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> Copy Kills Music
Marc_Maiden
post Feb 26 2009, 05:34 AM
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looks like im a little late to the party here,


but i dont think there is a better feeling in the world, than when you find a band youve never heard of, and turns out to be awesome...

when i started liking rock/metal i listened a lot to the eagles..doing searches got me to iron maiden (which made me pick up my first guitar) and from iron maiden i met my first progressive/power metal bands...the first ones i couldnt stop listening to:

Blind Guardian
Sonata Arctica
Kamelot


i think though blind guardians "And then there was silence...." got me into really big epic music (long songs telling stories) this kind of interest lead me to symphony x which was at the top of my list of favorite bands with the songs such as "Divine Wings of Tragedy" and "The Odyssey"

it really is true how people (kids especially) dont really follow "music" anymore as in they dont wait for albums or really search for new music...they kinda go with the flow and hear what ever is on the radio or video games.

im fortunate though that we have the internet and forums like these where big communities can share ideas and thoughts about music...if i hadnt gone to the forums i did (Ibanez Forum, Shredguitars Forum, and GMC) i would probably be a snobby power chord playing guitar player who only like specific bands and thinks they are the best


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wrk
post Feb 26 2009, 09:31 AM
Post #102


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I was reading a few times in this topic that kids don't value music anymore and i don't understand from where this impression comes from ... there is such a wide range of different music existing today and it's growing every day, who is doing and listening to it, if it's not the todays generation?

People and kids have to search even more these days to find the music they like and they do this by searching unsigned musicians on youtube or myspace channels. Maybe they don't wait anymore that an album comes out, but i think it's not completely correct to think, if people don't value the packaging of an album anymore or the act of going in a shop to buy an album/CD, that they automatically don't value music anymore as well.

Funny is, i don't want to know what my parents were thing about the music i listened to when i was a kid and now those bands and music is part of the definition for "good" music. Values are changing, but to say that my values from these days are better then how it is today would make me feel very old suddenly laugh.gif



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Alex87
post Feb 26 2009, 10:03 AM
Post #103


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I really like this topic! Think you have great opinions on this subject Marcus smile.gif
Personally I buy alot of music, I never copy or download for two reasons:

1: I like sound QUALITY! I spend money on the right stereo and loudspeakers so I can turn the volume up and listen to great sounding music (regardless of the artist, lol). Besides no download quality song can ever be compared to a CD quality.
Also I check youtube sometimes for new bands, and if I like it I buy their album, even if it's for one song, which sends me to my second reason.

2: The size of a CD collection smile.gif Nothing is better to look at what you been buying throughout the years. These days I think I reached about 400 CD's and counting. Some like it compact on a computer in files, but I enjoy the sight every day wink.gif Yes I'm a geek tongue.gif

Also I'm kinda old school in a way, and I buy loads of LP's these days aswell. I like the analogue sound alot, I think it's the best you can get. Tho it's more sensitive ofcourse. smile.gif


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jer
post Mar 17 2009, 08:46 PM
Post #104


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Merged from another topic
/Micke
From here


I cant find the original thread. I think it was called "Copy Kills Music"

Yeah, I searched for it. The search engine here in the forums is atrocious. Most forum ones are. You arent along GMC! smile.gif


Anyway.... I was thinking. And before I say anything let me say this.

I'm aware that some people steal music. And I'm aware that people will use whatever excuse they can....

Anyway. Say you bought a new album. Via download from amazon, itunes. cd from the store, however.... You are free to put that on your ipod. Your PC. Make copies for personal use in the car, van, whatever... I'm assuming we are all ok with this.

Now, suppose, like me, you have converted EVERY SINGLE CD YOU OWN to a computer format and have your music on a hard drive for streaming all over your house via your network, ipod use, whatever.....

What if my cds got stolen? Do you think I should have to erase all of that music? I paid for the rights to it. I didnt sell the discs. They were stolen.

What if my house burned down? Now the originals were destroyed. But I grabbed the hard drive on the way out. Do I have to erase it now? Why should I have to buy it all again?

Thoughts?


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DeepRoots
post Mar 17 2009, 08:51 PM
Post #105


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Here you go:

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...c=15593&hl=

Finding threads can be quite easy, go Search > more search options, the click the link for advanced search help- helps alot when trying to find that specific thread you lost smile.gif
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Emir Hot
post Mar 17 2009, 08:56 PM
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When I buy something I always make a backup of it. Nobody can say it's illegal, I paid for it. The moment I make a copy for a friend, that's illegal. At least that's my opinion which I hope makes sense. I wouldn't even care about the law if I am the only one who listens to it. In case of Ipod you have it in digital format so no need to worry that your CD is scratched. If you lose your Ipod you still have it in your Itunes library which is again yours and you paid for it. Next time you can synchronise it with your new device if you want.


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sigma7
post Mar 17 2009, 09:02 PM
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no, imagine this...

is it stealing when we let a friend borrow a cd, videogame, or movie?

Is it stealing when we just post up one song up on a website?

Is it stealing when you buy a cd and put it on your computer (like you)?

No, it is the hacker who takes the music from you who is in trouble





o yah, did ne1 here about this weird advertisement thingy where WB and Sony are trying to make P2P for them fair?

Like they are devising a way to make money themselves through people who file share on the internet, cool isnt it?

It is ridiculous how many people borrow off the internet, isnt it?


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Frederik
post Mar 17 2009, 09:09 PM
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not stealing. cause eventhough u dont have the cd. u still have bougt the right. it might be hard 2 prove in court though
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sigma7
post Mar 17 2009, 09:11 PM
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i hate court mad.gif i never win (speeding tickets)


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Frederik
post Mar 17 2009, 09:12 PM
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QUOTE (sigma7 @ Mar 17 2009, 09:11 PM) *
i hate court mad.gif i never win (speeding tickets)


i actually got 1 cancelled by writing a very clever complain wink.gif
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sigma7
post Mar 17 2009, 09:14 PM
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nice, justice PREVAILS! haha


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Frederik
post Mar 17 2009, 09:17 PM
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wink.gif
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jer
post Mar 17 2009, 09:32 PM
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Thats the thing.

If you had the music but cant prove you ever bought the cd.

Anyone could say, oh yeah those were stolen out of my car! (one reason all the cds in my car are cdrs with mp3s. I've had too many cd wallets ganked from my car)

Nobody could prove or disprove it.





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Ajmurrell
post Mar 18 2009, 02:08 AM
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One sure way they can press charges is if they have proof of you downloading and then sharing an illegal file via P2P.

All torrents have a tracker, telling the ISP exactly what it is you've been downloading and sharing. This is illegal whether you have bought the content previously or not because P2P starts sharing the second you have something downloaded.

ISP's have already started sending people mail in the UK warning them that the companys are aware of their sharing habits and will disconnect if it continues. Don't think any court trials have occured yet though.

Already people have devised a way of explaining this evidence, either by saying someone hacked in to their WiFi or someone else downloaded it while at the house.


QUOTE (jer @ Mar 17 2009, 08:32 PM) *
Thats the thing.

If you had the music but cant prove you ever bought the cd.

Anyone could say, oh yeah those were stolen out of my car! (one reason all the cds in my car are cdrs with mp3s. I've had too many cd wallets ganked from my car)

Nobody could prove or disprove it.



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enforcer
post Mar 18 2009, 10:13 AM
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Merged from another topic
/Micke
To here


You paid for it and you own ever possible right to copy it. You might not own the originals anymore due to some unfortunate incident, as long as you didn't sell your originals your copies are legal. Evenmore, you have rights to use cracks or patches to copy a video game or a dvd that has a copy protection but that you own. You have all the rights to download a emulator ROM of an arcade game if you own the actual arcade machine. You even have right to download the pirated version of an album that you already own but only if that is the exact version of what you own (not a live cd version if you own the album version for example) There isn't a slightest possibility that someone should come and ask you where your originals are, as long as you are not a part of a long piracy chain.

I really don't understand the behavior of some publishing companies. People started to show some great care for the campaign against piracy and immediately there they are trying to exploit that sensitivity...

Cheers pal!


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Marcus Siepen
post Mar 19 2009, 12:27 PM
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I agree with you, if I buy a cd I have the right to make a backup for myself, I have the right to copy the songs to my computer and to my iPod, I do this myself, no problem. There is no law telling me that I am only allowed to listen to those songs via the cd, I can use all the options, so far, so good... in theory at least:

@ Enforcer: In Germany the law is very clear about this: If something (Game, cd, movie, whatever) is copyprotected, you are NOT allowed to bypass this protection in whatever way, no matter if you bought the cd and therefor own it. Cracking or bypassing any kind of copy protection is illegal here and therefor a crime. So no, in this country you are not allowed to copy a protected cd to your ipod or computer, or to make a backup of your newest movie, or to use a no.cd patch for your latest games, all this is officially forbidden here. No idea how it is in other countries, but here this is not allowed.

@ sigma: Your attitude is rather typical, many people say "But I only uploaded one song to my homepage..." Yeah, you uploaded only one song, 9 others uploaded only one song as well and immediately the whole album is online. Oops, what now? Where is the limit? Or to formulate it drastically, is it ok to go to a record store and steal only one single? After all it was only a single, not a whole album.

@ wrk: Sure kids still listen to music, but do they still really value it? I see many people trading hard disks with gigabytes of music every single week, they have no chance to even check out all those bands, not to mention really listen to those albums, how can you really value something that turns into this kind of fast food?


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sted
post Mar 19 2009, 12:50 PM
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file sharing is here to stay, it is so ingrained into modern day life that any amount of court actions and campaigns simply isnt going to stop it, morally it is wrong to do it, but do music companies act in a moral way? I dont really buy mainstream music and prefer blues and stuff yet I can buy a chart CD for £8 but if i wanted an Eric Bibb CD it would cost me £18! There is no way that any music compny can justify that sort of price difference, all they are doing is exploiting the percentages. At the end of the day we live in a capitalist society that revolves around the profits demanded by all those involved, right up from the artist, agents, record companies, wholesalers and distirbutors all taking their cut, the internet and file sharing cuts all these people out and they lose out and start complaining instead of accepting that it will never change and adapting their business to suit, the car industry is the same, their refusal to change has led them into a blind alley from which there is no escape, the music industry should take note!
If I like a band and could purchase the music directly from them online I would gladly pay it as it would be way cheaper and I know the artist would get the proceeds, they are the only people I want to see make a living from the music.
I have heard of initiatives that dont charge for music downloads if you listen to a 30 sec advert, again the revenue is secured and the rights have not been infringed, they have had it all their own way for so long that I for one welcome all of it as it will benefit the cmmon man in the end, it is nothing short of a revolution for music fans and if the companies wont change their outlook and adapt their businesses to suit, im sorry but they only have themselves to blame!
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Marcus Siepen
post Mar 19 2009, 01:31 PM
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I agree with you that the music industry will for sure have to face the internet and somehow learn to work WITH it, not against it, something that they failed (or refused) to do so far. But about this direct marketing, selling your music through your webpage directly to your fans, yes, this can work, but only if you are an established act that has a certain fanbase already. If you are an absolute newcomer you can't do it like this, simply because you don't have enough fans yet. If nobody knows you, who will come to your page and buy your music there, and like this pay your studio costs? of course you can also use Youtube and stuff like this to make yourself a name in the internet, but in my opinion this sounds much easier than it actually is.


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29a
post Apr 2 2009, 09:01 PM
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QUOTE (Marcus Siepen @ Mar 19 2009, 02:31 PM) *
I agree with you that the music industry will for sure have to face the internet and somehow learn to work WITH it, not against it, something that they failed (or refused) to do so far. But about this direct marketing, selling your music through your webpage directly to your fans, yes, this can work, but only if you are an established act that has a certain fanbase already. If you are an absolute newcomer you can't do it like this, simply because you don't have enough fans yet. If nobody knows you, who will come to your page and buy your music there, and like this pay your studio costs? of course you can also use Youtube and stuff like this to make yourself a name in the internet, but in my opinion this sounds much easier than it actually is.
I think you'll have to agree that recording music has gotten cheaper over time. You it's now possible to record music in a reasonably fashion with a pretty small budget. So I don't think that's the issue.

About promotion, I partially agree with you here. I think were not yet at the point where artists can easily operate without the support of labels to promote them. At least for non mainstream music. Mainstream seems to adopt slower, may be because it's bigger.
I don't know how you get to know new artists but for me it's mostly through friends (or concerts). Some friend tells me "hey you might like this band, check it out". And I get an mp3, youtube link or similar. And honestly I like this. And I think this should be legal to do. In fact in Switzerland it is to some extent. I don't want some suit guys at a label to decide what I should hear based on some return on investment calculations they do.

From what I know the record labels job is:
- Filtering out the "good" music (where good is defined on the estimated profits)
- Support bands in producing more "good" music by paying for studios etc. (I'm note sure to what extent this is true)
- Promoting Bands
- Distributing/Selling Music
- (Annoying, offending and suing their customer base)
....

I think the Internet will be able to do all this things and probably most of them in a more efficient way. And the labels will either adopt to that and find their place in this new world (may be as platforms) or die. And I don't think this can be stopped. Even when doing extremely stupid things like censoring the Internet.

Now the problem is see is that we are in a transitional state right now. And I think there is one major thing missing. The support of the artists. Why is the support of the artists missing? I guess it's because it's not yet clear how to compensate them (and because they seem to be afraid of that Internet thing). Honestly? I'm not sure how that will work in the end. But I'm certain that one or many ways will be found. Also without the big overhead of the labels (how much do you earn per cd you sell?) musicians might actually earn more not less.

Copying or the Internet will definitely not kill music. But it could kill the music industry. And generally I wouldn't miss them.

- Jonas


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Emir Hot
post Apr 3 2009, 01:07 AM
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QUOTE (29a @ Apr 2 2009, 09:01 PM) *
Copying or the Internet will definitely not kill music. But it could kill the music industry. And generally I wouldn't miss them.


Well I am the first who thinks never to record an album again because of this. My 2 years of hard work is not made for torrents and other P2P things. Those songs didn't come from the clouds just like that. Someone had to sit and make all that. Not to mention money spent in the whole project. (I am even scared to talk about the exact number). If you think that copying is not killing music then I can't agree with that. I am sure many people are not happy about it. Firstly it killed the way of listening music. No more feelings about it. Marcus did a great comparison (this became like a fast food). How do you think we (artists/songwriters) can be motivated to continue if we're spending money for nothing. This should be like any other job. When you invest in something then it is logical that you wait for something to come back to you from sales, royalties, publishing etc... If everyone is downloading things for free, then this job becomes pointless. I really see no reason why I would do another album.


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