Setting Up A Floyd Options

[dcz702]

i like to do my own set ups, ive done 2 of my guitars and they are all set up nicely, after my set ups i brought them to a guiatr tech who did my first set up on my first guitar and while he did it i watched while he explained, very nice of him i should say, and he said that they were set up great and looks like i have no need to use a tech as far as basic adjustments to neck, bridge, and intonation.
now i got a new guitar with a floyd wich i have never worked with, and its got 9's on it right now, i got a pack of d'addario 11-49 that i want to put on and have the guitar tuned a step down in D and drop C.
also i was wondering do you guys prefer for drop C 10's with heavy bottom think there like 52? 11-49 seemed like a good choice. but i though light on the high stings would be better for solo work with heavy bottoms to keep the tension.
so as for as setting up with a floyd how should i go about this. how many springs should i have on it? there is a extra spring in the bag and with heavier strings seems like i should use it.
this is the angle the floyd is at right now. is this the right angle for it? and also im debating string gauge right now im really thinking of putting on 10-52 instead of 11-49 but ill wait for some suggestion before i start my set up so i only do it once

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This post has been edited by dcz702: Apr 6 2014, 02:36 AM

[Spock]

You may enjoy one of these. I had never heard of them until today and picked one up.

It's called an EVH D Tuna. You can drop E to D on a Floyd Rose...

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[dcz702]

You may enjoy one of these. I had never heard of them until today and picked one up.

It's called an EVH D Tuna. You can drop E to D on a Floyd Rose...

sweet that things cool, ill lokk into it after ive completed my set up thanks

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[AK Rich]

The angle on that floyd is tilted too far forward, you want to have it end up being flat with the body of the guitar , or neutral. You may have to experiment a little to get that flat with the higher gauge strings and it is possible that you may need that extra spring but maybe not.

Make a temporary block out of a piece of wood and trim it to the size you need to keep the trem flat or parallel with the body of the guitar.
( I usually use some cedar shim stock) The block goes in the trem cavity between the trem block and the body of the guitar to hold the trem flat with the body while you put your new strings on and tune them up. After it is tuned, remove the temporary block and then adjust the anchor screws for the spring anchor till the trem is flat again if it tilts back forward which it almost assuredly will. When you have tightened the screws enough on the spring anchor to match the tension of the strings, or add a spring, or both, the trem will have returned to a flat or neutral position and also be in tune , or at least very close.

You could aslo purchase a "Trem Stop" to install in the trem cavity to use when changing strings. This saves alot of time tuning and retuning when changing strings on a floating trem. Oh, and you should also check your intonation after you have set your trem flat. If it was setup with it tilted forward like in your pic, then it is going to be a bit off after resetting it flat.

Here are some good vids on setting up a floyd rose. Also these guys are a great place for floyd parts and accessories.

http://www.floydrose.com/

Trem stop http://www.floydrose.com/catalog/extras/tremolo-stops

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[dcz702]

The angle on that floyd is tilted too far forward, you want to have it end up being flat with the body of the guitar , or neutral. You may have to experiment a little to get that flat with the higher gauge strings and it is possible that you may need that extra spring but maybe not.

Make a temporary block out of a piece of wood and trim it to the size you need to keep the trem flat or parallel with the body of the guitar.
( I usually use some cedar shim stock) The block goes in the trem cavity between the trem block and the body of the guitar to hold the trem flat with the body while you put your new strings on and tune them up. After it is tuned, remove the temporary block and then adjust the anchor screws for the spring anchor till the trem is flat again if it tilts back forward which it almost assuredly will. When you have tightened the screws enough on the spring anchor to match the tension of the strings, or add a spring, or both, the trem will have returned to a flat or neutral position and also be in tune , or at least very close.

You could aslo purchase a "Trem Stop" to install in the trem cavity to use when changing strings. This saves alot of time tuning and retuning when changing strings on a floating trem. Oh, and you should also check your intonation after you have set your trem flat. If it was setup with it tilted forward like in your pic, then it is going to be a bit off after resetting it flat.

Here are some good vids on setting up a floyd rose. Also these guys are a great place for floyd parts and accessories.

http://www.floydrose.com/

Trem stop http://www.floydrose.com/catalog/extras/tremolo-stops

Thanks rich. Is it ok to adjust the screws on the claw while the strings are tuned. Or should I slack them. And what have your prefered for string gauge on drop c and standard D tuning?

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[AK Rich]

Thanks rich. Is it ok to adjust the screws on the claw while the strings are tuned. Or should I slack them. And what have your prefered for string gauge on drop c and standard D tuning?

No sweat DCZ, us floyd guys gotta stick together!
Yes, it is fine to adjust the claw or spring anchor screws with the strings on the guitar. In fact you will have to as a final adjustment after you pull the block out and/if the trem tilts back forward.
Block the trem flat, put on your strings and tune, remove the block. At this point you can actually use the tuner when you adjust the anchor screws, just tune the A string or low E string by adjusting the anchor. When it comes back into tune , the trem should be flat again. you will probably have to tune the other strings again slightly. You should only have to adjust the anchor this one time , and not every time you change strings, unless you change string gauge again.

I don't use a standard D tune or drop C so I can't really recommend an optimum gauge for this.This is also why I am not sure if you will need that extra spring.I am leaning towards thinking you may not need that extra spring.
I am sure there are plenty of guys here that have good advice on string gauge though. Obviously a higher string gauge than the Super Slinkys that I use I would say.

PS: One more thing, since the trem is already tilting forward, making the spring tension less than the string tension, you will probably have to pre-tighten the anchor screws to increase spring tension before you put your new strings on. I would probably actually over tighten the spring anchor claw so that the trem is tilting back a bit before I put changed strings, tight enough so that I know the string tension will not pull the trem forward and make my wood block fall out. Or you could make 2 blocks of wood to keep the trem from tilting either way, forward or backwards. Or use that extra spring temporarily to keep the trem against the block.
Here are a couple shots of my woodblock and where it goes in the trem cavity.
[attachment=36578:IMG_0381.jpg]
[attachment=36579:IMG_0382.jpg]

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This post has been edited by AK Rich: Apr 6 2014, 06:54 AM

[SpaseMoonkey]

I normally play with 9s in standard, I go up 1 gauge every time I go a full step. So D standard would be 10s and C standard would be 11s.

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[jstcrsn]

[attachment=36579:IMG_0382.jpg]

rich is right on,in addition to this picture,block both sides with blocks that set the tremolo plate parallel to the body , then tune,remove the block on the spring side(if the springs allow the other block to fall out -loosen them until that block stays tight when tuned,you will probably have to re-tune ).
Then, slowly tighten screws for spring plate , this way as soon as the other block loosens , you know you spring tension and tremolo plate are where they need to be

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[dcz702]

rich is right on,in addition to this picture,block both sides with blocks that set the tremolo plate parallel to the body , then tune,remove the block on the spring side(if the springs allow the other block to fall out -loosen them until that block stays tight when tuned,you will probably have to re-tune ).
Then, slowly tighten screws for spring plate , this way as soon as the other block loosens , you know you spring tension and tremolo plate are where they need to be

Ok. Think I understand. so I need to cut two little blocks as close to a perfect size as I can get to have the tremolo lay flush with the body wth no strings on. Then after I've restrung and tuned remove the block. Then the guitar will be out of tune but if had the block in at the right size when I restrung when I adjust the screws to make the Floyd go the the position it was in while the blocks were in it will return to pitch while adjusting the claw then voila tension and height of the Floyd is set?
Update:
I'll be doing my set up tues when I'm off so I can have the day to make sure my set up is perfect with all the time I need. I was thinking that if the block is in on the spring side with the block cut just right so the trem is flush with the body, when I restring it's gonna pull the tremolo up causing the block to come lose when the trem goes back up, meaning I'll have to add the spring and tighten the screws, so that's why jstcrsn said to put another block on the opposite side to keep that from happening? So if you didn't use two blocks could you also just pre tighten the screws before putting on the strings cause you already know your gonna need more tension on the springs. Then when removing the block loosen the spring to get it back to pitch? I have yet to watch the videos rich posted but I will, just thinking out loud.

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This post has been edited by dcz702: Apr 6 2014, 01:30 PM

[jstcrsn]

I'll be doing my set up tues when I'm off so I can have the day to make sure my set up is perfect with all the time I need. I was thinking that if the block is in on the spring side with the block cut just right so the trem is flush with the body, when I restring it's gonna pull the tremolo up causing the block to come lose when the trem goes back up, meaning I'll have to add the spring and tighten the screws, so that's why jstcrsn said to put another block on the opposite side to keep that from happening? So if you didn't use two blocks could you also just pre tighten the screws before putting on the strings cause you already know your gonna need more tension on the springs. Then when removing the block loosen the spring to get it back to pitch? I have yet to watch the videos rich posted but I will, just thinking out loud.

yup, you can over tighten the springs(or add a temporary extra one) with only using the inside block and then loosen the spring plate until that blocks loosens,I would just try to avoid adjusting the spring plate screws to much,those are important and to much tightening and loosening might cause movement while playing or needing new holes if they eventually get stripped

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[AK Rich]

It sounds like you have the idea DCZ. One thing to keep in mind if you use a temporary extra spring. After the guitar is tuned with the new strings on it , remove that extra spring before you adjust the spring anchor. You don't want to have so much spring tension that you have to loosen the spring anchor so much that the screws almost come out of the wood, or even come all the way out, that would be a disaster if the screws ripped out the last few threads and the tension is completely released all at once.
Definitely watch those video's, it will help. The guy uses a Trem stop but the idea is the same as using a temporary block of wood.

One more thing to consider, depending on how much bigger of a string gauge you use, is that there will be more tension on the neck which may result in a slight bow. If that is the case you may need to adjust the truss rod slightly. If you have to do this , just make sure you only make small adjustments and then give the neck some time to settle to that small adjustment before you adjust again, if you have to.
There are plenty of youtube video's that explain this too. This guy is pretty good and has a bunch of video on guitar setups etc.



https://www.youtube.com/user/FruduaTv

http://frudua.com/

Also, when you are done with the setup, hang on to that small block of wood you used on the spring side of the trem. It will come in handy the next time you change strings. The next time you change strings.Put the block back in, remove the old strings, put on your new strings and tune, then remove the block. It will make the whole process go much faster and you will only have to tune once or twice rather than 5 or 6 times before you have equal tension and a guitar that is in tune.

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This post has been edited by AK Rich: Apr 6 2014, 05:50 PM

[dcz702]

The angle on that floyd is tilted too far forward, you want to have it end up being flat with the body of the guitar , or neutral. You may have to experiment a little to get that flat with the higher gauge strings and it is possible that you may need that extra spring but maybe not.



http://www.floydrose.com/

Trem stop http://www.floydrose.com/catalog/extras/tremolo-stops

thanks again for these, they helped a lot. couldnt wait. got off work at 1 am rushed home and stayed up a few hours setting it up.
woke up this morning gave the truss rod a little turn, then again when i left few hours later, i could tell it was gonna need it with heavier strings . then came home and set up the floyd, i didnt use a block though i just stacked some bussiness cards underneath the trem against the body of the guitar . seems to be good and 11-49 in D tuning feels like 10-46 in E standard.

one thing thats bugging me is when i drop C everything goes out of tune and i have to Tune up a couple times to get into tune in drop C then going back to D is the same way. when i inspect the back and the whole floyd system it seems to me that a trem stop might fix this cause it will stop the floyd from dropping down when i drop the 6th string, as long as i set the floyd up at D standard. I'm a correct in assuming this? or maybe a D-tuna like spock suggested

i set the floyd with just a little tiny angle when its in D cause when i drop and have to retune everything the floyd drops perfectly flush in drop C, this thing a pain in the butt, but il get used to it

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This post has been edited by dcz702: Apr 7 2014, 12:33 PM

[jstcrsn]

this is the give and take with a floyd.Awesome whammy dives and squeals ,always having to keep it in the same tuning with the same string

if you experiment with it, sometimes you can find the right string /tuning gauges that will allow you to go from regular to drop d, or some variation .I use to tune E flat with nines and drop D flat with tens with out needing to re-adjust anything

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[Spock]

Another thing concerning a Floyd Rose is the Tremolo Block.

I had read many complaints online (people always complain online) about "Floyd Rose Licensed" being crap compared to the "Floyd Rose Original".

I was about to pull the trigger on getting an original but I talked with a technician at my local Guitar Center, as well as a luthier - and they both said the same thing. That unless you are looking for resale value, there is no need to upgrade to an original, that as long as the tremolo is set up correctly, the cheaper "Floyd Rose Licensed" ones work just as good. But they did say that you can greatly benefit by upgrading the tremolo block - regardless of if the tremolo is the original or the licensed. The Floyd Rose "Hot Rod" comes stocked with the bigger block which is made of brass and helps with sustain and resonance.

So for $25-$35, depending on the size you get (32mm, 37mm or 42mm) you can greatly enhance your tremolo. I went with the 37mm.



I admit - I may still one day get an Original Floyd Rose, just so that in my mind I can feel better about it, but knowing that the cheaper Korean made models work just as good was an eye opener. Sure, it's not going to be titanium and some parts will be alloys, where the German made FR are steel - these are all upgradable if you wish. So for the time being I'm going to stick with the stock FR and the big block and hope that my over-compulsive disorder is satisfied for a while.

Oh duh, I just watched the video and he covered the block - never mind.

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This post has been edited by Spock: Apr 7 2014, 01:57 PM

[AK Rich]

thanks again for these, they helped a lot. couldnt wait. got off work at 1 am rushed home and stayed up a few hours setting it up.
woke up this morning gave the truss rod a little turn, then again when i left few hours later, i could tell it was gonna need it with heavier strings . then came home and set up the floyd, i didnt use a block though i just stacked some bussiness cards underneath the trem against the body of the guitar . seems to be good and 11-49 in D tuning feels like 10-46 in E standard.

one thing thats bugging me is when i drop C everything goes out of tune and i have to Tune up a couple times to get into tune in drop C then going back to D is the same way. when i inspect the back and the whole floyd system it seems to me that a trem stop might fix this cause it will stop the floyd from dropping down when i drop the 6th string, as long as i set the floyd up at D standard. I'm a correct in assuming this? or maybe a D-tuna like spock suggested

i set the floyd with just a little tiny angle when its in D cause when i drop and have to retune everything the floyd drops perfectly flush in drop C, this thing a pain in the butt, but il get used to it

Right on DCZ! Congrats and glad I could help! Yeah, unfortunately that is going to happen when you drop that first string a whole step, since by doing so you have reduced the tension of the strings and then the springs take up that difference in return.
A trem stop can solve that problem, and I think that if you install a D-Tuna that you will also want to install a trem stop along with it to keep from having the same issue.
I might even go as far as setting the trem spring tension so that it stops flat with an E standard tunings string tension, that way you have more tuning options without having to adjust the spring tension again later. If you do this though, keep in mind that depressing the trem bar will require a bit more force and change the feel of it slightly.
If you are never going to use an E standard tuning on that guitar then there really is no need to do this though.
The pro's of installing the trem stop is that you will never need to reset the spring tension no matter what tuning you use as long as the spring tension is enough for the highest string tension it will ever have.
The con is that you won't be able to up trem, which is the reason I have never installed a trem stop, I like to be able to trem up and also use the trem as a vibrato where I can alternate the pitch of a given note above as well as below that note which makes for a bit different sounding vibrato than just using your fingers to bend up and back to the fretted note.

As far as using business cards for your temporary block , good idea! You could also use some guitar picks in varying thicknesses to do this now that I think about it.

Does the intonation still seem to be good?

Another thing concerning a Floyd Rose is the Tremolo Block.

I had read many complaints online (people always complain online) about "Floyd Rose Licensed" being crap compared to the "Floyd Rose Original".

I was about to pull the trigger on getting an original but I talked with a technician at my local Guitar Center, as well as a luthier - and they both said the same thing. That unless you are looking for resale value, there is no need to upgrade to an original, that as long as the tremolo is set up correctly, the cheaper "Floyd Rose Licensed" ones work just as good. But they did say that you can greatly benefit by upgrading the tremolo block - regardless of if the tremolo is the original or the licensed. The Floyd Rose "Hot Rod" comes stocked with the bigger block which is made of brass and helps with sustain and resonance.

So for $25-$35, depending on the size you get (32mm, 37mm or 42mm) you can greatly enhance your tremolo. I went with the 37mm.



I admit - I may still one day get an Original Floyd Rose, just so that in my mind I can feel better about it, but knowing that the cheaper Korean made models work just as good was an eye opener. Sure, it's not going to be titanium and some parts will be alloys, where the German made FR are steel - these are all upgradable if you wish. So for the time being I'm going to stick with the stock FR and the big block and hope that my over-compulsive disorder is satisfied for a while.

Oh duh, I just watched the video and he covered the block - never mind.

The age old debate of original floyd vs new floyds. Like you said it basically comes down to the materials used to make the originals that make them superior over the new ones. That is why I like and have an original.
I am glad you mentioned the big block upgrade. I have been meaning to ask in the forums if anyone has tried one of these since I have been considering this upgrade to increase sustain on my old Kramer with an original floyd.
Have you done this upgrade? And if so did it really give better sustain and resonance?
Like you , I have heard that it does, but I would really like to hear it from someone that has done it before I spend anything on it.

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This post has been edited by AK Rich: Apr 7 2014, 09:48 PM

[dcz702]

Right on DCZ! Congrats and glad I could help! Yeah, unfortunately that is going to happen when you drop that first string a whole step, since by doing so you have reduced the tension of the strings and then the springs take up that difference in return.
A trem stop can solve that problem, and I think that if you install a D-Tuna that you will also want to install a trem stop along with it to keep from having the same issue.
I might even go as far as setting the trem spring tension so that it stops flat with an E standard tunings string tension, that way you have more tuning options without having to adjust the spring tension again later. If you do this though, keep in mind that depressing the trem bar will require a bit more force and change the feel of it slightly.
If you are never going to use an E standard tuning on that guitar then there really is no need to do this though.
The pro's of installing the trem stop is that you will never need to reset the spring tension no matter what tuning you use as long as the spring tension is enough for the highest string tension it will ever have.
The con is that you won't be able to up trem, which is the reason I have never installed a trem stop, I like to be able to trem up and also use the trem as a vibrato where I can alternate the pitch of a given note above as well as below that note which makes for a bit different sounding vibrato than just using your fingers to bend up and back to the fretted note.

As far as using business cards for your temporary block , good idea! You could also use some guitar picks in varying thicknesses to do this now that I think about it.

Does the intonation still seem to be good?

thanks rich
after thinking about it im not gonna use a trem stop or d tuna im just gonna tune up to the tuning i need, its really not that big of a deal to take a little extra time to drop c tune. this guitar will only be used in d standard and drop c, i have other guitars for E and E flat.
the intonation is off a bit when i set the neck, spring tension, and action i wanted to let the guitar set over night to come back in the morning and go over the set up befor intonating, i just looked it over and im about to set the intonation now then ill be done and ready to enjoy me new guitar, im glad i was able to figure out how to preform a set up without needing a tech, i think this is something that i should be able to do myself thank you rich, jtrsn and spock for you help.

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[Spock]

Have you done this upgrade? And if so did it really give better sustain and resonance?
Like you , I have heard that it does, but I would really like to hear it from someone that has done it before I spend anything on it.

I just purchased the new block, so it has not been delivered yet. I hope to have everything in by this weekend and get it put together though.

In talking to 2 luthiers over the past couple of weeks, picking their brains, they both felt the block was the best upgrade you could put on the FR licensed - as well, they help out the original FRs (which do not come stock with them - except for the Hot Rod). I have not tried it yet, just taking their word for it. Essentially both of their takes were that, if you could live knowing that what you have is not the Original FR, you'll save yourself a lot of money. Sure, there are better materials in many aspects of the German built ones - but as far as function, they felt that as long as it was set up correctly, it would be just fine.

I know me though, and regardless of the fact I will never use the tremolo for anything insanely crazy, I'm one of those people that it will eat at me until I have the real thing, but at least I don't feel compelled to purchase it right this minute.

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[AK Rich]

thanks rich
after thinking about it im not gonna use a trem stop or d tuna im just gonna tune up to the tuning i need, its really not that big of a deal to take a little extra time to drop c tune. this guitar will only be used in d standard and drop c, i have other guitars for E and E flat.
the intonation is off a bit when i set the neck, spring tension, and action i wanted to let the guitar set over night to come back in the morning and go over the set up befor intonating, i just looked it over and im about to set the intonation now then ill be done and ready to enjoy me new guitar, im glad i was able to figure out how to preform a set up without needing a tech, i think this is something that i should be able to do myself thank you rich, jtrsn and spock for you help.

Awesome DCZ! Yes, the more work we can do on our own instruments, the more money we have to spend on new gear! I hope the new axe treats you right. What kind did you get by the way?

I just purchased the new block, so it has not been delivered yet. I hope to have everything in by this weekend and get it put together though.

In talking to 2 luthiers over the past couple of weeks, picking their brains, they both felt the block was the best upgrade you could put on the FR licensed - as well, they help out the original FRs (which do not come stock with them - except for the Hot Rod). I have not tried it yet, just taking their word for it. Essentially both of their takes were that, if you could live knowing that what you have is not the Original FR, you'll save yourself a lot of money. Sure, there are better materials in many aspects of the German built ones - but as far as function, they felt that as long as it was set up correctly, it would be just fine.

I know me though, and regardless of the fact I will never use the tremolo for anything insanely crazy, I'm one of those people that it will eat at me until I have the real thing, but at least I don't feel compelled to purchase it right this minute.

Sounds good Spock! Can you let us know how it works out once you have it installed and have had the chance to play with it for a while to determine if it is worth the upgrade? I have heard the testimonials from some, but I would be more convinced hearing it from someone here at GMC that has done the upgrade.

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[dcz702]

Awesome DCZ! Yes, the more work we can do on our own instruments, the more money we have to spend on new gear! I hope the new axe treats you right. What kind did you get by the way?

i got a prs Toerno, same one another member got, and i got a great deal on it that couldnt be passed up. it was the 1 of two left in vegas called evey store, and since sam ash only had one left and it was the first edition toreno thats sat in the shop they gave it to me for 50% of what it was orginally selling for.
and by the way im in the middle of the entire set up proccess again, DOH! after completing the set up 11-49 didnt do it for me 6th string just didnt feel right so ran to the shop and now setting up with DR DDT 11-54 should be done soon though

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[AK Rich]

i got a prs Toerno, same one another member got, and i got a great deal on it that couldnt be passed up. it was the 1 of two left in vegas called evey store, and since sam ash only had one left and it was the first edition toreno thats sat in the shop they gave it to me for 50% of what it was orginally selling for.
and by the way im in the middle of the entire set up proccess again, DOH! after completing the set up 11-49 didnt do it for me 6th string just didnt feel right so ran to the shop and now setting up with DR DDT 11-54 should be done soon though

Half price! Killer score man, well done! As far as setting it all up again , oh well man , practice makes perfect! that's a couple hundred bucks you probably saved to go towards a new stomp box or something. Nice looking axe too! As well as the other 2 in the line up. Looking sharp!

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This post has been edited by AK Rich: Apr 8 2014, 05:35 AM