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Posted by: IsakGrohn Sep 8 2010, 08:35 PM

Hi
This is my first post here so bear with me.
I have been interested in buying a new guitar for a while now (a Ibanez rg8570z) to be precise.
But recently a friend of mine contacted me asking me to record some of my ideas into a decent demo, since his friend runs a small Indie label/studio and he wants me to send my meterial to him.
So i started thinking maybe its a good idea to get a good amp instead, seeing as all i own is guitar rig3 and a couple of crappy solid-state amps.
The guitar i got now is a Fender made in mexico strat, with a Dimarzio chopper in neck and a Dimarzio super distortion in bridge.
So i woukd like to hear some opinions here, would my strat played through a good marshall or hughes & kettner top sound better then say
a ibanez rg8570z run through guitar rig?


I attached a sound sample of my strat played through guitar rig.
Thanks in advance
Isak.

 2a.wav ( 9.55MB ) : 223

Posted by: Todd Simpson Sep 8 2010, 08:49 PM

I wouldn't worry as much about the amp as I would about the music itself. Your buddy knows gear is the easy part believe it or not. The hard part is making compelling music. I"d record something for him and get it to him as soon as you can. The "Amp Vs Software" debate is eternal and in the end it comes down the person and the situation, etc.

So don't miss this chance while you try to work out which amp/gear to buy. Record with what you have on hand and impress him with your musical ability. He can always put you in a studio or what not if he likes what he hears.

Todd

Posted by: ZakkWylde Sep 8 2010, 08:52 PM

The amp will ALWAYS make the biggest diffrence because it makes up the biggest part of the sound. A great guitar will sound better than your MIM Strat but it can't outrun it's limitations set by a cheap amp or computer program...

It really comes down to how and where you play guitar!

Getting a high quality Tube halfstack won't do you any good if you are only playing at home with bedroom loudness levels. For home use small amps and modeling programs are great and if you are going to only play at home for a while you are better of with a new guitar (Ibanez J Custom is a great choice, just got one myself^^)

If you are playing with a band and have some gigs in the near future you are better up with a real amp.

Posted by: sted Sep 8 2010, 09:09 PM

Sim programmes are fine fo home use and recording but dont cut it live, its always a trade off between the cost/volume and inconvenience of a great amp versus thesound quality of a great amp sim, you could look at things like the new Blackstar HT-1 as a compromise between a real tube sound at very low volumes though as well.
As for the guitar, well, hell would freeze over before I traded a strat for an ibanez RG but thats just me I suppose!

PS your recording sounded great mate, nothing too much wrong there!

Posted by: IsakGrohn Sep 8 2010, 10:05 PM

Thanks for your opinions guys.
I totally agrre with with you Todd that the music itself is the most important part, and that i should put most energy into that.
i was hoping however to increase the quality of the mix by improving my gear a little bit.
I will get some money in a few days and I have some saved up, enough for say a dsl50 or something in that pricerange, but i wont have enough money for a guitar for months, so that is why i started scrathing my head a little bit.
As for playing volume, I currently live in a dorm so i cant play in my room. but i have been talking with the dormitory personel about using the basement for recording so i could probably play it cranked for the recording.

Thanks again

Isak

Posted by: MickeM Sep 8 2010, 10:12 PM

Recording at home, or? Blackstar starts selling a 1W amp starting in october, ranges up to brutal. You don't need more to make a great recording, less is better for studio.

Posted by: fkalich Sep 8 2010, 11:03 PM

What is more important, eating or drinking? Probably I would miss drinking the soonest, but both are essential enough to just figure I have to have both. Just the way it is. If you take care of one, the other will be there right quick still biting you on the ass.

Posted by: tonymiro Sep 9 2010, 11:01 AM

IMHO for a demo then GR3 would be fine but for anything that is intended for commercial release you need an amp.

However, an amp is not the only thing here - you need to track/record it at a quality that is good enough to be used in a mix. That may well mean that you need to go to a proper studio where the amp can be run hot if its a tube amp and tracked through good microphones and preamps and a signal chain that is properly gain staged and able to provide an accurate, high quality recorded take. You may be able to do this at home but it will depend then on setting up the chain accurately and appropriately to get the best possible recording that you can. Don't assume that it can be 'fixed in the mix' .

As your friend has a studio maybe your best bet here is hire an amp and do the recording in his studio with him tracking.

Posted by: maharzan Sep 9 2010, 11:20 AM

its not about gears people.. So, I would suggest you to focus on the skill than gears at this point.

Posted by: Bogdan Radovic Sep 10 2010, 03:11 PM

I don't think it would be worth investing in amp if you don't have good means of recording it - that means :

- good sound card
- good preamp + microphone
- good room where you play loud and that is not basement where there will be noise all around
- recording skills

Generally its hard to record amp at home with better results then you would get from software like Guitar Rig.

So I would suggest concentrating on what you do need at the moment. If you feel its a new guitar - go for it. It may provide different/possibly better sound but it won't for sure give your overall mix better sound as that really depends a lot on your recording/mixing skills.

Posted by: IsakGrohn Sep 11 2010, 07:59 AM

Hi
So i have been taking your words into consideration, and you all make good points.
I am still unsure however what to do with my money.
I have been trying to track some rhythm guitars now for a couple of days and the results just keep frustrating me, either its too muddy or too thin sounding, and i cant seem to get guitar rig up to a volume level im satisfied with without clipping.
I played some of my riffs through both a Marshal VM and a JVM a couple of weeks ago at the store, and it sounded really good( probably different story recorded though)
So im a bit unsure about what road to take.
For recording I currently use Sonar 8, M-audio delta 2496, a crappy alto mixer and a shure sm57 & shure sm58, I have recorded my other amps previously so its not the first time i mic up a amp, my other amps suck however.
I have also considered recording at my moms villa in the suburbs where i can crank in total scilence.

Thanks again.

Isak

Posted by: tonymiro Sep 11 2010, 11:24 AM

For electric rhythm guitar it's common practice to cut all below 90 Hz to keep it out of the way of the kick drum and bass guitar. Also it helps to do a gentle eq cut in the 200-450 Hz range as this can help reduce the mud. It's also possible that the room acoustics- if you're recording an amp rather than via GR - are contributing to the mud through poorly dampened reflections. If that's the case experiment with where the amp is particularly in relation to how far it is from corners and rear wall. Also look in to how you are panning the rhythm guitars in the mix.

Posted by: IsakGrohn Sep 11 2010, 11:48 AM

Ok, thx alot for the tip.

Isak

Posted by: Bogdan Radovic Sep 30 2010, 01:18 PM

Hmm do you have possibility to rent a good amp (possibly one you wish to buy or similar)?

Or find a friend who has it. Then you can try recording better amp in your room/studio and see if you like the results. This will be a good test since you said you tried recording amps but they were not very good. IF you manage to record well a live amp and like the sound - get a new amp from the store and which sound you like.

Posted by: Fran Sep 30 2010, 03:58 PM

QUOTE (fkalich @ Sep 9 2010, 12:03 AM)