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Owen
post Feb 11 2008, 01:02 AM
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And what is it to you?

Some may think of this as an odd question, but is music just enjoyable noise, a showcase for talent or is it a expression of your innermost emotions and feelings, what does music mean to you?

Can music have "soul", or is this just an empty phrase, is it just something that we, as people, are naturally drawn to?

The reason I ask, is that I've had a "late-night" discussion with my dad, the sort of ramblings he gets on when he's had a bit too much wine, decides he's going to close his eyes and impart his wisdom of the world onto any poor person who happens to be in close proximity, and according to him, tonight, "jazz has no soul, but blues does", apparently blues is just raw emotion, but jazz is an empty void of theory worship. I think his belief is that minimalism is beautiful, but I disagree, I dont think that technique is useless, or that simplicity is the answer to everything. I think learning new things shows talent and determination to gain multiple musical skills in your arsenal and be varied. Damn you Pavel I havent been working on those sweep arpeggios for nothing! tongue.gif

In some ways this whole discussion is also relevant to the arguments which have arisen on the topic of shredding over the months and years though, does someone who plays at 250bpm necessarily have less "feeling" than someone who rumbles up a few picking licks on a the old A minor Pentatonic?

Is emotion just simple melodies, is music just a distraction and are there to many questions in this topic already?

GMCers, I ask you these questions, and await you to impart any wisdom you may (or may not wink.gif ) have! biggrin.gif


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FretDancer69
post Feb 11 2008, 01:13 AM
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i love Jazz, but i agree, it has too much theory involved!!

About playing fast, i mean, id like to, but i wouldnt like to play fast always, just a bunch of notes at extreme speed that can be barely percieved by YOU and the rest, i think that that doesent involve feelings, other than the same countless of hours put into it, imo.

But of course, people have different opinions towards that.


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Owen
post Feb 11 2008, 01:16 AM
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QUOTE (FretDancer69 @ Feb 10 2008, 04:13 PM) *
i love Jazz, but i agree, it has too much theory involved!!

About playing fast, i mean, id like to, but i wouldnt like to play fast always, just a bunch of notes at extreme speed that can be barely percieved by YOU and the rest, i think that that doesent involve feelings, other than the same countless of hours put into it, imo.

But of course, people have different opinions towards that.


Ah, but why?

Maybe I ask too many questions, but in what way does fast music not have feeling?

This is why I'm asking, its all to easy to make a statement, but to back it up is more difficult, it requires thought, I want to see why people think such things smile.gif


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JVM
post Feb 11 2008, 01:21 AM
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IMO the soul is put into music before your fingers start flying. It's like language. You can have a huge vocabulary with nothing to say, or you can have a very minimal vocabulary and make an unassailable point. And then some people just aren't good at saying what they mean, whether they have a great vocabulary or not.

I think a lot of the shredders people say have no soul, very obviously have an amazing vocabulary. The problem is a lot of them aren't good at saying what they mean, or they don't have anything worth listening to to say in the first place, if I haven't taken my analogy too far. Of course there are exceptions, or I wouldn't have a paul gilbert picture in my signature.

A lot of blues and other people who don't have great vocabulary have made due by learning how to speak in a way that gets their point across, and people like that.

After that it all falls down to preference. Some people like to listen to people with less complicated vocabulary. Some don't. Some, like me, fall in the middle and get to enjoy the majority of what we hear biggrin.gif


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The Uncreator
post Feb 11 2008, 01:23 AM
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Music is life to me. Its what i breathe, its what i create, its what helps me get through the toughest of times, its a place i can experience anything, do anything, be whatever i want, create what and whoever i want. Music is indefinite, its and endless source of expression for me, It got me through the darkest times, and it creates the best of times.

I live to write it, and to experience it. Because there is nothing like a good show, go there, make 2,000 new friends, all standing in the front row, arms around each other, never met before, but your standing there as a family, no worries, no problems, Heaven is what i call it, just singing along with your favorite musicians. Which proves, to me at least. That music is the universal language, an artist creates something, and it can be interpreted in a million different ways to suit the individual.

Words can never express fully what music is to me. smile.gif

This post has been edited by The Uncreator: Feb 11 2008, 01:24 AM
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OrganisedConfusi...
post Feb 11 2008, 01:32 AM
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Feel is in all genres. It is the songs you know that the artist put there all in to. Without the songs and music the artist wouldn't be whole. It's a device for letting their deepest emotions out and that is why it gets such strong reactions from people but also why people don't tend to like every single genre. You have to relate to their feeling, their view of the world. It is why covers are usually bad because to the originating band the song means something but to the band that is covering it, it may not mean the same to them. Like a love song or a song on the artists life or experiences.

I couldn't live without music. It means a lot to me. Whether it be Jazz, Rock, Punk, Blues, Grunge, Psychodelic, Country, Fusion etc.


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Tuubsu
post Feb 11 2008, 01:40 AM
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First of all, what music is to me?
I would say it's kinda way of expressing feelings and emotions(joy, anger, love etc...) or perhaps describe something(hope, despair, loneliness, summer, wind, beach, war etc...). And this does NOT mean that it's just slow beautiful notes here and there it can be very fast some times because, ofcourse there can be feeling in fast music it's just like... If for example the backing has an A chord going on, you can't just sweep the A Major arpeggio at some place of the fretboard like theres no tomorrow. You have to slowly with a lot of thought pick the exact notes you need to get the right expression...
As you might guess from this I'm a fan instrumental and classical music.

Edit. I think that JVM described it pretty darn well with that vocabulary thing....

This post has been edited by Tuubsu: Feb 11 2008, 01:42 AM


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OrganisedConfusi...
post Feb 11 2008, 01:42 AM
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And you can be fast and have lots of feel

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=tRK6NxgPlfo

That proves it surely.


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JVM
post Feb 11 2008, 01:54 AM
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QUOTE (OrganisedConfusion @ Feb 10 2008, 07:42 PM) *
And you can be fast and have lots of feel

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=tRK6NxgPlfo

That proves it surely.


Great cover of altitudes.


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FretDancer69
post Feb 11 2008, 02:00 AM
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QUOTE (OrganisedConfusion @ Feb 10 2008, 06:42 PM) *
And you can be fast and have lots of feel

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=tRK6NxgPlfo

That proves it surely.


wow really good playing


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OrganisedConfusi...
post Feb 11 2008, 02:02 AM
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QUOTE (JVM @ Feb 11 2008, 12:54 AM) *
Great cover of altitudes.

And the genius himself

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=1wFoSbjXB68


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rokchik
post Feb 11 2008, 02:37 AM
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QUOTE (Owen @ Feb 10 2008, 08:02 PM) *
And what is it to you?

Some may think of this as an odd question, but is music just enjoyable noise, a showcase for talent or is it a expression of your innermost emotions and feelings, what does music mean to you?

Can music have "soul", or is this just an empty phrase, is it just something that we, as people, are naturally drawn to?

The reason I ask, is that I've had a "late-night" discussion with my dad, the sort of ramblings he gets on when he's had a bit too much wine, decides he's going to close his eyes and impart his wisdom of the world onto any poor person who happens to be in close proximity, and according to him, tonight, "jazz has no soul, but blues does", apparently blues is just raw emotion, but jazz is an empty void of theory worship. I think his belief is that minimalism is beautiful, but I disagree, I dont think that technique is useless, or that simplicity is the answer to everything. I think learning new things shows talent and determination to gain multiple musical skills in your arsenal and be varied. Damn you Pavel I havent been working on those sweep arpeggios for nothing! tongue.gif

In some ways this whole discussion is also relevant to the arguments which have arisen on the topic of shredding over the months and years though, does someone who plays at 250bpm necessarily have less "feeling" than someone who rumbles up a few picking licks on a the old A minor Pentatonic?

Is emotion just simple melodies, is music just a distraction and are there to many questions in this topic already?

GMCers, I ask you these questions, and await you to impart any wisdom you may (or may not wink.gif ) have! biggrin.gif



What is music?
Well for me music is life. Now I don't mean I "live" for music (although in a way I do because without music I think my life would be pretty dull) but that I think people create and listen to music ,of whatever kind, to help them deal with their lives, interactions with others and just the world in general. Express feelings, desires, thoughts, situations all from what they have experienced or are experiencing at that time. Whether it's classical music or death metal it all revolves around life.

As for certain music having soul or feeling and others not having it, well I think that is a very indivdual thing. Just as music is a very individual thing. It speaks to different people in different ways. Complicated, fast or very simple it doesn't matter. I think it depends on the listener. Some may find more soul and feeling in a Slayer song then they do in say a BB King song. Are they wrong? No they aren't, it's just what moves them. No right or wrong answer just what ever speaks to you and your own soul.

This post has been edited by rokchik: Feb 11 2008, 02:39 AM
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Muris Varajic
post Feb 11 2008, 02:56 AM
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I would love to say few words about soul/feel.

As OrganisedConfusion said above,you can find it in every genre and that IS truth.
But what produces it?
A player of course. smile.gif
And you can actually see it on his face,moves he makes etc.
(ok,if you're only listening to mp3,you can't actually see it ).
But lets stay with visual aspect.
So you may not like the tune or piece of music
but cannot deny when someone is having full expression and it's so obvious,
music is coming from himself,through instrument and right to you.
Which tells as that instrument is only a tool to express your emotion. smile.gif

There isn't much soul/feel in practicing/playing/ focusing only on technique topics
BUT if you combine it with what you are carrying inside and use as a "weapon",
then you are fully musician,you know what to say and how. smile.gif


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Feb 11 2008, 03:21 AM
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Music is sound waves in harmony relative to humans. It is my center, where my soul is in balance. smile.gif


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Fran
post Feb 11 2008, 05:50 PM
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I personally don't care about the speed a song is played, I don't care if it's technical or simple, I don't even care for the supposed genre of the group it's played by...

All I care for is plain and simple: does it reach my soul? Can it touch my heart? Can I allow not to know the name of the song and let it dissapear forever? Or do I have to run and search google until I know the title and artist so I can listen to it again and again?

In other words: music is what makes you feel.

Now, that could be very different from one person to another. That's of course what makes different people listen to different stuff!


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botoxfox
post Feb 11 2008, 05:55 PM
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music wink.gif


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Feb 11 2008, 06:44 PM
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QUOTE (Owen @ Feb 11 2008, 01:02 AM) *
"jazz has no soul, but blues does",

Great question Owen.

Just a quick, well for me, comment - John Coltrane's 'Love Supreme' was written very much from the soul and reaches out to (try to) touch us. It's personal choice whether or not we, as individuals, like this composition but I would disagree strongly that it 'has no soul'. Your dad might find some of the biographies on Coltrane and other jazz greats really interesting on this point.

Cheers,
Tony


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Nemanja Filipovi...
post Feb 11 2008, 08:32 PM
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for me music is off course my life...but I only respect it when it's honnest...any kind of music...rock,metall,pop,county,rap...etc..dosent matter..what matter is the people that trying to tell me there story trough there music...and honnesy always comes trough.... ..and to me....


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Feb 11 2008, 08:36 PM
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Music don't have a soul, but a player does. If that soul is big he is making a soulful music. Blues has a lot of soul when played by african americans who in my oppinion have a ton of soul for the blues. They are the worlds greatest musicians. They just are. Vast majority of them have natural sense for music that other races can only dream of.


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Nemanja Filipovi...
post Feb 11 2008, 08:39 PM
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QUOTE (Milenkovic Ivan @ Feb 11 2008, 08:36 PM) *
Music don't have a soul, but a player does. If that soul is big he is making a soulful music. Blues has a lot of soul when played by african americans who in my oppinion have a ton of soul for the blues. They are the worlds greatest musicians. They just are. Vast majority of them have natural sense for music that other races can only dream of.

yeh but waht about SRV..... laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif just kiding....I agree with you 100%


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