20 Pages V  « < 16 17 18 19 20 >  
Closed TopicStart new topic
> Do You Believe In A God Or Gods?
Religion
Do you believe in a God or Gods?
Theist [ 47 ] ** [36.43%]
Agnostic [ 25 ] ** [19.38%]
Atheist [ 44 ] ** [34.11%]
Other [ 13 ] ** [10.08%]
Total Votes: 129
  
Alexiaden93
post Jul 11 2010, 11:31 PM
Post #341


Learning Rock Star
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1.518
Joined: 16-April 09
From: Sandnes, Norway
Member No.: 7.072



QUOTE (Azzaboi @ Jul 11 2010, 08:10 PM) *
Okay say we started off as small microbes and evolved from monkeys (some humans are said to act like monkeys but thats all that fact proves), why some microbes have XY and others have XX chromosome, male and female? Why can't we interspecies with animals (without playing god and messing it up ownselves)?



Believe me I have looked at both side fairly before making any selection and my personality I analyze and question everything I don't understand. Even as I play my guitar I will come up with a thousand questions about it. I also ignore facts and myths which don't make sense, until I work it out all the small pieces to something which makes sense to me.

God is hovering over us ready to strike us down with lightning - Well that's based off Myth and it's not even the god I believe in, it's Zeus. This is something people make up in books and fairy tales and mix into religion. You are right to be questioning the following of something like that. That's however is not what I believe God to be.



The water is necessary for the survival of the animals and plants. Most of the water runs off the land and back into the ocean. This water also carries the significant amounts of land materials into the ocean. After billions of years, all the land ends up in the ocean and earth becomes a waterworld. The problem is that the earth has not become a waterworld. Why is that? (I love the movie Waterworld by the way)

The missing factor that prevents the earth from becoming a waterworld are the two processes that actually build land masses. These geologic processes are tectonic activity (which cause earthquakes) and volcanism. Both of these processes are intertwined, since volcanism results from the great continental plates colliding with each other. So, without plate tectonics and the accompanying earthquakes, there would be no land masses on planet earth, since all the land would eventually end up in the ocean.

This process is described in the Bible, which claims in several passages that God created the earth completely covered by water before the land was formed (pretty good "guess" by a bunch of unscientific people!). The Bible describes how God caused the mountains to rise and form the dry land. So, without tectonic activity and earthquakes, the earth would have begun as a waterworld and would still be a waterworld at this point.

It also has been found out from science, the land was one big chuck to start out with. Broken down into different lands. The Bible has even explained that. Most people tend to be so racist and hate the other countries (or not understand), yet religion suggests we are all from the same blood line, therefore one of the same, all created equal. The colour of skin doesn't matter. Is that so bad to believe?

God's purpose for the creation of the earth was to provide a place for human beings to live. Without land, human beings would never be possible. Religion explains why humans are more intellient over animals, etc.

The "natural evil" described by atheists actually represents the design of an intelligent Creator. Without earthquakes and volcanoes, there would be no land masses on planet earth, and human life would be impossible. Atheists have missed some pretty fundamental principles from earth sciences in condemning God for allowing earthquakes. God's creation of "natural evil" is actually necessary design.


Atheists often claim that the presence of evil is an argument against the existence of God. The Christian God is supposed to be both loving and all-powerful. Despite these characteristics, God seems to be unable or unwilling to prevent the vast amount of evil and suffering in the world. The atheist concludes that either God is not loving or not all-powerful or that God does not exist, because if He did exist, He could stop all the suffering.

In fact, the Bible indicates that God is love. The Bible also indicates that God is perfect.

However, God Himself stated that part of the original creation was "not good." The Bible states that the current universe is not perfect, but was designed to be temporary and will be replaced with a perfect universe that will be permanent. Science also tells us that the universe was designed to be temporary.

Why would God create an imperfect, temporary universe only to replace it later with a perfect one? Why wouldn't God have created a perfect universe in the first place? (why aren't we all just in heaven?)

God's purposes in creating the universe go beyond merely creating free will beings that love Him in this temporary universe. (remember God is love)

The Bible says that God allows temporary, bounded evil in order to allow free will beings to have the ability to love and to make choices.

The atheist also makes the assumption that all pain, suffering, and death are bad or evil. In fact, physical pain is absolutely vital to our survival. If we felt no pain, we would do things to ourselves that could be very destructive. For example, if we didn't feel pain when we touched a hot object, we would not react until we saw our flesh smoking. This is obviously not a good thing to do. Pain tells us we need to react to a situation before serious damage occurs.

Many things that people consider to be bad are, in fact, useful in our spiritual growth. The Bible says that trials in our lives produce perseverance, which helps make us mature and complete.

All people will suffer at least somewhat because of bad choices that others make. In addition, because of the temporary nature of the universe, some bad things will happen to us due to "bad luck" or chance. However, these things will teach us to be more sensitive to the needs of others, and will prepare us to show love to others when they suffer through similar things. God want us to learn from this life.

Yes, God could have eliminated all evil in the design of His universe. However, such a universe would have been unable to accomplish the main purpose for which God created the universe in the first place - to allow free will choice by human beings. This would of also restrict the minds of human beings turning them into robots. In order to make it into Heaven (which is perfect), all it says is we must leave our sins/evil behind (Jesus is a symbol of this).

Although the gift is "free," it will cost you your sin, selfishness, and pride. Since none of these character traits are allowed into heaven, those who insist upon holding onto these traits cannot enter into heaven, but must be separated from God in a place called hell. Therefore, those who go to hell do so voluntarily, preferring hell to complete submission to a holy and just God.

It never actually goes into detail about Hell, people just guess its fire and there been told of a lake of fire (not everyone is casted into that lake). It says those who are sent to hell are restrained through punishment so that they won't be able to torture others.

Some skeptics have pointed out that an omniscient God should never change His mind, since He always should know what was going to happen. In reality, God never changes His mind, but warns rebellious people to give them the opportunity to change their minds before He judges them.

A lot of that believe is then clouded over by people's fairy tales and myths. I enjoy the movies as much as anyone else, but I don't take them into fact.

However, I believe in that there's a God, and you believe chance and well it just did from nothing? Earth is a rock and spinning out of control and could splat into the sun at any time or we are mutants that one human will change and not another. Or maybe Apes could take over and control the world - The planet of the apes (I love that movie too)? Tell me what you believe? I've never actually heard any other side to question and get an answer from yet and am quite interested. Either it been nothing or evolution and no one has gone beyond a point in evolution yet and explained it at all. I'm all ears!

ps. I could write a book myself, "How to better yourself learning from a complete lie" (if it turned out to be a lie), it's helped me a lot in my understanding of the world, action-reactions and people, if anything.


QUOTE
God is hovering over us ready to strike us down with lightning - Well that's based off Myth and it's not even the god I believe in, it's Zeus. This is something people make up in books and fairy tales and mix into religion. You are right to be questioning the following of something like that. That's however is not what I believe God to be.

I disregard whatever religion you follow. Why is your religion superior to that of the Romans? These books and fairytales you speak of were actually religion before, now known as mythology, they are not mere whims put in books.

QUOTE
This process is described in the Bible, which claims in several passages that God created the earth completely covered by water before the land was formed (pretty good "guess" by a bunch of unscientific people!). The Bible describes how God caused the mountains to rise and form the dry land. So, without tectonic activity and earthquakes, the earth would have begun as a waterworld and would still be a waterworld at this point.

You are saying that because a scientific fact is described in the Bible, God is the master of Science, and all technological advancement is actually thanks to religion? What if somebody sat down 50 BC and wrote "God decided that human emotion is majoritarily determined via the amygdala", well that means that whoever WROTE the Bible knew that. Not good enough mate. Other than this you're basically stating conventional scientific knowledge, well done.

QUOTE
It also has been found out from science, the land was one big chuck to start out with. Broken down into different lands. The Bible has even explained that. Most people tend to be so racist and hate the other countries (or not understand), yet religion suggests we are all from the same blood line, therefore one of the same, all created equal. The colour of skin doesn't matter. Is that so bad to believe?

Oh alright... Different colour is good. Christians hate Muslims, Muslims hate Christians, and we all hate the Jews. We just happen to be a different colour, but so what? Why doesn't God tell us to love each no matter which version of Him we decide to pursue? Yet another failed strategic move from religion, trying to unify a people that in fact would never have been so dispersed in belief. Did you know that slave trade during the late Medieval Ages and early Renaissance were largely justified by men's arrogance due to their civilisation's religion? Why do we see them as superior? Because they live in straw huts and worship stones and chunks of wood. Religion much?

QUOTE
In fact, the Bible indicates that God is love. The Bible also indicates that God is perfect.

However, God Himself stated that part of the original creation was "not good." The Bible states that the current universe is not perfect, but was designed to be temporary and will be replaced with a perfect universe that will be permanent. Science also tells us that the universe was designed to be temporary.

Now I must congratulate God on his strategic move. Saying that although he is perfect, his creation isn't, this must make all the dying people all over the world feel very religious. Oh, and we're just temporary? That's even more reassuring. So why exactly are we temporary? Can't the perfect Creator create something perfect on the first try? Does the Bible lie in qualifying God as perfect? If this is a lie, can we trust the Bible?

QUOTE
The atheist also makes the assumption that all pain, suffering, and death are bad or evil. In fact, physical pain is absolutely vital to our survival. If we felt no pain, we would do things to ourselves that could be very destructive. For example, if we didn't feel pain when we touched a hot object, we would not react until we saw our flesh smoking. This is obviously not a good thing to do. Pain tells us we need to react to a situation before serious damage occurs.

Many things that people consider to be bad are, in fact, useful in our spiritual growth. The Bible says that trials in our lives produce perseverance, which helps make us mature and complete.

I agree completely, yet merciless slaughter from a disease which cannot be cured no matter the perseverance is not a fair trial is it? "pain, suffering" and "death" are two completely different categories. Alright, suffering is fine, it's a trial designed to encourage (in some sadistic way) perseverance, but is "death (...) vital to our survival" ? And yes, evolution has developed nerve connections in our body that instinctually make us avoid pain. If only we could avoid the pain that was imposed to us, and which inevitably resulted in death, all in the will of God. Similarly, it's funny how God gives us an immune system, which might or not prevent death, then gives us false hope, serving us a lethal helping of HIV which cannot be defeated.

QUOTE
Yes, God could have eliminated all evil in the design of His universe. However, such a universe would have been unable to accomplish the main purpose for which God created the universe in the first place - to allow free will choice by human beings. This would of also restrict the minds of human beings turning them into robots. In order to make it into Heaven (which is perfect), all it says is we must leave our sins/evil behind (Jesus is a symbol of this).

Your arguments are contradictory. On one side you say that God keeps evil in his design in order to permit free will, and that without ying (evil) we cannot appreciate yang (good). On the other side, you say that it doesn't matter if humans are punished or whatever they do, because they will be judged later on (Judgement Day). In other words, God might as well and SHOULD as well, according to your logic, let humans do whatever they want, without handing us disease, because we will be judged, don't you worry about that. So why do the Africans have the highest death rate from HIV/AIDS? I thought God was against racism. dry.gif


To conclude, I will have to say that you don't seem to have considered all possibilities concerning the fallacy of the concept that is religion. If you had, I wouldn't have any of my retaliations available, seeing as you could predict my every thought. Anyway, I do agree that we are here to learn, and hope that although you seem strong in faith, also learn from what I am trying to convey. wink.gif

QUOTE (Azzaboi @ Jul 11 2010, 09:18 PM) *
Sigh... again rather than saying your own believe, you simply attempt to poke holes in others...

What is good without evil? What is sin (something everyone on earth ends up doing) without forgiveness? Religion is all about explaining this, yet you say it's not essential to know? Religion explains why and how things are, yet you say it's not necessary to learn any knowledge of that?

Rather than making a friend and building a relationship, you suggest waiting to your at the house door, knock and wonder why he thinks your a stranger?

I strongly disagree. The fallacy of religion is that it only conveys the opinion of society 2000 years ago. Christianity is against homosexuality, and people were stoned for it. Today, homosexuality is accepted because, OH WAIT God wants people to have free will, but yeah that does include the free will to dodge of myriad of high momentum stones thrown at you... Silly me. And let's not forget that the stereotypical Catholic priest likes to... You know wink.gif

In this sense, religion is wrong. Wait, does perfect God also admit that his religion isn't perfect either? That would be SO coincidentally funny.


--------------------
My YouTube Channel
Lost in all the 2000+ GMC lessons? Check my Lesson Plan


Guitars
Fender American Standard Stratocaster - Olympic White body, Maple fretboard, White Pearl pickguard, 21 frets, SSS
Yamaha Pacifica

Amplifier
Marshall 15CDR, 45 watts


Recording equipment/software
Line 6 POD Studio GX
Logitech QuickCam Pro 9000
Reaper v3.04
Sony Vegas Pro 8.0
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Azzaboi
post Jul 12 2010, 12:32 AM
Post #342


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1.485
Joined: 23-March 09
From: New Zealand
Member No.: 6.965



This website contains written knowledge to make you a better guitarist, but oops the guys that re-wrote it got a few notes wrong and some mis-spells. Better leave and ignore it all, better yet wipe it off completely and not even attempt to understand. We don't need it written down, pen or paper to remember stuff... Same logic to what you just said.

Someones religion just might be flawed or not 100%, also the bible is just a record of that been translated over and over, etc. Your logic suggest to ignore it completely because of that (even the stuff that does seem to fit) and never find out the truth anyways. Yet again you have never told me anything remotely better or more logical to follow which explains it all.

You also judge the actions of man and base it upon that? Even those every man of flesh is known to sin. Take that logic and completely ignore your government, ignore anyone for that matter, because they will sin. Take the negatives in life, like the 911. That the stereotype of America boosting it's world power and others getting jealous due to that. Don't learn from your mistakes and simply start a war. You could easily just as say America was racist and didnt have a female or black president until that occurred. That's the same logics you follow? Kinda flawed?

God says don't judge others - you say Christianity is against homosexuality, and people were stoned for it... is basically against what God points out. Yes, Christians sin, maybe mis-understand, nobody here is perfect. I don't see myself going around stoning homosexuals just because I believe in God or follow a base of a religion.

People get affected by physical and mental diseases. Some diseases are the result of violating natural laws such as alcohol or cigarette smoking related diseases. Some are unexplainable. We do not pretend to have all the answers. Christians also happen to help them out. African people happen to also full of happiness and greatful for even the little they get. If your've suffered, you feel so much more for the smaller things, most other would take for granted.

I've never actually contradicted myself. God just said earth wasn't perfect or man's body flesh is weak and will sin - there's good reason for this and Ive already attempted to explain above.

You also avoid saying anything you believe in as you fear it to will be questioned? Strong to prove something wrong, but not to show anything which is remotely right? It's like saying 1+1=3 (wrong!)... er ok that maybe so but... umm why? Without the correction, saying wrong means nothing. You simple replace it with 1+1=(nothing), not good enough for me. Even attempting to explain why it maybe wrong doesn't matter without the correct answer to replace it.

This post has been edited by Azzaboi: Jul 12 2010, 12:45 AM


--------------------


Play Games Arcade
Take a break, Play Games! Play the best free online flash games at Aaron's Game Zone like Bloons Tower Defense 4!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Alexiaden93
post Jul 12 2010, 12:38 AM
Post #343


Learning Rock Star
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1.518
Joined: 16-April 09
From: Sandnes, Norway
Member No.: 7.072



QUOTE (Azzaboi @ Jul 12 2010, 12:32 AM) *
This website contains written knowledge to make you a better guitarist, but oops the guys that re-wrote it got a few notes wrong and some mis-spells. Better leave and ignore it all, better yet wipe it off completely and not even attempt to understand. We don't need it written down, pen or paper to remember stuff... Same logic to what you just said.

Someones religion just might be flawed or not 100%, also the bible is just a record of that been translated over and over, etc. Your logic suggest to ignore it because of that and never find out the truth anyways. Yet again you have never told me anything remotely better or more logical to follow which explains it all.

You also judge the actions of man and base it upon that? Even those every man of flesh is known to sin. Take that logic and completely ignore your government, ignore anyone for that matter, because they will sin. Take the negatives in life, like the 911. That the stereotype of America boosting it's world power and others getting jealous due to that. Don't learn from your mistakes and simply start a war. You could easily just as say America was racist and didnt have a female or black president until that occurred. That's the same logics you follow? Kinda flawed?

God says don't judge others - you say Christianity is against homosexuality, and people were stoned for it... is basically against what God points out. Yes, Christians sin, maybe mis-understand, nobody here is perfect. I don't see myself going around stoning homosexuals just because I believe in God or follow a base of a religion.

People get affected by physical and mental diseases. Some diseases are the result of violating natural laws such as alcohol or cigarette smoking related diseases. Some are unexplainable. We do not pretend to have all the answers. Christians also happen to help them out. African people happen to also full of happiness and greatful for even the little they get. If your've suffered, you feel so much more for the smaller things, most other would take for granted.

I've never actually contradicted myself. God just said earth wasn't perfect or man's body flesh is weak and will sin - there's good reason for this and Ive already attempted to explain above.

You also avoid saying anything you believe in as you fear it to will be questioned?

I believe in logic. You question my logic. I believe in sympathy and empathy, now I apologise if I will go to Hell for not being a Christian empath.

What more is there to say? I believe that human beings have a right to live their life independent of whatever Dogma is out there. What makes Christianity more valid than other beliefs, such as worshipping a silky chair? Oh wait, you're a Christian, and that makes Christianity valid in your eyes. You cannot see outside the filter of your perception. It's only natural that you should say something like "I am not saying Christianity is superior to other beliefs" yet this is what you're implying every God-given second of your defence of Christianity.


--------------------
My YouTube Channel
Lost in all the 2000+ GMC lessons? Check my Lesson Plan


Guitars
Fender American Standard Stratocaster - Olympic White body, Maple fretboard, White Pearl pickguard, 21 frets, SSS
Yamaha Pacifica

Amplifier
Marshall 15CDR, 45 watts


Recording equipment/software
Line 6 POD Studio GX
Logitech QuickCam Pro 9000
Reaper v3.04
Sony Vegas Pro 8.0
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Azzaboi
post Jul 12 2010, 12:55 AM
Post #344


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1.485
Joined: 23-March 09
From: New Zealand
Member No.: 6.965



I didn't say your wrong or you must believe me ... I simply pointed out what I believe and I asked what do you believe in instead. Totally different thing. People asked me questions and I tried to explain my side of understanding. I ask questions back and get no reply...

There's many different believes, what one of those makes more sense to you than the other?
Or do you not believe in anything and choose to ignore any questions of why? Throw everything out and lalalalaaaa!

If anyone, even the greatest scientist in the world could explain the reason behind the 'Big Bang' theory and it's actual start, I would be happy to listen. Where's your logics in that?

This post has been edited by Azzaboi: Jul 12 2010, 01:03 AM


--------------------


Play Games Arcade
Take a break, Play Games! Play the best free online flash games at Aaron's Game Zone like Bloons Tower Defense 4!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Alexiaden93
post Jul 12 2010, 12:57 AM
Post #345


Learning Rock Star
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1.518
Joined: 16-April 09
From: Sandnes, Norway
Member No.: 7.072



QUOTE (Azzaboi @ Jul 12 2010, 12:55 AM) *
I didn't say your wrong or you must believe me ... I simply pointed out what I believe and I asked what do you believe in instead. Totally different thing.

There's many different believes, what one of those makes more sense to you than the other?
Or do you not believe in anything and choose to ignore any questions of why? Throw everything out and lalalalaaaa!

I told you what I believe in. None of the religions make sense to me, thus I don't pretend to know why.


--------------------
My YouTube Channel
Lost in all the 2000+ GMC lessons? Check my Lesson Plan


Guitars
Fender American Standard Stratocaster - Olympic White body, Maple fretboard, White Pearl pickguard, 21 frets, SSS
Yamaha Pacifica

Amplifier
Marshall 15CDR, 45 watts


Recording equipment/software
Line 6 POD Studio GX
Logitech QuickCam Pro 9000
Reaper v3.04
Sony Vegas Pro 8.0
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
jstcrsn
post Jul 12 2010, 01:02 AM
Post #346


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.641
Joined: 29-March 08
From: kansas, USA
Member No.: 4.733



QUOTE (The Uncreator @ Jul 11 2010, 02:14 PM) *
God does not have to exist for there to be right and wrong - You as a human, Know that murder is wrong. True, there is no cosmic law that binds you not to kill under some penalty, Nor will the cosmos judge you - But the existence or non-existence of God has no bearing on whether murder is wrong. Morals can exist outside of religion, Whether or not historically morals such as these come from the creation or implementation of religion is irrelevant ultimately.

But then again, as Carl Sagan did put it - "the cosmos is all there ever was - is ,or will be - and we look to the stars because we are made of the same carbon material". Maybe we know killing is wrong because it is a hindrance to us as a species? And killing our own kind is wrong? The cosmos' and nature could have imbued us with a sense of self-preservation (Which it most certainly did) so we derive these such morals from these "genetic instincts", as it were.

And, on a side note, just in case anyone wants to throw this curve ball at me (Atheists, Agnostics, and Christians have asked me this)- If we were to believe that right and wrong come from those who gave us religion, But we do not believe in the existence of a God - Then it would seem that people themselves derived these morals, With no Divine Intervention. Thus God did not imbue these morals in us.

Just speculation and some ideas. My point is - God's existence is irrelevant when it comes to right and wrong, Especially in today's society.

I know we have sort of talked about this before , and I meant to refer to all to answer this
how is there any difference between a Lion chasing a gazel fir diner and hitler killing the jews in a survival of the fitest world
hitler was just trying to prove he was the fitest ---He wasn't-and thus got replaced by the more fit
fulfilling his role created by the stuff
I don't see any diference in beauty between hitler fulfiling the role the starstuff gave him -- the lion eating the gazel- fulfilling the way the cosmos created him- or mother teresa fulfilling her role in loving
if they are all doing what they were created to do ,( by the star stuff) how can any of us judge them to be right or wrong


This post has been edited by jstcrsn: Jul 12 2010, 01:03 AM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Alexiaden93
post Jul 12 2010, 01:13 AM
Post #347


Learning Rock Star
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1.518
Joined: 16-April 09
From: Sandnes, Norway
Member No.: 7.072



QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Jul 12 2010, 01:02 AM) *
I know we have sort of talked about this before , and I meant to refer to all to answer this
how is there any difference between a Lion chasing a gazel fir diner and hitler killing the jews in a survival of the fitest world
hitler was just trying to prove he was the fitest ---He wasn't-and thus got replaced by the more fit
fulfilling his role created by the stuff
I don't see any diference in beauty between hitler fulfiling the role the starstuff gave him -- the lion eating the gazel- fulfilling the way the cosmos created him- or mother teresa fulfilling her role in loving
if they are all doing what they were created to do ,( by the star stuff) how can any of us judge them to be right or wrong

We can't judge them. As you have all previously stated, God has a plan for us all, and he created Hitler in his own image. God is omniscient, and has predestined all events on his creation Earth. Let's not blame Hitler, let's blame God.

... You started it tongue.gif


--------------------
My YouTube Channel
Lost in all the 2000+ GMC lessons? Check my Lesson Plan


Guitars
Fender American Standard Stratocaster - Olympic White body, Maple fretboard, White Pearl pickguard, 21 frets, SSS
Yamaha Pacifica

Amplifier
Marshall 15CDR, 45 watts


Recording equipment/software
Line 6 POD Studio GX
Logitech QuickCam Pro 9000
Reaper v3.04
Sony Vegas Pro 8.0
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Uncreator
post Jul 12 2010, 01:14 AM
Post #348


Fire Up The Blades, Moderator
Group Icon

Group: GMC Senior
Posts: 8.933
Joined: 6-March 07
From: St. Petersburg, Florida
Member No.: 1.304



QUOTE (Azzaboi @ Jul 11 2010, 04:32 PM) *
Someones religion just might be flawed or not 100%, also the bible is just a record of that been translated over and over, etc. Your logic suggest to ignore it completely because of that (even the stuff that does seem to fit) and never find out the truth anyways. Yet again you have never told me anything remotely better or more logical to follow which explains it all.


Well to be honest, and once again I am not trying to make it personal - But the credibility of any written text or document that has been continuously diluted by 2,000 years of language translation and different interpretations is a really good reason to question, and if a person feels necessary, disregard it.

I however, do not disregard the bible, or even think ill of it for any of these reasons. I see the bible as I would see any religious historical text, whether it be from Egyptians, Romans, Greeks, or whatever. But I do see it as just that, Historical text. There is nothing in the bible that separates it from any religion that preceded it, Whether its polytheistic or monotheistic, Ancient or modern, Western or Eastern, Its the same to me.

I think you also might have a misconception on the traditional Atheist or Scientific persons point of view. I don't think Alexiaden doesn't believe in anything, and just ignores questions and "lalala's" as it were - for the sake of it. Its quite the opposite I think. (Excuse me Alexiaden if this is wrong, just a quick guess as to some following similarities I'm pointing out) But...

I think he is like me, Conventional religion does not make sense to me, It requires too much of blind faith (as I see it). Science however, is all about showing why something works, why something is, and handing solid, physical proof. Religion, is all traced back - all its morals and ideologies - To basically, its the way it because God did it. And thats not good enough for people like me, or him if he sees it this way.

Just because I'm not religious, does not mean I don't believe. I believe more firmly in the Cosmos, Science, Nature, The Self, Species, and Moral goodness than the average christian believes in there own faith - Quite possibly due the fact that I can have the support of fact, and not faith - blind or not.

Not meant to present any more arguments, just meant to show you that just because someone doesn't believe in a religion, doesn't mean they don't believe in something.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
jstcrsn
post Jul 12 2010, 01:15 AM
Post #349


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.641
Joined: 29-March 08
From: kansas, USA
Member No.: 4.733



I just wanted to ad , that some might find this thread to be tiresome
but I have enjoyed the banter-and the other points of view
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Alexiaden93
post Jul 12 2010, 01:16 AM
Post #350


Learning Rock Star
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1.518
Joined: 16-April 09
From: Sandnes, Norway
Member No.: 7.072



QUOTE (The Uncreator @ Jul 12 2010, 01:14 AM) *
Well to be honest, and once again I am not trying to make it personal - But the credibility of any written text or document that has been continuously diluted by 2,000 years of language translation and different interpretations is a really good reason to question, and if a person feels necessary, disregard it.

I however, do not disregard the bible, or even think ill of it for any of these reasons. I see the bible as I would see any religious historical text, whether it be from Egyptians, Romans, Greeks, or whatever. But I do see it as just that, Historical text. There is nothing in the bible that separates it from any religion that preceded it, Whether its polytheistic or monotheistic, Ancient or modern, Western or Eastern, Its the same to me.

I think you also might have a misconception on the traditional Atheist or Scientific persons point of view. I don't think Alexiaden doesn't believe in anything, and just ignores questions and "lalala's" as it were - for the sake of it. Its quite the opposite I think. (Excuse me Alexiaden if this is wrong, just a quick guess as to some following similarities I'm pointing out) But...

I think he is like me, Conventional religion does not make sense to me, It requires too much of blind faith (as I see it). Science however, is all about showing why something works, why something is, and handing solid, physical proof. Religion, is all traced back - all its morals and ideologies - To basically, its the way it because God did it. And thats not good enough for people like me, or him if he sees it this way.

Just because I'm not religious, does not mean I don't believe. I believe more firmly in the Cosmos, Science, Nature, The Self, Species, and Moral goodness than the average christian believes in there own faith - Quite possibly due the fact that I can have the support of fact, and not faith - blind or not.

Not meant to present any more arguments, just meant to show you that just because someone doesn't believe in a religion, doesn't mean they don't believe in something.

I agree. smile.gif Scroll up for my beliefs.


--------------------
My YouTube Channel
Lost in all the 2000+ GMC lessons? Check my Lesson Plan


Guitars
Fender American Standard Stratocaster - Olympic White body, Maple fretboard, White Pearl pickguard, 21 frets, SSS
Yamaha Pacifica

Amplifier
Marshall 15CDR, 45 watts


Recording equipment/software
Line 6 POD Studio GX
Logitech QuickCam Pro 9000
Reaper v3.04
Sony Vegas Pro 8.0
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Uncreator
post Jul 12 2010, 01:16 AM
Post #351


Fire Up The Blades, Moderator
Group Icon

Group: GMC Senior
Posts: 8.933
Joined: 6-March 07
From: St. Petersburg, Florida
Member No.: 1.304



QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Jul 11 2010, 05:02 PM) *
I know we have sort of talked about this before , and I meant to refer to all to answer this
how is there any difference between a Lion chasing a gazel fir diner and hitler killing the jews in a survival of the fitest world
hitler was just trying to prove he was the fitest ---He wasn't-and thus got replaced by the more fit
fulfilling his role created by the stuff
I don't see any diference in beauty between hitler fulfiling the role the starstuff gave him -- the lion eating the gazel- fulfilling the way the cosmos created him- or mother teresa fulfilling her role in loving
if they are all doing what they were created to do ,( by the star stuff) how can any of us judge them to be right or wrong



Since when was there science fact to support that the cosmos imposed upon us a predestined plan to commit genocide? or anything for that matter. The carbon material and other material that comes from the stars does not imbue us with any plan. That's more ridiculous sounding than religion.

Hitler commited genocide because the stars told him too? or because it was the cosmic plan of sort?

Ok...

Do not use Carl Sagan to justify something like hitler, Not only does it not make sense, but once again - There is no facts supporting that the stars imbue us with will, destiny, or a role to be fulfilled.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Azzaboi
post Jul 12 2010, 01:21 AM
Post #352


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1.485
Joined: 23-March 09
From: New Zealand
Member No.: 6.965



Alexiaden93 - Your logics suggest you shouldn't of been born in the first place. You shouldn't of been given free-will as you can't be trusted with it. Yet you would still wouldn't be happy if you didn't have free-will.

What's the difference between Hilter and George Bush? Both given great power and control over things. Both started as great leaders. With a great gift comes reponsiblilty. Both got corrupted by power. Others suffered due to their actions. Both fell and lost their power and will be remember that way. Isn't there a lesson to learn from that? Or do you just want a blame game?

Blaming others for your actions, never worked well even here on earth.

The Uncreator has a good point. However, "Religion, is all traced back - all its morals and ideologies - To basically, its the way it because God did it" can be proven just as much if not more than those other theories. It also supports a lot of the science fact we know so far, well before we even knew them. From what can be proven, to me... it makes a lot more sense.

This post has been edited by Azzaboi: Jul 12 2010, 01:29 AM


--------------------


Play Games Arcade
Take a break, Play Games! Play the best free online flash games at Aaron's Game Zone like Bloons Tower Defense 4!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Alexiaden93
post Jul 12 2010, 01:25 AM
Post #353


Learning Rock Star
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1.518
Joined: 16-April 09
From: Sandnes, Norway
Member No.: 7.072



QUOTE (Azzaboi @ Jul 12 2010, 01:21 AM) *
Alexiaden93 - Your logics suggest you shouldn't of been born in the first place. You shouldn't of been given free-will as you can't be trusted with it. Yet you would still wouldn't be happy if you didn't have free-will.

What's the difference between Hilter and George Bush? Both given great power and control over things. Both started as great leaders. With a great gift comes reponsiblilty. Both got corrupted by power. Others suffered due to their actions. Both fell and lost their power and will be remember that way. Isn't there a lesson to learn from that? Or do you just want a blame game?

Blaming others for your actions, never worked well even here on earth.

Stop blaming me for blaming others, that's just sheer hypocrisy.

Oh, and does my mouth say "insert here"? Because I can't remember having presented myself as a fan of George Bush... Well, I do like the famous George Book quotes, but not for the expected reason.

So why do my logics suggest I shouldn't be born in the first place?


--------------------
My YouTube Channel
Lost in all the 2000+ GMC lessons? Check my Lesson Plan


Guitars
Fender American Standard Stratocaster - Olympic White body, Maple fretboard, White Pearl pickguard, 21 frets, SSS
Yamaha Pacifica

Amplifier
Marshall 15CDR, 45 watts


Recording equipment/software
Line 6 POD Studio GX
Logitech QuickCam Pro 9000
Reaper v3.04
Sony Vegas Pro 8.0
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
jstcrsn
post Jul 12 2010, 01:26 AM
Post #354


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.641
Joined: 29-March 08
From: kansas, USA
Member No.: 4.733



QUOTE (Alexiaden93 @ Jul 12 2010, 01:13 AM) *
We can't judge them. As you have all previously stated, God has a plan for us all, and he created Hitler in his own image. God is omniscient, and has predestined all events on his creation Earth. Let's not blame Hitler, let's blame God.

... You started it tongue.gif

I'll see it through
I said if there is a God, what would it look like
now if there isn't ,what are the consequences
Please answer my ?
How are all things not beautiful because they are fulfilling their design by the star stuff
hitler
mother T
the lion
the child molester
the flower
the seasons
the guitarist
the drummer - although I play with a few that weren't very beautiful

in fact would it not be wrong for society to stop them all from fulfilling what the star stuff made them to be in the cosmos
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Uncreator
post Jul 12 2010, 01:28 AM
Post #355


Fire Up The Blades, Moderator
Group Icon

Group: GMC Senior
Posts: 8.933
Joined: 6-March 07
From: St. Petersburg, Florida
Member No.: 1.304



QUOTE (Azzaboi @ Jul 11 2010, 05:21 PM) *
What's the difference between Hilter and George Bush? Both given great power and control over things. Both started as great leaders. With a great gift comes reponsiblilty. Both got corrupted by power. Others suffered due to their actions. Both fell and lost their power and will be remember that way. Isn't there a lesson to learn from that? Or do you just want a blame game?

Blaming others for your actions, never worked well even here on earth.


We need to stop comparing people to hitler, It doesn't have any strength. And there are people just as worse and even more evil than him. If you want to understand facts or more importantly the truth, you would ask yourself WHY they lost power, WHY they got corrupted, HOW they ended up as leaders, WHAT period of time is this taking place in - tons of deciding factors, Its basic history.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
jstcrsn
post Jul 12 2010, 01:31 AM
Post #356


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.641
Joined: 29-March 08
From: kansas, USA
Member No.: 4.733



QUOTE (The Uncreator @ Jul 12 2010, 01:28 AM) *
We need to stop comparing people to hitler, It doesn't have any strength. And there are people just as worse and even more evil than him. If you want to understand facts or more importantly the truth, you would ask yourself WHY they lost power, WHY they got corrupted, HOW they ended up as leaders, WHAT period of time is this taking place in - tons of deciding factors, Its basic history.

there are - and most of them persuaded using religion

I can't see how to say that anything is wrong \
your point of view
my point of view

This post has been edited by jstcrsn: Jul 12 2010, 01:34 AM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Uncreator
post Jul 12 2010, 01:33 AM
Post #357


Fire Up The Blades, Moderator
Group Icon

Group: GMC Senior
Posts: 8.933
Joined: 6-March 07
From: St. Petersburg, Florida
Member No.: 1.304



QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Jul 11 2010, 05:26 PM) *
How are all things not beautiful because they are fulfilling their design by the star stuff



Because the stars do no imbue us with destiny or a role to fill. Show me evidence for this. There is no "design".

You forget one thing, We come from the material of Stars and Space. But those same materials that we were created from are not the same in the processes that creates us now. Stars do not have a stockpile of human DNA in them, let alone a possible genetic code to commit humanitarian atrocities. Stars do no longer "birth" us - We share similar elements, elements that as individual particles or atoms do not interact in any way with one another. And a womans womb most certainly does not harbor any kind of star, So therefore stars, or there material, no longer harbor the ability (which they never had) to impose a destiny, a will, a role, or plan.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Alexiaden93
post Jul 12 2010, 01:35 AM
Post #358


Learning Rock Star
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1.518
Joined: 16-April 09
From: Sandnes, Norway
Member No.: 7.072



QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Jul 12 2010, 01:26 AM) *
I'll see it through
I said if there is a God, what would it look like
now if there isn't ,what are the consequences
Please answer my ?
How are all things not beautiful because they are fulfilling their design by the star stuff
hitler
mother T
the lion
the child molester
the flower
the seasons
the guitarist
the drummer - although I play with a few that weren't very beautiful

in fact would it not be wrong for society to stop them all from fulfilling what the star stuff made them to be in the cosmos

God's existence doesn't affect appearances on Earth. It affects your interpretation of what you see on Earth. If there isn't a God... I don't know. Logic doesn't deal alot with speculation, so I'm afraid my belief can't answer that question.


--------------------
My YouTube Channel
Lost in all the 2000+ GMC lessons? Check my Lesson Plan


Guitars
Fender American Standard Stratocaster - Olympic White body, Maple fretboard, White Pearl pickguard, 21 frets, SSS
Yamaha Pacifica

Amplifier
Marshall 15CDR, 45 watts


Recording equipment/software
Line 6 POD Studio GX
Logitech QuickCam Pro 9000
Reaper v3.04
Sony Vegas Pro 8.0
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Azzaboi
post Jul 12 2010, 01:37 AM
Post #359


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1.485
Joined: 23-March 09
From: New Zealand
Member No.: 6.965



It was a bad example 'The Uncreator'... and 'Alexiaden' it was more a question than putting words in your mouth. I wasn't blaming you either for blaming others, I just said it doesn't get people anywhere, even on earth. It's like trying to blame your parents for your birth because you don't like where it ended up due to your own free actions.


--------------------


Play Games Arcade
Take a break, Play Games! Play the best free online flash games at Aaron's Game Zone like Bloons Tower Defense 4!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
jstcrsn
post Jul 12 2010, 01:39 AM
Post #360


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.641
Joined: 29-March 08
From: kansas, USA
Member No.: 4.733



QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Jul 12 2010, 01:31 AM) *
there are - and most of them persuaded using religion

I can't see how to say that anything is wrong \
your point of view
my point of view


now if you want to see the if and why's it is easy to see politicians
getting rid of the competition- through laws
the government teaching the dumb masses that the government is good- as hitler did with the american , I mean the German schools
indoctrinating the youth
historical revisionism
once you can get the people to believe absurdities -you can get them to commit atrocities

This post has been edited by jstcrsn: Jul 12 2010, 01:42 AM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

20 Pages V  « < 16 17 18 19 20 >
Closed TopicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 


RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 19th January 2017 - 01:26 AM