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MickeM
post Jan 31 2008, 09:34 AM
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QUOTE (Muris @ Jan 31 2008, 02:13 AM) *
Maybe I didn't understand,what is wrong,my personal opinion about him as unique(lead) player? smile.gif

Hehe yes muris, in this case I think it's safe to say your personal opinion is wrong wink.gif

I get your point and surely this goes for many guitarists that maybe wouldn't have made it with support of a unique band. Led Zeppelin as a whole were unique, so Page was noticed. In this case maybe the Yardbirds helped a bit but that "plant school" for musicians is a story of it's own and some really interesting coincidents in switching between guitarists that all became huge.

Same with AC/DC I'd say, would Angus have been noticed if it hadn't been for Bon Scott's and brother Malcolm?
Did Ian Gillan help Blackmoore to become noticed?

Someone like Eddie Van Halen I belive would have made it anytime, anywhere end if he had had me as a drummer in his band dry.gif

It's just personal opinions. Just as muris I can be wrong too laugh.gif

Hope the initial "urgent message" was taken so some OT discussion is allowed wink.gif


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Mackietao
post Jan 31 2008, 10:34 AM
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As far as personal opinions goes is very hard to "be wrong". You might lack some important knowledge, but it´s still your opinion from what you know. It´s really hard when it comes to taste to judge.
As in Muris case I do not really think he lacks a lot of knowledge. I´m not saying any of you others is wrong, but it somehow comes down to opinion unless is pretty much proofable.

Me personally have only just heard the name Jimmy Page, mostly on guitar sites. Never knew any song he played until know when someone mentioned stairway to heaven. I´ve actually played that song back in the days when I was playing guitar (now I restarted since 2-3 months ago). And I´ve took a class in music history. Course was divided into 30´s , 40´s , 50´s , 60´s music, 70´s music and so on.. And then divided in to Rock music, blues, etc. Led Zepelin was brought up, never Jimmy Page. (that was just an anekdote, I have no personal opinion really in the matter since I know nothing about him).


Easier to judge when it´s stupid stuff like we all notice a Porce 911 and some dude claims that´s not a car, it´s a smaller mountain.
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mattacuk
post Jan 31 2008, 11:12 AM
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Well you know . In all honesty Jimmy Page as a guitarist doesent do it for me in the slightest.... but that doesnt mean he i not an excellent guitarist - its just he dosent "float my boat" as it were laugh.gif wink.gif

Music is so diverse and subjective to the listener not everyone is going to feel the same way about an artist as the next fan! biggrin.gif Whats Important is that the fans enjoy there music, and in this case maybe enjoy an "In the Style of Jimmy Page" lesson wink.gif



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Tomotoms
post Jan 31 2008, 11:18 AM
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I love Led Zeppelin.

Jimmy might not have the amazingly tight technique of Vai, Gilbert or Batio, but he can take partial credit for their playing as he has influenced EVERYONE!!!!

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MickeM
post Jan 31 2008, 11:23 AM
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QUOTE (mattacuk @ Jan 31 2008, 11:12 AM) *
Well you know . In all honesty Jimmy Page as a guitarist doesent do it for me in the slightest.... but that doesnt mean he i not an excellent guitarist - its just he dosent "float my boat" as it were laugh.gif wink.gif

He was a studio musician prior to Led Zeppelin, or Yardbirds even, and I don't know if studio musicians are hired on criterias that they can apply different styles without adding their own coloring. So to say - Make it sound like the band you're recording with no Page in it.
Just as a parallell to own style vs being a good musician in general


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Kristofer Dahl
post Jan 31 2008, 01:50 PM
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Agreed - we need a Page lesson urgently! ohmy.gif There is a fire! laugh.gif


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Coram Deo
post Jan 31 2008, 06:05 PM
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MAN!! Did not think this post would get that kinda response. I will say this, Muris has a point, Pages biggest talent is his song writting, but lets be honest, we can LEARN speed and technique but God givin talent your born with! I should have said we need a Zepplin lesson. Page is an awesome guitarist but if he were to play on another artists album I might not know it unless I saw his name on it, that I'll give you, but when HE writes it....its GOLD. And I generally agree there is no wrong opinion, as long as the giver isn't just stupid, and the last time I watched a Muris lesson, stupid did not come to mind....WOW, HOLY CRAP, and DAMN I'LL NEVER BE ABLE TO DO THAT, came to mind but not stupid. To be honest I was hopeing Muris would be the one to do it.
There is one thing that kinda bothered me, one of the posts said they did not think Page was worthy of a style lesson and then went on to say that they did not even know who he was 5 months ago. Now I surely don't know every guitar player ever, but if I don't know much about a player, I sure as heck would not share my opinion about him or her. I guess being a blues player myself, I hold a high value on the people who set the bar before me.


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rokchik
post Feb 1 2008, 12:29 AM
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QUOTE (Coram Deo @ Jan 30 2008, 05:29 PM) *
I am as much to blame as the next guy, but I just realized that of all the "in the style of" lessons we don't have a Jimmy Page lesson. This should be fixed ASAP, and if I was good enough I would do it but since I suck I'll leave it up to one of our instuctors. This is a very serious issue, we don't want to upset the rock gods and put a jinx on the whole thing! ;-) ALL HAIL LED ZEPPLIN!!


I love the way you think man!

We are definatley in need of a Page lesson for sure. I know a few of Gabriels lessons have some Page influence, Rocker Riff 2 comes to mind, but Jimmy is surely worthy of his own "in the style of" lesson. Thanks for bringing this up man.

rok

PS: almost forgot....ALL HAIL LED ZEPPELIN smile.gif
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Nick334
post Feb 1 2008, 07:39 PM
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I think Gab is the man for the job smile.gif


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wylde guitar
post Feb 1 2008, 10:32 PM
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I have no idea why it took this long for someone to realize we didn't have 1 lesson in style of Page!!! I'm kickin myself lol.
When someone asks my top 5 fav. guitarists hes right up there


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blindwillie
post Feb 1 2008, 11:08 PM
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QUOTE (Muris @ Jan 31 2008, 06:45 AM) *
Ouch,my post made some real turbulence huh.gif

No worries Muris, that's a good thing. Makes people think biggrin.gif
Of course I disagree with you though.

If you are saying that it's the solos that defines a guitarist then in my opinion you are wrong. Listening to solos that's not really part of the song (showing off) is just as exciting as looking at how excellent someone can handle a toothbrush.

One of the things that make Page great is that he does the job, he completes Zeppelin and makes it what it is. He's not overdoing it (well, except for some far out solo's, which where exactly right at the time). Just like Gilmour it's exactly the right amount of noise or silence at exactly the right time. Lot's of variations when he repeats a riff or a verse.
In Zeppelin he played this way because that was the right way. In Yardbirds the sound was completly different, and the right thing there. In my opinion Page where outstanding from all the guitarists at the same time.


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JVM
post Feb 1 2008, 11:26 PM
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Yes... a Page lesson is the most needed in the style of right now ohmy.gif And I agree I think gabe could nail it, but I think theres probably a few other guys here who'd do a great job with it too! And we need a clapton one O_o

Personally, I think Page is one of the greatest guitarists to have lived. His stuff may be pretty generic nowadays, but he is the reason why that sounds generic. He's extremely influenced by the blues, but it was he and Hendrix mainly, among others, who made rock and roll what it is today. Clapton is a great blues player. Santana is off doing his own thing. But I think it was hendrix and page, and others like Keith Richards and such who really defined rock and roll for the next generation to come along and take up the mantle.

Just my opinion wink.gif


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Muris Varajic
post Feb 2 2008, 01:53 AM
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QUOTE (blindwillie @ Feb 1 2008, 11:08 PM) *
No worries Muris, that's a good thing. Makes people think biggrin.gif
Of course I disagree with you though.

If you are saying that it's the solos that defines a guitarist then in my opinion you are wrong. Listening to solos that's not really part of the song (showing off) is just as exciting as looking at how excellent someone can handle a toothbrush.


Of course I didn't say that!!!
I sad his solo playing isn't that unique for my taste and view,
like per example Knopfler,Jeff Beck,Blackmore,Hendrix etc ,
these guys have their own VEERY powerful trademark,
even today which is quite amazing,you try to copy them a bit and it'd be sooo obvious.
I putted more light on his solo parts cause most the In Style Lessons here are solo stuff,correct me if I'm wrong.
And finally,we are ALL aware of the fact that soloing is just a small piece of being guitarist,musician generally.
Composing,innovations,generation leader, I would say those are major parts of Page's greatness! smile.gif



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Andrew Cockburn
post Feb 2 2008, 03:12 AM
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All great guitarists must be seen in the context of their era.

Is a model model T ford a good car by todays standards? No, but it was the most popular car of its era.

Just because the craft of guitar playing has moved on and is today judged by different technical standards, does not invalidate the contributions of earlier players. Jimmy Page is not a Vai or Pettrucci, but in his day he was the equivalent - a dude who was breaking the rules and playing stuff the like of which noone had ever heard before - that has to count for something.

To say nothing of the technique versus musical feel argument - older guitarists like page played slower, less notes, but perhaps they were closer to the music as a result. I realize that this comment may be contravrsial as we all have different opinions, but I am trying to make the point that faster and more modern techniques are not necessarily better, because at the end of it all, the judgement of music is in how it makes us as listeners feel, not hom many notes we play, or how flawlessly we play them.

For that reaosn, I see players like Page, Clapton & Hendrix to be just as deserving of the guitar god label now as they were in their time, modern developments not withstanding, but at the same time you have to give props to the newer guys for taking the art to an entirely new and unbelievable level - its all part of the same thing whichever way you cut it.

Ok, I'm done ...


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inertia
post Feb 3 2008, 01:47 AM
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I'm a bit surprised that some people don't think he had great leads, everyone is entitled to their opinion though for sure smile.gif

If you have not checked out a lot of his stuff, check out his live playing on the song remains the same live, specifically the No Quarter and Dazed and Confused solos, they are breathtaking and not just a mindless flurry of notes.

Granted a lot of his leads were were pentatonic based, some of his other songs, such as his acoustic pieces and songs like the Rain Song, are just pure magic IMO, so far outside the realm of typical sounding music at the time.
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Muris Varajic
post Feb 3 2008, 01:58 AM
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QUOTE (inertia @ Feb 3 2008, 01:47 AM) *
I'm a bit surprised that some people don't think he had great leads, everyone is entitled to their opinion though for sure smile.gif


And once more I've been misunderstood smile.gif
Page's leads ARE great,I wasn't talking of greatness(you define it) but of uniqueness,a special stamp.
Many players have great and powerful leads but without major personality imho.


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shellshock1911
post Feb 3 2008, 02:06 AM
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Page took a new view of rhythm guitar and thus made tons of cool riffs and rhythms. However his soloing is pretty much just basic pentatonic licks, nothing special really.


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OrganisedConfusi...
post Feb 3 2008, 02:28 AM
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I will forever dislike Led Zeppelin as I think Deep Purple kicked their ass back then. Jimmy Page is average at best whereas Blackmore was something really special.


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Robwylde
post Feb 3 2008, 02:36 AM
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Every guitarist has an opinion about every guitarist they have heard. Page has always done it for me. I'd say he is one of the reasons I started playing guitar. In Muris defense I believe he has a point. Some guitarist just have that sound and style of playing that if another guitarist tried to play as there own everyone would say hey he's copin that from so and so. Page doesn't stand out that way, he has other great tangible's. I've gotta go play some Black Dog cool.gif
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blindwillie
post Feb 3 2008, 02:28 PM
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QUOTE (OrganisedConfusion @ Feb 3 2008, 02:28 AM) *
I will forever dislike Led Zeppelin as I think Deep Purple kicked their ass back then. Jimmy Page is average at best whereas Blackmore was something really special.

Hehe, I would say the exact opposit.
Don't get me wrong. Led Zeppelin and Deep Purple are my top 2 favs. But I do put Zep before DP, being the more inventive and "wider" of them. The same with Page/Blackmore. Page being the interesting of the two, and Blackmore, as skilled as he may be, turning into some easy-listening sell out, quite boring actually. I wouldn't call either of them avarage though.


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