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> Do You Believe In A God Or Gods?
Religion
Do you believe in a God or Gods?
Theist [ 47 ] ** [36.43%]
Agnostic [ 25 ] ** [19.38%]
Atheist [ 44 ] ** [34.11%]
Other [ 13 ] ** [10.08%]
Total Votes: 129
  
Azzaboi
post Jul 6 2010, 11:18 AM
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The top bit was to answer tonyparnham, the second bit was your question, Alexiaden93.

Where does it say there will NOT be a judgement day?

No one will know the day, but it says on Judgment day it will be signaled. Christ will descend.

The dead souls will rise. Which is why I don't believe death as eternal damnation for the non-believers, etc.

And they will be judged, each one according to his works.

When you die, you soul lives on. This is hopeful for the innocent that die at birth or never had a chance at life to still make it into heaven.


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tonyparnham
post Jul 6 2010, 12:35 PM
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Hi Azzaboi,
I'm not asking you to pass judgement or preach to me I already understand all that I am an aethiest and dont accept Jesus, I just would like to know according to your religion what happens to my soul when I die?
Regards Tony
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The Uncreator
post Jul 6 2010, 12:54 PM
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QUOTE (Azzaboi)

I don't believe in the Apollo 11 moon landing with 1000s of anomalies which don't add up, and there was also a good reason to fake it.



To be honest, I don't see how anyone can really not believe in Apollo 11. The moon, while far, is certainly not beyond our reach. Sure, there was good reasons to fake it, but there were better reasons to actually go there.


QUOTE (Azzaboi)

Actually we are still waiting for that... we have not seen the flag (blown away with no air?) and we can't see the footprint. All we have actually see is the crater (which could of been there in the first place) and a dot... If the hubble telescope is powerful enough to see millions of miles away why do we not have a telescope powerful enough to see the footprints and flag on the moon? Telescopes mostly gather light, to make dark things visible, finding the footprint will be impossible with today's technology.



Momentum can move the flag alone, which is why it appears to be "blown". Its hard to see the foot print because the moon has 1/6 the gravity of earth, a foot, even with all the astronauts equipment, would not make an impression as deep as one on earth. And telescopes don't make dark things visible. They gather light from a great distance that the human eye cannot perceive - The Hubble, as you mentioned - Is in orbit around the earth, so it does not have to look through our atmosphere - And the atmosphere alone hides a lot of the universe.It makes distant objects visible, and some of those objects are some of the most luminous objects in the cosmic sky. Gathering light from an object several hundreds or millions of light years away with the hubble is not quite the same as doing it with a footprint on the moon, which by all respective distances is next to it. My Physics professor said its like taking a picture of your mother while she is 20 feet from you, nice clear picture. Move her against the lens and you get distortion, Just like if the hubble were to aim its lens at the moon. Its probably too close for a clear image. Although, I am not quite sure of the capabilities of the Hubbles "zoom out" option, it seems to be bigger on the "zoom in" side of things.


QUOTE (Azzaboi)
The moon doesn't spin, it is below freezing on one side and too hot on the other and have radiation. Yes, they did have radiation poison, plus one to the facts.



The moon rotates about once every 25-30 days. It spins on its lunar axis every lunar cycle (an orbit around earth) which is why we observe the same side of the moon. If it did not rotate at all, we would observe all sides of the moon over a year period of time.

QUOTE (Azzaboi)
We didn't have the technology back then to make it all the way there, let along document it. Yet there was no more than two-second delay in two-way communications at a distance of a 400,000 km (250,000 miles). There may also be some documentary films where the delay has been edited out?



Radio waves travel quite fast in space - about 186,000 miles per second, which means it would take just a tad bit over 2.5 second for the signal to travel there and back.


QUOTE (Azzaboi)
They did make it into earth orbit, but didn't have enough force/fuel to slingshot themselves to the moon, let along come all the way back as planned. So they stayed in orbit, returned and faked the rest at Area 51 where there is satellite images which look like the pretty much like the moon landing. Exposed to radiation while in orbit?



A shuttle is not in constant thrust in space, It uses corrective thrusts and bursts of fuel, not a full on blast. Inertia/momentum/gravity can do the rest. It uses a constant thrust to leave the atmosphere, but thats about it.
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Skewlbuzz
post Jul 6 2010, 01:51 PM
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I'm not gonna join any discussion on religion, just wanted to add a fact on the topic of man being on the moon.

Several retroreflectors were planted on the moon by the Apollo 11 crew. Through laser ranging this has been used to study the varying distance between Earth and the moon.
Actually anyone with the proper equipment can point a laser at the moon, aim for one of the reflectors, and record the light being returned.

This fact has on many occasions been used to prove that man have actually set foot on the moon.


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Chowy Fernandez
post Jul 6 2010, 06:18 PM
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i believe in personal energie, every one of us is a god, every one of us has a god inside, every one of us has unsensless powers,
i also believe theres someting more than that, but we have to work on our love and peace levels, and then we are going to see things that we didn´t think or dream about.
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Alexiaden93
post Jul 6 2010, 08:06 PM
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QUOTE (Azzaboi @ Jul 6 2010, 12:18 PM) *
Where does it say there will NOT be a judgement day?

In the hearts of many Atheists. Are you saying the only true word is that of God?


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Azzaboi
post Jul 6 2010, 08:24 PM
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I'm not passing any judgement nor am I some preacher. Nor will i know all the facts...
I'm not saying it's 100% proven facts and you must convert or anything like that.

I just tried to show the way I think, probably totally different to the next. I tried to answer your and other questions the best I could and how I think about things. I replied to yours 'So your asking will good atheists go to hell?' before. It's not a simple subject either way you look at it. The simple answer is when we die, we are not judged right then and there, but at the day of Judgement Day. You are probably the biggest judge of yourself anyways here on earth. That's what I believe, you may have some different ideas.

The moon landing was just an example to how you can look at things from two sides and take in total different facts.

The same deal - do you believe in or celebrate...
evolution = or God created the heavens and the earth
ghosts/spirits = or human souls and the spirit of Christ
the easter bunny = or the resurrection of Christ
santa (coca cola) = or Saint Nick (christian)
Christmas (pagan dancing naked, raping and murdering) = or the incorrect date of the birth of Christ (we don't know the real date)
Thanksgiving = Christian semi-religious history of giving thanks to God
St. Patrick's Day = celebrates Christian Saint Patrick
St. Andrew's Day = celebrates Christian Saint Andrew
Rest on Sunday = the Lord's rest day
etc...

Humans have be known to take exisiting things and twist them. The truth is holidays have been a part of Christianity from the beginning, with Easter being the oldest. You might want to stop celebrating them if it offences you. Christmas is a mix up. Seven days in a week with the weekend, also based from Christian religion.

So there's two sides of everything, it's up to you what to believe or not. Something which could be a lie or something which could be a lie. There seems to be more lies around not being Christian. Anyway that just the way I look at it.

This post has been edited by Azzaboi: Jul 6 2010, 08:38 PM


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Marek Rojewski
post Jul 6 2010, 08:34 PM
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Just to clear few things, raping and murdering as history shows was not less, maybe even more a Christian than Pagan thing.

Pagans of different believes coexisted in Europe, there were no holy wars, the only war was the one brought under the sign of the cross, and it was the so called "conversion". This is another reason to dislike the Catholic Church. Pagan cultures were much more "developed" in some senses, for example hygiene (is it the right word?) was much more developed in Poland/Scandinavia before Christianity. This has multiple evidences, such as archaeological "disappearance" of "baths/saunas" that were often built before the conversion.


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Azzaboi
post Jul 6 2010, 08:46 PM
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Everyone sins, even Christians. The differences is, it's still celebrating days of darkness and pain only being ended by the rape and murder of innocents. Christians ask forgiveness and move on, and would never celebrate that but rather something positive.

This post has been edited by Azzaboi: Jul 6 2010, 08:47 PM


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Alexiaden93
post Jul 6 2010, 09:27 PM
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QUOTE (Azzaboi @ Jul 6 2010, 09:24 PM) *
I replied to yours 'So your asking will good atheists go to hell?' before.

That's not "mine" that's yours. If you're going to refer to my question, quote me, not yourself. And for your information (for the second time), I have never asked this question. Please give me a quotation, this could save you a lot of energy.

QUOTE (Azzaboi @ Jul 6 2010, 09:24 PM) *
...

Christmas (pagan dancing naked, raping and murdering) = or the incorrect date of the birth of Christ (we don't know the real date)

...

Humans have be known to take exisiting things and twist them. The truth is holidays have been a part of Christianity from the beginning, with Easter being the oldest.

You do realise that Christmas wasn't even called Christmas before? It's derived from Jesus Christ. The true name is "Sol invictus" or the return of the Sun after a long period of darkness in the season of winter.

What can I say? Atheism used to be punishable by death, and without any significant sientific progress 2000 years ago, what were people to believe? Of course our society is based on Christianity and its many holidays. Yes we are not going to kill people, but is it because God told us not to, or because we actually have a brain, that does not need to follow a 10 cm wide book ?

Seriously, everything you are saying is almost obvious. What does it all mean? Does it actually matter in this discussion that Christianity was the founder of modern day society? AS I SAID, and I repeat "Atheism used to be punishable by death, and without any significant sientific progress 2000 years ago, what were people to believe? Of course our society is based on Christianity and its many holidays."

Oh and by the way... You do realise Paganism is thousands of years older than Christianity, and Judaism even more so? You are talking about Christianity as if it were the greatest belief in the world, which is expected from a follower of his faith. When protecting Christianity, use facts, not Christianity. History is far more relevant than any of what is said in the Bible?

It's like saying "How can you really know for sure that we are actually going to be judged and end up like Michael Jackson's Thriller?" and you reply "Because in the Bible, God says that there will be a Judgement Day etc." I mean... That just doesn't have any value in an intellectual discussion, I apologise sincerely, but it doesn't.

QUOTE (Azzaboi @ Jul 6 2010, 09:46 PM) *
Everyone sins, even Christians. The differences is, it's still celebrating days of darkness and pain only being ended by the rape and murder of innocents. Christians ask forgiveness and move on, and would never celebrate that but rather something positive.

You got me there. I rape my neighbour on Christmas, and I really believe all Atheists do the same. I mean, consumerism, good food, music and all of that is just a side-effect of this merry season. Symbolically, yes, we do rape our neighbours, and I am glad you don't.


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Azzaboi
post Jul 7 2010, 12:40 AM
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Alexiaden93 are you mad at me for just giving my side?
Plus your not the only person on here who I've replied too, that was for someone else.

Your've also proven my point, Humans have be known to take exisiting things and twist them...

QUOTE
You got me there. I rape my neighbour on Christmas, and I really believe all Atheists do the same. I mean, consumerism, good food, music and all of that is just a side-effect of this merry season. Symbolically, yes, we do rape our neighbours, and I am glad you don't.


I know Christmas is a pagan celebration and been around longer... I even said that Christmas (pagan dancing naked, raping and murdering) or the incorrect date of the birth of Christ (we don't know the real date). I was simply saying which would you rather celebrate? Not that you may do it, but yet you still celebrate it just in a different lime-light?

QUOTE
Yes we are not going to kill people, but is it because God told us not to, or because we actually have a brain, that does not need to follow a 10 cm wide book?


So I guess you can throw away all your books, books which contain knowledge and help you learn, you can still learn without them. Same diff. Mankind knows it, but still does it anyway so we don't follow it just because we know. You miss my point of human law is all based from that religion, thou say not steal, murder, etc. Is that such a bad thing?

QUOTE
When protecting Christianity, use facts, not Christianity. History is far more relevant than any of what is said in the Bible?


Who said anything about protecting religion? It's been around for thousands of years and will probably be for years to come. Sure doesn't need any protection. If history is far more relevant, yet the religion is wrapped entirely around history and holidays, weeks, etc are all based from it, does that make it relevant enough? Showing a fact like finding the Ark will also prove as much as the moon landing, nothing to a non-believer who will twist it anyway. What's to say it's not just a fake anyway, can you prove any fact from fiction without someone else questioning it? Judgement Day 2012? There's scientific proof of it's existence and it's been calculated for thousands of years, plus its the end of the earths cycle. Does that make me believe it? Not really, it can easily be proven wrong too.

Even if the bible is a story book or translated incorrectly, things in history and even today seem to still be based on it. That's what I take from it, and all I was trying to say.

What really gets me is why people make such a big deal out of it if they don't even believe it.

This post has been edited by Azzaboi: Jul 7 2010, 12:48 AM


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Alexiaden93
post Jul 7 2010, 12:44 AM
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QUOTE (Azzaboi @ Jul 7 2010, 01:40 AM) *
What really gets me is why people make such a big deal out of it if they don't even believe it.

Well, if religion hasn't tolerated free-thinking since the beginning of time, I don't see why free-thinking should tolerate religion. As oxymoronic as it may sound.


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Azzaboi
post Jul 7 2010, 12:59 AM
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It says God gave us free-will, isn't that free-thinking? Religion talks a lot about free-will, it's basically where it all started from. Otherwise we will all be just boring robots.

QUOTE
What really gets me is why people make such a big deal out of it if they don't even believe it.

I meant I don't understand why people get to the point of killing for just believing in something different - either way you look at it. It's kinda sad.

I never preached, tried to convert or change anyones beliefs, nor am I saying I know all the answers, don't get me wrong there. I believe everyone should make up their own mind what to believe.

This post has been edited by Azzaboi: Jul 7 2010, 01:06 AM


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Gary
post Jul 7 2010, 06:45 AM
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I am staying clear of the whole religion issue.. ambivalent on that one as I personally flip flop.

The moon issue.. A bit of advice, do not make those comments to Buzz Aldrin laugh.gif

I work as a long time engineering scientist at the company that designed, developed, tested and manufactured the F1 rocket engine, five of which were mounted to the Apollo 11 Saturn V. In fact, an F1 engine stands tall right outside the front of my company, I get to see her nearly everyday. I consider myself extremely lucky to have personally known many of the old timers who developed the technology that put the US on the moon.. saying that this did not happen to me is akin to blasphemy wink.gif

I do find it interesting that on one hand you are sold on the idea of something that is entirely based in faith but eager to dismiss a fact based engineering triumph that not only occurred in recent time (in a historical sense) but is also intensely documented. What you have stumbled across is a silly conspiracy theory that simply has no merit. Conspiracy theories abound.. the Holocaust did not happen, The US Govt created 9/11..etc..etc. Don't believe everything you read.

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Azzaboi
post Jul 7 2010, 07:57 AM
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So you work for the American Government? The biggest conspiracy cover ups in the world? laugh.gif

I kidd, no offence or blasphemy to your rocket scientist work! I really repect it, must be awesome to have that opportunity!

The moon landing was just an example of how people can take something and twist it the other way - like religion. Yes, I do believe we made it to the moon, just not with Apollo 11. That made it into space then the facts start to fade, there is no solid proof without a conspiracy, lol. I enjoy conspiracy theories (only to see a different point of view) and ripping apart things, and yes I've even done that with religion, why else would I be discussing it.

This post has been edited by Azzaboi: Jul 7 2010, 08:00 AM


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tonyparnham
post Jul 7 2010, 01:40 PM
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To Azzaboi,

The continuing revelations in science are a nightmare to creationists and religions. The reason why you are in denial about the moon landings and other stuff is due to this. You appear to be continually finding reasons to discredit the truth such as the moon landings and other scientific discoveries because it keeps chipping away at your religious beliefs, traditions and teachings. The bottom line is science can be tested and demonstrated, God cannot because there's nothing to test.
So which God is the correct God? is it the Aztec, Greek, Chineese, Norse, Hindu, Tibetan the Abraham Gods which are Jewish, Christian and Islam. Whichever one you pick you will be consdered an athiest to the others.
What if Hinduism is the right one they have 9 million members and all think theirs is correct like you do. Just think if yours is the Christian one you might finish up in the Hindu hell or the Islamic hell or even the Zanist hell. It's only a fine line that you were'nt born in Greece 2000 yrs ago you may be worshipping Appollo.
Regards Tony

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jstcrsn
post Jul 7 2010, 03:08 PM
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Just a quick question
how do archeologists know where to start digging
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Alexiaden93
post Jul 7 2010, 03:09 PM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Jul 7 2010, 04:08 PM) *
Just a quick question
how do archeologists know where to start digging

A quick answer then:
They find a secret treasure map marked X.


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jstcrsn
post Jul 7 2010, 03:17 PM
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QUOTE (Alexiaden93 @ Jul 7 2010, 03:09 PM) *
A quick answer then:
They find a secret treasure map marked X.


i found that map too
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Alexiaden93
post Jul 7 2010, 03:17 PM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Jul 7 2010, 04:17 PM) *
i found that map too

Well done.


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