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> I Love Gmc!, Hey.. whats all the comotion here???
Iluha
post Mar 20 2008, 03:11 PM
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I am going to be completly honest here.. and everything I say is my opinion only.

The reason I pay for this site is for the potential of it.. I don't pay to watch the lessons because ussually I don't even watch any videos except for the main ones, I pay because I see it as an investment in a site I truly bealive can become really great and even revolutionary!

But lately, the site has taken turn to the wrong side, sometimes it feels to me that the hiring of instructors is focused more on quantity rather than on quality, and I won't go into that matter as I'm sure alot of you will agree with me on this, other than that there's the whole Senior thing, which I feel is making unnecessary ranks on the site, causing people to be more "helpful" and more active on the boards, wich ultimatly just causes alot of useless repeating posts.

Also I didn't know about this until yesterday, but some of the things the instructors are getting paid for are absurd, 5$ per 100 posts, and the payment for collabs, those two things shouldn't be paid for, they need to come from the thoughts of the instructors, knowing they get paid for it makes me feel they are not doing it seriously but only for the money they recieve from it!

There's other things as well, but I won't go into it.

Again, this is only my opinion, and don't mean to offend anyone..


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Trond Vold
post Mar 20 2008, 03:30 PM
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I dont think there's any quantity-over-quality problem here..
Sure, there's alot of instructors.. but they are all working very hard on making good lessons. And there's many lessons to cover lots of styles.
But seriously, 2-3 released videos each day cant be considered alot.. It's just about right.

Sure, we might get paid to post.. but i dont see why that should make what we say less serious. It's not like posting alot would work as a get-rich-quick scheme wink.gif
I spend some time in the chat too, and we dont get paid for that.

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stetson
post Mar 20 2008, 03:34 PM
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Just my thoughts:

I'm new to this place, and I'm not interested about all this chit chat about who did what to whoever, all I care about here is improving my guitar skills. I'm not interested in making friends, or talking about global warming and stuff.

In fact, I've spent the most boring half an hour of my life tryin to find out what's the other website you are talking about. I could be playing guitar instead!

That being said, I think it's pretty normal to make some friends in the long run, as long as there will be some interaction involved like, "hey guys, my harmonics sound like crap, what can I do about it", that kind of interaction.

Yeah, I know, I can see the paradox, I'm talking here about not talking here smile.gif I thought for once my opinion could be great for you guys, as I am not the kind of guy that makes his point in a forum.

But I don't get this kind of community feeling, this kind of "us" and "them" thing.

I think you should focus in improving your site, instead of talking about this whole ex-coworkers situation.

This is not just an internet business, I know that, but in fact, it really is that too, and you need to approach to these situations like it is. You need to identify the coolness (yes, I've said that, Chris!) of this other site, and try to bring that here with a twist of improvement, that's what everybody does, and there should not be any feelings involved about that.

In fact, that's what they are surely doing about GMC. And you know which are those cool things, I've been there and I saw them.

I think GMC is great, is helping me a lot, that's what's really important to me, I'm not switching, I'm planing to renew my subscription, and I really thank you guys for all your work.

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Goliath
post Mar 20 2008, 03:34 PM
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I am on the same page as Iluha here with a couple differences in opinion.

I think rewarding instructors for being active in the community is a GOOD thing, as it builds community, but doing so in a constructive way. Off topic posts shouldn't count (meaning, in the offtopic board). That's just cutting up, that's not benefitting from their insight/experience with music. Paid collabs are a GOOD thing as well, because if you're a pro/semi pro musician, why waste your time with a bunch of rookies on the net? This is helping folks understand, providing 1 on 1 time with instructors and helps folks understand recording/nailing their tone, I think this should be paid for, sure.

That said, there are some lessons I look at and think, this has taught me nothing, this is just a pretty piece of music. The "In the Style of" stuff can be tricky, without a GOOD narrative of WHAT makes the composition in the style of, what techniques are used, explanation of what key is used and why, etc etc. is good but sometimes it's just a "hey look at this cool riff I can play" and isn't a lesson so much as it is an exhibition.

Personally, I disagree with the "family friendly" vibe of the site as well, but that's my preference, I mean I understand the logic and the reasoning but at the same time there are times I wish the site was a little more adult oriented.

As for the various "strata", I understand the reasoning of the GMC Senior stuff, but just about all seniors are now moderators, so I don't really care. Yeah, it encourages people to be active and post loads, but a lot of times I can tell when folks are just post farming.

Just my opinion though.



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Saoirse O'Shea
post Mar 20 2008, 03:34 PM
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QUOTE (Iluha @ Mar 20 2008, 03:11 PM) *
I am going to be completly honest here.. and everything I say is my opinion only.

The reason I pay for this site is for the potential of it.. I don't pay to watch the lessons because ussually I don't even watch any videos except for the main ones, I pay because I see it as an investment in a site I truly bealive can become really great and even revolutionary!

But lately, the site has taken turn to the wrong side, sometimes it feels to me that the hiring of instructors is focused more on quantity rather than on quality, and I won't go into that matter as I'm sure alot of you will agree with me on this, other than that there's the whole Senior thing, which I feel is making unnecessary ranks on the site, causing people to be more "helpful" and more active on the boards, wich ultimatly just causes alot of useless repeating posts.

Also I didn't know about this until yesterday, but some of the things the instructors are getting paid for are absurd, 5$ per 100 posts, and the payment for collabs, those two things shouldn't be paid for, they need to come from the thoughts of the instructors, knowing they get paid for it makes me feel they are not doing it seriously but only for the money they recieve from it!

There's other things as well, but I won't go into it.

Again, this is only my opinion, and don't mean to offend anyone..


Just my opinion but:

1) Any member who has concerns with the quantity or quality of lessons may take those concerns to Kris. Indeed it's already been said that we would value the feedback.

2) Seniors - they get to be a senior because they have a history of helpful and informative posts and not the other way around.

3) When instructors reply to a specific, and often technical, question they often do so at some length and put a lot of time in to composing their replies. In so doing they are calling upon their experience and knowledge and the replies are often easily 100 words in length. For 5 cents that imo is a bargain.

4) The additional payments to instructors isn't a secret - the information is available for any one to inspect.

Cheers,
Tony


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Iluha
post Mar 20 2008, 03:34 PM
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QUOTE (Trond Vold @ Mar 20 2008, 04:30 PM) *
I dont think there's any quantity-over-quality problem here..
Sure, there's alot of instructors.. but they are all working very hard on making good lessons. And there's many lessons to cover lots of styles.
But seriously, 2-3 released videos each day cant be considered alot.. It's just about right.

Sure, we might get paid to post.. but i dont see why that should make what we say less serious. It's not like posting alot would work as a get-rich-quick scheme wink.gif
I spend some time in the chat too, and we dont get paid for that.


The thing is there's alot of lessons who are just not "good"(my opinion), and incidently those lessons are from the same instructors.
Im not saying everyone's posts are less serious, but some are, I won't point out names but just look a couple of thread below this one.. anyways I'm not saying anything else or it might get personal.


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Iluha
post Mar 20 2008, 03:41 PM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Mar 20 2008, 04:34 PM) *
Just my opinion but:

1) Any member who has concerns with the quantity or quality of lessons may take those concerns to Kris. Indeed it's already been said that we would value the feedback.

2) Seniors - they get to be a senior because they have a history of helpful and informative posts and not the other way around.

3) When instructors reply to a specific, and often technical, question they often do so at some length and put a lot of time in to composing their replies. In so doing they are calling upon their experience and knowledge and the replies are often easily 100 words in length. For 5 cents that imo is a bargain.

4) The additional payments to instructors isn't a secret - the information is available for any one to inspect.

Cheers,
Tony


1) got no objections on this, I just decided to post it here as well because of the circumstances.

2) I defintly disagree with you on this one, Iv'e been a member long enough, and longer than most of the seniors, and in my opinion if some of the people that got seniord are seniors, then there's alot more who should be seniorised, but if that would happen there will REALLY be a class issue which I would only expect from free forums.

3)Look at my post above.

4)I didn't say it was a secret.


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Jeff
post Mar 20 2008, 03:48 PM
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QUOTE (Nobody @ Mar 20 2008, 07:29 AM) *
I don't get it! What's with all the "Increase the video quality", "Instructors bla bla bla"!

HEY!

Don't be such winers! Maybe you have forgotten the time with the crappy audio casette players with tapes with re-re-re-recordings and the only way to learn something was to play it by ear from one of them! Now you get perfect videos, you have guitar pro files, you have explanations like for an idiot and there are still some that are complaining! I don't get it!

Hristian

P.S. Sorry for being quite offensive but hey, you are getting so f***ing much for your funny 48 dollars and some are still complaining.. It just pisses me off..


yea man. I miss the old cassetts and LP's. I've scratched and ruined a lot of good records trying to learn songs. smile.gif I remember this ..lift the needle, place needle back a little, drop needle, write notes, do over again. Old School rules! And OLD DUDES ROCK!! biggrin.gif

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Ivan Milenkovic
post Mar 20 2008, 03:49 PM
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With over 500 lessons, and so many instructors it is reasonable that you think that lessons are varying in quality. As for quantity, the number of lessons is growing bigger and bigger eveyr day. Personally I think that everyone can find anything it needs for his own taste of playing.

ALso the same with collabs and posts, we are all different people here, in need of knowledge. Through collabs people do a great job recording and making their recording abilities better. Instructors do their best to make the good backing, upload everything, mix it all up, listen to everything, make all the comments and people can always find something useful and constructive in order to make them better in playing and recording. Also feedback on the forums is very important, and I strive to help everyone who wants to know something more. It is all part of the job, but of course a lot more too. For someone to play my lesson, and learn something from me, it is a great accomplishment for myself to, and we I am learning as I do lessons to. So all this makes me feel good about myself and come here more often to help i f someone needs help. This makes members better players, and us too, and everything is working the best it can because of the whole comission based idea.

Also I think personally it is great for Iluha to be honest about the things he don't like about hte site, yes these thing can be little unpleasant to hear, but it makes the site even better after it! smile.gif So thanks man for pointing out the weak spots!


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Iluha
post Mar 20 2008, 03:53 PM
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QUOTE (Milenkovic Ivan @ Mar 20 2008, 04:49 PM) *
With over 500 lessons, and so many instructors it is reasonable that you think that lessons are varying in quality. As for quantity, the number of lessons is growing bigger and bigger eveyr day. Personally I think that everyone can find anything it needs for his own taste of playing.

ALso the same with collabs and posts, we are all different people here, in need of knowledge. Through collabs people do a great job recording and making their recording abilities better. Instructors do their best to make the good backing, upload everything, mix it all up, listen to everything, make all the comments and people can always find something useful and constructive in order to make them better in playing and recording. Also feedback on the forums is very important, and I strive to help everyone who wants to know something more. It is all part of the job, but of course a lot more too. For someone to play my lesson, and learn something from me, it is a great accomplishment for myself to, and we I am learning as I do lessons to. So all this makes me feel good about myself and come here more often to help i f someone needs help. This makes members better players, and us too, and everything is working the best it can because of the whole comission based idea.

Also I think personally it is great for Iluha to be honest about the things he don't like about hte site, yes these thing can be little unpleasant to hear, but it makes the site even better after it! smile.gif So thanks man for pointing out the weak spots!


Ivan on a personal note, I think you really set a great example of how a teacher should act, I can truly see that you care and want to help people become better musicians! but, and I know this for a fact, some instructors are not like that at all, sometimes I read an instructor reply to a recording(either mine, or someone else's) and think to myself:"did he just listen to the same thing as me?".


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Mar 20 2008, 04:04 PM
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Thanks man and, if may I add, something very positive turned out from this whole mess, and I think you being honest about thing you disslike or like on GMC would mean a lot to instructors and members so we can have even better community with a constant strive for making things better.


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Iluha
post Mar 20 2008, 04:07 PM
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QUOTE (Milenkovic Ivan @ Mar 20 2008, 05:04 PM) *
Thanks man and, if may I add, something very positive turned out from this whole mess, and I think you being honest about thing you disslike or like on GMC would mean a lot to instructors and members so we can have even better community with a constant strive for making things better.

Thanks... I didn't have a negative intention, just some things needs to get said, and I hope it gives others some courage to speak out, because I know there's alot of other people that feel the same as me, and the only way to change things is to speak you'r opinion.


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Tuubsu
post Mar 20 2008, 04:12 PM
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QUOTE (Iluha @ Mar 20 2008, 05:07 PM) *
Thanks... I didn't have a negative intention, just some things needs to get said, and I hope it gives others some courage to speak out, because I know there's alot of other people that feel the same as me, and the only way to change things is to speak you'r opinion.


Yeah, I agree with you on everything except the instructors collab and posting payments. I would have wanted to discuss it earlier, but maybe I thought it would get too negative image and/or responses.


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Muris Varajic
post Mar 20 2008, 04:18 PM
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Payed posts and collabs,
that's Kris's policy towards instructors,
I don't think members need to think a lot about that,imho. smile.gif

Of course of you have any doubt about that I suggest you to contact Kris.

And yeah,Pavel's statement "don't hire s**** instructors" was really unprofessional and worse. sad.gif


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Bondy
post Mar 20 2008, 04:21 PM
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Wow taking ages to read all this all iam gonna say is GMC rules and iam never leaving


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Jeff
post Mar 20 2008, 04:27 PM
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QUOTE (Iluha @ Mar 20 2008, 09:11 AM) *
Also I didn't know about this until yesterday, but some of the things the instructors are getting paid for are absurd, 5$ per 100 posts, and the payment for collabs, those two things shouldn't be paid for, they need to come from the thoughts of the instructors, knowing they get paid for it makes me feel they are not doing it seriously but only for the money they recieve from it!


Hey Iluha,

I'll just throw a thought out here... if an instructor spent some time to provide an honest informitive post that helps someone else, I will assume that it must take a little time to do so. If you were to multiply that by 100, the simple math tells me that equates to less than $5 an hour because it must take more than a hour to do that many posts unless you are on a spam rampage. You could mop floors at the local taco joint and make twice that amount.

So at least to me, I don't think it's an absurd amount and quite frankly I don't think the instructors do either. In fact, I believe they post because they are interested. There is hardly any financial gain there.

On another note, I love GMC! I don't mean to blow sunshine on the instructors here but damn, I'd give my left one to play like Lavendell! laugh.gif
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Melodic Axeman
post Mar 20 2008, 04:28 PM
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I don't care about payments and what else, that is not my business. The only thing I can care of is what I can learn and how I can improve my skills in guitar playing. And in my opinion there is a most important point, and goliath has been very clear:

QUOTE (Goliath @ Mar 20 2008, 03:34 PM) *
That said, there are some lessons I look at and think, this has taught me nothing, this is just a pretty piece of music. The "In the Style of" stuff can be tricky, without a GOOD narrative of WHAT makes the composition in the style of, what techniques are used, explanation of what key is used and why, etc etc. is good but sometimes it's just a "hey look at this cool riff I can play" and isn't a lesson so much as it is an exhibition.


Sometimes is useless to learn some lessons, like.. i don't know "Prog solo", or "Metal riff", because you can learn the same thing playing a famous song, instead of learning a 1 minute piece of song that doesn't give you nothing at the end.
As I said, I think that the most useful lessons are the 101, where you can really learn techniques (i.e. tapping, sweep), theory (pentatonic, box shifting) and other cool things, all talked and explained like when you are in front of a real instructor. Sometimes the feeling is that there is a backing track, a jam recorded on it ant that's a lesson.

Even "in the style of" can be very useful, but only if there is an explanation on what does the artist in order to get that sound, techniques etc, if it's only a video with a couple of notes to learn, you can learn some song and maybe have fun with your friends.

I renewed since now, but sincerly I have to say that generally what I do is watching the main video and skip to another one
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Mrblomme
post Mar 20 2008, 04:28 PM
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QUOTE (Muris @ Mar 20 2008, 04:18 PM) *
And yeah,Pavel's statement "don't hire s**** instructors" was really unprofessional and worse. sad.gif

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Iluha
post Mar 20 2008, 04:33 PM
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QUOTE (jeff @ Mar 20 2008, 05:27 PM) *
Hey Iluha,

I'll just throw a thought out here... if an instructor spent some time to provide an honest informitive post that helps someone else, I will assume that it must take a little time to do so. If you were to multiply that by 100, the simple math tells me that equates to less than $5 an hour because it must take more than a hour to do that many posts unless you are on a spam rampage. You could mop floors at the local taco joint and make twice that amount.

So at least to me, I don't think it's an absurd amount and quite frankly I don't think the instructors do either. In fact, I believe they post because they are interested. There is hardly any financial gain there.

On another note, I love GMC! I don't mean to blow sunshine on the instructors here but damn, I'd give my left one to play like Lavendell! laugh.gif


Yeah I think I didn't think about the payment thing enough, when I think of it now throughly, most of the instructors don't
abuse it.


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Trond Vold
post Mar 20 2008, 04:35 PM
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QUOTE (Melodic Axeman @ Mar 20 2008, 04:28 PM) *
I don't care about payments and what else, that is not my business. The only thing I can care of is what I can learn and how I can improve my skills in guitar playing. And in my opinion there is a most important point, and goliath has been very clear:



Sometimes is useless to learn some lessons, like.. i don't know "Prog solo", or "Metal riff", because you can learn the same thing playing a famous song, instead of learning a 1 minute piece of song that doesn't give you nothing at the end.
As I said, I think that the most useful lessons are the 101, where you can really learn techniques (i.e. tapping, sweep), theory (pentatonic, box shifting) and other cool things, all talked and explained like when you are in front of a real instructor. Sometimes the feeling is that there is a backing track, a jam recorded on it ant that's a lesson.

Even "in the style of" can be very useful, but only if there is an explanation on what does the artist in order to get that sound, techniques etc, if it's only a video with a couple of notes to learn, you can learn some song and maybe have fun with your friends.

I renewed since now, but sincerly I have to say that generally what I do is watching the main video and skip to another one


Different people can get something different out of the various lessons.
A "prog solo" lesson might be useless for you, but someone else might pick up a thing or two about how to play like that, and then use that for his/hers own solos.
I do understand what you mean though.

This post has been edited by Trond Vold: Mar 20 2008, 04:37 PM


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