Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: Pavel Dec 19 2007, 11:11 AM

Hey my dear shredders!

There is the thing that keeps interfering with my life-plan which i need help with, so here is the short story:

You all know i study at university, 3rd year of Informatics. I love informatics and computers and all that goes with them but i hate my teachers for loads of reasons and one of them is being unprofessional. I have 2 exams left from my 2nd year so now after New Year i am getting into a period of time when i have to finish off all my exams, around 6-7 of them and after that goes the diploma and 2 more years to get a higher degree (just to mention -> the exams are not easy at all and require loads of homework to be done besides just studying).

Second part of my life is guitar, playing, practicing, music, GMC and everything related to it. I don't need to tell you about my passion for guitar and music - you all know it from my lessons.

Here comes the hard part: my mom wants me to finish off the university and start working a full-time job so i and she don't have to worry about my income, money and my overall life. I agree with her about "not worrying" but i don't agree about the office job from 8 to 16 each day.

Now here are the thoughts: maybe i should really quit this whole dream of becoming big guitar player and leave the guitar as my hobby and maybe in the future release a hobby CD, and pursue the IT career? Because these wars with my mom will never end and i am sick of trying to prove her wrong. My dad supports me in my guitar goals but he doesn't live with us and my parents are almost divorced.

So i would like to hear some opinions from those who are parents and have their own kids, that would help.

If you ask me - i don't know - i doubt about everything right now. Maybe it would be correct to let guitar go for a while, finish off the university, start working and let it flow like that?

Please approach this as a "parents to kids" point of view and not like "student -> instructor" point of view.
Thanks a bunch!

P.S. I respect and love my mom enough to quit playing and let her live in peace and happiness.

Posted by: muntahunta Dec 19 2007, 11:20 AM

im going to be in the same position as you in a years time so i wouldnt mind seeing some comments here too... although an 8 hour office job isnt too bad, theres still 16 hours left in the day and the human body only needs 6 hours of sleep. so theres 10 hours to go .

Posted by: Davide Dec 19 2007, 11:24 AM

Hi Pavel, I can imagine how you feel......... and suggestion are okay...... but I think you have to listen to your heart it´s not an easy decision but the right decision if you make a wise one.
I wish you anyhow the best....

Posted by: Pavel Dec 19 2007, 11:29 AM

QUOTE (Davide @ Dec 19 2007, 11:24 AM)

Posted by: DeepRoots Dec 19 2007, 11:32 AM

decisions like that are hard, but always worth it as they are so character building. Look at your choices and make a long hard decision for YOURSELF, not what anyone else wants you to do. There are obvious Pros and Cons to both, Good luck choosing though!

Posted by: mattacuk Dec 19 2007, 11:36 AM

This is a real toughy I know man ! Of course you want to follow your dreams, and why not! especially as you have acheived so much already. And your mom of course loves you and wants the best for you also, so your stuck at a cross roads !!

Is there no way you can work dureing the day and carry on your music studys in the evenings when you get home? You dont have to give you music careers goals up just because your working. If you decided to go to work you still can acheive your musical career if you keep up the hard work, im sure of it !

Posted by: Pavel Dec 19 2007, 11:43 AM

There is something i have to quit...either guitar playing or GMC University is tough, requires a lot of studying and it's impossible to practice that much, study and make lessons and record for GMC - impossible.

There are at least 3 more years before i start working - so my problem are these 3 years - i can't keep up with everything. If i want to get a degree this year (i mean summer 2008) i have to just study study and study right now.


There is one thing that drives me to more thinking: Rusty Cooley was born in a family of motocross bikers. His dad wanted him to be biker but Rusty sold his bike and bought a guitar. His dad hated him from that day on. But today he's BIG man. Why does it sound so familiar to my case....i'm at the beginning of his story and it already sucks

Posted by: David.C.Bond Dec 19 2007, 11:45 AM

This is definately a tough decision. In your position I would personally go ahead with the IT career, but keep doing music in your free time, and keep pursuing the dream of music as a living. Because one day, if the oppurtunity arises to be able to make a living solely from music, then you can take it, but if it doesn't then you still have the IT to fall back on and you can carry on with the music as a hobby!

I had to make the same decision when I decided to study orchestration and composition over performance. Granted they are both music options, but I decided there was much greater career options as a composer than a performer, and I can still use all my free time for performance related activities.

Hope that helps, and I'm sure you'll make the right decision

David

Posted by: Muris Dec 19 2007, 12:21 PM

Hard one
Main problem today is that we have too choose between more or less "wrong" things,
good thing mostly isn't the option,everything is so unsure these days...
Which means that we all have to risk here and there.
As you said Pavel,keeping your mom happy will make you a bit unhappy,and opposite.
Good thing here is that you love IT and computers,
tho fax usually "kills" with unnecessary and unneeded things,taking too much of your time.
Hard decision indeed,try to follow your heart while going for higher degree,
wish you all luck here!!

Posted by: Dejan Dec 19 2007, 12:22 PM

You have reached a crossroads and have to decide wich way to proceed, welcome to the adult world

It's great that you respect your mother, but the wrong thing would be if you do something to satisfy her, instead of yourself

So, to avoid of giving any advice I will tell you my situation

When I was in secondary school, I was playing guitar in some bands and even thinking of leaving school (didn't like to study things that I find not interesting), but my mother didn't let me, she said that I will finish the secondary school and after that I can do whatever I want. I am thankfull to her for that

Now, many years after, I have a 9-5 job to pay my bills, managed to buy some equipment to build a small home studio, and basically the rest of my time I spend mainly around music, sport and pets (I wish a day lasts longer) but if you love something you will find a way and time to work on that.
So I don't see that you have to give up your musical career, just to sacrifice some time to finish the studies

Especially I don't see a reason to give-up GMC, no one is forcing you to prepare lessons, if you are able to produce even one lesson a month it would be great and someone will benefit from that

I wish you all the best with whatever you decide

p.s. we usually ask for advice when we know the solution, but we don't like it

Posted by: Pavel Dec 19 2007, 12:36 PM

The solution we know usually sucks so it's like not a solution I was also thinking that way, i mean like: "If i have a job i will be able to build a studio and spend some money on gear and musical stuff..." Will see, will see...

Posted by: mattacuk Dec 19 2007, 12:54 PM

Well 3 years is a long way off Pavel, who knows what you can acheive by then !

Life usually has a way of sorting itself out I find !

Posted by: Smells Dec 19 2007, 01:05 PM

For me mate I would definatly finish your Uni course, after then, I would be more than willing (if I where your parents) to support you while you tried to get a musical career off the ground, your too good to be a "bedroom hero" so its well worth giving it a shot, as your parent I`d help you as much as I possibly could.

At the end of the day, you will have your qualifications to fall back on, there is of course the hard fact of reality that you didnt manage to make it pay, but hey if you`ve given it your best shot and done all you can then I would certainly not class that as failure in any way shape or form.

And what if you do make it pay, thats a win win and I`d be as proud as hell of my kid.

That my two pennies worthfinish Uni then go for it!

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Dec 19 2007, 01:47 PM

Look at it this way - concentrating on Uni is not the death of your music ... it will for sure slow everything down as you will spend less time on it, but it is a kind of insurance. If you get your degree, you can still become a full time musician the day after, or you have the option to make music a hobby for a while whilst earning some good money - its all about options, and you do have options - you are already proving to the world that you can make money out of music (look at GMC!) - a lot of aspiring musicians never get to that stage, and you are way above the norm in the skill level that you have.

From my (admittedly much older) perspective, I don't see that you have any problem other than getting through the next couple of years (I'm not minimizing it, but I don't see it as life altering either). In 2 years time you will have a degree, AND you will be a better musician. At that point you have many, many options

Posted by: Tank Dec 19 2007, 02:09 PM

As a parent, I'm kind of with your mom on this (sorry).

If I was working it out, to become a working guitarist, you'll either have to:
A: Write something so spectacular, that everyone hails you as the next genius
B: Get out there, and do as many gigs as possible, graft at it, and show the venues that you are a solid, dependable, decent performer.

A is a slim chance bet. B is very doable, BUT, you've got to spend time at it. You may have to be prepared to move to another country, and start up new, playing in bars and clubs 3 nights a week. It may take 2 years of hard graft, to get into the venues that have national press reviews, and to move up into the national music scene. Maybe another year or so to get into the international circuit. And in these first two years, the likelyhood is that the money you make from gigging won't pay the rent. It would be useful to be able to walk into a local company and say "I've got a degree in IT". A daytime job will pay the bills, while the band working in the evening would keep the music going. And then if the music takes off and you are making money, quit your dayjob.

Remember that not every musician who was working (and perhaps famous) 10 years ago, is doing it now. I was gigging as a guitarist full time, I'm not now. At times like that, you have to fall back on any education you've got. You don't want to be job hunting as a 30 something year old, with no qualifications behind you other than "I can play a mean guitar".

And I know that three years can feel like a loooonnnggg time. But trust me, it isn't No-ones going to look at you on stage in a couple of years and say "Look at that guitarist, what age is he 22?? He's past it!"

I'd say, get your degree over and done with, then pour the next 3 years of your life into serious guitar. Gig like a demon, work hard, and if you make it work good stuff. And if you don't make it work, you're not all the way back at square one.

BTW, I didn't do it the way I've just described. I just strapped a guitar to my back, and got on the first boat away from Ireland when I was around 19.

Posted by: Twibeard Dec 19 2007, 02:18 PM

QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Dec 19 2007, 01:47 PM)

Look at it this way - concentrating on Uni is not the death of your music ... it will for sure slow everything down as you will spend less time on it, but it is a kind of insurance. If you get your degree, you can still become a full time musician the day after, or you have the option to make music a hobby for a while whilst earning some good money - its all about options, and you do have options - you are already proving to the world that you can make money out of music (look at GMC!) - a lot of aspiring musicians never get to that stage, and you are way above the norm in the skill level that you have.
From my (admittedly much older) perspective, I don't see that you have any problem other than getting through the next couple of years (I'm not minimizing it, but I don't see it as life altering either). In 2 years time you will have a degree, AND you will be a better musician. At that point you have many, many options

Posted by: lefty01 Dec 19 2007, 02:26 PM

Finish your degree. You'll always have that to fall back on, if you need it. Ya know something? It is not written in stone, that you'll be working in the office for the rest of your life. Having a degree to fall back on, that is never a bad thing. I'm just speaking from experience. I am 39, and in the middle of seeking a degree myself...something I should have done a long, long time ago. Get all the education you can while you are young, without kids, and a wife. Once that happens, EVERYTHING else is put to the side.
You are a wonderul talent. The sad fact is, so many great musicians never "make it", and the few that do...well, sometimes that does not last long. I sincerely wish you all the best in your education and work, as I do with your musical career. You are a huge talent, and a smart guy. How could you not do well in anything you attempt.
Keep us informed on how things are going. We are family..ya know?

Posted by: MickeM Dec 19 2007, 02:32 PM

Being able to live from guitar playing I belive is only for a few out of every skilled musician with that dream. It's easier of course if you have your family on your side since without an income you have to rely on them. Even if you would succeed your dream I bet the first years would be very hard on the economy.

However, my stance with my own kids is that I will let them make their choices in life and I will not interfear but I will do everything to make them succeed. I've learned my lesson from being "tactical" myself and heading for an IT career, mostly to get a well payed job. That's where I am today but frankly... I'm so bored with IT I'm counting the years to retirement... little less than 30 to go.
If I would have thought less tactical in planning my future I still don't know which way I would have gone but how I have felt for the past years it's definitly about music of some sort, more space for it.

So if my kids want to go their ways I will of course tell them that fulfilling their dreams may come at a high cost but never the less if they are happy doing whatever they decide that's more important than a large income. Rather feeding the soul than the wallet is better for yourself, for your happiness. But sadly a steady income is an important fact of life. I can see it from your moms point of view, she sees music business as difficult - which is is - and not a place where to earn money (true for most)


My suggestion to you would be to finish your education, it's only a couple of more years. At that point you either go for an IT job or full out musician. If you fail, you always have your education to fall back to.
If that would get you off on the wrong foot with your mom think about that it's YOUR life and YOUR choises. When you're 65 and look back on your career I hope you'll find that at least your tried your hardest to do what's best for your own happiness. Because if you go from 25-65 always regretting that second choice that will be hard on you.

Posted by: Milenkovic Ivan Dec 19 2007, 02:42 PM

QUOTE (Pavel @ Dec 19 2007, 11:11 AM)

Posted by: Pavel Dec 19 2007, 03:04 PM

Alright, lots of things to think about here...thanks for your posts! Really appreciate it

Posted by: coffeeman Dec 19 2007, 03:27 PM

Hi Pavel,

Im 31 years old(32 next week), when I was your age I didn't know what to do in live, I loved sports , I loved guitar(of course I wasn't as good as you are) but at that moment I didn't had the balls to make the decision to became a profesional footbal player or a wonderful musician so I decided to go for my carreer , electronic engineering. In my 4th year of carreer I was a mess, I hated electornics and I didn't know what to do, my mom is a math teacher so imagine what she was thinking, of course she wasn't supporting me on leaving the uni. So I had only 1 year left to finish the uni, but I decided to quit I wasn't happy doing what I was doing. So I find a job and 3 years later after that job I found another job at as a coffee trader. 4 years later I decided to quit that job and to create my own company with no money on my pocket and 1 year later here I am , doing something that I really love, working a lot and living the live I really want, now my mom is happy too , it take me a couple of years but now she understands what I did. So what I tell to people that is confused is to persue their dreams, life is too short to be doing something that you don't love. So there is the answer , do what you love, do it with passion and you will succeed, I don't know if is your IT carrer or your music carreer, you are the only one that knows that. The important thing is to do what you love, and you will be happy and your mom will be too.

Bye.

Posted by: Gerald Dec 19 2007, 05:11 PM

Pavel,

For what it's worth; I think you should stay in school to get the education you need to make it in the IT field. It doesn't mean you have to give up guitar for forever though; it just means that in the short term, you need to place your focus on school. You can still be an accomplished musician with a full time job.

From your post, I think what is stressing you is your mom. As an adult she has more life experience and is trying to do her best to guide you to a sucessful life. I had a some what similar situation when I was 18 - had graduated high school and had a lot of pressure from my father. I decided to move out and strike out on my own. I didn't go to college, but I made it in the IT field the hardway. If I had went to school I'd probably be driving a 911 as apposed to a STI. So coming from someone who didn't go to school and wish he had, I recommend that you stick with school and you'll be in a better situation in the long run because you'll have the backup of an education to fall back on if your music doesn't pay the bills.

Posted by: tonymiro Dec 19 2007, 07:00 PM

I have an on-going conversation with my wife as to what we would like and what we would accept for and from our little girl when she's around about your age Pavel.

Neither me nor my wife are overly materialistic and don't place too much value on possessions, a high wage, career etc. I packed in a relatively well paid career many years ago as I didn't enjoy the job. We prefer to place our emphasis on happiness, with the caveat being that in our modern society you need a minimum income to achieve this. We've spent a fair bit of time working out what our break even point is and how we can match it with work that we want to do. It has however meant giving up a lot of things that we used to take for granted. We also had to work out various contingency plans as there is a breakpoint which we will not go below.

I dare say that only you can know what level of income might make you happy. I would say that lack of money, particularly if you're materialistic, can make a person unhappy. Lots of money however won't necessarily make you happy. We have lots of friends and family who have high incomes who are not happy.
There are also lots of ways to find personal fulfillment - and they're not all about career and income.

At the moment our daughter says she wants to be an artist and that's fine by us if it makes her happy (last month she wanted to be a vet and that was fine too). But we would also require that she studies so that she has enough income to be safe - that is that she has food, medical care, accommodation etc. So as a parent, as an absolute minimum, I would want her to be able to convince me that she would be happy and safe.

(Our ideal is somewhat higher then this of course and the closer to the ideal she gets the more comfortable I am. Our ideal is that she attends and graduates at Masters or PhD level from a major international University and then travels and sees some of the world before settling in to a career choice and family life. I might say that I tend to believe that a Masters is nowadays required as an entry qualification if you don't have considerable work experience. Most of Western Europe has undergraduate completion rates for youths in the 40-60% range, so a Masters helps you 'stand out from the crowd'. )

As part of this I'd want some reassurance that whatever she decided to do wasn't going to be a short term thing that lasts for a few months/years before being usurped by something else. Here I would also want her to convince me that whatever she chose would not reduce her options of other things in the future unreasonably. Now here I would say that completing your course does not stop you becoming a musician later on BUT not completing and dropping out now could limit your options to do many other things later on.

I'm sure you've had lots of conversations with your mum about this but generally. Now as much as all parents want the world for their children parents are usually pragmatic enough to realise that isn't possible. What may help here is to consider what she would see as her minimum and her ideal standard for you, compare it with yours and then see if you can reach a compromise?

Best of luck.

Cheers,
Tony

Posted by: SLASH91 Dec 19 2007, 07:22 PM

I'm only in my junior year of highschool, but I'm already planning ahead. I've decided that I wan't to be a professional guitarist, and that I won't be truely happy with anything else. But I also know that I do have to have something to fall back on, so I am planning probably on going to college. I don't like, but thats just the way things are. I'd also probably recommend finishing your degree. After you have a steady job, pursue your dream of being a professional guitarist. It can be done! But whatever you chose, I wish you well!

Posted by: RobM Dec 19 2007, 07:57 PM

QUOTE (Pavel @ Dec 19 2007, 05:11 AM)

Posted by: Pavel Dec 19 2007, 08:24 PM

Thanks guys!

One important thing i forgot to mention is that i am not planning on quitting my university, just delaying the exams for 1 year. Before this i really wanted to quit the uni but after long fights with my mom i agreed to finish it off. We also agreed that i will not finish it this summer as i have a lot of stuff going on with guitar which is way more important to me personally than university. now - she wants me to give all the exams and get a degree THIS SUMMER which is ridiculous and almost impossible considering i still want to practice guitar and work at GMC.

It may be easy to say: "Well, don't do lessons at GMC for now!" but it's the only source of income i have and i never ask my parents for money because i earn it here. My mom would never buy me a 2000$ guitar because she doesn't earn that much and i never asked her to do it - now i can do it myself but now it's AGAIN not good enough for her

I am not saying that she is hungry for money because she is not -> she just spent 1500$ on my first car even if i told her i will pay it myself but she still gave me her money. In the end - when i sum everything up - i just don't understand what she wants. oh, and - we had MILLIONS of conversations

I told her i will finish my education and even start working if i get a good opportunity but her plans for me change every week - it's getting SO irritating and impossible to coupe with

Thanks for your posts!

Posted by: Fsgdjv Dec 19 2007, 08:54 PM

It sounds like you've come to a good choice, Pavel. Even though, I'd still like to add a piece of advice from me, both younger and less wise than you. Basically, what I like to think when it comes to these important choices, is not what's best for me, etc, but I'll try to make the choice that I won't regret in the future. And, if I were in your shoes, I'd finish of Uni (with a masters degree) and then put 100% into trying to make it with a musical carrer.

Anyways, as you seem to already have decided, I just have to say that I think you made the right decision, and also, I have no doubt that you will make it with the music if you try hard after finishing off the university. I'm looking forward to the day I can say "hey, I knew about that guy a long time before he got famous, he tought me all I know about the guitar!" when I see something about you being famous and awesome in a few years.