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GMC Forum _ CHILL OUT _ I Know This Is Touchy..
Posted by: beebo Oct 12 2009, 04:20 AM
Hi GMC Family,
I know this is touchy and i dont mean to start arguments but im just wondering this...or actually ive wondered this before....how many of you here do or dont belive in God? You dont have to comment but feel free.
Posted by: skennington Oct 12 2009, 04:38 AM
I'm a believer! 
Posted by: David Wallimann Oct 12 2009, 04:46 AM
I'm a believer too.
I think I would not be who I am today without faith...
Posted by: OzRob Oct 12 2009, 04:56 AM
I'm a believer.
Having studied philosophy, theology and science I would add that I realise that most believers (in whatever religion) and non-believers, generally have good reasons for believing or not believing....so the word of the day is 'Respect'.
Spend some time in a third world country, or with disabled people, or helping the homeless....and you will get the picture that we all can and need to work together for good.
Our beliefs should not divide us, but our actions should define us...as all being human.
Posted by: David Wallimann Oct 12 2009, 04:57 AM
I know this is touchy and i dont mean to start arguments but im just wondering this...or actually ive wondered this before....how many of you here do or dont belive in God? You dont have to comment but feel free.
How about you bebo? :-)
Posted by: audiopaal Oct 12 2009, 07:54 AM
I'm a non-believer
Posted by: Bondy Oct 12 2009, 08:04 AM
I don't believe in God.
Posted by: Staffy Oct 12 2009, 08:14 AM
Thats a tough question in many ways. I'm a believer in God, but not necessarily as it says in the bible since its written by humans... (I've studied religion a lot earlier in my life) That might be the same God all of us worship in the end, we humans just tells different stories... (eg. Christians, Jews, Muslims etc..) Btw. even the Big Bang theory has now been rejected by many scientists, since someone proved that the human DNA cannot be constructed by coincidence..
//Staffay
Posted by: CathShadow Oct 12 2009, 08:18 AM
I'm a Believer 
+
Posted by: Koopid Oct 12 2009, 09:04 AM
Active Atheist
Posted by: Laszlo Boross Oct 12 2009, 09:39 AM
I have three children and yes, I believe in God.
Posted by: Skalde Oct 12 2009, 10:27 AM
I wish I would, but I don't
Posted by: Keilnoth Oct 12 2009, 10:30 AM
Active atheist here, I only believe in myself.
And I am not a creationist.
Posted by: Matt23 Oct 12 2009, 11:07 AM
I'm a believer, but I can definitely understand atheist's point of view.
Posted by: Koopid Oct 12 2009, 11:46 AM
//Staffay
hehe, I would say that is impossible to prove. Besides, noone said that human DNA is constructed by coincidence. Human DNA is (if you believe in the scientific approach) evolved from simpler patterns..
Posted by: Matt23 Oct 12 2009, 11:53 AM
The existence of the big bang though is not proof that God doesn't exist imo.
Yeh, I think the bible isn't meant to be literally true, I think all the stories are metaphors, giving advice on different situations.
Posted by: enforcer Oct 12 2009, 12:15 PM
I am an Panentheist. That means I don't think that God is a seperate creator, but is the combined consciousness of all that exists, and more. And also I don't think that God have to be "all good" but rather than that, he/she/it is natural.
Posted by: playaxeman Oct 12 2009, 12:24 PM
Nothing to be a ashamed of:
I believe in a living God and his Son Jesus
Posted by: Marcus Siepen Oct 12 2009, 12:42 PM
One more for the Atheist front here 
Of course belief is something very personal, but I dont see any problem talking about it.
Posted by: Vasilije Vukmirovic Oct 12 2009, 12:44 PM
Believer, but I am not religious!
Posted by: MirkoSchmidt Oct 12 2009, 12:53 PM
hey, i was a believer a few years ago. somebody told me something about god and i was very interested in that. So i went to a church, i liked it very much, there were much young people, they had music cool music with e-guitars and so i get a member there.
A year later i was a preacher and missionary in a free church in my town, but over the next two years i lost my faith, becasue of seeing to much bad things.
by the way i gratuated a bible-college.
now im a atheist, and im annoying about spending so much time for that... i could be a very good guitar-player if accounted that time to play guitar and not preach that crap...
Posted by: ZakkWylde Oct 12 2009, 01:07 PM
Atheist
Posted by: Jesse Oct 12 2009, 01:45 PM
I'm not a strict Christian, or somethinglike that. But I believe that there is someone or something above,
Posted by: Sollesnes Oct 12 2009, 03:09 PM
I believe there is more to the world than we know, or can even ever comprehend. God? Just the universe? Who knows.
There are many things that can be said, but I think that just being content is the most important. It's not like we'll ever -know-.
Posted by: superize Oct 12 2009, 03:10 PM
I dont really know.....
i think i am stuck in between
Posted by: Boson Oct 12 2009, 03:19 PM
I find it very difficult to believe that there is a god though I recognise that many people get great inspiration and comfort from their faith. I dont need a god for that, a walk in the hills or a smile from my daughter is enough for me!
So in short I am an athiest, that is my belief.
Organised religion does bother me greatly as it is used so often as a means of opression and an excuse for war and conflict.
Posted by: Skalde Oct 12 2009, 04:07 PM
And I am not a creationist.
That's what Satanists do
I do not believe in god, won't call it atheism, it's more like agnosticism.
Posted by: audiopaal Oct 12 2009, 04:11 PM
Well said
Posted by: Rated Htr Oct 12 2009, 04:37 PM
Active Atheist
Posted by: Fran Oct 12 2009, 04:58 PM
I need to believe in Something.
Posted by: JVM Oct 12 2009, 05:12 PM
Agnostic. I don't know what to believe, but I can't accept that our organized religion is the right spiritual path, there are too many little rules, loopholes and divisions. I don't see that our churches of today are any different than the pagan practices that they've replaced and incorporated. I also think the 'answer' is out there, as far as how we have come to be here, the history of the universe itself etc.
I don't hold any personal grudges against religion, and I used to attend church, but my mind doesn't accept that as the answer.
Posted by: Chokehold Oct 12 2009, 05:13 PM
Atheist.
And what do you guys mean with "Active Atheist?"
Do you go around and tell other people to stop believing in god or what?
Posted by: David Wallimann Oct 12 2009, 05:24 PM
This has always been an interesting topic to me...
I think many many people believe in something more..
It's such a hard topic though, things get complicated especially because of religion.
Religion is I think something made by men to organize, categorize and make sense of things that are beyond us...
That's why so many are turned off by it. Rules and regulations often made by men are defeating the whole purpose of what I think God intended for us.
I believe that all the God wants is to restore the relationship that was once broken. He just wants us to come back to him, and I think he made a way for that...
Very interesting topic! :-)
Posted by: Rated Htr Oct 12 2009, 05:46 PM
And what do you guys mean with "Active Atheist?"
Do you go around and tell other people to stop believing in god or what?
For me, it means that at this moment, I still don't believe in God and come up with many reasons to say he doesn't exist.
Posted by: playaxeman Oct 12 2009, 05:46 PM
"Do you go around and tell other people to stop believing in god or what? smile.gif
Yes what do you mean with active atheist?
Posted by: Frederik Oct 12 2009, 05:50 PM
I find that religion is the cause of to many violent conflicts. Therefore i distance myself from religion, but sometimes it can be a relief to have a higher power to carry ones sins and responsebility.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEgUUTkqRRQ&feature=player_embedded
Posted by: Frej10 Oct 12 2009, 05:52 PM
Is there any proof that "God" actually exists ? Because a lot of people have proven that he/she/it doesn't exist !
Posted by: vampire18 Oct 12 2009, 05:53 PM
total atheist
Posted by: Chokehold Oct 12 2009, 06:07 PM
Well if you compare an active religious person to that I can't see how that's an active one.
Or maybe, I don't really know how you can be an active Atheist otherwise.
Posted by: Skalde Oct 12 2009, 06:09 PM
You say something is proven, how can there be proof for the contrary?
btw: You can proove nothing
Posted by: David Wallimann Oct 12 2009, 06:10 PM
What might be "proof" to someone might not be to someone else..
I think that's where faith comes in..
I see proof of his existence by just looking out the window.. But I'm not expecting everyone to see that as proof either...
Posted by: purple hayes Oct 12 2009, 06:21 PM
I'm a protestant Christian. Some days by faith is stronger than others.
I think the reason I'm at my current church is because the music director is so good at what he does. He has us playing stuff that I'd never do on my own. Some days what we play can be really powerful stuff.
Posted by: Frej10 Oct 12 2009, 07:14 PM
btw: You can proove nothing
Of course you can prove anything with the help of science !
We have for example proven that the Earth isn't 6000 years old, as the bible says, but several billions years old with the help of the Carbon 14 method.
A virgin can't give birth to child, like Mary would have done. An "human" egg is only composed of 23 cromosomes and need another 23 that come from the sperm to start the process of making a baby.
It is also proven that it is impossible to walk on water, which Jesus "did" in the Bible. The tension of the water isn't dense enough for the human body.
These are only a few evidences that make me understand that Christiany is nothing else than a "written history written for grown up children".
Posted by: David Wallimann Oct 12 2009, 07:28 PM
I think the reason I'm at my current church is because the music director is so good at what he does. He has us playing stuff that I'd never do on my own. Some days what we play can be really powerful stuff.
Great to hear man! :-)
Posted by: Matt23 Oct 12 2009, 07:48 PM
We have for example proven that the Earth isn't 6000 years old, as the bible says, but several billions years old with the help of the Carbon 14 method.
A virgin can't give birth to child, like Mary would have done. An "human" egg is only composed of 23 cromosomes and need another 23 that come from the sperm to start the process of making a baby.
It is also proven that it is impossible to walk on water, which Jesus "did" in the Bible. The tension of the water isn't dense enough for the human body.
These are only a few evidences that make me understand that Christiany is nothing else than a "written history written for grown up children".
I haven't read the bible, so I can't comment on any specific examples, but I believe it is meant to be taken metaphorically, not literally. I see where your coming from though.
What proof is there?
Posted by: Eat-Sleep-andJam Oct 12 2009, 07:49 PM
I have a lot to say on the issue:
I have had the Christian Faith shoved down my throat sense I was little.
I am not saying it is a bad thing or a good thing. I was forced into believing something because of my parents.
I don't think it was right on there part. I know there just trying to encourage Christianity and what not, because the fabric of that religion in particular has alot of good ethical morals and values, that if lived by correctly....good enhance ones life a lot.
But after being part of it for so long and seeing how devoted some of the Catholics were, I had to get out. Until Evolution is proven or something can be said about all the loop holes in many religions, I can't commit to one.
I got mad every time when I was younger when I would pray faithfully to something when I was little and never had any results, I would find me self saying things like..." Well if you were real, why did all these bad things happen?" , If there was some higher power during this time, why didn't it intervene and try to help ?
I guess I was mad from the get go because I didn't have a choice but I also often found myself saying things like :
"Well there a tons of religions out there, whos to say I am right ? And that everyone else is wrong?
I finally came to the conclusion that I don't need any of that to be happy. Until there is proof of something, I will sit on the sidelines rather then devoting my life to something that my be 100% false.
I see religion as blueprint for people to live happy lifes. If you need the manual, that's fine. If you don't that's fine too.
Posted by: lcsdds Oct 12 2009, 07:56 PM
I have had the Christian Faith shoved down my throat sense I was little.
I am not saying it is a bad thing or a good thing. I was forced into believing something because of my parents.
I don't think it was right on there part. I know there just trying to encourage Christianity and what not, because the fabric of that religion in particular has alot of good ethical morals and values, that if lived by correctly....good enhance ones life a lot.
But after being part of it for so long and seeing how devoted some of the Catholics were, I had to get out. Until Evolution is proven or something can be said about all the loop holes in many religions, I can't commit to one.
I got mad every time when I was younger when I would pray faithfully to something when I was little and never had any results, I would find me self saying things like..." Well if you were real, why did all these bad things happen?" , If there was some higher power during this time, why didn't it intervene and try to help ?
I guess I was mad from the get go because I didn't have a choice but I also often found myself saying things like :
"Well there a tons of religions out there, whos to say I am right ? And that everyone else is wrong?
I finally came to the conclusion that I don't need any of that to be happy. Until there is proof of something, I will sit on the sidelines rather then devoting my life to something that my be 100% false.
I see religion as blueprint for people to live happy lifes. If you need the manual, that's fine. If you don't that's fine too.
Sounds like you and I have had the same experience. I was raised Mormon and both my family and my wife's family have a long history of Mormonism in our families. I'm 38 now and for many reasons over the last 2 years I decided I was done with Mormonism......and religion in general for that matter. This seemingly simple decision damn near cost my my marriage and my kids. Luckily my wife and I have come to terms with making our relationship work but I'll tell you what.....I have a whole new understanding of what cults are and why it isn't so easy to just "get out". I was able to "get out" but the price has been EXTREMELY high.
I don't know if I believe in God or not.....but I know one thing and that is that I have NO NEED of any religion made by MAN. Humans can take a good thing and 99.9% of the time turn it into a bad thing.
Posted by: Wabba Oct 12 2009, 07:57 PM
We have for example proven that the Earth isn't 6000 years old, as the bible says, but several billions years old with the help of the Carbon 14 method.
A virgin can't give birth to child, like Mary would have done. An "human" egg is only composed of 23 cromosomes and need another 23 that come from the sperm to start the process of making a baby.
It is also proven that it is impossible to walk on water, which Jesus "did" in the Bible. The tension of the water isn't dense enough for the human body.
These are only a few evidences that make me understand that Christiany is nothing else than a "written history written for grown up children".
Interesting. But Isn't god the god just because he/she's the god. OK, can't say anything to that 6k years thing, but still. I mean... A god is a god because he/she can do things that non-gods can not do, right? Or then I'm just wrong (again), whatever...
Anyways, I personally don't believe in god, but I've been wondering some things at nights:
Why the universe was born? Because the big bang, sure, why not, but why was there a big bang? Perhaps this is a just one universe in the endless chain of universes, a new one borns everytime an old one dies.. But why is there there such a chain, anyway? Did god create it? If did, then where did god come from? My point is that, Why is there a thing as reality, when there could as well be nothing. Where could all these atoms possible have come from? From nothing? What is this, and why it is this? I don't understand, and probably nobody never understands, and thinking this really makes me confused...
Posted by: Eat-Sleep-andJam Oct 12 2009, 08:00 PM
I don't know if I believe in God or not.....but I know one thing and that is that I have NO NEED of any religion made by MAN. Humans can take a good thing and 99.9% of the time turn it into a bad thing.
I could only imagine how bad that must have been. Mormon does in fact take it to a new level.
Posted by: Frej10 Oct 12 2009, 08:04 PM
What proof is there?
How can you take the fact that the earth is 6000 years old, according to the Bible, metaphorically ?
I strongly recomend you to read "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins.
Posted by: lcsdds Oct 12 2009, 08:05 PM
Yeah.....it's difficult to understand unless you have been part of the religion. It was awful though. I'm over it now and my family is in tact so that's good. I don't know that knowing what I know now that I would make the same decision to "get out" now. They basically hold your family hostage and say "believe or lose EVERYTHING"........
Posted by: Matt23 Oct 12 2009, 08:10 PM
I strongly recomend you to read "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins.
To your first point, isn't it just creationists who believe the earth to be 6000 years old (I don't).
And yes I'd be interested to read that.
Posted by: Skalde Oct 12 2009, 08:15 PM
Posted by: Eat-Sleep-andJam Oct 12 2009, 08:35 PM
I strongly recomend you to read "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins.
I really want to read that book aswell.
Posted by: Lester Oct 12 2009, 08:36 PM
I'm an active believer!!
And believe in the bible from cover to cover, interpetation is an issue though
I think you can never have a 100% same opinion about this because it's just too broad with so many interpretations possible.
But in my humble opinion it doesn't always matter, so many people fight on small details, for me, when the gospel stays intact, I'm fine.
But what is the gospel? Might be something different for me than for you, get what I mean? Interpretation
And about "creation or evolution?", you will never end discussing that!!
You name me a book that "proves" creationism can't be true and I'll name you a book that "proves" evolution ain't right and creation is.
You're not a believer because something is proven, It's a faith!!
I BELIEVE that the Bible is Gods word, I BELIEVE what it says is true, thus I BELIEVE in creation.
What does that make me? a BELIEVER!!! 
In my humble opinion evolution is a faith too!!
Posted by: David Wallimann Oct 12 2009, 08:39 PM
We have for example proven that the Earth isn't 6000 years old, as the bible says, but several billions years old with the help of the Carbon 14 method.
A virgin can't give birth to child, like Mary would have done. An "human" egg is only composed of 23 cromosomes and need another 23 that come from the sperm to start the process of making a baby.
It is also proven that it is impossible to walk on water, which Jesus "did" in the Bible. The tension of the water isn't dense enough for the human body.
These are only a few evidences that make me understand that Christiany is nothing else than a "written history written for grown up children".
You're right, these things are impossible...
But that's why these things are called miracles, right?
Anyways, I'm not trying to convince anyone of my own beliefs..
Just wanted to point out that you are absolutely right, those things are impossible. But for believers, what is impossible to man is possible to God, which makes him God.
Faith is definitely not something that anyone can force on anyone. If anyone is a believer, he will have to agree that it was because of a personal encounter of God that he is what he is today...
That's why all debates between believers and non believers often turn into a big mess.
My beliefs in a God who loved us so much that he would make himself man to die for my sins is completely foolishness to men (including me).. That's where faith comes in I guess...
Posted by: Matt23 Oct 12 2009, 08:51 PM
Yeh, I think it is alright to have your own beliefs, but to try and force them on unwilling people is wrong, and a lot of bad things have happened as a result of people doing that.
We have for example proven that the Earth isn't 6000 years old, as the bible says, but several billions years old with the help of the Carbon 14 method.
A virgin can't give birth to child, like Mary would have done. An "human" egg is only composed of 23 cromosomes and need another 23 that come from the sperm to start the process of making a baby.
It is also proven that it is impossible to walk on water, which Jesus "did" in the Bible. The tension of the water isn't dense enough for the human body.
These are only a few evidences that make me understand that Christiany is nothing else than a "written history written for grown up children".
Also something I like to add, is that you can believe in God and not believe everything in the bible, and not follow a religion. I think that's where I am. I believe in God, but I do it in my own way, with help from the bible etc. I don't blindly follow every rule, and writing because it is part of a religion. I definitely see why you think as you do though, sicne I was like that not more than a couple of years ago.
Posted by: jer Oct 12 2009, 08:54 PM
non-believer.
The fact that you have all types of people all over the world creating religions that satisy a need to bleieve in a higher power is all the reasoning I need.
Some people want/need to be led.
I don't.
Posted by: playaxeman Oct 12 2009, 08:57 PM
I don't know if I believe in God or not.....but I know one thing and that is that I have NO NEED of any religion made by MAN. Humans can take a good thing and 99.9% of the time turn it into a bad thing.
Sorry to hear that this wounded both of you in a way. It is kinda sad to read this. Thank you for you honesty on this personal part.
Hope things will turn for the good.
Posted by: opeth.db Oct 12 2009, 09:18 PM
Was atheist for 31 years. Now I believed for the past 4 years. I attend church regularly and in a worship band.
Untill to you discover GOD on your own it makes all the sense to me why you wouldn't beleive in one.
Posted by: Tomas Santa Clara Oct 12 2009, 09:29 PM
i belive that humanity is god and god is humanity simple has that
Posted by: David Wallimann Oct 12 2009, 09:31 PM
Untill to you discover GOD on your own it makes all the sense to me why you wouldn't beleive in one.
Exactly, well said!
I think God reveals himself to us personally...
Posted by: Ctodd Oct 12 2009, 09:36 PM
Sure, something had to create this universe that we live in. I'll call whatever that something is God.
that's where my "belief" in God stops. I don't believe in the all-knowing, all-good God that most religious folks believe in.
So in short I keep with the scientific side of things.
I wish this was the approach everyone took. Rather than having what God is "taught" to you in church.
Posted by: playaxeman Oct 12 2009, 09:41 PM
I think God reveals himself to us personally...
I agree on that.
Posted by: jer Oct 12 2009, 09:55 PM
And herein lies the problem in my opinion.
When "people" get involved in someones "faith".
Teacher led prayer in school, pressure from parents, community, or whomever to "follow the herd", some regular dude standing at the front of the congregation telling you you're going to burn in hell because of a thought that went through your head as you watched your neighbors wife bend over to tie her shoe. And since he's wearing fancy robes its expected that you follow his lead.
Faith is a fine idea.
But I think that mankind has messed it up so unbelievably bad that honestly the more devout somebody is, the further I want to stay away from them.
You've heard the saying "never underestimate the supidity people in large numbers"?
Now imagine one of them says he's the conduit to "the lord".
Grab a stack of newspapers and history books and start checking off the atrocities that can be traced backwards to a "belief".
As soon as it goes from "Hey I think this is how the world was made, and how I got here, and how I should live my life." to "This is what YOU should do." Then all the trouble starts.
You show me 5 Athiests and I'll show you 5 people who arent causing any trouble. 5 people who arent judging anyone. 5 people who arent teaching their kids (by the nature of their faith) exlusion and prejudice.
Edited for language by Micke on behalf of the moderating team
Posted by: lcsdds Oct 12 2009, 10:02 PM
Untill to you discover GOD on your own it makes all the sense to me why you wouldn't beleive in one.
That is the difference between you and I Dan.....you DISCOVERED God on your own terms......I had him shoved down my throat and was told to believe "or else". Different perspectives. I wonder how many of us here in this forum would feel the way we feel about guitar if we were told from the time we were born that we either learn to play guitar or risk losing the love of our family and friends. This has essentially been my experience with religion......I can only comment on my experience. I know many others have had good experiences.....not so with me......
When "people" get involved in someones "faith".
Teacher led prayer in school, pressure from parents, community, or whomever to "follow the herd", some regular dude standing at the front of the congregation telling you you're going to burn in hell because of a thought that went through your head as you watched your neighbors wife bend over to tie her shoe. And since he's wearing fancy robes its expected that you follow his lead.
Faith is a fine idea.
But I think that mankind has messed it up so unbelievably bad that honestly the more devout somebody is, the further I want to stay away from them.
You've heard the saying "never underestimate the supidity people in large numbers"?
Now imagine one of them says he's the conduit to "the lord".
Grab a stack of newspapers and history books and start checking off the atrocities that can be traced backwards to a "belief".
As soon as it goes from "Hey I think this is how the world was made, and how I got here, and how I should live my life." to "This is what YOU should do." Then all the trouble starts.
You show me 5 Athiests and I'll show you 5 people who arent causing any trouble. 5 people who arent judging anyone. 5 people who arent teaching their kids (by the nature of their faith) exlusion and prejudice.
\m/(*_*)\m/\m/
Edited quote, Micke
Posted by: Ctodd Oct 12 2009, 10:04 PM
There are atheists out there that go way over the edge and try to "preach" atheism. but yeah, I would say your average non-believer isn't trying to stir up any trouble.
but neither is your average believer.
the extremists on one side will point out all the faults in the extremists of the other side (believers vs non-believers) in an attempt to make the whole opposition look bad.
Posted by: jer Oct 12 2009, 10:21 PM
That is true.
I'm not referring to extremists though.
Those that don't accept _____ will spend an eternity of suffering in the fires of hell.
So and so is a homosexual. The bible says he should be killed.
In my opinion thats pretty exclusionary and prejudice behavior.
You hear "Religious tolerance" being talked about. Yet the core beliefs (of christianity anyway, as I understand it) revolve around being in a special group that will enjoy an eternity of bliss while everyone else burns for eternity.
I understand extremists take it to a whole other level. Crusades. Blowing stuff up. Etc....
but neither is your average believer.
the extremists on one side will point out all the faults in the extremists of the other side (believers vs non-believers) in an attempt to make the whole opposition look bad.
Posted by: tonymiro Oct 12 2009, 10:39 PM
...
Good point Jer.
It's in a nut shell what we will not accept on the forum in any form.
Generally this is a nice discussion so lets keep it that way everyone
.tony - for the moderating team
Posted by: purple hayes Oct 13 2009, 01:10 AM
This in no way surprises me because I always read your screen name as ldsdds.
Posted by: lcsdds Oct 13 2009, 02:11 AM
I REALLY wish I could change my screen name.....
Posted by: twist Oct 13 2009, 02:48 AM
Oh. This is a realy dangerous topic for each forum. It somehow is a test for the community. If it can discuss religion for four pages without getting into some serious arguments its worth to stay
My contribution to this will be short. I dont believe in god, but i have a clear image of what god could be. And i think that Religion has nothing to do with believe. Religion is a thing people constructed. And in many times its used to surpress, steer and sedate the people. In my opinion you dont need religion to believe.
Posted by: jer Oct 13 2009, 03:31 AM
thats how I feel too twist. But I couldnt have summed it up like that. Nicely done.
So what does lcsdds stand for?
I thought is was a dental reference.
My contribution to this will be short. I dont believe in god, but i have a clear image of what god could be. And i think that Religion has nothing to do with believe. Religion is a thing people constructed. And in many times its used to surpress, steer and sedate the people. In my opinion you dont need religion to believe.
Posted by: Canis Oct 13 2009, 03:54 AM
Atheist =)
There is some points in some modern Christianity that I see as flawed: The extremists pushing beliefs down other people's throats, saying "YOU'RE WRONG!!" to anyone who says diffrently. I have an uncle who's stereotype that way.. He follows all of the extreme christian views: Criticizing homosexual people, threatening with the fires from below and all of that. It's 2009, when people should be allowed to walk around in the streets accepted for whatever color, flag or preferences they have, in my opinion.
(Quick disclaimer: I do not think all religious people are the stereotype I just described. This forum is the perfect example that there's normal believers )
I believe, as so many other here do, that you have to find your own beliefs.
Great that we're able to keep this topic so civil, and I really hope I haven't offended anyone!
Posted by: lcsdds Oct 13 2009, 04:18 AM
I thought is was a dental reference.
It is a dental reference.....Purple Hayes thought it was LDSdds not LCSdds.......LCS are my intiials and DDS is a dental degree of course. LDS is an acronym for Mormons....Latter Day Saints....didn't know I was a saint did ya........
Posted by: David Wallimann Oct 13 2009, 04:23 AM
lol
Posted by: skennington Oct 13 2009, 04:30 AM
So where does Monte come from...
Lamont.. Watchit Sukka!
Posted by: lcsdds Oct 13 2009, 04:36 AM
Lamont.. Watchit Sukka! BINGO.....I can't tell you how many people who have never met me assumed I am Black.......
I'm as white as they come..... I LOVED Sanford and Son........"LaMont......you big brown dummy". Classic show.....
Posted by: browq Oct 13 2009, 10:36 AM
I also have something to say about this subject
I'm not going to call myself a atheist. Because that's just another lable people like te place on you. While i respect people choice to believe there are some things said here that really bother me
for example
if someone says "evolution can't be proven"...Wrong. It can, and it already has been proven. If you take some time to read articles about it and really open your mind then you realize that this is not just "some theorie". I really can't stand it when people approach it like that. For example: "in every living thing on this planet there is a universal DNA pattern, wheter it be a fly or pig or man. There a so many people who do not really understand what evolution means. There are some really good site's where you can find a lot of information. We did NOT evolve from apes. Evolution means whe share the same ancestor. One branch of that ancestor evolved into apes such as gorilla's, another branch evolved to the homo sapiens most primitive ancestor and modern men is the result of that continuous process of evolution. I also think that everything in this universe just happens by chance. There is no moral of right and wrong. For example, If a comet struc jupiter, is that right or wrong? If a star dies out, but from the ashes is born another star...is that good or bad? Things just happens. There is no right and wrong
The big bang is not a theory. It is sientific fact. The only thing whe don't know is what happened before the big bang? we probably won't be able to solve that, because if you look past the moment of creation, every question you ask just becomes another question. It becomes a singularity. And maybe god created the big bang. Who knows
That's why i don't have any problems with people who choose faith. But please, Don't put "creationism" on the same level as "evolution". Because creationism has proven sientific facts that cannot be ignored. Ofcourse there's nothing wrong with not believing it, that's another story. While creationism is nothing more than just saying "God snapped his fingers and created the entire universe" cause that is what it comes down to. My advice, Just read a lot on everything. Take the time, and then make a decision. Wheter that is believing in god or something else. It doesn't matter. Everyone has the fundemental right to believe whatever he or she wants
Posted by: Keilnoth Oct 13 2009, 11:48 AM
That's clever thoughts browq.
Believer or not, I really recommend everybody to read this book :
http://www.amazon.com/Levangile-Pilate-French-Eric-Emmanuel-Schmitt/dp/2253116041/ref=cm_lmf_tit_7_rsrsrs0
It gives a new vision on who is Jesus and what happened in those ancient times. It's not a full historical story and probably more a fiction but still, it's good and interesting to open some new ideas and perhaps to forge their own opinion about the very first not modified, translated message of Jesus.
Unfortunately, I cannot find a translation in English.
Posted by: jstcrsn Oct 13 2009, 12:10 PM
don,t get me started, but since you did. if you powered every electric plant on earth for 7 million years you could run the sun for 1 second ,if you think about the fact that the sun is a small star and there are 10billion times 10 billion stars estimated in the universe and the big bang happened from nothing where did that much energy come from. the first law of thermal dynamics is you can,t get something from nothing. a scientific law is something that is fact such as 2 pus 2 is 4 that law will not change. that is why many scientists have a problem with the big bang . p.s. it is called a theory because they can,t prove any of it
Posted by: Matt23 Oct 13 2009, 12:21 PM
I'm not going to call myself a atheist. Because that's just another lable people like te place on you. While i respect people choice to believe there are some things said here that really bother me
for example
if someone says "evolution can't be proven"...Wrong. It can, and it already has been proven. If you take some time to read articles about it and really open your mind then you realize that this is not just "some theorie". I really can't stand it when people approach it like that. For example: "in every living thing on this planet there is a universal DNA pattern, wheter it be a fly or pig or man. There a so many people who do not really understand what evolution means. There are some really good site's where you can find a lot of information. We did NOT evolve from apes. Evolution means whe share the same ancestor. One branch of that ancestor evolved into apes such as gorilla's, another branch evolved to the homo sapiens most primitive ancestor and modern men is the result of that continuous process of evolution. I also think that everything in this universe just happens by chance. There is no moral of right and wrong. For example, If a comet struc jupiter, is that right or wrong? If a star dies out, but from the ashes is born another star...is that good or bad? Things just happens. There is no right and wrong
The big bang is not a theory. It is sientific fact. The only thing whe don't know is what happened before the big bang? we probably won't be able to solve that, because if you look past the moment of creation, every question you ask just becomes another question. It becomes a singularity. And maybe god created the big bang. Who knows
That's why i don't have any problems with people who choose faith. But please, Don't put "creationism" on the same level as "evolution". Because creationism has proven sientific facts that cannot be ignored. Ofcourse there's nothing wrong with not believing it, that's another story. While creationism is nothing more than just saying "God snapped his fingers and created the entire universe" cause that is what it comes down to. My advice, Just read a lot on everything. Take the time, and then make a decision. Wheter that is believing in god or something else. It doesn't matter. Everyone has the fundemental right to believe whatever he or she wants
I think that evolution and the big bang, and all these scientifically proven theories are true. I don't see how they are proof though that God doesn't exist.
Posted by: Rated Htr Oct 13 2009, 01:43 PM
Untill to you discover GOD on your own it makes all the sense to me why you wouldn't beleive in one.
How do you know that was you discovered is GOD if I may ask? I know it sounds stupid but for me I think I discovered the true reality, when I was mega young I was a devoted christian, prayed before eating and everything and now, I'm an atheist, so to me, I think I've discovered God on my own, the way he doesn't exist to me.
Posted by: browq Oct 13 2009, 01:50 PM
to matt23
I never Said that because i think those theory's are facts, that god doesn't exicst. Maybe he does, Maybe he doesn't. I merely wanted to say that people shouldn't treat them as just another theory
to jstcrsn
I think that most of the scientist in the world agree that the big bang did happen. And i'm not saying the universe was created out of nothing. The big bang theory implies that the universe at one point was the size of an attom. Containing the laws that hold our universe together. at some point that attom started to expand and expand untill it reached the size it is today. You can find proof of the big bang by turning on you radio or tv. The static you see and hear When the tv is on static or the radio is not tuned to a channel is signal from the big bang at them moment the universe started to expand verry rapidly. Because of this speed, it is referred to as a bang. so no, the big bang is not a theory. Almost every scientist in the world agree's that the universe was once the size of an attom. Fact
Posted by: jer Oct 13 2009, 01:55 PM
HUH?
Posted by: browq Oct 13 2009, 02:02 PM
Static on you tv set. Or static on the radio. That alone is proof the big bang did happen
Posted by: jer Oct 13 2009, 02:09 PM
No, I read it... I just...
Well....
Hey that makes as much sense as all of the other mythology out there.
Apollo, Thor, Maya, Ra, Jesus, Obi-Wan, etc...
Posted by: browq Oct 13 2009, 02:13 PM
it's not a fairy tale. look it up on the internet. This was also mentioned in the History channel documentary called "the universe". This is a high quality scientific program. And they don't mention lies in a serie like that. Look it up. Or google it. You will find enough good recources
Posted by: Matt23 Oct 13 2009, 02:13 PM
I never Said that because i think those theory's are facts, that god doesn't exicst. Maybe he does, Maybe he doesn't. I merely wanted to say that people shouldn't treat them as just another theory
Oh, ok, I misunderstood.
Posted by: browq Oct 13 2009, 02:18 PM
No problem ^^. I should have specified. I can understand your comment
Posted by: jer Oct 13 2009, 02:18 PM
I did look it up...
Static in tv signals is remnants of the big bang... So if I go up and wiggle the antenna, or put some aluminum foil on it it goes away.
So does that mean that if someone had put aluminum foil around that 1 atom then none of this would have never happened?
Posted by: jstcrsn Oct 13 2009, 02:18 PM
to matt23
I never Said that because i think those theory's are facts, that god doesn't exicst. Maybe he does, Maybe he doesn't. I merely wanted to say that people shouldn't treat them as just another theory
to jstcrsn
I think that most of the scientist in the world agree that the big bang did happen. And i'm not saying the universe was created out of nothing. The big bang theory implies that the universe at one point was the size of an attom. Containing the laws that hold our universe together. at some point that attom started to expand and expand untill it reached the size it is today. You can find proof of the big bang by turning on you radio or tv. The static you see and hear When the tv is on static or the radio is not tuned to a channel is signal from the big bang at them moment the universe started to expand verry rapidly. Because of this speed, it is referred to as a bang. so no, the big bang is not a theory. Almost every scientist in the world agree's that the universe was once the size of an attom. Fact
Posted by: Rated Htr Oct 13 2009, 02:24 PM
Static in tv signals is remnants of the big bang... So if I go up and wiggle the antenna, or put some aluminum foil on it it goes away.
So does that mean that if someone had put aluminum foil around that 1 atom then none of this would have never happened?
Don't forget that the Big Bang is also a theory for the world's creation, it's not a fact and not completly accept but, following the logic, it seems that way
Posted by: browq Oct 13 2009, 02:32 PM
to jstcrsn
I agree with that you are saying. But for the facts available at this moment in time, It is most likely to assume the universe was created as explained by the big bang theory. Ofcourse if something new is discovered it could change the outcome. For example...a lot of scientist a while ago believed in the stady state universe theory. Implying that the universe had always been there and will always be there. Facts change all the time. I'n my eyes, the big bang theory the way it is now is fact. But that doesn't mean that when new facts come to light that i won't change my mind. i will. But for me, the big bang at this moment is the most likely explenation
to jer
perhaps so
to rated htr
Ofcourse such complex questions can never be awnsered with a 100% certainty. But as you said, It's is the most logical explenation
Posted by: Keilnoth Oct 13 2009, 02:54 PM
Wait... Obi Wan doesn't exist ?!!?!?!?
What about Chuck Norris ?!!
"The Big Bang was actually Chuck Norris roundhouse kicking God in the face."
Proof is here : http://www.cafepress.com/mediatees/1478535
Nobody can tell the Internet is wrong !
That prove this :
1. Chuck Norris exists because he has feet
2. God has a face so he exists
3. The Big Bang exists and it probably sounds like a big slap
Posted by: Sensible Jones Oct 13 2009, 03:09 PM
What about Chuck Norris ?!!
"The Big Bang was actually Chuck Norris roundhouse kicking God in the face."
Proof is here : http://www.cafepress.com/mediatees/1478535
Nobody can tell the Internet is wrong !
That prove this :
1. Chuck Norris exists because he has feet
2. God has a face so he exists
3. The Big Bang exists and it probably sounds like a big slap
Posted by: skennington Oct 13 2009, 03:09 PM
Please guys, let's try to remain respectful of each others beliefs. Discussion is borderline at the moment.
/skennington on behalf of the moderating team
Posted by: jstcrsn Oct 13 2009, 03:30 PM
to jstcrsn
I agree with that you are saying. But for the facts available at this moment in time, It is most likely to assume the universe was created as explained by the big bang theory. Ofcourse if something new is discovered it could change the outcome. For example...a lot of scientist a while ago believed in the stady state universe theory. Implying that the universe had always been there and will always be there. Facts change all the time. I'n my eyes, the big bang theory the way it is now is fact. But that doesn't mean that when new facts come to light that i won't change my mind. i will. But for me, the big bang at this moment is the most likely explenation
to jer
perhaps so
to rated htr
Ofcourse such complex questions can never be awnsered with a 100% certainty. But as you said, It's is the most logical explenation
Posted by: jer Oct 13 2009, 03:38 PM
Its all speculation.
But the speculation must remain implied?
Its been mentioned a few times how civil this has remained. And how its a testament to the community here being "grown up enough" to have the discussion.
Yet it feels like the moderators want to shut it down.
If we ALL cant speak freely then go ahead. Whats the point?
Its ok to say that "I dont believe in a God" but its "borderline disrespectful" to say "I think its all mythology and the proposed existence of the Christian god is no more valid than that of Zeus, Ra, Apollo, etc?"
I think that we need to remain observant to both sides. Reading peoples posts claiming there is a god isnt sending the athiests flying off the handle. And no one is stepping in reminding the "believers" that they may be getting too close to disrespecting those of us that dont believe.
Either keep it an open forum to everyone's beliefs or yeah, shut it down.
Its not an open discussion if when someone throws up debate from the "non-believer" side they have to tiptoe...
Posted by: skennington Oct 13 2009, 03:47 PM
But the speculation must remain implied?
Its been mentioned a few times how civil this has remained. And how its a testament to the community here being "grown up enough" to have the discussion.
Yet it feels like the moderators want to shut it down.
If we ALL cant speak freely then go ahead. Whats the point?
Its ok to say that "I dont believe in a God" but its "borderline disrespectful" to say "I think its all mythology and the proposed existence of the Christian god is no more valid than that of Zeus, Ra, Apollo, etc?"
I think that we need to remain observant to both sides. Reading peoples posts claiming there is a god isnt sending the athiests flying off the handle. And no one is stepping in reminding the "believers" that they may be getting too close to disrespecting those of us that dont believe.
Either keep it an open forum to everyone's beliefs or yeah, shut it down.
Its not an open discussion if when someone throws up debate from the "non-believer" side they have to tiptoe...
Sounds to me like you are the one that is taking offense. My comment certainly did not point to either side and was merely a reminder. What Borderline Disrespectful IS to some, may not be to you.. Try to keep that in mind whilst reading and posting.
Posted by: Red Tie Oct 13 2009, 03:57 PM
I personally think that it is ridiculous to believe in a god, soley because of the fact you can never know. I'm not saying there isn't a god because i can't prove it, but if something is impossible to prove it is kind of meaningless to go on about and believe in. It doesn't serve any purpose except for spiritual and personal stimulation, it's like fooling one self. Anyway, believe all you want - i'm an absurdist btw, that would be the most fitting. Never ending argument.
Posted by: jer Oct 13 2009, 03:57 PM
The only thing I take offense to is an "open discussion" that really isnt open.
To a non believer, the fictional chuck norris, obi-wan, & (insert deity name) are all in the same category. I don't see how that is any more borderline disrespectful than somebody claiming that I was created in the image of THEIR god.
When I see moderation peeking around the corner after one of those points, but not the other I wonder how open this discussion really is. Can you see my point? Where are the warnings for those saying that their god created everything. To me that isnt disrespectful, its a byproduct of the conversations topic. It cant not happen.
I've seen nothing even remotely disrespectful being written by anyone.
Nobody is putting anyone down for their beliefs. No name calling. No "you're an idiot for thinking that", etc...
Anyway. To me, my daughter summed it up perfectly with 1 sentence. I grabbed this from her blog. She said this when she was 4. Her mom wrote it.
Jillian thought about this for some time. Just pondering. And responded:
“I believe in Mermaids.”
Posted by: opeth.db Oct 13 2009, 04:06 PM
To a non believer, the fictional chuck norris, obi-wan, & (insert deity name) are all in the same category. I don't see how that is any more borderline disrespectful than somebody claiming that I was created in the image of THEIR god.
When I see moderation peeking around the corner after one of those points, but not the other I wonder how open this discussion really is. Can you see my point? Where are the warnings for those saying that their god created everything. To me that isnt disrespectful, its a byproduct of the conversations topic. It cant not happen.
I've seen nothing even remotely disrespectful being written by anyone.
Nobody is putting anyone down for their beliefs. No name calling. No "you're an idiot for thinking that", etc...
I agree with Jer. Go ahead and ban my account now. We all now what happens here when you speak your mind.
I went ahead and nominated this the "Dumbest Thread Ever" on a guitar instructional website.
Posted by: skennington Oct 13 2009, 04:08 PM
You also are only seeing the surface and again, this is your opinion of what's being said. You don't see what goes on behind the scenes and who may or may not have been offended. What you call "moderation peeking" is a necessity.
Posted by: tonymiro Oct 13 2009, 04:19 PM
When I see moderation peeking around the corner after one of those points, but not the other I wonder how open this discussion really is. Can you see my point? Where are the warnings for those saying that their god created everything. To me that isnt disrespectful, its a byproduct of the conversations topic. It cant not happen.
...
You're presuming a simple cause-effect relationship here that, as Steve has already stated, is not the case.
Posted by: Shadow21 Oct 13 2009, 04:30 PM
I believe in a natural force that makes everything flow in the right order, but not in a god that creates and destroys, nor a god that loves you if you idolaze him and sends you to hell if you don't do what he wants, for me, that's just a way that medieval kings and priests used to make people scared for their own profit.
But I respect people that believe in God, human kind needs to believe in something, it has allways been like that, and it will allways be.
Posted by: jer Oct 13 2009, 04:34 PM
I'm not presuming anything.
Look at the posts.
The only moderating that is being done is on the heels of a comment from a non-believer. True? Yes true.
Where is the "Hey lets watch it" when someone posts something that may offend a non-believer? Your position is noted.
Its impossible to moderate this subject without slanting it one way or another. And is that not what is happening?
Why dont you guys respect the views of those who want to discuss this topic like adults and stay out of it?
Posted by: TheOldOnes Oct 13 2009, 04:49 PM
As an evolutionary ecologist, it is rather difficult to understand why people believe in god. Not that science can proof that god does not exist - rather, evolution provides rational and simple explanations for everything we observe so there is little need to invoke any supernatural explanations.
There are number of posters that talk about themselves as active aetheists and some not understanding what the really means. Essentially it refers to aetheists whom actively address misconceptions or distortions of evidence (both in support and against). For example, the conclusion of intelligent designers to conclude there is a good (or an intelligent designer) because we don't understand the biology of a few obscure biological systems is not evidence either way. Interestingly, the 2 biological systems used to promote intelligent design (the protist flagella and calcium cascade syetem) once promoted by intelligent designers were both solved almost immediately when biologists actually looked at the systems.
Posted by: tonymiro Oct 13 2009, 04:53 PM
Jer you are presuming a lot, not least you presume that a simple temporal connection exists between a post and a moderator's comment. As Steve and I have already said that is not the case here.
I would also remind you that it has been stated before several times by Micke that undermining a moderator on the forum whilst they are performing their duties is not acceptable behaviour. If you have an issue with how we moderate then you should raise it via pm.
tony- on behalf of the moderating team
Posted by: Fsgdjv Oct 13 2009, 04:56 PM
Actually, "The Universe" is a popular science show. Like all popular science it's full of lies and missunderstandings, so I'm afraid you're wrong there, it's FAR from a good scource. Nevertheless, I read something about it during physics in school a few years back and it is a popular theory so I suppose it's the fact that I accept as true for the moment.
And on topic, I'm agnostic.
Posted by: Rated Htr Oct 13 2009, 04:59 PM
I have to agree with Jer until a certain point since I don't see atheists getting ofended by others believing in God so why should believers be offended by atheists? I respect all religious people, even have many friends who are desperately trying to convert me to that again but my real opinion is that it's ridiculous. When I used to see Carlos' Lessons and in the end he would say and God bless you, I would think it was ridiculous but I respect him as a person. For me it's like science, there are people with theories that you think: This guy is nuts! He doesn't know what is saying. Although you're not gonna hear the other scientists saying: can you believe this? He should be locked up since he's mad.
Personally, I think believing in God is ridiculous, and I don't say that people who do are ridiculous, it's just their thinking against mine, no one will no for sure who's right since religion can't proove it and science can't prove it.
In a way, it's just a way of being, some people need that belief not to question other stuff, some don't. Everyone has their reasons.
Posted by: Shadow21 Oct 13 2009, 05:00 PM
I have seen many threads like this in many other forums, and it allways ends the same... Some one just has to spoil it by arguing... 
Posted by: Matt23 Oct 13 2009, 05:19 PM
I hope this isn't "undermining a moderator", but what are the posts you think are borderline?
So far all I've seen is civil discussion, but maybe I'm missing something.
Posted by: Rated Htr Oct 13 2009, 05:30 PM
So far all I've seen is civil discussion, but maybe I'm missing something.
Unless someone sent a PM to a moderator saying they were offended, I would say the same...Not wanting to "undermining the moderators" aswell
Posted by: johnvg Oct 13 2009, 05:31 PM
I grew up in a methodist family and became an atheist when I was about 15.
Posted by: Braer Oct 13 2009, 05:32 PM
But that's why these things are called miracles, right?
Anyways, I'm not trying to convince anyone of my own beliefs..
Just wanted to point out that you are absolutely right, those things are impossible. But for believers, what is impossible to man is possible to God, which makes him God.
Faith is definitely not something that anyone can force on anyone. If anyone is a believer, he will have to agree that it was because of a personal encounter of God that he is what he is today...
That's why all debates between believers and non believers often turn into a big mess.
My beliefs in a God who loved us so much that he would make himself man to die for my sins is completely foolishness to men (including me).. That's where faith comes in I guess...
Im an atheist.
It would be really cool tho if one man with one fish could feed 100 people or wathever it was. That is one of the reasons im not a biliver, those "miracels".. None of them have been proven YET, i dont think they ever will be.
A american guy (i dont remember his name), promised 3 million dollars to annyone that did a miracle or magic trick that he couldent do. Several years later, he still got his money.
I hope you understood what i ment, my english suck
Posted by: jstcrsn Oct 13 2009, 05:40 PM
I believe in a natural force that makes everything flow in the right order, but not in a god that creates and destroys, nor a god that loves you if you idolaze him and sends you to hell if you don't do what he wants, for me, that's just a way that medieval kings and priests used to make people scared for their own profit.
But I respect people that believe in God, human kind needs to believe in something, it has allways been like that, and it will allways be.
Posted by: skennington Oct 13 2009, 05:42 PM
As I said, while on the surface, it may all look clean and the topic is going well, but in reality, there are others who have been offended just by reading.
It IS our job as moderators to keep the content of the site in order of the wishes of management. Until those wishes change, we will continue to do so.
We are not here to undermine anyone's statements or opinions and certainly not here to take sides.
Posted by: Marek Rojewski Oct 13 2009, 05:51 PM
I understand Skenny, but we most probably both know that sometimes some people can be offended by almost anything.
Posted by: Rated Htr Oct 13 2009, 05:56 PM
I understand Steve, if I did offend anyone, my appologies...
Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Oct 13 2009, 06:26 PM
I think there have been good posts in this thread. I know that many people have thoughts and questions about the topic of religion - and having a respectful thread about it at GMC is a good idea!
However I am not that impressed by the behavior of some people in here. Anyone posting in a thread such as this one should do it in a careful manner - otherwise you run a big risk of offending people.
I know that this is obvious to 99,9% of all GMC:ers - that's why I was surprised to see the nature of some posts in here.
Great post!
It is far better to apologize to be safe rather than risking to offend/hurt people.
Posted by: skennington Oct 13 2009, 06:45 PM
This is true Marek. We hope that you guys trust us as to where to draw that line and can understand when we do so.
Posted by: opeth.db Oct 13 2009, 07:02 PM
Nope. I'll do my own thinking thank you very much.
The crap pulled here today is exactly what I expect parents do. Speak up and you get punished.
Ill go find somewhere else where actual adults hangout and actually have open conversations.
Keep catering the site to the 11 year olds where that kind of moderating is needed.
Now you can ban me too like you just did to Jer who I still find no fault into what he was saying.
I guess that makes me just as guilty.
And Rated Htr, Dont ever apologize for your beliefs.
Posted by: Muris Varajic Oct 13 2009, 07:02 PM
I also appreciate discussion in this thread but yeah, we shouldn't react like some of us did,
topic is too personal after all.
Here's how it goes/went with me.
I was raised in some mixture of muslim and communist ideologies,
per example my dad was a member of communist party
while his mom (my grandmother) was going to mosque daily,
they NEVER had any issues with that which probably has something to do
with descent behavior, understanding etc.
I do know few prayers in arabic since that's how it's written in Kuran
but also it always somehow felt wrong to pray in a language I know nothing about.
And my natural thinking was : is there a point of praying on loud IF we think bad?
So I came to the spot when I do pray just for the sake of tradition, in a way,
I heavily believe that God (or anything else you believe its out there)
can read our souls like we read comics, piece of cake.
And finally, I try to avoid all groupings (religious) as much as I can,
during our history those groups made or caused too much evil
and I just can't stand being part of any.
I do believe in GOOD tho since I can do it daily,
name, color of the skin etc means nothing to me,
humans are tricky beings and we need to provide good
if we expect to receive good, that's what I believe in.
Posted by: skennington Oct 13 2009, 07:08 PM
You do that..
Obviously GMC is not the place for you anyway with that kind of thinking. There are young people here and GMC will respect that.
Posted by: Skalde Oct 13 2009, 07:09 PM
He didn't
There is nothing wrong with apologizing when you unintentionally hurt someones feelings
Posted by: grathan Oct 13 2009, 07:10 PM
I like how the world stops and communities come together on Sunday mornings. Unfortunately it's only the meek that gather.
PSA: Sorry if you've been offended by reading this post.
Posted by: MickeM Oct 13 2009, 07:16 PM
Now you can ban me too like you just did to Jer who I still find no fault into what he was saying.
I guess that makes me just as guilty.
We do have young people here and we mind them and we don't care to support bad attitude towards our fellow beings when a discussion can be held without for example calling someones belifs ridiciolus. Which is just one example.
If you care to put people down and use bad language there are plenty of other forums where that's allowed.
About Jer, you think you know what he was saying but you only know what you have seen in the forum. I guess he's ashamed to confess the rest to you.
If you care to get banned that will happen if you publicly keep questioning how we moderate the forum. Just go ahead!
Posted by: Marek Rojewski Oct 13 2009, 07:28 PM
Instead of arguing in such manner on this topic, maybe open a new topic concerning the moderation of the forum, and let members discuss about what they like and what they would like to be changed. Maybe I am wrong, but I think that the way the forum is moderated should be as similar to what members would like as possible. After all members are the most important part of any community.
Posted by: JVM Oct 13 2009, 07:34 PM
PSA: Sorry if you've been offended by reading this post.
About this, two thoughts:
1) Wasn't the original sabbath day saturday? I'm fairly sure I read somewhere that the day was changed by a roman emperor (perhaps constantine) for some reason or other (control). I know it probably doesn't matter much as to which day of all of them that people gather, it's "the thought that counts" but it seems very ambiguous. If these 'little details' are not important, why do they exist? This is one of the things that bothers me about religion, there is much inconsistency and contradiction, even in basic tenants.
2) Certainly not all over the world, but there are some ridiculous laws still about in the US and probably in other predominantly christian nations where there are restrictions on many things on sunday. Off the top of my head, the liquor store is closed on sunday here in NC. Seperation of church and state should be universal in a country as tolerant as the United States. Bugs me just a bit.
Not out to offend anyone
Posted by: MickeM Oct 13 2009, 07:37 PM
We have a clear plan of how moderating is done and the full contents can be found in the posting guidelines.
And to add we don't have any intention to call a vote for what should be changed and how it should be changed. Members vary and so does their sum of opinions, so we do have an ever changing mass of opinions on how the forum should be run.
All in all we're doing out best to keep this a friendly place for men and women from differet countires, different religions and different ages where the least common denomiator are children.
And we're pleased to see that almost all members care to follow the guidelines for use of language, after all it's easy for us adults and young adults in their late teens to adjust to withhold a civil language, for the kids.
Posted by: browq Oct 13 2009, 07:40 PM
Actually, "The Universe" is a popular science show. Like all popular science it's full of lies and missunderstandings, so I'm afraid you're wrong there, it's FAR from a good scource. Nevertheless, I read something about it during physics in school a few years back and it is a popular theory so I suppose it's the fact that I accept as true for the moment.
And on topic, I'm agnostic.
Well i definitely disagree with you here. Oke, They try to explain complicated phisics stuff to the the "common" people such as myself. So, somethimes thing can get misinterpreted. But i really believe that 90 to 95 % of all things mentioned there are true. Because of the simple fact that all the people in that show are certified scientist in there own field of expertise. Do you really think they would ruin there own reputation by spreading lies? I don't think so. Ofcourse "the universe" should not be the only source where you should draw you conclusions from. I agree. But saying stuff like "there telling lies" you gotta have something to back up such a bold statement. Give me 2 examples or subject or statements they make that aren't true. I just completely disagree with you here
Posted by: Matt23 Oct 13 2009, 07:47 PM
Just so I understand the situation, not wanting to undermine or offend anyone, have there been inappropriate posts that have been deleted by the moderation team?
Posted by: Rated Htr Oct 13 2009, 07:50 PM
I didn't. There's a difference between ofending people and thinking they are wrong.
I wrote a huge post but the connection fell and I don't feel like writing it again so I'm just gonna say, close the topic, instead of making more troubles. People, don't you forget why you're here, to play guitar, to love music not to argue about a theme such as God and stuff.
One one hand, I still feel like people shouldn't get offended if others have other theories.
One the other hand, I don't believe people should get banned for exposing their anti-beliefs.
So, to be fair, close the topic.
Posted by: lcsdds Oct 13 2009, 08:05 PM
To be honest I really don't see why Jer got banned. We all know that this site is HEAVILY moderated. With that in thought in mind I am wondering why a topic such as this would even be allowed to stay open and was not immediately shut down. Silly to ban a good contributor to this site and good person in general (Jer) just for stating his beliefs.........
Posted by: skennington Oct 13 2009, 08:14 PM
Monte, Jer was not banned for comments he made publicly, and you right, thread probably should be closed which I will do now.
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