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post Apr 18 2008, 06:53 AM
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Winds Of Plague!!!!!

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PassionPlay
post Apr 20 2008, 07:38 PM
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Well, in Denmark there are enough metalcore freaks biggrin.gif
But because we only live 5.000.000 people here the scene isn't big enough to have some really sweet metalcore/hardcore and yeah.. even heavy bands.

we've got:

Mnemic
Illdisposed
As We Fight
Volbeat

All more or less known in the rest of the world, but they aren't big in Denmark. it's sad
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Duncan
post Apr 20 2008, 11:46 PM
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I dislike pretty much all metalcore. Hardcore I can give or take, mostly give. The Shape of Punk To Come though is a killer album.
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VinceG
post Apr 21 2008, 12:54 AM
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for all the people confusing hardcore "metal" to the real hardcore, which is hardcore punk... well this is a footage of one of my fav hardcore bands.

Millions Of Dead Cops


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The Uncreator
post Apr 21 2008, 12:55 AM
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QUOTE (VinceG @ Apr 20 2008, 03:54 PM) *
for all the people confusing hardcore "metal" to the real hardcore, which is hardcore punk... well this is a footage of one of my fav hardcore bands.

Millions Of Dead Cops


This has bothered me since i first heard the term, Most people arent even aware of Hardcore Punk, or i should just say Hardcore.
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VinceG
post Apr 21 2008, 12:58 AM
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QUOTE (The Uncreator @ Apr 21 2008, 04:55 AM) *
This has bothered me since i first heard the term, Most people arent even aware of Hardcore Punk, or i should just say Hardcore.



Yep, when you mention hardcore, its mostly become associated with the tough guy attitude ala Pantera or Hatebreed or something. Sometimes, I talk to people about the combination of hardcore and metal, all they could come up with is Metalcore, and not even know that Thrash and Crossover was the breed of fusing Hardcore and Metal.


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Nobody
post May 7 2008, 02:41 PM
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Well actually you aren't right about the styles. The thing you call Hardcore Punk like Agnostic Front, Discipline, Throwdown, Cro-Mags, Hitman and many more is called Old School Hardcore. That's the american equivallent to the appearance of Oi! in the UK.

Then you have the New School Hardcore which are as Hardcore as the older bands. For example Hatebreed, Born From Pain, Sick Of It All, Barcode, Death Before Dishonor, Madball and etc.
I myself prefer Old School Hardcore but it is a mistake to say that it is the only Hardcore..

VinceG, Metalcore is the most recent combination of Hardcore and Metal. But both are very complex genres with many subgenres so we should definately say that Metalcore is a combination of New School Hardcore and (Melodic) Death Metal.

For Thrash and Crossover I would disagree slightly. Thrash is a child of Punk. Hardcore hasn't been so popular at that time because it has also been a new born child of Punk. So I would say that Thrash and Crossover are a mixture ot PUNK and Metal.

Cheers,
Hristian

This post has been edited by Nobody: May 7 2008, 02:47 PM


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Saoirse O'Shea
post May 7 2008, 02:59 PM
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QUOTE (VinceG @ Apr 20 2008, 11:54 PM) *
for all the people confusing hardcore "metal" to the real hardcore, which is hardcore punk... well this is a footage of one of my fav hardcore bands.

Millions Of Dead Cops


MDC - great choice and thanks for reminding me of them Vince smile.gif .

I sort of get lost in the terminology/distinction/differences here so I'm probably wrong but others that spring to my mind are:

Black Flag
Henry Rollins
Fugazi
Minutemen
Red Kross

and I guess pretty much all who were/are on SST or Discord?

One distinction, for me rightly or wrongly, is that there is a leftist politics to the groups and record labels, whether anti-capitalist or more widely, albeit that not all the fans were necessarily interested or agreed with this. This politicised element kind of reminds me of the late great Crass and a few others from the UK punk scene..

Cheers,
Tony


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OrganisedConfusi...
post May 7 2008, 03:07 PM
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That's my idea of the genre also Tony. The classic stuff smile.gif


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Nobody
post May 7 2008, 03:17 PM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ May 7 2008, 04:59 PM) *
MDC - great choice and thanks for reminding me of them Vince smile.gif .

I sort of get lost in the terminology/distinction/differences here so I'm probably wrong but others that spring to my mind are:

Black Flag
Henry Rollins
Fugazi
Minutemen
Red Kross

and I guess pretty much all who were/are on SST or Discord?

One distinction, for me rightly or wrongly, is that there is a leftist politics to the groups and record labels, whether anti-capitalist or more widely, albeit that not all the fans were necessarily interested or agreed with this. This politicised element kind of reminds me of the late great Crass and a few others from the UK punk scene..

Cheers,
Tony


MDC were one of Kurt Cobain's favourite groups so we know where Grunge came from too. :]
But most of the bands you mentioned are just Punk :]

Thanks for mentioning Crass because I've always loved them. Not being an Anarchist but they really have had much to say and that's why I admire them. (Just played White Punks On Hope).
And politically there have been many distinctions.
Mainly there were the left wing - Anarchist Punk like Crass, Dead Kennedys and such which were the founders of the punk scene as the world knows it. (Sex Pistols were influenced by Crass, that's why they actually aren't the founders of punk.) Also there are the White Power kind of bands which are the contrary of the Anarchists - meaning they are The Nazi. Founding band is probably Skrewdriver
There are also some subgenres like R.A.C. - Rock Against Communism, a division of the White Power type of Punk. A.F.A. - Anti Fascist Association which are against the Right Wing guys and it's all so stupid.

But all this stuff is just into Punk. It didn't change much the later scenes that derived from Punk. But on this Left Wing, Right wing Crass again have the best said thing:

Punk was once an answer to years of crap,
A way of saying no where we'd always said yep.
But the moment we saw a way to be free,
They invented a dividing line, street credibility.
The qualifying factors are politics and class,
Left wing macho street fighters willing to kick arse.
They said because of racism they'd come out on the street.
It was just a form of fascism for the socialist elite.
Bigotry and blindness, a marxist con,
Another clever trick to keep us all in line.
Neat little labels to keep us all apart,
To keep us all divided when the troubles start.

Pogo on a nazi, spit upon a jew,
Vicious mindless violence that offers nothing new.
Left wing violence, right wing violence, all seems much the same,
Bully boys out fighting, it's just the same old game.
Boring f****** politics that'll get us all shot,
Left wing, right wing, you can stuff the lot.
Keep your petty prejudice, I don't see the point


Crass - White Punks On Hope

Cheers,
Hristian

P.S. I think that soon when I have time I'll write in the GMC Wiki :]


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Saoirse O'Shea
post May 7 2008, 03:50 PM
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Cheers Hristian,
and you're absolutely correct that some were indeed Far Right.

Crass positioned themselves perhaps as more an Anarchist group (though what form of anarchy is debatable - anti capitalist and pro green and radical feminist maybe?). That and they were very much in to people questioning and thinking for themselves rather then just accepting what they're told from whoever:

'Movements are systems and systems kill. Movements are expressions of the public will. Punk became a movement 'cos we all felt lost, but the leaders sold out and now we all pay the cost. Punk narcissism was a social napalm, Steve Jones started doing real harm. Preaching revolution, anarchy and change as he sucked from the system that had given him his name.' (Punk is Dead - Crass)

I still remember a Crass gig that didn't go much more 10 minutes before a group of Far Right attacked the group btw. Crass though were great to catch live, albeit sometimes a bit shambolic smile.gif but lots of energy and commitment. I think they got banned from one, or more, venue/s though for refusing to charge a set admission fee on the policy that you paid what you could afford - something that Fugazi did as well.

'White Punks on Hope' great song btw - one of my fav Crass one's as well.

Cheers,
Tony


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Nobody
post May 7 2008, 10:29 PM
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Cheers Tony,

I really envy you for seing Crass live. I remember one older thread where you had listed the bands you've seen live and that's a really impressive list. You surely have seen the legends of your time :]

As far as I know Crass' Anarchysm has been agressive and anti political. Something like Michail Bakunin's ideology. They had also been organisers or protests and organised attacks. Though I don't like Anarchism it's a pretty romantic idea and that's why many people believe in it. I think I'm just a very big realist to be able to believe in Anarchism.

BTW I like Crass because they showed how punk should be - dedicated to an idea. Not what most of the punks now use it as - a petty excuse for being a heroine addict, or just to look "cool" because being a punk is against the mainstream..

As you mentioned feminism I thought to add some more genres here which are derived from Punk and Hardcore. There are some very cool bands(mostly female fronted) from the Riot Grrrl movement which is also a subgenre of Punk.
And two more Hardcore subgenres - Straight Edge and Beatdown.
(I should definately write a Wiki article because I doubt that someone will understand something from these posts here :] )

Cheers,
Hrisian

P.S. this thread has become a Hardcore And Punk thread but I think it should be so because Hardcore And Metalcore don't have much in common besides that they have some familiarities in sounding.


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Davidian
post May 12 2008, 11:38 AM
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That's no problem at all, Nobody!
I like to read these things smile.gif
Keep on going!

And for the rest of you guys: Thanks a lot! I'll check out all the other bands you mentionned!


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Saoirse O'Shea
post May 19 2008, 02:45 PM
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Only just back from doing some work abroad Hristian - so apologies only just seen this smile.gif but agree 100% that Crass saw all politics as a form of organisation that limits and straitjackets us in to a mindless conformity.

Anarchy of course is a bit like music - lots of different forms from Right Wing Libertariansim through to Leftist Anarcho Black Flag (not the group but the group's politics parallels it quite a bit - politically more 'revolution by any means necessary'). Crass's Anarchism sort of crosses across several different forms to my mind but Bakunin does seem theoretically to be a good point of conformity for them from his 'absolute rejection of all authority' - Kropotkin maybe another good influence (society without imposed authority) as Crass don't, to my mind, argue for no society but for no authority?

BTW - something on Riot Grrrl bands sounds great to me smile.gif particularly if it moves beyond Hole/Babes in Toyland (nothing against either but there's so much more biggrin.gif ).

Maybe there's some room for talk about Anarchist influenced bands like The Durriti Column (who I think got their name from Buenaventura Durritti - the Spanish Anarchist though maybe not much other then a name wink.gif ), Red Emma (Emma Goodman), The Minutemen and so on smile.gif .

All this talk of Crass, Anarchy and Riot Grrrl sort of brings to mind Emma Goodman, 'if I can't dance I don't want to be part of the revolution' smile.gif .

Cheers,
Tony

ps anyone interested in some of the minutae of Anarchy - there's a great book called 'Demanding the impossible - a history of Anarchism' by Peter Marshall.

And sorry Davidian for also drifting off topic.



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kyldeee
post May 19 2008, 03:06 PM
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QUOTE (PassionPlay @ Apr 12 2008, 02:59 PM) *
36 Crazyfists is really nice yeah ! ohmy.gif

That's propably the only Hardcore band that I've heard of smile.gif


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PanicProne
post Jun 24 2008, 10:15 PM
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One more suggestion. Swedish boys Path of No Return are a brilliant band and a great live act! They've toured with parkway drive and so on. So check em out!
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