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> I Need Help Achieving My New Guitar Goal, Any advice?
David Wallimann
post Apr 27 2008, 03:31 PM
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Hi everyone!
I've spent most of my guitar playing life working on metal stuff.
Lately I really got into fusion players such as Guthrie Govan or Jimmy Herring...
These fusion players have this common guitar thing that I would love to achieve.
I attached a small mp3 of extracts of some of these players. The samples illustrate the sound ad feel I want to get.

The common factors I have found are following:

16th notes sequences
outside of the scale notes

Now the question is, is there anything else?
Maybe a common scale hey use? Maybe something else that I'm missing?

Any help would be appreciated.

I started transcribing some of these licks, but besides learning a bunch of licks, are there any other directions and ways to achieve this?

Hope some of you jazz-fusion players can help!

Thanks!

David

Attached File  fusion_examples.mp3 ( 618.27K ) Number of downloads: 212




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Nick Kellie
post Apr 27 2008, 03:46 PM
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Hi David - I will post some of my thoughts later - Got back from a gig at 5am and am feeling very restless today!
Here is a lick I composed over a ii V i chord progression and just shows a more fusion approach to a typically standard jazz chord progression - more angular and less linear.

Nick

This post has been edited by Nick Kellie: Apr 27 2008, 03:55 PM
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Attached File  Ex6.mp3 ( 239.71K ) Number of downloads: 151
 
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David Wallimann
post Apr 27 2008, 09:12 PM
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Thanks a lot Nick!
Get some rest and I'm looking forward to your thoughts...
I love that lick you wrote.
That's exactly the type of thing I'd like to use in my playing. :-)


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OrganisedConfusi...
post Apr 27 2008, 11:01 PM
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In my opinion it's about thinking outside the box. Many think Jazz isn't music but it is incredibly intricate and well thought out and the players really know there stuff. I'd advise analysing people like John McLaughlin by listening to Mahavishnu Orchestra's Inner Mounting Flame album and also Al Di Meola's material. These players are the best in fusion in my opinion.

But what do I know. Nick is the man on this stuff. He kicks arse.


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Nick Kellie
post Apr 28 2008, 12:13 AM
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well according to allan holdsworth, the term "JAZZ" to him means improvisational music - and I agree because thats how it started..... But unfortunately people tend to have a blinkered view of jazz - including many jazz musicians!
Holdsworth says his music is too jazzy for rockers and to rocky for jazzers - many would class his music as fusion - meaning it falls in between the cracks stylistically and is therefore a FUSION of styles.... I wouldn't restrict it to having to be of a jazz extract personally though - but that is how many identify it.

Well my view on how to learn fusion would be to really look at all the options when sololing over chords...but as well as that "Jazz Rock Fusion" has a particular feel dynamically and in terms of nuance. So you really need to get those nuances of players like holdsworth and gambale...
You talk about outside playing - there is a huge misconception on the the term OUTSIDE playing...
Playing outside means to play outside the tonality of the present chord.. but, and this is the big but... it doesnt mean playing nonsense. In fact to play outside well you need to be playing within a form. So for example you could over an A minor 7 chord for example, imply Cm7 by playing in C dorian. Mike Stern does this a lot.
So the whole thing with OUTSIDE playing is that you are in fact playing INSIDE an imaginary tonal centre.

i will write more but Im still in my comatose state smile.gif
nick

This post has been edited by Nick Kellie: Apr 28 2008, 12:16 AM
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Tjchep
post Apr 28 2008, 12:27 AM
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Hmm..

Could'nt you just do some simple experiments like Making a progression in D minor, but playing A phrygian over it? That switch you're focus off minor and obviously put it on phrygian... I'm sure that would give you the Outside sound.

But I'm a nub. So who knows smile.gif.


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OrganisedConfusi...
post Apr 28 2008, 12:28 AM
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Also I'd imagine finding a drummer and a bassist to jam with on different progressions and ideas would help greatly if you can find some fusion fans.


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David Wallimann
post Apr 28 2008, 12:48 AM
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Thanks guys.
Looking forward to more insights Nick...


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Daniel Robinson
post Apr 28 2008, 03:57 PM
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In my opinion the best way to acheive sounding like this is to not try to compose a clearly concise phrase but to instead just let the phrase happen. Fusion is about living in the moment imo. Rock guitarists have a tendency to create complex recurring themes with well laid out phrases and chord choices whereas fusion only has a rough outline and your job is to color it how you want to from moment to moment.


Its almost like a "Zen" approach to guitar, where you dont plan it you just let it unfold and see where it takes you. I know what i am saying is rather cryptic. The other thing is that its less about the notes your playing, but more about the rhythm aspect. Fusion players tend to use very complex rhythm schemes in the phrases they are playing.


I dont know if this helps or not because i know i can't do it except on very rare occasions to be able to let loose your feelings in a very chaotic and unformed way and yet making sense at the same time.


Its obvious to me Dave that you know the theory so trying to tell you what "Magic" scale there is, is kinda pointless. You know as well as i do there is no "Magic" scale. When listening to the players your wanting to emulate you know what is happening from a theory standpoint. You just have to let yourself open up to the moment and just let it happen.

Daniel


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David Wallimann
post Apr 29 2008, 02:38 PM
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Thanks for your insight.
I think part of my problem is just phrasing in general.
Nick, a lesson on that style of bop like licks would be awesome!


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Marcus Siepen
post Apr 29 2008, 08:33 PM
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A nice lesson about this topic would really be great, Jazz is also not really my universe, but I would like to explore it a bit too.


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