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> Re: Kirk Hammet Solos
Viz
post Jan 1 2008, 09:44 PM
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...and he has also won guitar player of the year awards, so clearly he has some stand alone reputation as well. Any case, I did not make this thread to rank Kirk or list awards, but to show Kirk in a different light. If someone who reads this does another take through the more unusual Metallica songs and finds a solo they like, then thats more like it.
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botoxfox
post Jan 1 2008, 10:39 PM
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,

This post has been edited by botoxfox: Apr 22 2011, 09:04 AM


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Viz
post Jan 1 2008, 10:43 PM
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Indeed, I think it doesn't even feature Slash at all, for example. In make opinion he (Kirk) should be even higher up after all the historic solos he created, though, obliviously that was not what you where fishing for.

This post has been edited by Viz: Jan 1 2008, 11:33 PM
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SLASH91
post Jan 1 2008, 11:18 PM
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Yeah, lists like that are total crap.


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FretDancer69
post Jan 1 2008, 11:33 PM
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Kirk was one of the main guitarists that inspired me to pick up the guitar and become a great guitarrist, so i thank him for that.

His solos from "Ride The Lightning" to ...And Justice For All are really amazing, most of them.


QUOTE (Guitarman700 @ Jan 1 2008, 10:13 AM) *
Kirk studied under joe satriani and learned NOTHING. THAT is why i cant respect him.


Nothing? Could be, but i doubt it. Im sure he learned theory and other stuff that helped him in his playing, that he wanted a different approach in his playing than Satriani's playing is something very different.

QUOTE (jacmoe @ Jan 1 2008, 02:06 PM) *
Exceptional enough to earn him 11th place in RollingStones Magazine's The 100 Greatest Guitarists of All Time. smile.gif


That list is complete crap. mad.gif

This post has been edited by FretDancer69: Jan 1 2008, 11:41 PM


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Viz
post Jan 1 2008, 11:35 PM
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Well said.
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shellshock1911
post Jan 1 2008, 11:57 PM
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I don't really like Kirk Hammett that much, I respect your guys opinions and I used to love him myself but after listening to Megadeth and Marty Friedman...nevermind. Anyway the main reasons I don't that much is because he was only good and original for like one album, Master of Puppets. On KEM, every solo sounds the exact same, they all used pentatonic scales, same keys everytime, E minor, and use that tiny bit of wah that is an annoyance. For example here are some licks you will find in nearly every Kirk Hammett solo (played on various points of the fretboard.) Choose E minor, crank up some wah, use tremolo picking, double stops, a lot of bends, some of these licks below and you've basically got a mini Kirk Hammett style lesson here.

Check out Four Horsemen or Disposable Heroes for this one

|----------------------------------------------------|
|----15b-15b-15brp12-15-15b-------------------|
|----------------------------------------------------|
|----------------------------------------------------|
|----------------------------------------------------|
|----------------------------------------------------|

Every single Kirk solo one of these licks multiple times, check out No Remorse, Four Horsemen, Creeping Death, etc, basically every solo. Play these using triplets.

|---15p12--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|------------15-12-----12--15p12--------------------------------------------------------
|--------------------14--------------14-12-------12--14p12-----------------------------
|----------------------------------------------14---------------14--12-------12----------
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------14-------14\\\\\
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Or he just changes it a bit and ends up copying Iron Maiden licks. Triplets as well.

|--15p12-----12--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|----------15-----15--12--15p12-------12-----------------------------------------------------------------------
|------------------------------------14-------14--12--14p12------12---------------------------------------------
|----------------------------------------------------------------14------14-12-14p12-----12---------------------
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------14-----14-12-12\\\\\\---
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Another generic lick that Kirk Hammett uses to end basically every solo and Dave Mustaine even is guilty of using wayyyyy too much (listen to Burnt Ice lol.) Something like this, it can be modified in various ways, but basically the same thing everytime. Use sixteenth notes. After a few times, move it up the neck couple of steps, do it again, until you get to the 22nd fret, bend it a couple of times.

|--15p12------12-15p12----12--15p12-----12--15p12----20 seconds later...---22b-22b-22b-----|
|-----------12-------------12-------------12-------------------------------------------------------------|
|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

One more lick that is in No Remorse and also used in like 10 other solos by him. Similar lick in Master of Puppets

|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|----5p2-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|----------4-2----2-4-4brp2----2-4p2----------------------------------------------|
|---------------4--------------4----------4-2----------------------------------------|
|-----------------------------------------------4-2-----------------------------------|
|----------------------------------------------------5--------------------------------|

EDIT: He was also good and used original licks on ...And Justice For All.

This post has been edited by shellshock1911: Jan 2 2008, 12:13 AM


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shellshock1911
post Jan 2 2008, 12:18 AM
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I watched the beginning of this video that you posted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKiormZsvEg...feature=related

Look at 00:48-00:58. He isn't making up new stuff, he just took a section from the Creeping Death solo and used it again, the exact same way, no changes at all. If you study his solos you will see they are all basically the exact same except on the two albums I mentioned.


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FretDancer69
post Jan 2 2008, 12:53 AM
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Kill Em All solos were written by Dave Mustaine.


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shellshock1911
post Jan 2 2008, 01:15 AM
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QUOTE (FretDancer69 @ Jan 2 2008, 12:53 AM) *
Kill Em All solos were written by Dave Mustaine.


I know he wrote a lot of the riffs but I ghouth the solos were changed up a lot by Kirk Hammett. Look at the solos on Ride the Lightening, obviously written by the same person, and Dave didn't write those. Not saying Dave Mustaine is creative and original, because he is not. They both are just random pentatonic shred everytime, best example is Hangar 18 where Marty and him take turns soloing, Dave just does random crap petnatonic everytime and Marty does cool melodic and original licks. I'd say Dave's solo writing influenced Kirks a ton.

Dave writes way better riffs though

Metallica riffs everytime

|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|--2-------------------------5---------------------------7-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|--2-------------------------5---------------------------7-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|--0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-3-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-5-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-etc.----

This post has been edited by shellshock1911: Jan 2 2008, 01:19 AM


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Chris Evans
post Jan 2 2008, 01:24 AM
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laugh.gif I think youve just got it in for poor old Kirk

the same can be said for many guitarists, I`ll add another , Dave Murray-iron Maiden, same solo over and over again, but hey who cares, I think he`s great, he cuts it for the band and the fans (me for one) love it! cant poor old Kirk be analysed in a positive way? give the guy a break, hes in Metallica! a rather successful metal band I`d say? I wish I was in Metallica wink.gif


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shellshock1911
post Jan 2 2008, 01:29 AM
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QUOTE (Smells @ Jan 2 2008, 01:24 AM) *
laugh.gif I think youve just got it in for poor old Kirk

the same can be said for many guitarists, I`ll add another , Dave Murray-iron Maiden, same solo over and over again, but hey who cares, I think he`s great, he cuts it for the band and the fans (me for one) love it! cant poor old Kirk be analysed in a positive way? give the guy a break, hes in Metallica! a rather successful metal band I`d say? I wish I was in Metallica wink.gif


I see what you are saying, but one of the biggest things for me in music is originality. When they just use the same pentatonic licks every single time, why would I want to listen to more than one song. Basically one song should not be able to sum up a guitarist, even though for Kirk Hammett, it basically does. And yea Dave Murry is basically the same, but the reason I like them is because they actually have riffs other than chug chug chug powerchord chug chug powerchord chug chug.


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Fsgdjv
post Jan 2 2008, 01:32 AM
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I agree that Kirk has done a lot of generic and just plain boring stuff, but he has also written some of my favourite solos. For example, the intro solo to fade to black is really good and it's not just some old licks recycled, it's got everything I want in a good solo. I admire Kirk Hammet a lot, but I still agree that a lot of his solos are quite uninspired. Nevertheless, I think he's a great guitarist.


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Chris Evans
post Jan 2 2008, 01:46 AM
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QUOTE (shellshock1911 @ Jan 2 2008, 12:29 AM) *
I see what you are saying, but one of the biggest things for me in music is originality. When they just use the same pentatonic licks every single time, why would I want to listen to more than one song. Basically one song should not be able to sum up a guitarist, even though for Kirk Hammett, it basically does. And yea Dave Murry is basically the same, but the reason I like them is because they actually have riffs other than chug chug chug powerchord chug chug powerchord chug chug.


Yup but thats Metallica mate, Maiden are the same, its a different style but its the same old riffs over and over again, the same galloping Steve Harris bass line running through it, dont get me wrong, I actually like both bands, and Maiden a lot more so, but why crucify the guy? he`s playin in the style of the band, the band like it the fans like it, lets be positive about him thats all I was saying smile.gif sure not everyone likes his style, and obviously you dont and thats great, we cant all like the same things, but lets not go overboard on the poor bloke, your just never going to convince everyone that he`s rubbish smile.gif

I am 100% with ya on it, I know exactly where you are comin from and you made your point, you dont like Kirk laugh.gif

This post has been edited by Smells: Jan 2 2008, 01:47 AM


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erik
post Jan 2 2008, 03:11 AM
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I think its pretty stupid to judge kirk for using the pentatonic scale alot. Why not? Let's take the intro-solo on No Remorse from Kill 'Em All. LOTS of pentatonics, but still it used to be my favourite solo. Yeah you can be all theory-geek and argue all day long that it doesn't take a genius to make a solo like that, but still, that solo got additude! It kicks ass, It's just so energetic and raw, and it fits PERFECT with the rest of the song. (I know Dave Mustaine wrote that solo, but Kirk changed it alot, and I wouldn't really give Dave much credit for it..). Kill 'Em All is actually my favourite album because it's the most agressive and raw album. ALL music is not suppose to have lots of theory.

He have also made more theoreticly advanced soloes on the later albums, which are also great and fits into the songs that are less heavy than the earlier ones. But he haven't made anything REALLY theoreticly advanced. You know why? Cause it's not their style. This is the 80's thrash metal, it's not supposed to be that way. (talking about the early albums).

I think Kirk is an exelent guitarist who has done alot for metal. Just look at metallica's fans. If Kirk was as bad as many people say he is, he wouldn't be in one of the most succesfull metal-bands ever.

This post has been edited by erik: Jan 2 2008, 03:26 AM
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SLASH91
post Jan 2 2008, 03:53 AM
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It's like people always bashing Yngwie because he uses the same scales alot in his music. I don't really care though. As long as it sounds good and not like a recycled version of a previous song. I really only feel like Kirk has a few solos that sound similar.

As to the chug, chug, chug in most of Metallica's songs: that's what you'll here in many thrash metal bands. Metallica might not be the most creative in using that method, but it still sounds good, to me at least. smile.gif

QUOTE (jacmoe @ Jan 1 2008, 02:06 PM) *
Exceptional enough to earn him 11th place in RollingStones Magazine's The 100 Greatest Guitarists of All Time. smile.gif


WTF!!!
I just took a good look at it, and Kurt Cobain, John Frusciante, and the guitarist from the White Stripes are all in the top twenty. EVH is like # 79 laugh.gif laugh.gif


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shellshock1911
post Jan 2 2008, 03:56 AM
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QUOTE (erik @ Jan 2 2008, 03:11 AM) *
I think its pretty stupid to judge kirk for using the pentatonic scale alot. Why not? Let's take the intro-solo on No Remorse from Kill 'Em All. LOTS of pentatonics, but still it used to be my favourite solo. Yeah you can be all theory-geek and argue all day long that it doesn't take a genius to make a solo like that, but still, that solo got additude! It kicks ass, It's just so energetic and raw, and it fits PERFECT with the rest of the song. (I know Dave Mustaine wrote that solo, but Kirk changed it alot, and I wouldn't really give Dave much credit for it..). Kill 'Em All is actually my favourite album because it's the most agressive and raw album. ALL music is not suppose to have lots of theory.

He have also made more theoreticly advanced soloes on the later albums, which are also great and fits into the songs that are less heavy than the earlier ones. But he haven't made anything REALLY theoreticly advanced. You know why? Cause it's not their style. This is the 80's thrash metal, it's not supposed to be that way. (talking about the early albums).

I think Kirk is an exelent guitarist who has done alot for metal. Just look at metallica's fans. If Kirk was as bad as many people say he is, he wouldn't be in one of the most succesfull metal-bands ever.


Nothing wrong with using the pentatonic scale a lot. Look at SRV, he makes great use of the pentatonic scale. It is the fact that he uses the same licks in every solo and they sound the exact same, that I don't like too much. And the only difference between the pentatonic minor scale and regular minor scales is the taking away of the 2nd and 6th. That isn't much theory at all, just two notes that have been taken away.

EDIT: And yea that Rolling Stones list is a joke lol. There is really no list that can accurately place ALL guitarists, there is too many styles and genres. Jazz guitarists don't go in heavy metal guitarists lists, and vice versa.

This post has been edited by shellshock1911: Jan 2 2008, 04:02 AM


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FretDancer69
post Jan 2 2008, 08:27 AM
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QUOTE (shellshock1911 @ Jan 1 2008, 08:56 PM) *
EDIT: And yea that Rolling Stones list is a joke lol. There is really no list that can accurately place ALL guitarists, there is too many styles and genres. Jazz guitarists don't go in heavy metal guitarists lists, and vice versa.



yeah, thats a sad list


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Viz
post Jan 2 2008, 08:58 AM
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its great to see such am interesting debate developing! My major reason of supporting Kirk though, is because he creates metal solos that does *not* sound generic, sounds unique to that specific song, and that sounds melodic. Creeping Death, Fade to Black, One, Blackened etc. I agree that he has a lot of standard pentatonic stuff going on but I'd say many metal guitarists has even more in their solos, especially Megadeth, quite obvious when you look at the fact that Dave created the Metallica solos that sounds the most generic (and most shred in them). Dave and Marty are awesome guitarists though, no arguement there.

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swingline
post Jan 2 2008, 09:10 AM
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QUOTE (SLASH91 @ Jan 1 2008, 06:53 PM) *
It's like people always bashing Yngwie because he uses the same scales alot in his music. I don't really care though. As long as it sounds good and not like a recycled version of a previous song. I really only feel like Kirk has a few solos that sound similar.

As to the chug, chug, chug in most of Metallica's songs: that's what you'll here in many thrash metal bands. Metallica might not be the most creative in using that method, but it still sounds good, to me at least. smile.gif
WTF!!!
I just took a good look at it, and Kurt Cobain, John Frusciante, and the guitarist from the White Stripes are all in the top twenty. EVH is like # 79 laugh.gif laugh.gif

Wow thats pretty screwed up. blink.gif

Plus 16 Johnny Ramone blink.gif
85 Randy Rhoads
86 Tony Iommi of Black Sabbath
I'm surprised Billy Joe of Greenday isn't number 1. laugh.gif

This post has been edited by swingline: Jan 2 2008, 09:20 AM


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