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Posted by: Sone Jan 1 2013, 08:40 PM

Hi. I don't know which tube-amp to buy? I play the blues and rock. I have an amp, and it's Fender Frontman 212r, which is really great, but I am collecting money for something more serious. I play the Stratocaster. I decided to by fender, and it will be combo amp. I really don't know what are the differences between twin reverb, super reverb, vibrasonic, blues deluxe, ... I prefer the tone with more bass, (like SRV, John Mayer). I hope you will tell me the differences between these amps, and what would be the best option for me. Thank you, and happy holidays!

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jan 1 2013, 09:07 PM

Well, as we always say, the best way to choose the amp that you are looking for is going to a music store and trying them with you guitar and your fingers.. the sounds changes a lot depending the guitar that you are using and also depending on the player. Tube amps are great and both Fender and Marshall have amps that cover the styles and tones that you like. You could start searching for the amps that SRV used and John Mayer uses and check some audio tests at youtube and then going to any stores to try the ones that you like more...

check this links:

http://www.uberproaudio.com/who-plays-what/146-john-mayers-guitar-gear-rig-and-equipment

http://www.uberproaudio.com/who-plays-what/162-stevie-ray-vaughan-guitar-gear-rig-and-equipment

Posted by: Sone Jan 1 2013, 09:25 PM

Thanks for fast response. I saw these links, but whats the essential difference between fender twin reverb, super twin reverb, vibrasonic, blues deluxe... Some people think, it's only difference in power. And what you think about used amps? I saw some twin reverbs from 'seventies and eighties, but they are used. Should I buy new or used amp?

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jan 1 2013, 10:23 PM

Well, I haven't try each of those amps so I can't talk about how it feels to play them but all the technical descriptions can be found at Fender's site: http://www.fender.com/es-ES/products/search.php?section=guitaramplifiers&numPerPage=100&series=Vintage+Reissue

And regarding getting and used amp, I think that it's a good idea but the best is to find that people that gets a good amp but don't work professionally as a musician so this means that they don't use it too much, and that they don't move the amp all the time from the rehearsal room to the concerts. This type of amps are really well made so you will find old amps in a very good state. The only thing that you surely will have to if the amp has many years is to replace the tubes... if you do it the amp will sound as a new amp.

Posted by: Sone Jan 2 2013, 12:02 AM

Huh..okey, that's what interests me for now. If somebody knows important differences between those amps, let me know about it. But, thanks for help.

What marshall tube-amp is best for blues/rock? Is it JCM 800? I need clean amp, because I use some pedals, and I don't need effect from amp.. (effects like distortion,...)

Posted by: GregH Jan 2 2013, 01:47 AM

I am afraid the answer is that you have to listen to each amp, preferably with your guitar and at a volume level that is where you think you will be using it.

Most of the Fender amps you mentioned are open back and that means that what is behind the amplifier will also effect how the amp sounds.

The difference between the Twin Reverb and the Vibrosonic is essentially two 12 inch speakers verses one 15 inch speaker. One 15 will not give as good a high frequency response as two 12s but the 15 will open up the low end more (assuming similar quality between the 12 and 15 inch speakers).

Personally, I prefer used amps. For the most part, the Fenders from the ’60 and ’70 sound better (in my opinion). The designers were a little more on top of tube design, being state of the art technology then.

All tube amps will require more maintenance the solid state amplifiers. Tubes wear out. The heat levels are higher and the voltages are a lot higher so some parts (like electrolytic capacitors) tend to die over time. But tube amps are still capable of lasting years without maintenance.

I have a ’71 Twin which has given me years of good service. I end up re-tubing it every once and a while but other than that (so far) it has been reasonably trouble free. I did dispose of the original Eminence speakers and put in Altec 417s. That really cleaned up the high end. I currently am trying JBL D120F speakers. They brought out the middle a little more then the Altecs but I lost some of the ice-clear highs.

To me, the biggest factor in how a tube amp sounds is the type of output tube used in the amplifier. All the Fenders you mentioned use the 6L6. That tube, in a properly designed amp, has a really good clean sound. They can produce a nice dirty sound when pushed hard but the cleans are where they do the best. Several amplifiers with 6L6s do have notably good distortion (Mesa Boogy, for example) but they get most of the distortion from overdriving the preamp section (in general, with exceptions).

Marshall amps, in general, like the 800, tend to use the EL34. I have never been a fan of the EL34 for its clean sound. In a lot of ways, they are not a very well designed tube. However, when driven hard, the EL34 complains in a wonderfully sounding way, giving a nice dirty sound. My Marshall Super Lead is an example of that. Great amp, but not my first choice for clean sounds.

So, once again, listen to each amp yourself and see which one fits in with how your guitar sounds in your head.

Posted by: klasaine Jan 2 2013, 04:32 AM

As mentioned above the best thing to do is try them with your guitar.

In general, I can tell you this and as we say in the States - YMMV ... 'your milegage may vary'.

Twin Reverb - Loud (85 to 100 watts depending on the model), heavy and usually 'bright' ( a lot of high end). Twins are best when you can turn them up a little bit.
Super Reverb - a little less wattage - smaller transformer, less efficient speakers (that's not a bad thing in amps necessarily). Darker and mellower than a Twin. Both SRV and Derek Trucks used/use Supers.
Vibrolux - the smallest of the 6L6 fenders. 2x10" speakers, small tranny, quick breakup. A great amp for blues.

[*Super Twin* ... stay away from this amp. One of the weakest of the fender family in both tone and construction. Yes, I owned one briefly.]

Vibrasonic - Big transformer and JBL speakers (4x10"). Another loud and clean Fender.

Hot Rod/Blues series are newer fender amps and I feel they all sound pretty good. It's really more about how much power you need and how much dough you want to spend. I use a Blues Junior all the time on small/quiet gigs. A Blues or Hot Rod Deluxe will have a darker sound than a Twin.

A 'Pro' is like a low powered Twin. In general the Pro will start to break up around 4 and a Twin will be pretty clean until almost all the way up. Of course it depends on your pickups too. If you're using overwound humbuckers you'll drive any amp into 'breakup' faster.

I personally would recommend a Silver Face era Deluxe, Vibrolux or Super (even a twin) if you can find one in decent condition. They're great sounding (now 'vintage') amps that are still reasonably priced and will last for ever when taken care of. *They also have great re-sale value.

I use both a SF era Princeton and a BF era Bassman - they're my two favorite amplifiers (and I have a lot of amps, lol!).

*Again these are very quick and rough generalizations about a few of the more popular Fender amps (there are MANY more models both vintage and current).
The second tune in my signature is using a re-issue Fender Bassman amp (with a CIJ Fender Jazzmaster guitar).

I have a lot of descriptions of gear listed with the songs posted here ... http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=1013566&content=music

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jan 2 2013, 05:37 AM

Great input guys! I'm not very into Fender Amps so I can't say which is the different. I always preferred Marshall and Mesa Boggie for rock and metal. If you are going to use Pedals to boost the amp, I think that JCM800 would be my choice, it's my favourite among Marshall amps. This amps only have one channel and the drive starts to appear when you set it at higher volume. I had a JCM 900 dual reverb and tried a JCM 800 and the second one won the battle! The tone was warmer and bigger... But once again, I think that the best would be that you try both with your guitar.

Posted by: klasaine Jan 2 2013, 08:03 AM

I'll second what Gabriel just mentioned.
A Marshall will definitely get you into darker/bassier territory.

*The low end thing is partly a function of the speaker(s) and cabinet. As a general rule, the bigger the cab and with at least two 12 inch speakers (or 4x10" or one 15") you will be able to get significant low end. Think about the 'thump' of a 4x12" Marshall cab.

Orange and Ampeg amps are also of the 'darker' variety and vintage Ampegs are still reasonably priced.

Choosing and then 'playing' an amp is as equally complex (and fascinating) as playing guitar.

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Jan 2 2013, 10:38 AM

Hmmm, I don't have enough experience with bluesy amps and especially with Fender amps, but one very, very important question would be: What sort of a budget do you have in mind?

Posted by: Sone Jan 2 2013, 01:10 PM

Thanks guys, I really appreciate that! Well, in my country (Serbia), I can find used Fender Twin Reverb (in good state) for 700e, 800e. That is okey with me, because I really want to find some amp that will serve me for long years, and I will be satisfied..

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jan 2 2013, 01:33 PM

That sounds good. Remember to try it first. The good side about buying an used one is that you don't lose money if you decide to sell it after some months of use because you are not 100% satisfied with the tone.

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Jan 2 2013, 02:40 PM

As Gabe says, try it first and buy it after you have decided it's close to 100% to what you want

Posted by: Sone Jan 2 2013, 03:23 PM

Thank you guys very much! I am new at this site, and I like it very much! Cheers

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jan 2 2013, 03:26 PM

no problem mate! Let us know how the story ends and also if you have any other question!

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Jan 2 2013, 03:37 PM

As Gabe said, we're here to help, so don't shy away from asking questions

Posted by: zoom Jan 2 2013, 07:03 PM

Talking about Fender amps I've got a Blues Junior which I love. I was wondering about putting a Blackstar Valve pedal in front of it?
I can't bypass the pre amp of the amp though. I have a pod 2 which really sounds bad with it so I'm thinking no.
I do like the sound from these pedals though.

Posted by: klasaine Jan 2 2013, 07:45 PM

I've never used a Blackstar but I play ODs in front of my Blues Jr. all the time and so far they all sound pretty good.
Blackstar has a good reputation. It'll probably sound great.

Posted by: PosterBoy Jan 2 2013, 08:31 PM

Fender amps tend to take pedals really well.

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Jan 2 2013, 09:38 PM

I liked everything Blackstar I tried so far - I got a friend owning the http://www.blackstaramps.com/products/ht-5c/ and it's seriously mean for its size

Posted by: Todd Simpson Jan 2 2013, 09:53 PM

This a great question! And also a question nearly every guitarist has to face at some point. It's been answered/debated countless times here in the forum. A quick search will yield some great results. But it's always good to see it redebated There is always something to learn from the discussion.

One of the big limiting factors is PRICE. So picking a price is a good place to start.

I've never used/tried the fender amps personally so I can't help you there. But as for the Marshall, the JCM series is always a good bet, as is the BLACKSTAR line. Also, BOGNER, EGNATER, HUGHES&KETNER, etc. Each of these amps has their own charm and is best experienced/judged by actually getting in front of one and playing through it. That's what I'd suggest no matter what you end up wanting to buy. Do whatever it takes to get to a good music store and bring your own guitar and try out some amps!

Todd

Posted by: Sone Jan 2 2013, 10:11 PM

Yeah man, I finished with making my pedalboard. I don't like effects and that kind of stuff. The pedal that I use and I like so much, it's Ibanez Tube Screamer (TS9). I love tone that comes out from guitar and amp. That's why I look for clean amp, and my idea is to by Fender. Now, it's only one thing...which?

Posted by: Todd Simpson Jan 3 2013, 03:11 AM

hard to go wrong with a TUBE SCREAMER They are the "Secret Sauce" of many players tone. Even with those with "High Gain" Amps

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jan 3 2013, 04:23 AM

Yeah, as Todd said, this pedal is a treasure. From Jimi Hendrix to some of the most extreme metal bands use this pedal to boost the drive of many different amps, so my suggestion is to keep your tube screamer.

Posted by: Sone Jan 3 2013, 12:07 PM

Yes, I wouldn't give my baby for anything! So, I think that it would be the best thing... strat with twin reverb and tube screamer!

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Jan 4 2013, 09:35 AM

I have to say that the TS808 is better in my opinion - I tried them both and I tend to like the TS 808 because it's creamier! If I could use that word to describe the richness of the tone

Posted by: Todd Simpson Jan 5 2013, 02:01 AM

The 808 is an AWESOME pedal and a great addition to any setup. I have to agree it's a bit better than the Screamer, but to be honest, it's not a difference everyone can hear. Everyone's ears are different, but some folks claim the pedals are so similar in practice as to not make the 808 worth the price. An original 808 (non reproduction) is not cheap. The tube screamer is a fine pedal in it's own right but yeah, hard to beat an 808

Todd

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Jan 5 2013, 02:56 PM

Hehe! I knew you'd notice the difference

Posted by: unclemeat Jan 7 2013, 04:15 PM

You mentioned several Fender amps, and that you like to play blues & rock. One possible issue you'll run into is that so many Fender amps have terrible distortion channels. That might turn you off in the store or a few days after buying one.

A lot of the folks that you like may play Fenders, but use an overdrive for all their gain. Or even if they use a Marshall, Vox, etc, they probably still don't use the stock distortion channel a ton. IE - SRV used Marshall amps, but relied heavily on a tube screamer, fuzz face, etc.

Just keep that in mind as you shop - you don't have to find an amp that gets every sound you're after. Find one that does one sound extremely well, and worry about adding on to it later. That is exactly why the Fender Twins have been so popular, they are insanely loud and clean - which is great for playing live, and you can always throw some gain in front of it.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Jan 8 2013, 05:07 PM

Those pedals are just AWESOME But we are heading in to PEDAL GEEK land once we are splitting up 808s/screamers/reproduction/original, etc. For most players, the stock, brand new, reissue, screamer in just about any flavor is a handy addition to just about any rig if only for boost in solos or driving a tube amp harder. It's like a cheap pre-amp/eq almost

But being a bit of an Ibanez/Metal geek, I"ve had my eye out for an 808 on ebay FOREVER. The prices keep going up on them instead of down and I"m still being patient waiting for a really good deal as It's more of a "Want" than a "Need"

There is a company called GODLYKE that is even building new 808s with the original chip that made the old units so great, the JRC4558 IC chip. Here is a link : )

http://www.godlyke.com/maxon-guitar-effects/maxon-resissue-series-effects/overdrive-od808

Here is a vid, for those interested, going through some various flavors of the screamer series



Todd

Posted by: klasaine Jan 8 2013, 05:35 PM

This is my 'Screamer' of choice these days. They can be a little pricey new but you can usually find them used or on 'special' for about 1/2 the list price.
http://www.maxonfx.com/Nine_VOP9.php

*I'm pretty sure Maxon still makes the new/reissue 808's. Godlyke is a distributor.
Check Godlyke's 'B' Stock items:
http://www.godlyke.com/b-stock-guitar-effects
There are two VOP-9s at the bottom of the page cheap!

Posted by: PosterBoy Jan 8 2013, 06:04 PM

One of the cheap 'secret' overdrives used by some of the big session guys like Tom Bukovac is the Nobel overdrive

Posted by: klasaine Jan 9 2013, 05:58 AM

That SD2 (a fantastic drive) hasn't been made for a while. Not always so easy to find (usually two or three on ebay around 80.00 US). And Bukovacs (as well as many other player's) Nobels ODR-1 is the old one. The new ones are not the same. Arion stuff has the same cache and rep - but only the earlier 80's and 90's era pedals. They were probably 20 dollars at the time - cheap even then. They were designed by good engineers and made with good parts.
There are TONS of great and inexpensive OD pedals out there. One def does not need a 'boutique' drive to sound good.
For example: a great inexpensive drive that's a little heavier than a TS and has more tonal range that keeps the low end is an Ibanez SD9 - sonic distortion. Many, many pros use a stock SD9.

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Jan 9 2013, 11:50 AM

I totally agree with this. You can't expect to have an amp that 'does it all'. That's why, if you have a limited budget, it's best to build your rig in time and get the best out of it, without making any compromises, if possible