocal_test2_nov2.mp3 ( 3.42MB )
: 114
So far we got:
Yesterday, I heard you say
Be my man and make love to me
But the problem is this, it wasn't to me!
But to an old and long time friend of ours
What do you do, and what do you say
When your life is about to sway away
[solo break]
Unfaithful lies
Compromise
Sacrifice
Lies & lies & lies!
Posted by: Amir Razmara Nov 2 2014, 07:34 PM
Kris what do you think about adding more lyrics before "What do you do" line?
Yesterday, I heard you say
Be my man and make love to me
But the problem is this, it wasn't to me!
But to an old and long time friend of ours
I stumbled back and fell into a chair
My heart was heavy and my brain full of pain
What do you do, and what do you say
When your life is about to sway away
[solo break]
Unfaithful lies
Compromise
Sacrifice
Lies & lies & lies![/i]
Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Nov 3 2014, 10:31 PM
Cool Amir, this is a great opportunity to discuss some lyrics writing. I am by no means an expert on this topic - my strategy is rather to "get away" with as little injury as possible
After all one has to sing something, even though la la la and yeah yeah yeah can work sometimes. Seriously though, I personally need some kind of connection with the lyrics in order to sing them convincingly. Typically I will go for darker stuff since it just seems to match what I can deliver genre- and vocal wise.
My main strategy is to be abstract / cryptic, and this has some advantages:
* People can read in different meanings into the lyrics and this also increases chances of people liking them (they'll make up their own version of what they think the lyrics mean)
* it is much easier than telling a real story. Because if you go for telling a story, it requires consistency and correct language (haha and those two are definitely weaknesses of mine! ). Plus at the end of the story - it better be good or no one will like it. Again, with cryptic stuff people will have made up their own version of the songs' meaning - a bit like how you can paint a landscape in your mind when you read a book.
In this song collab's lyrics, I tried to be as cryptic as possible - and I only gave away some real facts in the very beginning of the text to establish a scenario: Someone has been cheated on and circumstances are nasty.
With this in mind I would say the line you added heads more into the story telling department, and I would have problems pulling that off or building upon that.
However I have included some more (draft) lyrics intended for the chorus - in case you want to have a go at writing something for verse 2.
If it wasn't for me, yeah you wouldn't be free
And you've sunk too low to disagree
[Choir:]Forgive and then move on just don't forget
You wont regret you tried to live
[Choir] Forgive - don't forget
I'm alive!
---
My current status is that I am trying to rethink the vocal recording, I am not happy with the current version.
Posted by: Amir Razmara Nov 4 2014, 03:53 PM
Kris, I'm glad to have your perspective on this. When writing that line I was thinking the verse could be a bit more balanced in terms of it's symmetry and length that's why I felt that 3rd line could use something to lead in to it to make everything square but the language I used is concrete as you mentioned and I agree It doesn't quite fit in. Perhaps a better line that is more on the cryptic side could work, that is if you wanted to have a symmetrical phrase, 8 bars & 4 lines. But after you explained about establishing the scenario and keeping it concise I can see how the original idea could work by it self.
BTW I think your being way too modest about your songwriting abilities. You are very good at what you do to say the least and I couldn't think of a better way to spent my time and energy than on a project like this.
Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Nov 5 2014, 03:30 PM
Ok bear with me -
I wasn’t really happy with the vocals so I have re-recorded and tweaked. They are bit more consistent now.
I am being picky here, because if vocals don't feel 100% right from start, I don't think the song is worth much.
Any feedback is welcome!
song_collab_vocal_test3_nov5.mp3 ( 3.36MB )
: 109
Yesterday, I heard you say
Be my man and make love to me
But the problem is this, it wasn't meant for me!
But for an old and long time friend of ours
What do you do, and what do you say
When your life is about to sway away
[solo break]
Lies and lies
Compromise
Sacrifice
Lies & lies & lies!
@ Amir thanks a million for your kind words! =) I see your point with adding a 3rd line - though I think the vocals have been pretty busy up to this point - so some kind of breathing room here would be nice.
Posted by: Amir Razmara Nov 5 2014, 06:23 PM
I think the previous version preserved more of that Kristofer Dahl character, in the way of aggression and humor. Here are some points about word enunciation in the previous version: the line"Yesterday, I heard you say" sounded a bit more serious and accusatory Which it needs to be because the song is making a point about her betrayal..... the new version sounded like a drunk man who didn't mind too much ( ) "Be my man and make love to me"got lost a bit in the new version. In the previous version I like the way you sing "But the problem is this" because it captures your humor more. Also over Bleeze's part...keeping the words "Unfaithful lies" is not a bad idea because it builds more momentum toward the 4th line "Lies & lies & lies". Also in the new version I don't hear the word "but" in the following line which makes that line less effective. These are just the things I am noticing what do you think?
But the problem is this, it wasn't meant for me!
--->But<---for an old and long time friend of ours
Posted by: Todd Simpson Nov 10 2014, 10:07 AM
I'm liking where this is all going I think! Still wanting some solo bits?
Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Nov 10 2014, 09:15 PM
Yes of course, please send any ideas you have!
Posted by: Amir Razmara Dec 2 2014, 04:45 AM
Kris please let us know when you'll have time to work more on this song
Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Dec 2 2014, 10:15 PM
Thanks so much Amir for supporting this one and showing you want to see final product!
I have certainly not forgotten about it but I felt it needed to rest a little bit. I find that instead of banging one's head against the wall it is better to focus on something else and then all of a sudden the solutions will come. For example I have a plan to actually work a little bit on singing a cover song, I probably haven't done that for 10 years if ever - but just to get some vocal insights and be able to return to this one.
One thing is for sure, if we manage to pull this one off I think it will be a powerful statement!
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