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GMC Forum _ PRACTICE ROOM _ What Keys Do You Prefer?
Posted by: Marcus Lavendell Apr 17 2009, 08:19 AM
When composing I find that I often only use a few keys. For example: E, D, Db/C#, C, B, A, Gb/F#...
But I seem to have a mental block for composing in some other keys, like: F, Bb/A#, Ab/G#, Eb/D#.... I have no problem learning songs in those keys, and I know how to play/improvise in them. But I’d probably never chose those keys when composing, which I find a bit fascinating 
I just thought it would be interesting to see what keys you guys like (and don’t like) when composing, and also why you like/don’t like them?
Posted by: audiopaal Apr 17 2009, 08:23 AM
Interesting topic Marcus
I'm not really sure what I prefer and not, but I'll look into it during the weekend!
Then I'll get back to you
Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Apr 17 2009, 08:24 AM
Well I'm probably pretty boring here - but usually I end up writing metal stuff in E (or D if I use drop D tuning).
I guess I will come to the stage when everything I do sounds identical - then I will have to start writing in other keys.
Posted by: Sentenced Apr 17 2009, 08:25 AM
I always tend to end up with E-minor, A-minor or simply the lowest chord Minor when the guitar is droped down 
, but then i try to use other keys because it helps me to create a different atmosphere.
Posted by: Canis Apr 17 2009, 08:34 AM
"D moinah.. The saddest of all keys" 
Posted by: Marcus Lavendell Apr 17 2009, 09:01 AM
must try that key sometime
Posted by: stevie ray hey hey hey Apr 17 2009, 09:08 AM
G and F or Em and Dm, sometimes Am and of course C, but my guitar is tuned a half step down most of the time, so I play F# and E, Dbm and Ebm and somtimes Abm and of course B, but when I play I like to keep thinking In terms of G, F, like the first one, is this wrong to do?
Posted by: Marcus Lavendell Apr 17 2009, 09:47 AM
Do you mean that you think in G major, even if the solo is in E minor?
Posted by: djohnneay Apr 17 2009, 10:02 AM
I only improvise play in G major and E minor, as those are the only keys I know by heart.
It's not impossible for me to improvise in other keys, but I most of the time when I do that I stay in the same 3 boxes, while with G major and E minor I can play all over the fretboard without thinking alot about it, and I think my playing sounds better that way.
I'm gonna try other keys soon, but I figured I'd first learn this key by heart (seeing as how G major has exactly the same notes as E minor). Also, being able to play G major also allows me to play in A dorian, B phrygian, C lydian, D mixolydian, of course E aeolian and F# Locrian, although the notes have other functions in that keys so its not gonna sound very good
Posted by: ZakkWylde Apr 17 2009, 10:12 AM
I love Em, Am, Dm and F# minor
Posted by: Canis Apr 17 2009, 10:16 AM
A little theory question about keys: Say I know the key of E, (which I should, really...) would the key of F be exactly the same pattern, just a half step up? One fret higher?
Posted by: Marcus Lavendell Apr 17 2009, 10:36 AM
Yes
Posted by: audiopaal Apr 17 2009, 10:39 AM
Thanks, now I learned something new today as well
Posted by: Muris Varajic Apr 17 2009, 10:45 AM
Nice topic Marcus!
Indeed, for composing instrument songs
we probably stick to more familiar keys without any real reason I guess.
But for songs with vocals we have to adapt lead range
with singer's voice range and that's when we really have to
think of other keys, tho even then we often "compose" in common
keys with transposing later on.
Dunno, me believe is that people with perfect pitch
hear all those keys differently and they like to compose
in the key that has specific sound or mood for them,
in relative pitch world it's more like transposing when needed.
Posted by: Marcus Lavendell Apr 17 2009, 10:50 AM
Good points Muris. Thanks!
Posted by: Matt23 Apr 17 2009, 10:50 AM
Well I'm most familiar with Eminor/Gmajor and Aminor/Cmajor. I think different keys have different sounds and atmospheres though, even if they are the same scale, so I compose in lots of different keys.
Posted by: Jesse Apr 17 2009, 11:06 AM
A and E minor for the win.
Posted by: Tolek Apr 17 2009, 11:17 AM
Before composing, I take my guitar and play somehthing until I´m pleased with it. Then I find out the key. Sometimes, it´s Dm, Em, Am, but sometimes it changes to C#m, F#m,... . It has just to sound good for me. I once read this about keys:
C major- Completely Pure. Its character is: innocence, simplicity, naïvety, children's talk.
C minor- Declaration of love and at the same time the lament of unhappy love. All languishing, longing, sighing of the love-sick soul lies in this key.
Db major- A leering key, degenerating into grief and rapture. It cannot laugh, but it can smile; it cannot howl, but it can at least grimace its crying.--Consequently only unusual characters and feelings can be brought out in this key.
D major- The key of triumph, of Hallejuahs, of war-cries, of victory-rejoicing. Thus, the inviting symphonies, the marches, holiday songs and heaven-rejoicing choruses are set in this key.
D minor- Melancholy womanliness, the spleen and humours brood.
D# minor- Feelings of the anxiety of the soul's deepest distress, of brooding despair, of blackest depresssion, of the most gloomy condition of the soul. Every fear, every hesitation of the shuddering heart, breathes out of horrible D# minor. If ghosts could speak, their speech would approximate this key.
Eb major- The key of love, of devotion, of intimate conversation with God.
E major- Noisy shouts of joy, laughing pleasure and not yet complete, full delight lies in E Major.
F major- Complaisance & calm.
F minor- Deep depression, funereal lament, groans of misery and longing for the grave.
F# major- Triumph over difficulty, free sigh of relief utered when hurdles are surmounted; echo of a soul which has fiercely struggled and finally conquered lies in all uses of this key.
F# minor- A gloomy key: it tugs at passion as a dog biting a dress. Resentment and discontent are its language.
G major- Everything rustic, idyllic and lyrical, every calm and satisfied passion, every tender gratitude for true friendship and faithful love,--in a word every gentle and peaceful emotion of the heart is correctly expressed by this key.
G minor- Discontent, uneasiness, worry about a failed scheme; bad-tempered gnashing of teeth; in a word: resentment and dislike.
Ab major- Key of the grave. Death, grave, putrefaction, judgment, eternity lie in its radius.
Ab minor- Grumbler, heart squeezed until it suffocates; wailing lament, difficult struggle; in a word, the color of this key is everything struggling with difficulty.
A major- This key includes declarations of innocent love, satisfaction with one's state of affairs; hope of seeing one's beloved again when parting; youthful cheerfulness and trust in God.
A minor- Pious womanliness and tenderness of character.
Bb major- Cheerful love, clear conscience, hope aspiration for a better world.
Bb minor- A quaint creature, often dressed in the garment of night. It is somewhat surly and very seldom takes on a pleasant countenance. Mocking God and the world; discontented with itself and with everything; preparation for suicide sounds in this key.
B major- Strongly coloured, announcing wild passions, composed from the most glaring coulors. Anger, rage, jealousy, fury, despair and every burden of the heart lies in its sphere.
B minor- This is as it were the key of patience, of calm awaiting ones's fate and of submission to divine dispensation.
Posted by: Pedja Simovic Apr 17 2009, 11:31 AM
I hear all keys and tonalities differently. I discovered this a while back when I started transposing chord progressions and melodies. My ear would literally give me yes or no for specific melody.
For example, some line in A minor doesn't have same feeling as in C# minor or F# minor ! The same goes for chord progressions. In some keys they sound brighter and happier, in other they sound darker and sad.
My approach is rarely connected to one key. When I write lessons for GMC surely its much easier to just pick one key and do soloing in one key. I usually pick C or A minor as almost all members here know it or learn it as their first key. That way its easier for them to relate to lessons.
When I compose and improvise I always go with modal approach rather then Key center approach, and that way I end up with lot of modulations and key changes (even modal interchange). It took me a while to get to that level but now my ear clearly gives me hint in terms of interval jumps for harmony as well as chord quality (major minor dominant or slash hibrid chords etc).
So my final answer is I don't have a favorite key when composing and improvising but for GMC lessons thats C major and related A minor
Posted by: Canis Apr 17 2009, 11:34 AM
Awesome list, Tolek! Maybe I'll use that one as a guideline
Posted by: Tolek Apr 17 2009, 11:38 AM
No problem.
One hint: follow your ear. That´s the best way of composing. When I start thinking theoretically, I end up with something that I´m not satisfied with. Usually, I need to hear a piece of music and get an idea. Then I HAVE to complete it during one session otherwise, I can´t complete it.
Posted by: Marcus Lavendell Apr 17 2009, 11:41 AM
+1
I can't find C# minor (or Db minor) om that list though. But the description of B minor (which is my favorite key) was spot on
Posted by: Tolek Apr 17 2009, 11:44 AM
I can't find C# minor (or Db minor) om that list though. But the description of B minor (which is my favorite key) was spot on
Yeah, the list is incomplete. I don´t know why. But with certain key descriptions I have to agree as well, they´re pretty exact.
Strange thing: F# minor- A gloomy key: it tugs at passion as a dog biting a dress. Resentment and discontent are its language.
I used this key for my latest composition which is music for an RPG battle.
I think I won the lottery here.
Posted by: Red Apr 17 2009, 11:46 AM
I suppose i like G, A, D and E the most, both major and minor
Posted by: Eat-Sleep-andJam Apr 17 2009, 01:54 PM
One hint: follow your ear. That´s the best way of composing. When I start thinking theoretically, I end up with something that I´m not satisfied with. Usually, I need to hear a piece of music and get an idea. Then I HAVE to complete it during one session otherwise, I can´t complete it.I agree !
I usually end up writing in A when Im just following my heart and writing lyrics and singing to what I have written.
When I try writing with the sole purpose of writing in a specific key, the end result sounds to forced.
Like Im trying to hard to make music that is not really something I would usually write.
Look at Iron Maiden, im pretty sure they were pretty comfy in E Minor , but didnt venture to far out of that key.
But they turned out ok
Posted by: Alexiaden93 Apr 17 2009, 07:54 PM
Hey I'm quite new to this site, only 1 day since I registered.
I usually improvise in E-minor, using the pentatonic scale (with blues notes added) depending on the feel of the song, given that it TOO is in E-minor... Anyway, that's just when I'm jamming on my own not necessarily with a backing track or song in the background. I also use the natural minor scale for a slightly heavier tone.
However, if I have to improvise to other songs, I simply find what key it's written in, use that base-position in minor or pentatonic, and work myself around the fretboard like that. I'm still most comfortable moving around the base position/box and the two adjacent ones, but I do know the other ones so with a little reflection I can play them too. This, of course, I just need to get used to. I noticed someone said he memorises all the positions for each key, but I prefer knowing the concept and just apply it after knowing the song's key.
Oh, and I also use the harmonic minor, but mostly for quick ascents or trilling, kind of like the beginning of the "second" solo in Sweet Child o' Mine (Guns N' Roses).
Alexander
Posted by: lee Apr 17 2009, 08:31 PM
I use Em,Am,Dm,and the blues scale quite a bit.
Posted by: Sensible Jones Apr 17 2009, 08:54 PM
Posted by: Ivan Milenkovic Apr 17 2009, 09:40 PM
I usually compose something in C, D, E, A, F or Bb major, but it is sometimes needed to adapt the key to singers vocal abilities, so I just transpose to any key if need to adapt. That's about it.
Posted by: IDontWantMyUsername Apr 17 2009, 11:18 PM
I just write stuff in the key it appears in my head, but it has, at least recently, been more D major and B minor than other. I don't know exactly why, but I guess I've been listening a lot to songs in those keys.
Posted by: Canis Apr 18 2009, 12:06 AM
That's exactly the one I was going for, Sensible
Posted by: Caelumamittendum Apr 18 2009, 01:12 AM
Short answer here before going to bed:
In order:
C#m
Cm
G#m
A
Are my favorites, I think.
Posted by: skennington Apr 19 2009, 01:56 AM
E and A for me as well. I'm also a bit interested in how Keys correspond to your style or is it just the feeling of the moment? Great topic btw Marcus
Posted by: Marcus Lavendell Apr 19 2009, 07:37 AM
For me, I've never actually thought about it so I guess it's just the feeling of the moment
But I do sometimes keep in mind what the highest note is... since the highest note I can play on my guitar is the high E (bend from the 21st fret), that means it's a 3rd if the key is C# minor. It's a whole different thing if the key, for example, is A minor (since the highest note still is an E).
Posted by: superize Apr 19 2009, 08:20 AM
I often use E minor and A minor
Posted by: berko Apr 19 2009, 08:29 AM
I love C and B minors (the latter one is because of Gilmour I think). I also like Eb major (relative scale of C minor). Sometimes F minor. When I'm in a minor mode, I sometimes raise the 7th half a step to get the harmonic minor flavor.
Posted by: kjutte Apr 19 2009, 12:09 PM
B C, Db E F# probably.
I guess it's because I am most comfortable with having my mainlicks about on the middle of the neck!
Posted by: Paiva Apr 19 2009, 01:00 PM
C minor, E minor and Bb minor
Posted by: kaznie_NL Apr 19 2009, 01:04 PM
For me.. Fb and Cb.... Haha, no I think It'd be Amin, Gmaj, Emin and Cmaj, or anything else... I actualy play all keys!
Posted by: Artemus Apr 19 2009, 02:43 PM
I quite like this key
but these keys have seen better days:
(sorry - obvious pun. Had to do it )
On a serious note, for jamming on guitar E and A major and their relative minors, just because they hold the familiar licks. Sure it's easy to transpose on guitar but when you've plays licks in those positions from day dot you don't have to think so much and can let your fingers do the talking. In a band context, I've had to get familiar with D minor (aeolian and harmonic) and it's domiant phyrgian since drop D tuning seems to be the tuning of choice for the band I'm in.
Also, B minor and its modes for the 7 string.
Posted by: jstcrsn Apr 19 2009, 03:03 PM
try playing with a capo on the 2 nd or 3rd fret it will train your ear differently, play an old rythum transposed for the capo then play your lead in the key so your rythum is transposed dut your lead isn,t , when i did this i would hit por choice note (wrong notes) but it spoke differently to me. for me i wish i had the time to learn other keys better
Posted by: ErikEklund Apr 19 2009, 10:26 PM
I think I like the key of A and G, I think its because the backings that I have is mostly in those keys so Im most used to them, but my goal is to feel comfortable with all keys
Posted by: Eat-Sleep-andJam Apr 19 2009, 11:42 PM
but these keys have seen better days:
(sorry - obvious pun. Had to do it
)On a serious note, for jamming on guitar E and A major and their relative minors, just because they hold the familiar licks. Sure it's easy to transpose on guitar but when you've plays licks in those positions from day dot you don't have to think so much and can let your fingers do the talking. In a band context, I've had to get familiar with D minor (aeolian and harmonic) and it's domiant phyrgian since drop D tuning seems to be the tuning of choice for the band I'm in.
Also, B minor and its modes for the 7 string.
Nobody else may have, but I enjoyed that
Posted by: stevie ray hey hey hey Apr 20 2009, 09:09 AM
Yeah, I'm like the next guy, only know the G scale by heart (for some weird reason I focussed unconciously on G major when I knew completely nothing about note names. And even after several years it never bores me to play in G major, I play it all over the fretboard and in other keys I knew only some boxes by heart... See it like this: if I would like to play in F major, I move the G mjor boxes up two frets or I tune in D. I'm gonna learn more about them other fancy notes and scales soon...
And when I improvise (like 80% of the time) I either use G major, move it or just don't think about scales at all... listen to the sound of some combinations and do it again; or just go completely crazy shredding the fretboard and not even mind wrong notes or repeat them wrong notes. The second time is always good, the first might suck (at least if you're the only one playing)
and for me there's not much difference between g major , e minor and the modal ways for playing G scale. But I do play mistakes against modal rules probably, but Then I just try again.
I learned some A major today... kick ass , I like it...
Posted by: Sensible Jones Apr 20 2009, 05:43 PM
Most of my Blues stuff is based around E and A (Both keys Major and Minor) or G Major. This is just due to where the Scale Patterns lay within the open Chord shapes and also my Vocals which tend to be a bit more 'Gravelly' than Chris Rea!!
Acoustically speaking I write more in G Maj, C Maj and D Maj or their relevant Minor shapes and adjust the Key to suit Vocals with a Capo.
Posted by: steve25 Apr 20 2009, 06:59 PM
Marcus i'm pretty sure you have written in Eb minor, it's just that you tune down a half step so although you are thinking in Em you are play Eb
Posted by: seagull Apr 21 2009, 05:24 AM
Interesting topic, clearly shows the nuances of music, because obviously people have different approaches to the keys and how they sound - thats diversity of music for ya!
Personally, I seek expression first of all when composing. I think my mind has some notes that it wants to hear in certain situations, then I look for them, mingle them with some chords, and I usually end up playing something with no idea about the key.
But thats the least of all problems, keys are just ways of explaining what you're playing (as is all theory) and therefore makes it easier to talk about.
But as I said, my mind wants to hear something and I try to play it. To my ear, every key has a distinct expression and some keys facilitate those expressions easier than others.
That said, I like to mix keys during progressions, so that the sound doesn't get too repetative and dull. I like the counterpoints that those mixes can create!
That didn't help the topic much, I guess, but I hope it makes sense!
Posted by: Pedja Simovic Apr 21 2009, 07:23 AM
Personally, I seek expression first of all when composing. I think my mind has some notes that it wants to hear in certain situations, then I look for them, mingle them with some chords, and I usually end up playing something with no idea about the key.
But thats the least of all problems, keys are just ways of explaining what you're playing (as is all theory) and therefore makes it easier to talk about.
But as I said, my mind wants to hear something and I try to play it. To my ear, every key has a distinct expression and some keys facilitate those expressions easier than others.
That said, I like to mix keys during progressions, so that the sound doesn't get too repetative and dull. I like the counterpoints that those mixes can create!
That didn't help the topic much, I guess, but I hope it makes sense!
+1 seagull
Perfectly explained.
But then again , it comes down to what kind of music have you been listening and what is your inner ear guiding you to do.
If all you ever listened was pop and blues, then your ear will guide you to make those chord progressions, its as simple as that
Posted by: Marcus Lavendell Apr 21 2009, 08:22 AM
Yes, but I don't tune down anymore.
But I did think in E-minor even though I actually played in Eb-minor, and I think most guitarists do that. The reason I tuned down was because I really like the tension in the strings. It's no big deal, but I prefer the strings a little looser than standard tuning
Posted by: steve25 Apr 21 2009, 09:18 AM
But I did think in E-minor even though I actually played in Eb-minor, and I think most guitarists do that. The reason I tuned down was because I really like the tension in the strings. It's no big deal, but I prefer the strings a little looser than standard tuning
I understand what you are saying but still, you have written music in Ebm. If you were to play in Ebm in standard tuning it would still sound the same
. I agree sometimes it's nicer to have the strings slightly loser and tuning down to Eb will do that for you. Although at the moment i'm using .10s so it's not too bad for me.
Posted by: enforcer Apr 21 2009, 09:39 AM
my car keys, and I love also my home keys.
Whoa?!?! are we talking about music?!?!
I don't prefer keys while composing generally keys prefer me But if I am composing for my band, I am generally limited with the range of vocals.
Cheers!
Posted by: Daniel Robinson Apr 21 2009, 03:20 PM
I think i am in the same frame of mind as Pedja, i tend to view music as modal relationships rather then keys.
I think it stems from the fact that when i first learned how to play that was the first thing i learned, i learned the G Major scale in all the mode boxes. And that is how i see the fretboard from those shapes just moved around from tone center to tone center.
But i also agree that it depends if you are writing for a specific vocalist, you want to play to their strengths to make the music more powerful.
Daniel
Posted by: Evil_Invader Apr 21 2009, 05:48 PM
I think about modes too. The only way I learnt. Might be interesting to understand more about keys thought, when university ends I'll kick my ass and learn Andrew lessons.
Posted by: sidewas lightning May 30 2009, 09:04 PM
A major/D lydian, and also e minor.
Posted by: kjutte May 31 2009, 08:12 AM
Same. I just went from 10s to 09s because of that. Tried Eb first, in 10s, but I didn't like it too much!
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