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> Do You Believe In A God Or Gods?
Religion
Do you believe in a God or Gods?
Theist [ 47 ] ** [36.43%]
Agnostic [ 25 ] ** [19.38%]
Atheist [ 44 ] ** [34.11%]
Other [ 13 ] ** [10.08%]
Total Votes: 129
  
jstcrsn
post Jul 7 2010, 06:28 PM
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QUOTE (tonyparnham @ Jul 7 2010, 01:40 PM) *
To Azzaboi,

The continuing revelations in science are a nightmare to creationists and religions. The reason why you are in denial about the moon landings and other stuff is due to this. You appear to be continually finding reasons to discredit the truth such as the moon landings and other scientific discoveries because it keeps chipping away at your religious beliefs, traditions and teachings. The bottom line is science can be tested and demonstrated, God cannot because there's nothing to test.
So which God is the correct God? is it the Aztec, Greek, Chineese, Norse, Hindu, Tibetan the Abraham Gods which are Jewish, Christian and Islam. Whichever one you pick you will be consdered an athiest to the others.
What if Hinduism is the right one they have 9 million members and all think theirs is correct like you do. Just think if yours is the Christian one you might finish up in the Hindu hell or the Islamic hell or even the Zanist hell. It's only a fine line that you were'nt born in Greece 2000 yrs ago you may be worshipping Appollo.
Regards Tony

You ask which God is the correct one
if there is a correct one -is there any thing we could do to measure up to one
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Azzaboi
post Jul 7 2010, 07:50 PM
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QUOTE
QUOTE
Just a quick question
how do archeologists know where to start digging

A quick answer then:
They find a secret treasure map marked X.


Yeah that's also how they found them dinosaur bones then, better not believe in that stuff or evolution for that matter then... What do you believe, a huge Ark frozen in ice and volcanic rock still mostly in one piece or some scattered bones pieced together randomly? If you believe one then why not the other?

QUOTE
You ask which God is the correct one
if there is a correct one -is there any thing we could do to measure up to one


Most religious beliefs, traditions and teachings are all mixed together. We can't measure up to one one of these, as a Christian we already know and have been told this. It's about doing the best you can do and asking forgiveness / turning away from the bad.


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Alexiaden93
post Jul 7 2010, 08:41 PM
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QUOTE (Azzaboi @ Jul 7 2010, 07:50 PM) *
Most religious beliefs, traditions and teachings are all mixed together. We can't measure up to one one of these, as a Christian we already know and have been told this. It's about doing the best you can do and asking forgiveness / turning away from the bad.

Well, Judaism has nothing to do with Christianity.


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Azzaboi
post Jul 7 2010, 11:53 PM
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QUOTE
Well, Judaism has nothing to do with Christianity.

Underlines the word 'Most'

And umm yes Judaism is a mix off from Christianity in this case...
The book of Genesis describes the events surrounding the lives of the three patriarchs: Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
Judaism focus mainly on Abraham. Judaism is an Abrahamic religion -- a faith which recognizes Abraham as a Patriarch.

These are the three or four major religions which trace their roots back to Abraham: Judaism, Christianity, Islam and the Baha'i Faith. The Baha'i faith is often not included among the Abramic religions. Also, smaller non-Jewish groups such as Falashas, Karaits, Mandaeanism, Rastafarians, Samaritans, etc. trace their spiritual roots back to Abraham.

Some view Jesus as a great moral teacher. Others see him as a false prophet or as an idol of Christianity.

They follow the Ten commandments.

Observation of the weekly Sabbath as a day of rest, starting at sundown on Friday evening. Based on Christianity.

Jews are strict monotheists: they view God as a single, indivisible entity. Most Christians view God as a Trinity: a single entity with three personalities -- the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Some other religions break it down even more.

Judaism, like most religions, affirms the inherent goodness of the world and its people as creations of a creator, aka God.


While one or the other (or all of them) might be mixed up and wrong, same basic ideas flow through them.

It's when people worship gold or money, false idols that it goes wrong. When you die you wont keep any of those material things, so what have you got left?

This post has been edited by Azzaboi: Jul 7 2010, 11:58 PM


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Alexiaden93
post Jul 8 2010, 12:05 AM
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QUOTE (Azzaboi @ Jul 7 2010, 11:53 PM) *
Underlines the word 'Most'

And umm yes Judaism is a mix off from Christianity in this case...

Underlines the fact that Judaism is several millenia older than Christianity, and thus per human logic is not influenced by Christianity. The latter, on the other hand, is influenced by the former.

This post has been edited by Alexiaden93: Jul 8 2010, 12:05 AM


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Azzaboi
post Jul 8 2010, 12:33 AM
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You keep putting words in my mouth or I just suck at typing the point clear.

I said: 'Most religious beliefs, traditions and teachings are all mixed together.'

Meaning they share historical roots, both Judaism and Christianity share the same pieces of history.

I never said oh I believe in Christianity therefore it must be the one truth and only correct way. That would be blinded and dumb to think narrow mindedly like that. One religion scretches of thousands of years and has been translated and rewriten, no doubt it could be slightly wrong. I'm pretty open minded.

I said: 'While one or the other (or all of them) might be mixed up and wrong, same basic ideas flow through them.'

If your interested, look up Judeo–Christian the mix of both religions (Judaism and Christianity) and find the same set of beliefs and ethics between both. Maybe your right to say Christianity is based from Judaism, but I never said whats based on what, cos honestly I don't know - all I see is that its mixed. Weed out the differences and find all the same history, you might end up with the real facts.

This post has been edited by Azzaboi: Jul 8 2010, 12:45 AM


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Alexiaden93
post Jul 8 2010, 12:35 AM
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QUOTE (Azzaboi @ Jul 8 2010, 12:33 AM) *
You keep putting words in my mouth or I just suck at typing the point clear.

I said: 'Most religious beliefs, traditions and teachings are all mixed together.'

Meaning they share historical roots, both Judaism and Christianity share the same pieces of history.

I never said oh I believe in Christianity therefore it must be the one truth and only correct way. While it could or maybe not.. that would be blinded and dumb to think like that. I'm pretty open minded.

I said: 'While one or the other (or all of them) might be mixed up and wrong, same basic ideas flow through them.'

Well Atheism is all about being kind to people. If I help somebody across the street, however, an Atheist would say "Thank you, Sir", whilst a Christian would say "Thanks, God". Don't you love people appreciating you?

This post has been edited by Alexiaden93: Jul 8 2010, 12:36 AM


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Azzaboi
post Jul 8 2010, 01:04 AM
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Christianity teaches us to be kind and have good morals. It's the same as a good spirited Atheism.

Christians go out of the way to help others. Christians believe that life is eternal, what good you do will stick with you.

One of the marks of a Christian is the desire to help others. Because it changes the believer's heart.

We would still say thanks to those that help us.

However, we also thank God for food, shelter, etc as if He's another person helping us out.

Aren't you thankful for your life? If so, who do you thank?


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The Uncreator
post Jul 8 2010, 01:29 AM
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QUOTE (Azzaboi @ Jul 7 2010, 05:04 PM) *
Christians go out of the way to help others. Christians believe that life is eternal, what good you do will stick with you.

One of the marks of a Christian is the desire to help others. Because it changes the believer's heart.



In some ways this kind of peeves me. Christians in this sense do it because they fear some sort of punishment - Or seek to claim there place in heaven (or any of the different variants). I have always helped people because I believe in being a good person, not because I think I will be rewarded after death or will be punished. (It seems kind of selfish to do something to further assure your "reward")

I know however, This is a form of generalization - And a lot of religious people are by there own nature, good people. Its just that thought is always in the back of my head. I have friends that are Buddhists , Atheists, Catholics, Jews, Christians, and there all good people by there nature. But still...There is always that thought...

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Alexiaden93
post Jul 8 2010, 02:06 AM
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QUOTE (Azzaboi @ Jul 8 2010, 01:04 AM) *
Aren't you thankful for your life? If so, who do you thank?

Just feel like mixing humour with vulgarity:
Whoever sold my father the drinks.


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Azzaboi
post Jul 8 2010, 02:09 AM
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QUOTE
In some ways this kind of peeves me. Christians in this sense do it because they fear some sort of punishment


I actually couldn't agree with you more...

I don't like how some Christians will say repent or go to hell. (there is mixed believes with this and even what hell is)

I don't like the idea of punishment for not doing good or you only do it for a reward. (there is punishment for evil even here on earth, good comes from the heart)

I don't like how some hate gays, etc (we are actually told to love one another and not judge others)

I don't like how they put In God we trust on the dollar bill (money is the root of evil)

I don't like the fact that some people expect Christians to be perfect or something. We all will sin. (Even God says we will sin as the fleash is weak, that's why we ask forgiveness)

Even being a Christian there is different believes and branches, Catholics, Lutherans, Anglicans or Baptists, for example.

They miss the point, you don't just follow a religion in fear. You don't change something just so it suits you.

All it says is God is your creator (like a parent), gave you free-will and earth (like a playground so your not a robot or bored) and simply wants your friendship (a friend lets you into their home). A true friend is someone who you can depend on, you shouldn't have friends just to mosh off from (for items, riches, etc).

Lot of religious people are by there own nature, good people, as you said, there are mission groups which help the poor, homeless, famine, etc. All with nothing in return. So even though there's some which may do it for the wrong reasons or be misguilded, there's a lot of good from it too and we are all different. Don't stick a stereotype onto it.

This post has been edited by Azzaboi: Jul 8 2010, 02:14 AM


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tonyparnham
post Jul 9 2010, 08:13 PM
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Hi Azzaboi,
Strangely enough 90% of christians have never read the bible and from your answers it seems you hav'nt either. Genesis the first book, is full of killings, genocide, child abuse, rape, incest, and most of it is instigated or carried out by god, try reading it. I did'nt want to be associated with these morals anymore so I quit religion and threw the towel in, I could not imagine or believe a Supreme, Divine, Omnipotent higher deity could inspire these atrocities.
The only way that I could believe in a god is that if one day in eternity he was bored of paradise so decided to create something and during the process it all went drastically wrong and inadvertantly he created this 'singularity expansion' or 'Big Bang' and lost control over everything including the power to reverse it. That would be a reason why he or she remains obscure and not there.....But then again thats completely absurd as he would'nt be god then because now he's become IMPERFECT.
Tony
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Azzaboi
post Jul 10 2010, 02:31 AM
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Hi Tony, firstly what bible have you been reading? It's full of moral and actions to learn from. No I've haven't read all of it, but I have actually read it.

Second, the world is full of that stuff (welcome to the real world), better ignore it and not learn right from wrong. Maybe we can hide it under the bed and not watch the news? Hide under a rock somewhere?

Third, giving us free-will is where it went wrong. You give a computer robot A.I and it starts screwing up yet you still do it to be more interesting. Now less take away the A (Artificial) from the I, intelligence to do what you want. Yet you still complain and cry I'm imperfect, the world we control is imperfect, therefore God must be imperfect because He created me?

Seriously? When you grow up, you should learn your responsible for your own actions?



Yes, the bible tells of murder like the story of Cain and Abel. Cain jealous of Abel killed him, a brother killing a brother.

No one should play favorites. Nobody gets off easily. Not the hot-headed first son, or his younger brother who does a good deed and suffers for it.

The story of Cain and Abel happens to be a something which we can learn from - the way people behave. It also shows how one sin can lead to another. Jealously can take control. What is worse, he failed to listening to the warnings.

Cain has to live with the guilt. The family and others also is affected. Abel died (but would still live on in heaven). It's to show us our actions also affect those around us and not just us.

This story has challenged the conscience of believers and non-believers alike and inspired writers down through the centuries.

Would you rather learn from the story or from it happening to your own family? I know sometimes you can get so annoyed for a moment think about killing someone you dearly love and would seriously regret it later. Hopefully it would never actually happen.

This post has been edited by Azzaboi: Jul 10 2010, 02:37 AM


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Marek Rojewski
post Jul 10 2010, 08:59 AM
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"No I've haven't read all of it, but I have actually read it." - so actually You didn't read it, just read some parts of it. There are parts like:
"Wives obey your husbands", "Slaves obey your masters, both those gentle and those cruel" - but those are "just" old fashioned rules of mankind.

Yet there are few nicer, like GENOCIDE:
Deuteronomy - God commanded the Israelites to wipe all Canaanites.
Samuel - Amalekites were exterminated, against "by Gods will".
The Flood - everyone was killed, expect one family, that was "cool".

In fact God of the Christian, Jews and Muslims is a bloody murderer.

"Thanks God" that Germany was lead by Hitler, not God, because than they would win and exterminate everyone with even bigger vigor.


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Alexiaden93
post Jul 10 2010, 12:32 PM
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QUOTE (Azzaboi @ Jul 10 2010, 02:31 AM) *
Hi Tony, firstly what bible have you been reading? It's full of moral and actions to learn from. No I've haven't read all of it, but I have actually read it.

Second, the world is full of that stuff (welcome to the real world), better ignore it and not learn right from wrong. Maybe we can hide it under the bed and not watch the news? Hide under a rock somewhere?

Third, giving us free-will is where it went wrong. You give a computer robot A.I and it starts screwing up yet you still do it to be more interesting. Now less take away the A (Artificial) from the I, intelligence to do what you want. Yet you still complain and cry I'm imperfect, the world we control is imperfect, therefore God must be imperfect because He created me?

Seriously? When you grow up, you should learn your responsible for your own actions?



Yes, the bible tells of murder like the story of Cain and Abel. Cain jealous of Abel killed him, a brother killing a brother.

No one should play favorites. Nobody gets off easily. Not the hot-headed first son, or his younger brother who does a good deed and suffers for it.

The story of Cain and Abel happens to be a something which we can learn from - the way people behave. It also shows how one sin can lead to another. Jealously can take control. What is worse, he failed to listening to the warnings.

Cain has to live with the guilt. The family and others also is affected. Abel died (but would still live on in heaven). It's to show us our actions also affect those around us and not just us.

This story has challenged the conscience of believers and non-believers alike and inspired writers down through the centuries.

Would you rather learn from the story or from it happening to your own family? I know sometimes you can get so annoyed for a moment think about killing someone you dearly love and would seriously regret it later. Hopefully it would never actually happen.

I would say there are very few children that learn right from wrong by means of Biblical preaching from their parents. What is the case, however, is that fairytales are used to convey morals in society. I mean, 5-year olds rarely understand Archaic English, so yeah...

Law and Constitution replaces the Ten Commandments, Tribunal Justice replaces God's Wrath and Judgement Day, fairytales such as Cinderella and Snow White replace the moral aspect of the Bible...

Am I wrong? Of course, we are talking 2010 here, and seeing as the Bible no longer has a monopoly in expression and diffusion of ideas, what can you expect? Society wants to move away from a belief in a Divine Being who has predestined their future.

I saw a documentary about the "Satanic Verses" by Salman Rushdie, who was bestowed knighthood by the Queen of Britain, and I realised how dogmatic and murderous religion can truly be; in this case it was Islam. People burned his book, and as mentioned in the documentary, most associate book-burning with the NSDAP (Nazi party) before and during the Second World War.

And we're talking 1989 here! Religion is still as dogmatic as it used to be, how can you say otherwise? I mean allegedly, the terrorists responsible for what now is known as Ground Zero did what they did in the name of Allah, no matter what any other Muslim says defending his faith.

I am talking about Muslims now, but I am trying to show you how Religion does NOT encourage nor promote free thinking, it's the exact opposite.

QUOTE (Marek Rojewski @ Jul 10 2010, 08:59 AM) *
"Thanks God" that Germany was lead by Hitler, not God, because than they would win and exterminate everyone with even bigger vigor.

Reminds me of the Crusades... wink.gif


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jstcrsn
post Jul 10 2010, 01:08 PM
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[quote name='Alexiaden93' post='490346' date='Jul 10 2010, 12:32 PM']I would say there are very few children that learn right from wrong by means of Biblical preaching from their parents. What is the case, however, is that fairytales are used to convey morals in society. I mean, 5-year olds rarely understand Archaic English, so yeah...

Law and Constitution replaces the Ten Commandments, Tribunal Justice replaces God's Wrath and Judgement Day, fairytales such as Cinderella and Snow White replace the moral aspect of the Bible...

Am I wrong? Of course, we are talking 2010 here, and seeing as the Bible no longer has a monopoly in expression and diffusion of ideas, what can you expect? Society wants to move away from a belief in a Divine Being who has predestined their future.

I saw a documentary about the "Satanic Verses" by Salman Rushdie, who was bestowed knighthood by the Queen of Britain, and I realised how dogmatic and murderous religion can truly be; in this case it was Islam. People burned his book, and as mentioned in the documentary, most associate book-burning with the NSDAP (Nazi party) before and during the Second World War.

And we're talking 1989 here! Religion is still as dogmatic as it used to be, how can you say otherwise? I mean allegedly, the terrorists responsible for what now is known as Ground Zero did what they did in the name of Allah, no matter what any other Muslim says defending his faith.

I am talking about Muslims now, but I am trying to show you how Religion does NOT encourage nor promote free thinking, it's the exact



Haven't you found that map yet---Peace



this is off subject ,but how do I only get a partial quote and still have it show up as quoted

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Saoirse O'Shea
post Jul 10 2010, 01:21 PM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Jul 10 2010, 12:08 PM) *
this is off subject ,but how do I only get a partial quote and still have it show up as quoted


You probably just need to manually add the appropriate '[quote]' and/or '[/unquote]'.

If you do this previewing the mail first can help to make sure you haven't left out any of them because if you have then you'll get an error message when you try to post the message.


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Alexiaden93
post Jul 10 2010, 01:49 PM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Jul 10 2010, 01:08 PM) *
this is off subject ,but how do I only get a partial quote and still have it show up as quoted

You delete what you do not want to quote, as I just did.


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jstcrsn
post Jul 10 2010, 01:53 PM
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QUOTE (Alexiaden93 @ Jul 10 2010, 01:49 PM) *
You delete what you do not want to quote, as I just did.

got to love that delete button
if only life was as easy
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Alexiaden93
post Jul 10 2010, 01:54 PM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Jul 10 2010, 01:53 PM) *
got to love that delete button
if only life was as easy

It's up to you to make sure pressing "delete" in life won't be necessary. smile.gif


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