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> Don't Understand How People Just "improv"
KloCkWorXx
post Jan 4 2008, 12:51 PM
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i actually no nothing about theory at all and ive improv ed alot of my solos (when i found out what an octave was id start by adding 12 frets from the lowest chord note!!) kinda sad.. haha so if it was something with an open E id start on the 12 fret n do something there.. sounds stupid but worked being a beginner... im actually learnin the theory now which is boring but im just hoping it makes me better.. your ear will tell u if it fits or not.. if u get stuck just bend the note till it sounds good , or retreat with a quick fade out haha.


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mattacuk
post Jan 4 2008, 12:53 PM
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Nice avatar by the way wink.gif


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"The Fundimental Difference between Paul Gilbert and Buckethead is that Paul Explores the Good side of the force, while Buckethead Explores the Dark Side of the Force" :)
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KloCkWorXx
post Jan 4 2008, 01:01 PM
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haha who wouldnt like a masked nun-chucking techno dancing sweep picking 8 fingertapping guitarist for there avatar?? haha i like your signature !! "huh huh u like it?, yeah i like it, its good"


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Muris Varajic
post Jan 4 2008, 03:03 PM
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Patterns are really nice way of thinking while jamming or improvising. smile.gif
But you shall also think of notes imho,
specially when you have more chords in progression,
just to avoid laying down on "wrong" notes. wink.gif


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Jan 4 2008, 03:12 PM
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I believe that improvisation is a very complex mental process. It all starts with the melody inside your head. And it finishes off with the same melody on your guitar. There are a whole array of skills needed to do an impro but the most important one is to know your freatboard and have developed you ear to that extent that you can translate the notes from your head to the ones on the fretboard. This goes something like this:

Note in your head -------- note on the fretboard

so it is obvious that you need to know where are the notes on the fretboard that you hear in your head. For example think of just two notes and try to play them on the neck. repeat it a number of times and you'll see that you can play the notes with more ease.

The other thing is that during your playing and learning process you acquire some licks and skill needed to play certain melodies. So you already have some premade melodies in your head learned form other musicians and you r own playing. Combine that together and melodies of your own and make you own impros easier and easier as playing becomes second nature. And remember all of this comes after a lifetime of hard work and practice.


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shellshock1911
post Jan 4 2008, 04:46 PM
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Alright thx for all the informative posts. I've already learned a lot just from this. I had never even heard of the idea of recreating a melody you hear in your head until now.


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jacmoe
post Jan 4 2008, 05:18 PM
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I agree that - ideally - an improvisation should be something coming from your imagination. And that it should be something which can be sung.

However, it takes a long, long time to get there - if you ever get there, that is.. huh.gif

Play your scales to death all over the neck.
Then start playing those scale boxes in different patterns and rythms.
Both the diatonic and the pentatonic stuff.

Each time I get a new pattern written into my finger memory, my improvising sounds less like playing scales up and down.

Know enough patterns and you'll start to get really intimate with your guitar fretboard. laugh.gif

A lot of these patterns are used a lot in music, especially as fast runs from one *big* note to another - just listen to Page and Clapton and Slash and Hammett, and..
That's not stealing - ask any great guitarists. smile.gif


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at lights end
post Jan 4 2008, 05:34 PM
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im not brilliant at improvising on a guitar.

but im about grade 6 on sax and can improvise ok. i just think what key or scale im in, and remember what notes would sound bad (the ones that aren't in that key.), then just play, anything up high, down low, middle, low again jump to high...e.t.c. and add trills and things. It would be more difficult to do on guitar though as there are a lot more frets, and strings than there are keys on a sax and you'd have to remember the fretboard. it depends how you've learnt the guitar, i've been using tabs for guitar, wheareas i learnt the sax in standard notation.


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jacmoe
post Jan 4 2008, 05:41 PM
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Forgot to say that arpeggios is a great way to start sound more melodic! smile.gif


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QUOTE ("Steve Vai")
Start by playing something - a bend, a riff, a scale, a song - very slowly; if you make a mistake, start over; do this over and over, until you can play it flawlessly - and I do mean flawlessly - many times in a row. Next, gradually increase the tempo. Eventually you'll be flailing like a madman.
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mattacuk
post Jan 4 2008, 06:54 PM
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I find this thread one of the most interesting ones ive come across !! smile.gif Its really good to get an insight into how each of us go through this process wink.gif


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"The Fundimental Difference between Paul Gilbert and Buckethead is that Paul Explores the Good side of the force, while Buckethead Explores the Dark Side of the Force" :)
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shellshock1911
post Jan 5 2008, 06:46 AM
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Alright guys I did the "jamming" things yall talked about yesterday and I just wanted to show you guys something I came up over a backing track with since it is like my first day trying this out.

The key I thought was cool was F minor and the chord progression I came up with was F5-Eb5-F5-Db5. Well since this is minor chord progression it is basically Fm-Ebmaj-Fm-Dbmaj. Tempo was about 154. The scales I used were Natural Minor and Harmonic Major so I could keep the same pattern but over a major chord. I came up with some licks but the main one I thought was cool was this one, I'll write in tab because I don't have a recording machine. All of these are sixteenth notes so it is pretty fast.

Fm
|----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|-------13-11-13-14-13-11-------------13-11-13-14-13-11-------------|
|-10---------------------------13---10--------------------------13--------|
|----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
Ebmaj
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|-----11-9-11-12-11-9-----------11-9-11-12-11-9-----------------------|
|-8------------------------12--8------------------------12------------------|
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|

Then same thing as first pattern because the chord goes back to Fm, then the same pattern but starting on Db.

Yep so thats it, I came up with some other random stuff but that is the one I wanted to show because it was my favorite and I wanted to make sure I'm on the right tarck. I thought it sounded kinda like an melodic interlude that progressive guitarists like Michael Romeo like to do before launching into an insane solo.

This post has been edited by shellshock1911: Jan 5 2008, 06:47 AM


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Kosei Kubota
post Jan 5 2008, 06:56 AM
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I am a bad example of a classical guy, who can't really improvise well, and this thread is very interesting.

I agree with idea of "melody in your head".
When I play any piece someone else composed (like Bach), I am singing it in my head while playing.

I think all musical ideas come from singing and/or dancing.

I can't sing aloud or dance while I'm playing, so I sing in my head at least.
wink.gif

This post has been edited by Kosei Kubota: Jan 5 2008, 06:57 AM


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mattacuk
post Jan 5 2008, 09:42 AM
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QUOTE (Kosei Kubota @ Jan 5 2008, 05:56 AM) *
I can't sing aloud or dance while I'm playing, so I sing in my head at least.
wink.gif


I just had this fantastic image of you singing, playing and danceing around the room alltogether Kosei ! laugh.gif laugh.gif biggrin.gif


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mysql> SELECT * FROM master_name WHERE ((firstname = 'Paul') AND (lastname = 'Gilbert'));


"The Fundimental Difference between Paul Gilbert and Buckethead is that Paul Explores the Good side of the force, while Buckethead Explores the Dark Side of the Force" :)
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Muris Varajic
post Jan 9 2008, 12:19 AM
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QUOTE (mattacuk @ Jan 5 2008, 09:42 AM) *
I just had this fantastic image of you singing, playing and danceing around the room alltogether Kosei ! laugh.gif laugh.gif biggrin.gif


laugh.gif laugh.gif

Looks interesting indeed biggrin.gif


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Chris Evans
post Jan 15 2008, 02:23 PM
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QUOTE (shellshock1911 @ Jan 4 2008, 04:22 AM) *
Yea so I've been looking around the collaborations lately I just want to know? How do yall come up with this stuff? I know it is a pretty broad question but I just don't get it. I can recite theory from a textbook 24 hours a day, I knowledge ridiculous amounts but don't know how to put it to use?


This is a little late in coming Shellshock, I planned to have it posted a week (ish) ago, its just a rough guide, but hopefully will help with your original questions too smile.gif check it out HERE


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Rhoads To Madnes...
post Jan 18 2008, 10:16 PM
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If you can record your improv sessions and save them. This is very important for a couple of reasons. First you can go back and to them and be able to hear the improvements you have made after a few weeks, months or years of practice. Second when you play something really cool while improving youll have a record of it. Maybe you meant to throw in one of Romero's licks but the timing was a little different or you landed on a different note, but it sounded great. You can go back and duplicate "your" new lick! This will really help you develop your own style. Hope this helps
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JasoninOhio
post Jan 19 2008, 02:25 AM
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The easiest way to improv is to record everything you play. Then, sit with your guitar and play over the lead/rythmn licks while listening to what you've already recorded. Sooner than later, you will find notes that will sound better to you than just the scale notes you've already played. Believe me, it really works. It takes time but, it does 2 things for you. It teaches you notes and phrasings as well as training your fingers to hit certain spots while playing.

This post has been edited by JasoninOhio: Jan 19 2008, 02:26 AM


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jammer91
post Jan 19 2008, 10:52 AM
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Hi shellshock,

Ive got EXACTLY the same problem.
1- How to put scales to use?
2- How to put licks into scales?


Butyoure better off than me because you know your chord progressions and stuff and how to use them, while i just consider them more for a acoustic chordy song.

I know im being close minded, but i think im doing fine till now.

Here are some real troubleing questions because ive got the scales bit down but now i need to know how to put licks into them.

Firstly when a the backing track is set to a key (say B ), do i have to use a certain scale in the key of B or just any scale or mode in the key of B?

Secondly, Can licks be used in any key or any scale or are they limited to certain scales or keys? (For example if you look at the lick of the day, you usually notice that Kris specifies what key and scale you can use the lick. Why cant we just put in the lick into any key or even any scale)?

How do you seperate licks from a ton of notes? For example im now wroking on this lesson:
http://guitarmasterclass.net/solo-guitar/b...eno-rock-licks/
If you take a look at the tab of vid one you see loads of notes and tak to me doesnt seem like a single lick (more like many licks). How do i spot out a single lick i want to improvise with?

My final problem is moving licks around. I dont exactly under stand you to move a lick up and down the fretboard because the intervals change. What i do i simply put the lick anywhere in the fretboard and try and figure out where the notes go.


Is there any lesson on GMC to help me with my problem? How did you guys overcome these issues.

This post has been edited by jammer91: Jan 19 2008, 11:32 AM


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Chris Evans
post Jan 19 2008, 12:45 PM
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Hey jammer smile.gif

following up your PM and this post, this is exactly what I`m following up on, its hard to explain into text (well I find it is) I`ll try and do something as soon as poss that may help you, the idea is taking licks from lessons and putting them into your improv`s, some of the advise above is well worth reading through, a lot of it comes with time tho mate smile.gif


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zoom
post Jan 19 2008, 02:17 PM
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rolleyes.gif Hi Guys

Just thought I throw in my 2 bob's worth. Man this question about what to play is so relavant to me.
I feel though that I've just turned the corner and I'm just starting to get some good idea's.
GMC has taught me so much.
I like melodic sounding stuff alot and alot of these sounding lessons I have found are arpeggios/chords like 1st 3rd and 5th maybe with a 7th or 9th. So I've found heaps of places on the neck to play these arpeggios and I'm really injoying it.
then maybe after an appeggio I'll play a straight scale type pattern then maybe a blues lick and some bends.
I've still got a long way to go but for me appeggios have been a great breakthrough. I can see light at the end of the tunnel.
One of the things Kris said which helped me sign up was he thought he would never be a great player because he wasn't gifted but he can play
and this place has tools and great people to help me and you.
I've been hare for almost a year now and I am stoked.
Don't give up. Get addicted and practice hard.
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