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> Drums, Loops or Drawing?
Muris Varajic
post Apr 1 2008, 12:01 AM
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Hi crew biggrin.gif

Just curious,what do you prefer for drums,loops or MIDI drawing?
For lessons,your own material,songs...doesn't matter.

Real live recording is the best of but lets not talk about it right now.

There are many great sounding audio drum loops but in 90% cases
groove isn't the one you're looking for...or mix inside of kit doesn't fit you,right?

On the other hand,VSTs/samplers + MIDI offer lot of options using drawing(editing groove)
but usually it doesn't sound that great like those loops recorded in pro studios,imho.

Would like to hear your opinions on this topic,thanks!! smile.gif



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Gerardo Siere
post Apr 1 2008, 12:37 AM
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I mix them.
Other thing is load a vsti you like and record certain parts your self with the piano roll or virtual piano (it's a kind of fast midi drawing).
It would be a good idea to mke an instructor post of soft and methods so everyone makes suggestions on this topic.


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Jerry Arcidiacon...
post Apr 1 2008, 07:53 AM
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QUOTE (Muris @ Apr 1 2008, 12:01 AM) *
On the other hand,VSTs/samplers + MIDI offer lot of options using drawing(editing groove)
but usually it doesn't sound that great like those loops recorded in pro studios,imho.


Very true. Anyway I'm drawing all the stuffs right now, except the guitar biggrin.gif
I also starded to use the Addictive drums demo and I will purchase this software as soon as possible.
Great grooves here.

Do you know some free source for loops on the Net?

This post has been edited by Jerry Arcidiacono: Apr 1 2008, 07:55 AM


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Trond Vold
post Apr 1 2008, 09:17 AM
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I always draw every note myself with Cubase and Toontrack Superior.. never liked loops


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Joe Kataldo
post Apr 1 2008, 11:00 AM
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I don't like loops, I spend to much time to make them fit with my work, I prefer to record it with masterkey, but Muris spotted an important topic too, loops have more human feel and sound, specially when recorded in top studio by pro player Li like a Live performance biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by Joe Kataldo: Apr 1 2008, 11:01 AM


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Marcus Lavendell
post Apr 1 2008, 12:23 PM
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I prefer MIDI drawing. I haven't worked much with loops though so I can't really say much about it, but it seem to be less flexible?


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Apr 1 2008, 12:37 PM
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I don't use loops for the lessons. I draw the drums and the bass in midi using Nuendo software. Then I conect it using "Rewire" option to Reason's Redrum. I use Redrum as a drum sampler. I have lots of .wav and .aif drum samples from different libraries.
However I would like to get even better drum sounds. Does anyone know any good library or software?


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Dejan Farkas
post Apr 1 2008, 01:35 PM
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I use loops from EZdrummer, there's nice feature there "humanize" that gives better dynamics to loops, and once the loops are sorted out in Cubase, I edit the midi and change what necessary smile.gif


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Marcus Siepen
post Apr 1 2008, 01:42 PM
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I am pretty lousy in drum arrangements, still I don't like to use loops, as some others mentioned before, they never really fit to what I want, so I use Sample tank and "play" my drums with a masterkeyboard (lol, and after this I have to edit everything to make my playing sound a bit like a drum at least tongue.gif )


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Bogdan Radovic
post Apr 1 2008, 01:48 PM
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I use midi loops and sometimes edit them to fit in better .. wink.gif


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Apr 1 2008, 02:03 PM
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Interesting topic Muris. As far as drums goes, I use loops for the lessons, not much need for drawing there as most drum VSTs have premade loops that are quite good enough for pilot song versions, pilot projects, lesson backings etc. Of course the MIDI is editable if needed, and MIDI libraries are huge - so I say - why don't use it?

Next option that must be combined with the loops in order to get some decency out of the drum sound would be recording via MIDI keyboard as opposed to the mouse, since it is more human like approach. Unfortunately I'm not a drummer so not into grooves that much so it is always better for me to choose the next best thing from a MIDI library and edit it (a lot) to my preferences. I've found this approach much better for my needs. No need here for now to do quality drum programming at home since it is easier to find a drummer to play it in the studio when the time comes then to spend countless hours on programming that I just don't have.

This post has been edited by Milenkovic Ivan: Apr 1 2008, 02:04 PM


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Juan M. Valero
post Apr 1 2008, 02:17 PM
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For my songs i usually write the MIDI and put it in the EZ drummer with the Drumkits from Hell... as Dejan said, the HUMANIZER is a great tool. BTW I use to change a bit more the dynamics wink.gif

Loops are good if you write the song based on this loops, but if you have the song wrotten is really difficult to find a loop that works well with it


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Muris Varajic
post Apr 1 2008, 05:16 PM
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Thanks for input guys,lots of great thinking! smile.gif

Yeah,humanizing feature in EZ is really great,gives feel to it.

But somehow,dunno,audio loops(specially good recorded one) sound really powerful
AND cut through mix a lot better and easier.

Have you tried combining audio loops with MIDI stuff?


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Apr 1 2008, 05:26 PM
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QUOTE (Muris @ Apr 1 2008, 01:16 PM) *
Thanks for input guys,lots of great thinking! smile.gif

Yeah,humanizing feature in EZ is really great,gives feel to it.

But somehow,dunno,audio loops(specially good recorded one) sound really powerful
AND cut through mix a lot better and easier.

Have you tried combining audio loops with MIDI stuff?


I tried it. I like to compose music with Industrial metal influences (I like NIN very much). When I do that I combine an audio files drum set with different loops. I create loops in Reason, with Redrum and DrRex. Then I do an automatization to make loop changes in each mpart of the song. My common setup for this is two Redrum modules (one for acoustic drums and the other for elektro/industrial kits) and one DrRex module.

I combined real drums with loops from Redrum in the song "Tecno" of my band Cirse for example.


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Apr 1 2008, 09:23 PM
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Don't know what audio loops you mean Muris? Recorded live in a studio? Those are surely better than using regular MIDI loops. Afterall, drum VST's only play the same loops over and over and these loops are recorded in best studios but not the highest of quality. Maybe some more expencive drum VST's, don't know.. unsure.gif


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Hisham Al-Sanea
post Apr 1 2008, 09:33 PM
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drawing all tracks midi + VST using sonar 6 using and rack synth-cakewalk TTS 1 and i will upgrade it to sonar 7 .
thats much better than loops ,you can do your music as you like .


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Andrew Cockburn
post Apr 1 2008, 09:46 PM
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I've done both, and it depends on the song. I find using prebuilt midi grooves is a great way of getting things going, and I use EZD along with a bunch of addon grooves, and particularly some of the breaks and fills are good stuff that I would find hard to do myself. Sometimes I use that as a basis and tweak and add, and rarely I will build an entire song myself, often using a keyboard for input to get a humanized element to it.


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Muris Varajic
post Apr 1 2008, 10:41 PM
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QUOTE (Milenkovic Ivan @ Apr 1 2008, 10:23 PM) *
Don't know what audio loops you mean Muris? Recorded live in a studio? Those are surely better than using regular MIDI loops. Afterall, drum VST's only play the same loops over and over and these loops are recorded in best studios but not the highest of quality. Maybe some more expencive drum VST's, don't know.. unsure.gif


I mean regular audio loops,aif or wave files,recorded in pro studios,
gated,compressed etc.
Those loops sound awesome indeed. smile.gif

There are many VSTs sounding great as well,EZ,Addictive etc,
it's just that it miss "something" in sound.
And I believe that's because you can edit hits AND sounds of kits.
Not sure if you can keep both sound quality and editing options on high level.

With audio loops you can't do much when in comes to editing tho.
You can split it into slices and change tempo a bit but that'd be all. sad.gif


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Apr 3 2008, 10:27 AM
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You have a great point there Muris, loops are indeed better if recorded and played properly. VSTs just don't cut it for the moment in terms of sound quality. But my strong feel is that VST technology is developing fast and soon we will have some very decent and flexible drumming samples even in VSTs.


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Nemanja Filipovi...
post Apr 4 2008, 09:24 AM
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well for my song,and when I think about it,I always draw dry.gif ..but I cant do it any more...so I am waiting for my controller..and I will just play the basic stuff(even of tempo)and the latter play with it...
great points there abut the quality sound of VST drums.....I recently begin to work on my album...so I "mixdown" snars,kicks,toms..etc...one by one..and then latter I will use them as a waw sample trough Battery.....so I will have them all on a separate ch...and control will be a lot easier....


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