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Posted by: Davidian Aug 15 2007, 03:35 AM

How do you put 'em on your guitar? (This 'expression might not be right, but I don't know how to say it in English)

Is it like: amp -----cable------- pedal -----cable-------- guitar?
Or do you have to put them on your guitar some other way?



And hi everybody!
I'm new to GMC, and it rules!
Hope it will learn me a lot of new stuff!

Davidian.

Posted by: Pavel Aug 15 2007, 03:55 AM

I connect them like this:

Guitar->wah->distortion->delay->amp

Posted by: Davidian Aug 15 2007, 05:56 AM

Thanks, Pavel!
And is the rank of the pedals important?
Can you for example also put them like this:
Guitar --- Dist. ---- Delay ---- Wah ---- Amp ?

Posted by: Pavel Aug 15 2007, 06:38 AM

It depends on a pedal manufacturer and the effect the pedal does! When i bought the Boss PW-10 Wah i connected in last in a row - so it was wah->amp and it did a horrible sound and i thought my pedal was broken. But one i connected it First in a row it worked great! So you have to experiment with it!

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Aug 15 2007, 06:46 AM

In particular, Wah before and after dostortion give a very different sound - more harmonics in a distorted sound for the Wah pedal to work on. SOmetimes that is ok, sometimes it isn't depends on the effect you want and the pedals themselves, so Take Pavels advice and try it out all ways and settle on what you like best.

Posted by: ZakkWylde Aug 15 2007, 06:49 AM

Wah always belongs before an overdrive/distortion because the wah drives the sound a bit on it's own. Otherway round you'll get the problem Pavel faced: Muddy Sound

Posted by: Davidian Aug 15 2007, 07:04 AM

And what if I want to use a wah with the built-in distortion of my amp?
Will that give a muddy sound?

And thanks for all the fast replies!

Posted by: Hemlok Aug 15 2007, 07:33 AM

what cable to you connect the pedals with? it is just a short 1/4" amp leads right?

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Aug 15 2007, 07:34 AM

Right.

Posted by: Hemlok Aug 15 2007, 07:38 AM

well in that case, know any online places to get em? because i am a good 18 hours drive from the nearest music store

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Aug 15 2007, 07:45 AM

LOL. stuck in the outback mate? They are usually called patch cables, and about a foot long. Of course you need 2 long cables, one from guitar to first effect, and one from the last effect to the amp, all in between can be patch cables.

Not living in the Antipodies I don;t know any good stores but doa search for patch cables and see what you can pull up.

Posted by: Nick325 Aug 15 2007, 07:49 AM

i found http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/DiMarzio-Pedal-Coupler-Cable?sku=332101 and http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Musicians-Gear-Metal-Effect-Pedal-Coupler-Straight?sku=330079

Posted by: tonymiro Aug 15 2007, 09:19 AM

If you don't have an effects loop then the common way is, as most have already said:

guitar>wah>compressor>distortion>phaser/flanger (or other time delay type effects)>amp input

and with a loop as above plus:
into the loop eq>chorus>delay>reverb.

Generally its worth experimenting a bit as you can reverse the compressor and distortion and/or compressor and wah and sometimes get a better tone - really depends a great deal on the pedals. But it's nearly always better to put any time based effect AFTER a distortion.

One thing - use good quality patch cables - cheap ones can spoil your tone .

Cheers,
Tony

Posted by: muris Aug 15 2007, 10:28 AM

Yeah,Tony is right about cables,you're not rich enough to buy cheap stuff...
And if you use drive from an amp then
you still have wah before drive, which is the most common option after all

Posted by: shredmandan Aug 15 2007, 11:03 AM

You will find that you will get a different sound every time you change the order.Some sound worse than other's i would look online to get the best set-up if your using stomp boxes.

Posted by: Hemlok Aug 15 2007, 05:50 PM

Thanks! I didn't know what they were called.




Cheers for the links Nick!

- Hemlok

Posted by: MickeM Aug 16 2007, 12:54 AM

And the ones from Nick's two links I prefer is the ones shaped like an "L" in both ends. Real space savers those and they still allow you to freely set the distance between the pedals if you need em further apart (in oppose to the plug-plug)

Posted by: Davidian Aug 16 2007, 04:32 AM

Thanks to everybody for the answers! I get it now!
Hemloks question came in handy too ^^

But I still have another thing that I'm kind of bothered with...
And that is: what's the difference between Overdrive and Distortion?

Thanks!

Posted by: Pavel Aug 16 2007, 05:48 AM

Distortion has much more gain than Overdrive and is used for heavier stuff. Overdrive can even sound like it's some hard clean sound if put to a low gain so basically Overdrive is VERY VERY low distortion.



These patch cables are impossible to find in Croatia so i had to make my own for my pedals.

Posted by: MickeM Aug 16 2007, 05:58 AM

Never payed it much though but I'd say that an overdrive increase a signal while the distortion alters the signal.

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Aug 16 2007, 06:11 AM

My understanding is that overdrive is meant to emulate the sound of a tube amp being driven into (gentle) distortion, whereas distortion (fuzz) is much more brutal.

Posted by: muris Aug 16 2007, 06:12 AM

Yeah,MikeM pointed it right
Or to make it more closer for Davidian,
overdrive is smaller and distortion is bigger alter of the signal(sound)..

Posted by: Pavel Aug 16 2007, 06:13 AM

There is also a difference between Distortion and Fuzz. Distortion can be heavy, crunchy and crisp at the same time. While FUZZ is generally a NOISE pedal

Posted by: muris Aug 16 2007, 06:21 AM

Tell that to Eric Johnson

Posted by: Pavel Aug 16 2007, 06:24 AM

I will - next time i meet him!

Posted by: muris Aug 16 2007, 06:33 AM

Posted by: MickeM Aug 16 2007, 06:37 AM

I think you have a point on when using an OD with a solid state amp, never tried it my self but I assume it would sound like that. With an OD into a tube amp if you only use the level (amount of overdrive) you will drive the tubes harder and manage to get crunch from an otherwise perfectly clean channel. And that's sweet!!! If you also have an option to add gain with your OD pedal that's exactly what happens... gain.

Modern metal heads even put an OD in front of heavily distorted Hi-gain tube amps to get some seriously mean grit. ...hmmm... I realize I never tried that, maybe I need a noice surpressor first

Posted by: muris Aug 16 2007, 06:41 AM

Needed for sure...Rocktron Hush or som.

Posted by: MickeM Aug 16 2007, 06:44 AM

Aha... I didn't hear of it. It's good I assume?

I was thinking of a Boss NS from which I can power 8 pedals (or how many there were, around 8 something)

Posted by: muris Aug 16 2007, 06:48 AM

Yeah Hush is great but it's rack unit,haven't seen it in pedal edition...

Posted by: ZakkWylde Aug 16 2007, 07:00 AM

@MickeM you don't need a noise surpressor, lead guitarrists use overdrives to boost and improve their lead-sound and it also helps with artificial harmonics. For example: Matt from Bullet for my vallentine uses a ibanez tubescreamer infront of his mesa boogie to boost his leadsound or Zakk Wylde uses a boss overdrive to gain up his jcm 800's

Posted by: muris Aug 16 2007, 07:05 AM

Guess we're not able to see what is beyond the scene

Posted by: tonymiro Aug 16 2007, 08:15 AM

The whole thing isn't helped as some manufacturers mean od when they say distortion and so on .

Generally I'd agree with Zakk's recommendation for a noise supressor, or alternatively may be a really good compressor or eq before the gain stage. (although you are doing something rather different). Rocktron hush as I remember were industry standard for suppression - good unit if you can get one (maybe evilbay?).

Cheers,
Tony

Posted by: blindwillie Aug 16 2007, 08:14 PM

I was going to ask if a noise supressor was the same thing as a compressor, but I guess this means it's not the same thing? But a compressor could achive the same thing, but different?

Posted by: muris Aug 16 2007, 09:00 PM

Hmm...no.
Compressor helps to,as the name says,compress your sound within two lines of dB,upper and lower.
That means you're not leaving much space for your sound to "breaths" freely.
On the other side,noise suppressor silences all unwanted noises,buzzes etc..

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Aug 16 2007, 09:17 PM

Actually, a compressor can relly noise up your signal, so it is really a noise amplifier! Reason is. if you have a very l;ow threshold with high gain, as soon as you stop playing, the compressor ratchets up the gain and amplifies any stray hums, buzzes, vibrations, unintentional string noise. Compressors are great for helping with sustain, but at a price (nothing is ever free !)

Posted by: shredmandan Aug 16 2007, 09:20 PM

Very true
A compressor for me does more hurt than good.They are nice but it seems the more effects you plan to use them with the more you loose in overall tone

Posted by: Travelin' Man Aug 16 2007, 09:35 PM

If one were to buy a Line6, would one still need to add all those stomp boxes, besides a wah (if preferred)?

Posted by: muris Aug 16 2007, 09:42 PM

Depends of what you're gonna buy and what is it that you want from your sound.
Per example,I use Rocktron Prophesy plus Digitech Whammy 2,Boss TU-2,Boss Comp and Morley BH 2,
so 4 pedals more(not counting Rocktron Hex expression pedal)..

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Aug 16 2007, 09:47 PM

Line 6 build everything from single effects, to multi effects to amps with built in effects, so the question would be which Line 6 are you asking about

Posted by: Travelin' Man Aug 16 2007, 09:58 PM

Thnx guys for the quick response..Muris, I love your music man, I wish I could hear you live one night, but I dont think I will EVER get over to your home town...shame.

A.C. I was thinking of just getting this one, since Im only playing in the house for now.

http://www.guitarcenter.com/shop/product/Line-6-Spider-III-15-Modeling-Combo-Amplifier?full_sku=103944831

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Aug 16 2007, 10:49 PM

Cool great place to start for all in one tone

Posted by: tonymiro Aug 16 2007, 10:53 PM

Hi all,

Well as with any effect it's often a case of getting to know it. In praise of a good compressor - I can get near infinite sustain without having to distort my original signal, an even picking attack, smoother, rounder, richer tone. Sloppy guitar technique along with poor setup of the pedal will produce exactly what Andrew says. IMO though that's more to do with knowing how to use the pedal and having good technique - particularly muting.

Cheap compressors can certainly add (a lot of) noise to the signal: usually exacerbated because its first in line and so the output is then sent through od's, wahs, fuzzes and so on. However a good compressor, whilst sometimes not entirely noise free will not add a lot of noise - and certainly in my experience is no worse then most other pedals in this respect. I have mine turned on pretty much all the time and it doesn't cause me problems. Personally I'd say a good compressor is the most under-rated and perhaps misunderstood guitar effect there is. Sad thing is that because a compressor doesn't produce an instantaneous obvious noise shaping effect like say a distortion or a flanger it gets ignored. Just my two pennies worth though .

Cheers,
Tony

Posted by: muris Aug 16 2007, 10:59 PM

Thanks!

If none,I'll try to get to states one day

Posted by: Travelin' Man Aug 16 2007, 11:10 PM

That would be cool. Im on the east coast, so if you ever make it over here, say to New York, let me know, and I can drive up to see you