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Joe Kataldo
post Jan 7 2008, 06:43 PM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Jan 7 2008, 06:16 PM) *
IMHO don't waste money on poor AD/DA. A bargain end pre with an AD/DA card might look like great value for money but essentially garbage in results in garbage out.

Cheers,
Tony


Thats why I said "Stay away from toneport stuff or any digital" with this kind of stuff all included all ready cheap digital and fast you have everything but sound quality!


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Andrew Cockburn
post Jan 7 2008, 06:47 PM
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Thanks TOny for your usual thorough response smile.gif

Did I say Fostex? I meant Focusrite smile.gif I know Mic amps are usually a weak spot in the recording chain, so welcome the input that I might benefit from a higher end Pre tan the twintrak.

A/D wise I believe I am well served by my EMU1212m (the m somehow stands for "really quite good converters" as opposed to the non-m models of the same card) so I am hoping I am ok in this area. The EMU "m" converters always get great reviews, but let me know if you think I am off base here - as things do move on smile.gif

I think my next purchase will be a Behringer 8 in/out to expand my studio to 10 ins and outs - I need more options for reamping and monitoring etc. Whilts I probably wouldn't use the Behringer seriously for micing (it is pretty cheap after all and its MIC amps probably aren;t the greatest) I am hoping that this will be a cost effective way of increasing my line ins and outs without spending a fortune - I can hook this up to the 1212m via ADAT lightpipe to get a single 10/10 IO capability.

I may well add a high quality single input path preamp to go with the K2 for important things like lead vocals and guitar micing.

I'd appreciate any advice on the above strategy smile.gif


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Jan 7 2008, 08:38 PM
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Just on the AD/DA Andrew - not sure if I can make this understandable, so apologies in advance. AD/DA depends on the signal to noise ratio, bit resolution and accuracy (quantisation error, linearity and jitter). For a DAW a resolution of 24 bit is standard for most AD/DA. Food for thought for anyone recording above or below 24 bit wink.gif .

As far as I know for a linear AD conversion system you need 5-6 dB per bit - so an SNR of 120-140 dBA. If you look at the stats for higher end AD/DA convertors (RME, Apogee, ADC etc) they generally offer SNR over 110dBA, usually 110-120. (The further you go below 140 the lower your SNR, obviously, but also I'd assume the more you move from linearity.)

Quantisation error occurs as any ADC has a finite resolution and at a certain point becomes dependent of the input signal which results in distortion. This distortion may of course be 'removed' via dithering but dithering will reduce the SNR further.

All ADCs have a degree of nonlinearity - the extent to which output differs from input. Higher end ADC are calibrated to account for their non-linearity (plus higher grade components and assembly reduce non-linearity).

For jitter - again largely unavoidable - you need to minimise jitter via an ultra low jitter clock. Without an ultra low jitter clock it isn't possible to achieve accurate 24 bit recording. Lower end ADCs may not have a suitable clock.

So for ADC it's not really enough to talk about the SNR - there are other issues to take into account and so the figures are usually about resolution (normally 24bit); SNR; THD; and, internal clock jitter.

One of the odd bits, to me anyway, is that ADCs do sound different. An RME will sound different to a Rosetta and an ADC etc. Regardless of this the higher end ADCs tend however to resolve much more detail, sound more open and be more accurate then the poorer quality ADCs - which is what I think Joe means above. It's a bit like hi fi - a good high end cd player sounds more detailed etc at least in part because the DAC is of high quality. As ever though the catch 22 is you pay your money and make a choice. Is 2000ish USD for a mid range Apogee Rosetta ADC worth the cash...

How well the EMU stacks up here I don't know (never seen the specs for it) - I do remember it getting good reviews as a sound card though. If to date your happy with it then I'd say keep it for now. You can always chuck money at it at a later date smile.gif .

Cheers,
Tony


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Joe Kataldo
post Jan 7 2008, 09:37 PM
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Exactly if you have some money to invest, the first place is AD/DA converter, all-equipped solution usually has very cheap converter, and as stated before they have everything but quality (sound quality dynamics, clearness etc. etc.)

Joe kataldo


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Andrew Cockburn
post Jan 7 2008, 10:12 PM
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Thanks guys, I have been happy with the quality, and at the time it was billed as having the same AD converter as one of the protools rigs which can't be bad. Of course you don;t know if anything is better until you hear it, but I think I will stick with it for now at least.


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Acoustic Guitars : Taylor 816ce, Martin D-15, Line6 Variax Acoustic 300 Nylon
Effects : Line6 Helix, Keeley Modded Boss DS1, Keeley Modded Boss BD2, Keeley 4 knob compressor, Keeley OxBlood
Amps : Epiphone Valve Jnr & Head, Cockburn A.C.1, Cockburn A.C.2, Blackstar Club 50 Head & 4x12 Cab
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