Drums, Loops or Drawing? |
GMC Forum > Discussion Boards > VINTAGE GMC > Community Activities and Tutorials > Instructors Corner|
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Apr 1 2008, 12:01 AM
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Hi crew
 Just curious,what do you prefer for drums,loops or MIDI drawing? For lessons,your own material,songs...doesn't matter. Real live recording is the best of but lets not talk about it right now. There are many great sounding audio drum loops but in 90% cases groove isn't the one you're looking for...or mix inside of kit doesn't fit you,right? On the other hand,VSTs/samplers + MIDI offer lot of options using drawing(editing groove) but usually it doesn't sound that great like those loops recorded in pro studios,imho. Would like to hear your opinions on this topic,thanks!!  -------------------- Youtube
MySpace Website Album "Let It Out" on iTunes and CD Baby Check out my video lessons and instructor board! The Pianist tune is progress,check it out! "ok.. it is great.. :P have you myspace? Can i to personalize this for you guy?" |
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Apr 1 2008, 07:53 AM
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QUOTE (Muris @ Apr 1 2008, 12:01 AM)  On the other hand,VSTs/samplers + MIDI offer lot of options using drawing(editing groove) but usually it doesn't sound that great like those loops recorded in pro studios,imho. Very true. Anyway I'm drawing all the stuffs right now, except the guitar I also starded to use the Addictive drums demo and I will purchase this software as soon as possible. Great grooves here. Do you know some free source for loops on the Net? This post has been edited by Jerry Arcidiacono: Apr 1 2008, 07:55 AM -------------------- ::: Main Gear ::: Guitars: Washburn N4 Vintage | Washburn N2 | Washburn WI67Pro | Washburn WG-587 | Washburn EA20B Amps: Laney GH50L (head) | Laney GS410 & GS212IE (cabinets) | Rocktron PROGAP Ultra (rack preamp) | Rocktron Velocity 150 (power amp) | Marshall VS230 (combo) FXs: Rocktron Intellifex + custom pedalboard (check my video demo) Other: Shredneck | Intellitouch PT10 tuner Picks: Esseti Picks Software & Recording Gear: Cubase 4 | Overloud TH1 | Mackie Onyx 400F | EZdrummer | Korg Pandora PX4D ------------------------------------------------------- myspace.com/jerryarcidiacono Check out my video lessons and instructor board! |
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Apr 1 2008, 09:17 AM
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I always draw every note myself with Cubase and Toontrack Superior.. never liked loops
-------------------- Guitars: Schecter Stiletto Classic, Jackson SLSMG, Ibanez RG-380 Japan, Gibson Les Paul Studio
Amp: Marshall JMP-1 -> Rocktron Velocity 100 -> Marshall JCM-900 Lead 4x12 FX and stomps: T.C Electronics G-Sharp, Korg SDD-1200, Emma Transmorgrifier, BYOC Tribooster, GGG Green Ringer, Dinosaur Overdrive, Voodoo Lab SuperFuzz, Sovtek Bassballs, Line6 Tap Tremolo, EHX Screaming Bird. ___________________________________________________ My Lessons! My Instructor Board! My Myspace! |
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Apr 1 2008, 12:23 PM
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I prefer MIDI drawing. I haven't worked much with loops though so I can't really say much about it, but it seem to be less flexible?
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Apr 1 2008, 12:37 PM
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I don't use loops for the lessons. I draw the drums and the bass in midi using Nuendo software. Then I conect it using "Rewire" option to Reason's Redrum. I use Redrum as a drum sampler. I have lots of .wav and .aif drum samples from different libraries.
However I would like to get even better drum sounds. Does anyone know any good library or software? -------------------- My lessons
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Apr 1 2008, 01:42 PM
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I am pretty lousy in drum arrangements, still I don't like to use loops, as some others mentioned before, they never really fit to what I want, so I use Sample tank and "play" my drums with a masterkeyboard (lol, and after this I have to edit everything to make my playing sound a bit like a drum at least
 )
-------------------- Guitars: various Gibson Les Pauls / Gibson J 45
Amps: Mesa Boogie Tripple Rectifier / Triaxis / 2:90 Poweramp / Rectocabs Effects: Rocktron Intellifex / Rocktron Xpression Homepage: www.marcussiepen.com www.blind-guardian.com Check out my video lessons! |
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Apr 1 2008, 01:48 PM
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I use midi loops and sometimes edit them to fit in better ..
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Apr 1 2008, 02:03 PM
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Interesting topic Muris. As far as drums goes, I use loops for the lessons, not much need for drawing there as most drum VSTs have premade loops that are quite good enough for pilot song versions, pilot projects, lesson backings etc. Of course the MIDI is editable if needed, and MIDI libraries are huge - so I say - why don't use it?
Next option that must be combined with the loops in order to get some decency out of the drum sound would be recording via MIDI keyboard as opposed to the mouse, since it is more human like approach. Unfortunately I'm not a drummer so not into grooves that much so it is always better for me to choose the next best thing from a MIDI library and edit it (a lot) to my preferences. I've found this approach much better for my needs. No need here for now to do quality drum programming at home since it is easier to find a drummer to play it in the studio when the time comes then to spend countless hours on programming that I just don't have. This post has been edited by Milenkovic Ivan: Apr 1 2008, 02:04 PM -------------------- - Ivan's Video Chat Lesson Notes HERE
- Check out my GMC Profile and Lessons - (Please subscribe to my) YouTube Official Channel - Let's be connected through ! Facebook! :) |
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Apr 1 2008, 05:16 PM
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Thanks for input guys,lots of great thinking!
Yeah,humanizing feature in EZ is really great,gives feel to it. But somehow,dunno,audio loops(specially good recorded one) sound really powerful AND cut through mix a lot better and easier. Have you tried combining audio loops with MIDI stuff? -------------------- Youtube
MySpace Website Album "Let It Out" on iTunes and CD Baby Check out my video lessons and instructor board! The Pianist tune is progress,check it out! "ok.. it is great.. :P have you myspace? Can i to personalize this for you guy?" |
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Apr 1 2008, 05:26 PM
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QUOTE (Muris @ Apr 1 2008, 01:16 PM) Thanks for input guys,lots of great thinking! Yeah,humanizing feature in EZ is really great,gives feel to it. But somehow,dunno,audio loops(specially good recorded one) sound really powerful AND cut through mix a lot better and easier. Have you tried combining audio loops with MIDI stuff? I tried it. I like to compose music with Industrial metal influences (I like NIN very much). When I do that I combine an audio files drum set with different loops. I create loops in Reason, with Redrum and DrRex. Then I do an automatization to make loop changes in each mpart of the song. My common setup for this is two Redrum modules (one for acoustic drums and the other for elektro/industrial kits) and one DrRex module. I combined real drums with loops from Redrum in the song "Tecno" of my band Cirse for example. -------------------- My lessons
Do you need a Guitar Plan? Join Gab's Army Check my band:Cirse Check my soundcloud:Soundcloud Please subscribe to my:Youtube Channel |
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Apr 1 2008, 09:23 PM
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Don't know what audio loops you mean Muris? Recorded live in a studio? Those are surely better than using regular MIDI loops. Afterall, drum VST's only play the same loops over and over and these loops are recorded in best studios but not the highest of quality. Maybe some more expencive drum VST's, don't know..
-------------------- - Ivan's Video Chat Lesson Notes HERE
- Check out my GMC Profile and Lessons - (Please subscribe to my) YouTube Official Channel - Let's be connected through ! Facebook! :) |
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Apr 1 2008, 09:46 PM
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I've done both, and it depends on the song. I find using prebuilt midi grooves is a great way of getting things going, and I use EZD along with a bunch of addon grooves, and particularly some of the breaks and fills are good stuff that I would find hard to do myself. Sometimes I use that as a basis and tweak and add, and rarely I will build an entire song myself, often using a keyboard for input to get a humanized element to it.
-------------------- Check out my Instructor profile
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Apr 1 2008, 10:41 PM
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QUOTE (Milenkovic Ivan @ Apr 1 2008, 10:23 PM) Don't know what audio loops you mean Muris? Recorded live in a studio? Those are surely better than using regular MIDI loops. Afterall, drum VST's only play the same loops over and over and these loops are recorded in best studios but not the highest of quality. Maybe some more expencive drum VST's, don't know.. I mean regular audio loops,aif or wave files,recorded in pro studios, gated,compressed etc. Those loops sound awesome indeed. There are many VSTs sounding great as well,EZ,Addictive etc, it's just that it miss "something" in sound. And I believe that's because you can edit hits AND sounds of kits. Not sure if you can keep both sound quality and editing options on high level. With audio loops you can't do much when in comes to editing tho. You can split it into slices and change tempo a bit but that'd be all. 
-------------------- Youtube
MySpace Website Album "Let It Out" on iTunes and CD Baby Check out my video lessons and instructor board! The Pianist tune is progress,check it out! "ok.. it is great.. :P have you myspace? Can i to personalize this for you guy?" |
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Apr 3 2008, 10:27 AM
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You have a great point there Muris, loops are indeed better if recorded and played properly. VSTs just don't cut it for the moment in terms of sound quality. But my strong feel is that VST technology is developing fast and soon we will have some very decent and flexible drumming samples even in VSTs.
-------------------- - Ivan's Video Chat Lesson Notes HERE
- Check out my GMC Profile and Lessons - (Please subscribe to my) YouTube Official Channel - Let's be connected through ! Facebook! :) |
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..but I cant do it any more...so I am waiting for my controller..and I will just play the basic stuff(even of tempo)and the latter play with it...
 
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