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> The 100 Greatest Guitarists Of All Time, The most idiotic list I've ever seen
JVM
post Apr 27 2008, 09:25 PM
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QUOTE (shellshock1911 @ Apr 27 2008, 03:53 PM) *
What is emotion? What is feeling? There is no definition. Yes, everyone can, and does play with feeling, if I feel emotionally connected to my music, who can tell me that I am not? Feeling is 100% in the listener, so there is no way to measure it. There is no such thing as shredders with no feeling. Once again, define feeling. And if shredders were not passionate about guitar, why would they spend thousands of hours perfecting their technique when guitarists with "emotion" and "feeling" have spent little to none?

Shred creates a different type of feeling in me than blues, jazz or whatever. Blues and jazz is more of laid back to sad, soulful feeling, while shred creates a high-energy feeling. No song in the world makes me more happy than a Dragonforce song, happiness is an emotion. That is the thing, emotion in music is far more complex and diverse than people who claim there is "no feeling" in a select few players make it out to be.


Disclaimer: shellshock, a lot of this isn't really directed specifically at you, but I'm just quoting you to start and then I'll probably ramble off on some other stuff tongue.gif

I see both camps. I think a lot of pro shred people make a good point about how people who play with "emotion" are not really any more special than people who shred, but then they (some) go on to make a point that is completely incorrect IMO, and their point is that due to the first point, shredders are better. That's not true. I guarantee you that a lot of old school blues players put as much if not more practice into their art than shredders do. They practice different things though. They might practice writing a song or improvising by jamming with their friends for hours a day, where a shredder might practice their sweep picking for the same amount of time. Every time you play it's practice.

I'm not saying that non-shredders are better than shredders or the other way around, I'm saying there's no difference. When a player is good at something, they're good. The amount of hours put into it doesn't make it better. You can be a technically amazing player who is incapable of writing a good song and you can be a technically yawn worthy player who writes a simple three chord song in 5 minutes that is really good. The amount you practice your guitar doesn't correlate to how good you are at it, it correlates to how big your chest of tools to choose from is (vocabulary) and how up to date your tools are (proficiency/efficiency), if thats not the worst analogy in the world.

When we think of a guitar player who has "emotion" we mean they are really good at playing certain notes that are very pleasing to our ear which trigger emotional responses. That takes just as much practice as learning to shred, it's a choice. There's a reason that I've never heard and probably never will hear dragonforce do a good blues song. The reason is twofold, first because they don't want to tongue.gif And secondly because even though they could technically do it by choosing the right notes and such, that's not all there is to it. They don't have the experience and practice to write a classic blues song. They can emulate it, but that's it. It's not their style.

Also I'd like to point out something you said shellshock. "Shred creates a different type of feeling in me than blues, jazz or whatever. Blues and jazz is more of laid back to sad, soulful feeling, while shred creates a high-energy feeling."

Maybe thats for you but I find it hard to believe that every blues song creates a laid back and or sad soulful feeling, or that shred creates high energy feeling. I can name a number of dirty, nasty high energy blues songs and a number of sad soulful laid back shred tunes. There is no set emotion attached to certain genres.

In the end though I agree that the list is totally useless and leaves out many great players, and that I love all kinds of music wink.gif



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fkalich
post Apr 27 2008, 09:39 PM
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QUOTE (shellshock1911 @ Apr 27 2008, 03:18 PM) *
If you want the list based on that criteria, well Joe Satch and Steve Vai pretty much made the genre of Melodic Shred, and John Petrucci helped create Progressive Metal. And yawn? http://youtube.com/watch?v=t25AOSxZZkI

And even if the list was based on most creative as far as making genres go, punk is more than just the guitar, which is pretty much just simple barchord/powerchord rhythms, but this is the best GUITARIST list, not songwriter, whatever.


they are not judging it by gmc worshiped guitar god standards. those guys are so unknown to the general public. there is a reason for it. they are boring to most people. they even bore me, and I play guitar as much as anybody around here, and shred in my fashion. but most people just find them boring. it takes more than just being a virtuoso to be interesting. i will take an interesting 3 chord guy over a pretentious guitar god any time.

van halen being at 70 was because most people identify that band to closely with DLR. Same with Slash and Axel. But it was a list of guitarists the readers like. And probably pretty accurate by that criteria.
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shellshock1911
post Apr 27 2008, 09:46 PM
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QUOTE (fkalich @ Apr 27 2008, 09:39 PM) *
they are not judging it by gmc worshiped guitar god standards. those guys are so unknown to the general public. there is a reason for it. they are boring to most people. they even bore me, and I play guitar as much as anybody around here, and shred in my fashion. but most people just find them boring. it takes more than just being a virtuoso to be interesting. i will take an interesting 3 chord guy over a pretentious guitar god any time.

van halen being at 70 was because most people identify that band to closely with DLR. Same with Slash and Axel. But it was a list of guitarists the readers like. And probably pretty accurate by that criteria.


Dream Theater has sold 10 million albums, so someone must know about them. And most of these shredders are actually pretty well known in places like Japan, where Malmsteen, for example has a huge fan base. And I believe that 4 of his albums were in the top 100 for sales for like 10 years, so no, they aren't soooo unknown to the general public as it might appear, if the U.S. was the entire world, it might be that way.


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Gus
post Apr 27 2008, 11:43 PM
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QUOTE (shellshock1911 @ Apr 27 2008, 09:53 PM) *
Feeling is 100% in the listener, so there is no way to measure it. There is no such thing as shredders with no feeling.


Well, you are in fact right. The words "no", "never" and "ever" are always too strong. So, "no feeling" is over-exaggeration.

I just wanted to point out that playing as fast as possible is not the objective of everyone with a guitar. In fact I am right now spending more time on the bend+vibrato than on notes per minute. Actually, I find bend+vibrato a tricky technique to master... All over the fretboard, in different guitars, with fixed or floating bridge... In each of them is a little different. And bending removes the limits of the well tempered instrument... So many possibilities...

I see no problem in going fast, in fact I think it is really good to go all the way to it.
I just love songs like Fade to Black, One, November Rain and Estranged where it starts very slowly and builds up all the way to a climax.

By the way, I do like Dragon force...


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Col Roberts
post Apr 28 2008, 09:08 AM
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What inspired this list? Alvin Lee not in the top 100 .... what's going on? blink.gif
Here's a taste of Alvin Lee if you haven't heard of him:

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Mark.
post Apr 28 2008, 09:29 AM
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Jeez I hate all this crap about rating a guitarist on his emotional stuff;
Do I suddenly become a good guitarist when I play some bends on the right time and pretend that I got to cry?
Should you be an emo to become a good guitarist or something ?
I think that you should jugde every sort of music for yourself and not for others.
And that you should jugde it by listening to it, not by the stage preformance of the musician.
If 3 chords please you then that's fine for you, or if 100000 notes per second is the thing for you, fine!
Just don't try to convince the other what is better and Dont make a list of who is the best!


All this crap about what is better is totally pointless; it's all personal opinion and there is no right or wrong.
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Nighthawk1
post Apr 28 2008, 10:38 AM
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The reason why I came up with that stupid list was that I was reading a wiki article about john frusicante and it was said in there that he was rated number 13 or so of the 100 greatest guitarist by the rolling stone magazine...so I wondered but that list is...and if wiki refers to that list...it must be something serious....which we all know now is utter crap !
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Juan M. Valero
post Apr 28 2008, 03:20 PM
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12 Kurt Cobain of Nirvana

16 Johnny Ramone of the Ramones


Oh, I thought we were talking about guitarrists laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
(sorry, I hate both !! tongue.gif)


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Pablo Vazquez
post Apr 29 2008, 08:44 PM
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QUOTE (Juan M. Valero @ Apr 28 2008, 11:20 AM) *
12 Kurt Cobain of Nirvana

16 Johnny Ramone of the Ramones


Oh, I thought we were talking about guitarrists laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
(sorry, I hate both !! tongue.gif)


laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif


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Marcus Siepen
post Apr 29 2008, 08:45 PM
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rofl... Kurt Cobain on 12 and David Gilmour on sixtysomething? yeah right...


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Pi38
post Apr 29 2008, 08:57 PM
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Am I the only one who noticed that Paul Gilbert ISN'T EVEN LISTED!!? He's one of the best IMO, and I think it's an atrocity that he isn't even mentioned.
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g-forcelover
post Apr 29 2008, 09:13 PM
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Did anyone notice that Muris isn't on there? laugh.gif


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Canis
post May 1 2008, 01:54 PM
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QUOTE (g-forcelover @ Apr 29 2008, 10:13 PM) *
Did anyone notice that Muris isn't on there? laugh.gif

That's the #1 evidence that list is fake!


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Fsgdjv
post May 1 2008, 01:59 PM
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QUOTE (Mark. @ Apr 28 2008, 10:29 AM) *
Do I suddenly become a good guitarist when I play some bends on the right time

Yeah, you do.


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OrganisedConfusi...
post May 1 2008, 02:01 PM
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I think Kurt Cobain deserves to be in there but not at number 12. He inspired thousands of people to pick up the guitar. Surely that is the sign of a decent guitarist.


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Jeff
post May 1 2008, 02:11 PM
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So all of the first 69 people here are better than Eddie Van Halen.

RS must have some good drugs. wacko.gif
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bsamn
post May 1 2008, 02:37 PM
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hehe.......stupid list......cool posts tongue.gif


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mattacuk
post May 1 2008, 03:17 PM
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No Paul Gilbert, no Yngwie? No bucket? blink.gif

Im sure the writers are not guitarist. No matter we know better wink.gif


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post May 1 2008, 05:02 PM
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QUOTE (Col Roberts @ Apr 28 2008, 10:08 AM) *
What inspired this list? Alvin Lee not in the top 100 .... what's going on? blink.gif
Here's a taste of Alvin Lee if you haven't heard of him:

Alvin Lee

yeah, that was the first guy I saw was missing smile.gif

QUOTE (Marcus Siepen @ Apr 29 2008, 09:45 PM) *
rofl... Kurt Cobain on 12 and David Gilmour on sixtysomething? yeah right...

Haha. Yes, that was a BIG error.

QUOTE (fkalich @ Apr 27 2008, 10:39 PM) *
they are not judging it by gmc worshiped guitar god standards. those guys are so unknown to the general public. there is a reason for it. they are boring to most people. they even bore me, and I play guitar as much as anybody around here, and shred in my fashion. but most people just find them boring. it takes more than just being a virtuoso to be interesting. i will take an interesting 3 chord guy over a pretentious guitar god any time.

van halen being at 70 was because most people identify that band to closely with DLR. Same with Slash and Axel. But it was a list of guitarists the readers like. And probably pretty accurate by that criteria.

I know this is not recommended anymore but:

+1

I have nothing to add to that.


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LasseToftDK
post May 5 2008, 07:56 PM
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QUOTE (Nighthawk @ Apr 27 2008, 02:56 PM) *
Yeah, for sure he was...(R.I.P)...who's Kim Thayll...let's have a look... biggrin.gif


He was the lead guitarist of Soundgarden. Quite an interesting playing style. But rather weird sometimes tongue.gif
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