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Ear-training
Ben Howell
Jan 9 2008, 07:31 PM
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From: Bath, Uk
Hi Guys,

Just a quick question. Im currently doing ear training at the moment, with the ultimate goal of being able to hear phrases in my head and translate them (quickly) onto the guitar. This is obviously not an overnight thing, but im just wondering your methods of this training?

Im currently using interval training which i find fairly easy to be honest, but hearing the intervals over changing chords (particularly jazz changes) is rather difficult as for each chord you have to treat it as a new tonal center to hear the intervals correctly if that makes sense.

Cheers for the input,

-Ben

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This post has been edited by benhowell: Jan 9 2008, 07:36 PM


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Ivan Milenkovic
Jan 9 2008, 08:15 PM
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Well, I first started with some diatonic modes ear training and intervals. Them moved to triad chords, and now working on 7th's. Maybe thats the way to go, I don't know. See what suits you the best man.

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This post has been edited by Milenkovic Ivan: Jan 9 2008, 08:23 PM


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Muris Varajic
Jan 9 2008, 08:25 PM
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Nice topic to start Ben,cheers smile.gif

I haven't had any "method" so far since I've used ear from my very beginning.
Learning tunes from tapes etc.
And you pointed it well,it's not something to upgrade over night,
I used to figure out small and easy solos for couple of hours,was really tough ohmy.gif
Singing might help as well,solfeggio is surely one of my favorite classes in music education. wink.gif

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Ben Howell
Jan 9 2008, 08:34 PM
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Nice replys guys-Thanks.

Its come to a point in my playing where ive realized REALLY GOOD ears are ultimately what matters, especially from an improvisational point of view.

Transcribings a favourite of mine, but can be quite hard especially with some Scott Henderson stuff im working on ohmy.gif .

As a side point-how much do you guys rely on your ears in an improvisation aspect, in a ratio perhaps to pattern, shapes etc?

Cheers,

-Ben

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Muris Varajic
Jan 9 2008, 08:39 PM
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I believe about 60-70% of my improvisation are some lick and patterns I learned before
and then combined "in a walk" while improvising.
But yeah,transcribing is the must for ear training,
actually it's the same thing as learning tunes by ear
except you're not writing it down,only playing. smile.gif

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Ben Howell
Jan 9 2008, 09:41 PM
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Interesting Muris-thanks for your answer.

Do you know of any free slow-down software out there btw? Im using amazing slow downer but its very limited.

Thanks,

-Ben

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Muris Varajic
Jan 9 2008, 09:56 PM
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QUOTE (benhowell @ Jan 9 2008, 09:41 PM) *
Do you know of any free slow-down software out there btw?


Have no idea really blink.gif

I know that Media Classic Player can slow things down 1 and 2 times but it affects tuning as well,
1 time means octave lower and 2 times even 2 octaves lower sad.gif

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Hisham Al-Sanea
Jan 9 2008, 10:50 PM
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good ben keep going

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Ivan Milenkovic
Jan 9 2008, 11:12 PM
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You can slow down audio in cubase or nuendo with time stretch, but not much of a quality when slowed down too much.

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Gerardo Siere
Jan 10 2008, 12:05 AM
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About changing tonal centers in jazz it´s a problem neer tried to write to paper jazz solos, but ussualy you can write them down like they where in only one tuning and then you just have to check for the acidentals, you´ll have to check for harmony and form to help you out, and discards those chords "ignored" by the jass soloist.
For slowing software I use an old version of one called Transcribe! but it isn´t free, I has in a smal interface stuff you can do with any daw (the most important is looping the frase you want to learn). If you don´t want to spend money go for a freeware daw (digital analog workstation like cubase cakewalk sequoia logic etc).
About eartraning I´m kinda untrained right now, but ten years ago I was so heavely drilled with excersices that I could transcribe a lot of stuff without the guitar, but I didn´t know why I deduced It was a II V7 I or what ever. It become kind of second nature. Now I heve very little of it couse there where 10 years of lazynes from transcribing stuff everyday.
First you must play and understand what structures you want to play (chord triad), for playing them on guitar must use some kind of visualization, but i recomend an absolute aproach. Let´s say you have absolute aproach with CAGED chords, or for example with a A chord with the Barre in V position. Now let´s look fpr a Bb chord, if you go first to the A chord and then a fret sharper you´re lossing valuable time, you must know them absolutely lika a pianist would do, if you know the notes better. For being confortable with Bb must play whole tunes and do your harmony excercises in Bb that´s the way.
Please use real music for excersices, I mean music that has a given form and a style, you like a style or a technique try using it, it doesn´t have to be a piece of art. 8thet´s the reason you see art students copying paintings at the museums).
Learning harmony will help you in recognicing funtional harmony, and color harmony, and must know that also exist chords which reason are just the justifications of diferent lines in the parts.
Transcribing is goog becouse of variety.
Style is good because you get a narrower range of dificulties and you absorb and learn what are paractice of "goog style" or cliches etc.
Good book with lot of drills for harmony is Berklee´s four volume course, for a classical aprouch you can use Walter Piston´s Harmony.
In my personala case I had at the university a year of ear training about hearing individual structures (intervals, modes, chords, rythms) and the next year you have to put them all together like a real book sheet. It was far more easier the second year aproach the structurs you have heard helps you to deduce the ones you didn´t hear so well.
What still I lack of is the abillity to memorize fast what I have to put in paper, my mind keeps inventing a new melody that isn´t what really have sound.
Another good prctice is sight-singing.

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Jerry Arcidiacon...
Jan 10 2008, 12:18 AM
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I found very useful to tab jazz solos from other instruments (sax, trumpet, etc...)
As said, patterns can be very useful but at the end they are a kind of limitation if you use patterns only.
You can find new patterns from other instruments! I didn't know anything about playing a sax but I'm quite sure that some sequences are easier than others to play, like extended intervals and so on.
It's a great challenge to tab a fast solo by Coltrane, Parker and many others.

One thing that works for me it's to sing a small lick (also in mind) and imagine the fingering. Then you can play what your are thinking and you can hear if you're playing this lick or not.


QUOTE (Muris @ Jan 9 2008, 09:56 PM) *
Have no idea really blink.gif

I know that Media Classic Player can slow things down 1 and 2 times but it affects tuning as well,
1 time means octave lower and 2 times even 2 octaves lower sad.gif


I forget...
I use sometimes Windows Media Player. It can slow 50% of the original speed without changing the pitch.
Very useful when some student asks for a fast solo you didn't know! laugh.gif

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Muris Varajic
Jan 10 2008, 02:45 AM
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QUOTE (Jerry Arcidiacono @ Jan 10 2008, 12:18 AM) *
I use sometimes Windows Media Player. It can slow 50% of the original speed without changing the pitch.
Very useful when some student asks for a fast solo you didn't know! laugh.gif


In WMP,how??? huh.gif

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Jerry Arcidiacon...
Jan 10 2008, 09:35 AM
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My version is in Italian language, I didn't find a way to change to English.

Attached Image

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Juan M. Valero
Jan 10 2008, 10:13 AM
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Please remember me in few days that I upload one program that I have !!! I cannot upload it now because I don't have it in this computer !!!

Please PM it, ok ??? bye I'm late !!! hehehe

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Muris Varajic
Jan 10 2008, 10:58 AM
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QUOTE (Jerry Arcidiacono @ Jan 10 2008, 09:35 AM) *
My version is in Italian language, I didn't find a way to change to English.

Attached Image


Found it Jerry,thanks! biggrin.gif

It does have small sound lost but pitch is the same. wink.gif

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Ben Howell
Jan 10 2008, 12:34 PM
Jazz/Fusion Instructor
Posts: 250
Joined: 7-May 07
From: Bath, Uk
Thanks guys for all the input. Some food for thought definately.

-Juan, il pm you now if you have some software that helps with transcribing?

Thanks again,

-Ben

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Juan M. Valero
Jan 10 2008, 04:09 PM
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yeah, I created this lick with the direction of the program !!

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...showtopic=10586


It's an awesome ear training program !!! biggrin.gif

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Joe Kataldo
Jan 10 2008, 04:26 PM
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I use EarMaster...but it's not free sad.gif

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Juan M. Valero
Jan 10 2008, 09:20 PM
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Oh, and how it works ?? if it posible take a look at the Solfege and coment what is better and if it's a good idea to pay to get the EarMaster (now I have more than enought with Solfege but maybe one day I will need more biggrin.gif)

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Jerry Arcidiacon...
Jan 11 2008, 04:41 AM
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QUOTE (Muris @ Jan 10 2008, 10:58 AM) *
It does have small sound lost but pitch is the same. wink.gif


It's normal... some data is missing when music is slowed.

You are at GuitarMasterClass.net


Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content!

Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content!


--------------------

::: Main Gear :::

Guitars: Washburn N4 Vintage | Washburn N2 | Washburn WI67Pro | Washburn WG-587 | Washburn EA20B
Amps: Laney GH50L (head) | Laney GS410 & GS212IE (cabinets) | Rocktron PROGAP Ultra (rack preamp) | Rocktron Velocity 150 (power amp) | Marshall VS230 (combo)
FXs: Rocktron Intellifex + custom pedalboard (check my video demo)
Other: Shredneck | Intellitouch PT10 tuner
Picks: Esseti Picks

Software & Recording Gear: Cubase 4 | Overloud TH1 | Mackie Onyx 400F | EZdrummer | Korg Pandora PX4D


-------------------------------------------------------

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Check out my video lessons and instructor board!
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