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> Rhythm Guitar Recording
steve25
post Mar 16 2008, 10:27 PM
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Ok so i was wondering if when you record rhythm guitar that you have to record the whole song all the way through in one take. So you hear it a lot in metal that there isn't much space for stopping. So if you have a difficult part say at the end of the song or you mess up a harmonic or bend or something towards the end do you have to go delete the whole track and start all over again from the beginning or how do people usually do it? Just curious is all
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ballistic31
post Mar 16 2008, 11:10 PM
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well there are a few way to deal with that problem.......#1 dont mess up laugh.gif .kidding....#2 you could record in loop mode...that would be recording mutipul takes.... then just cut out that bad parts and replace them with the good pieces of that parts and use cross fades....this is a common way most mixing and sound engineers like to go about it..cause you have a very even volume level with all the takes.......#3 would be to record all the parts seperatly.......the main rythem...........bridge and so on.........then make them into sound clips........then all you have to do is click and drag and drop each part into its place............the problem you will find is cross fadeing will be very tricky..and not to mention the volume controll with different levels...............but a very effective way to write a song.........before you record your final takes...cause you can mix and match different parts together to get a good sequence for the song....

Im curently attending mixing and mastering classes........and we just got thru these different forms of mixing last week..I am totaly sold on #2......recording in loop mode I found it makes for a much cleaner mix....for one you have a guide to help you cut and paste.........The guide would be your time line because a song must fall into a time line for it.to be a song weather it be 4/4 or what have you ..........this also makes the cross fade work properly.............kind of think of it as trying to cut out........shape on a piece of paper........without a line to follow..it is not going to look all that great...........but if you had a line to follow.it should come out almost perfect............

I think the best thing for you to do is try a few different..........ways as i have mentioned above....I think you will have good results............If you need any help with anything just messege me and i will help you out....as best i can ....


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steve25
post Mar 16 2008, 11:14 PM
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Thanks ballistic for a very useful post. I was wondering if you could go into more details on #2? Like what it is what it involves and how you might do it etc.
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Saoirse O'Shea
post Mar 16 2008, 11:15 PM
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+1 for loop/multi lane - and not just for rhythm guitar smile.gif . Quite a few daws, including Reaper, make quite a big deal about lane recording.

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Joe Kataldo
post Mar 17 2008, 12:07 AM
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+1 this is the fastest way that gives better more realistic results


QUOTE (tonymiro @ Mar 16 2008, 11:15 PM) *
+1 for loop/multi lane - and not just for rhythm guitar smile.gif . Quite a few daws, including Reaper, make quite a big deal about lane recording.

Cheers,
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steve25
post Mar 17 2008, 01:14 AM
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I'm not sure what this is i don't know anything about it, never heard of it. Any sites i can find out about it?
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Ivan Milenkovic
post Mar 17 2008, 01:20 AM
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It depends on the music and arrangment. In progressive metal with off syncopating beat riffs it is hard to overlap. In some songs looping is better options for rhythtm. In general the best is to do perfect in one take, if you can't do it than must crossfade the parts seemlesly. Try to break them at important junctures in the song, so the difference is then smaller and always cut the files where the sine of the audio wave touches the middle line of the event.


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steve25
post Mar 17 2008, 01:26 AM
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So you're saying do all the rhythm takes all the way through? what if you decide you want to change a certain part of add something in? You've got to do the whole thing again? And also getting all your rhythm parts perfectly right seems quite difficult as you've got to do them more than once perfectly
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Trond Vold
post Mar 17 2008, 08:33 AM
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I like to do my rhythm tracks in one go if i can, or do a new track if there's a break in the song.
Might take some more time to get a perfect take though if it's a tricky song, but i think the results sound better.

This post has been edited by Trond Vold: Mar 17 2008, 08:34 AM


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Andrew Cockburn
post Mar 17 2008, 12:40 PM
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Playing it all the way through is ideal - but its very possible and these days very easy to make any part up out of several takes. Editors are now so sophisticated that you can click and drag any parts together, as long as you pick a place in between notes. With good cross fading you often don;t even need to do that.

In fact this is called "comping" and people have been doing it for years - I remember reading a Dave Golmour interview in which he said the comfortably numb solo was just 3 or 4 takes in the studio and he picked the best bits of each.

However, despite all of this, the best musicians will continuously rerecord until they get 2 or 3 great takes all the way through then choose the best.

The loop thing is just a way of setting your computer up so that it keeps rerecording the whole section you tell it to, time after time until you stop it. Its a very convenient way of playing the same thing over until you get a take that you like without recording over the top of all the old takes.


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Mar 18 2008, 07:37 PM
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Very nicely put Andrew smile.gif



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Toni Suominen
post Mar 18 2008, 07:43 PM
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Lately I've been trying the "click and drag" method more, because it's tiring to play long sections of a song over and over again only because I played one bad note or something. Of course playing it all in one take is the best way, but fiddling around with different sections of songs and crossfading them together is always helpful smile.gif


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Daniel Robinson
post Mar 25 2008, 07:56 AM
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Me personally i like to work with loops as well. Usually what i will do is i will write out on paper all the sections of a song.

I then break the song down into those sections. I will record for example the main verse line, more then likely your going to repeat certain phrases over and over again. Once i get one go around of the verse perfect I will create a loop and save it to be pasted in after the bridge and chorus again. So i only have to do that verse 1 time. Of course if i am doing multi-layered parts or doing multi takes of the same part you have to get that part perfect as well. And just repeat that process thru the whole song.

If there are parts i want to add small changes i will start another track and play that one small section then cut and paste into the track above it in the appropriate spot on the timeline.


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steve25
post Mar 25 2008, 03:34 PM
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If there's not much of a break in the song though there's not a lot you can do about it is there? If you just suddenly stop and then record the next part it's going to sound a bit weird isn't it?
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Daniel Robinson
post Mar 25 2008, 06:35 PM
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QUOTE (steve25 @ Mar 25 2008, 09:34 AM) *
If there's not much of a break in the song though there's not a lot you can do about it is there? If you just suddenly stop and then record the next part it's going to sound a bit weird isn't it?


If the song does have alot going on i get around the breaks by starting a new track...then backing the DAW up 2 bars and playing those two bars as i did in the previous track..then record the next part...i then blend the two tracks together and use a Volume envelope where i doubled the guitar for those two bars so it doesnt get loud all of a sudden. If you play around with it when the song is done you can edit like crazy and it sounds natural with everything else in the song.

Certainly if you played the individual tracks you might here some discrepencies but when hearing the song as a whole its darn near impossible to hear it.


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Smurkas
post Mar 25 2008, 08:56 PM
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Just like Mr. Robinson said, you'd be surprised at what you can actually get away with if you do it properly. Me and a friend of mine were laying down guitars for a song last week which we hadn't totally finished yet. He came up with a cool riff on the spot and we decided to go with it. Now the riff isn't a very difficult one but since none of us had played it before we were bound to make mistakes if we tried to nail the whole riff in one take. So what do you do?

Well we could have sat down and practiced awhile so we could really nail it, but that's boring so instead we went for the cut n' paste method. In this case, the riff is actually not even played for the whole bar, there's cuts for replacements all over the place. The first bar of the riff is cut twice and the second bar is cut once. I've gone ahead and posted the finished result here so that you can listen to it and judge for yourself.

Now you know that I've made cuts in the riff so you'll be listening for them but if you didn't know, do you think you'd notice? With everything else in the mix, it's really hard to hear small imperfections like the ones you get from cutting and pasting.


/Marcus


Attached File  Post_Factum___Ripoff.mp3 ( 939.92K ) Number of downloads: 217
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Daniel Robinson
post Mar 26 2008, 06:04 AM
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Wow thats awesome Smurkas.

I really dig that riff and the editing of it is top shelf. Thanks for sharing!


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