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Posted by: Bondy Aug 24 2008, 08:19 AM

Ok guys iam rubbish at theory and i struggling here mainly because i dont know where to start.

I want to learn a certain song which I have been told is ohh I will just paste what he sent me.

{The main theme is in C# minor, the heavier part (I tend to call it chorus) is in B minor and so...}

Now my question

Q:Is that the the key of the song or the scales if it is the key how do I figure out which scales to use I have partially learned the song by ear and if they are the scales they dont match what i have learned.Which when i play matches the recording Iam confused LOL???????????

Posted by: DeepRoots Aug 24 2008, 08:47 AM

I'm not sure what the main key is for this song- but for our purposes we know there is a modulation and there are two keys to use- C# minor and B minor.

The fact that the sections modulate (change key) means we'll need to use seperate scales over each part.

Luckily, when someone says "Its in B minor" and you think ("what scale?!?"), the question has already been answered. Using B minor here would be great and is your safest bet. Depedning on the chords used- you could be a bit adventurous and use some of the "minor-sounding" modes, but as we don't have any information on the chords used it's a safe bet to stick with B minor (the chorus/heavier part).

Another thing to note is that the minor pentatonic scale contains notes from the minor scale, with some subtracted. Minor scale has this formula, 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7, minor pentatonic has 1 b3 4 5 b7 (you can see that the 2 and b6 have been left out). So, you can also use B minor pentatonic, as there won't be any out notes- we just saw that all th enotes from B minor pentatonic are contained in B minor.

So your answer, with the amount of information we have been given we know that:
In the main theme we can use C# minor and C# minor pentatonic
In the chorus/heavier part we can use B minor and B minor pentatonic.

Note that trying to use one scale over both passages won't sound so good...

Posted by: Bondy Aug 24 2008, 10:31 AM

Thanks deep think i got it the song is Cascading mirrors if that helps http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=110687399

Posted by: Emir Hot Aug 24 2008, 11:24 AM

I agree with DeepRoots. I would give very similar explaination. The pentatonic approach is always the simplest solution if you want to be sure that your notes work over the given chord. Later you can play with modes and see if you can make it more interesting.

Posted by: Muris Varajic Aug 24 2008, 11:49 AM

I would just add to take a look at chord progression as well,
not just root key or first chord in progression(which sometimes isn't root at all).
With fully analyzed progression you will easily get the idea of scale
cause almost every progression(diatonic ones at least) is made from certain scale.

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Aug 24 2008, 01:14 PM

Some great answers - I'd like to take what DR and Muris said and weave them together just a little more if I may ..

As DR said, with the info we had. those scales are your choices.

As Muris said, the chord progression if Diatonic will give you the scales as well.

If for instance, its really in C# Dorian, the chords played would be different to if it were in C# minor - the likliehood is that unless your friend is a theory head he will equate it starting with a chord of C# minor as meaning its in the key of C# minor - most of the time this works, but sometimes not, and the only way to be sure is to analyze the progression as Muris said.

However, DR gave the most practical answer, so do what he said and just see if it sounds ok!

EDIT:

After listening to the link, yes, Minor or Penta will work great for both sedctions

Posted by: Bondy Aug 24 2008, 03:01 PM

Thank you very much for your reply's guys very helpfull

Posted by: kjutte Aug 25 2008, 05:21 PM

SOO much agreed. if you learn the majorscale, and its 7 chords (1 3 5 note each box for its triad), you'll have a much better understanding, and you'll be able to pull off more creative work.

Also I would like to add that you should always ask for a chord progression.
Knowing the chord progression expands your choices ALOT, it will also allow you to understand how the track's fitted together.

C#minor can mean Aeolian, phrygian, Dorian and melodic minor (though it's most likely aeolian, which is supposed to be put as "Natural minor".
Hope this isn't too confusing