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OrganisedConfusi...
post May 22 2008, 01:13 PM
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QUOTE (OrganisedConfusion @ May 22 2008, 09:15 AM) *
I had a question actually Marcus that I don't know if you have answered. What do you think of people downloading live concerts by your band or any band that aren't available to buy and that you are unlikely to release?

Did you see my question here Marcus? It has always interested me.


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Marcus Siepen
post May 23 2008, 10:21 AM
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Sorry, I didn't oversee your question, I just forgot to answer wink.gif Well, bootlegs are something different for me, if somebody finds a bootleg somewhere on the internet and he wants to download it, fine for me. Personally I prefer the two official BG Live-albums over all the bootlegs that there are from my band, but this is just my personal opinion of course, and I also used to collect bootlegs for a while. Well, actually I still do, I collect Blind Guardian bootlegs, but not because I would listen to them, I just want to have them wink.gif


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OrganisedConfusi...
post May 23 2008, 10:31 AM
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I buy the live albums but some bands best shows are never released so I have to have them smile.gif I like what Pearl Jam do. They record every show and have official bootlegs so you can download any show you go to within 24 hours of it ending or purchase a real copy. They do about 1000 copies of each show. It's great. Any chance of BG doing this?


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Marcus Siepen
post May 23 2008, 10:41 AM
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I doubt, this would mean we would have to carry our recording gear with us all the time, we had enough of that on the "night at the opera" tour, when we recorded 40 shows all around the world.


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post May 23 2008, 10:45 AM
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Fair enough. I guess it is a lot of extra equipment to take around.


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blindwillie
post May 23 2008, 12:53 PM
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QUOTE (Marcus Siepen @ May 23 2008, 11:21 AM) *
Sorry, I didn't oversee your question, I just forgot to answer wink.gif Well, bootlegs are something different for me, if somebody finds a bootleg somewhere on the internet and he wants to download it, fine for me. Personally I prefer the two official BG Live-albums over all the bootlegs that there are from my band, but this is just my personal opinion of course, and I also used to collect bootlegs for a while. Well, actually I still do, I collect Blind Guardian bootlegs, but not because I would listen to them, I just want to have them wink.gif

Hahaha. That was a tiny bit weird biggrin.gif


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Orlandun
post May 23 2008, 09:06 PM
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I pretty much agree with everything Marcus said on this one. I have always bought my albums. I hate having buying just mp3 copies because i always liked having the actually cd and the booklets. Sure i make mp3s to throw on my player but i can't listen to that stuff in my car. When i first starting listening to Blind Guardian i started buying cd's and getting into music. When ANATO came out i rushed to the local bestbuy to pick it up. I recently did the same thing with the most recent Ayreon album, I did it with the New iced Earth album, I did it with A Twist in the Myth. To me there is a level of excitement you get from buying a cd, ripping off the plastic, putting it into the car stereo and blasting it on your way home. Even things that are new releases but simply new albums i have never heard before, I get excited waiting for the disc to. If no one else is going to put money down for this awesome music then somebody has to and that somebody might as well be me. i ahve a friend that pirates every piece of music he owns. He has 2 or 3 cd's that he bought himself and thats it. I remember one day he was complaining that one of his favorite bands, a ska band from Japan, never comes to the Us. The way i saw it he was only hurting those chances by downloading all their music rather then buying it. After that comment he simply laughed at me and said why pay money when he had the internet.

I would be lying if i said i had never burned a cd for someone or taken a cd from someone else. However just like you we traded these cd's to try out music and spread around our favorite bands in hopes that their popularity would grow a little bit. I had a specific blind guardian mix i passed around to my other metal head friends of a few choice BG songs. 90% of the people i gave those to ended up loving your music and eventually ended up buying at least two cd's in a couple cases nearly all of your releases. I did similar things with bands like Iced Earth and Ayreon. Although im no longer in high school you used to be able to trace the small group of blind guardian and iced earth listeners straight back to me and a lot of these kids ended up buying many of their cd's. This results in more cd sales as a hole as well as more potential concert attendees. The other 10% just weren't too into the music for the most part and thats fine they probably wouldn't have bought the music anyways.. If i never handed out those mixes those people would have never bought those cd's, except maybe one or two of them who i hung out with alot so they frequently heard my music. I'm not completely against passing around a couple songs to promote bands and spread around musical taste but going online and ripping an entire bands cd collection only to listen to a few and forget about them to me is a bit of an insult to the music as well as the artists who depend on your sales to make a living.


I don't like the route of a digital distribution only market and i hope solid copies of music always continue to exist. Although the creation of the i tunes store has had many benefits to the industry and allow you to buy just the songs you want. Because lets face it, how many times have you bought a cd because you heard one or two cool songs only to realize most of it was crap. I know this is the reason some people download alot of their songs because they only want one or two off the album anyways. people shouldn't be afraid to share music here and there. Maybe with a downlaod to check out a band your unfamiliar with. But when it comes down to it, support the bands and buy the albums you like and go out and buy them.

This post has been edited by Orlandun: May 23 2008, 09:14 PM
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Marcus Siepen
post May 23 2008, 10:28 PM
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I absolutely agree with everything you said!


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Enucleation
post May 23 2008, 11:22 PM
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I agree with Marcus on the download thing. I used to download music but not anymore.

I think it's one thing if you are saying "hey, listen to this band *send mp3 of like one song*" but another if you burn a CD for someone. I mean, yeah I've burned plenty of albums for people, but I don't intend to anymore, I remember I got friggin angry when my mom wanted me to burn Nightwish for her and I ended up having to do it for my brother and his girlfriend, and yeah it's good theya re getting some good music but...BLAH.

Also, I admit not too long ago I downloaded a few songs, but it was really a different thing, I went on youtube and downloaded a video of the song Make Them Suffer by Cannibal Corpse and reverted it to audio but, like Marcus said its a bad quality recording and I still want to go buy the album. I've done this to a few other songs and I do in some sense regret it though.

So no more downloading AT ALL for me. (well the whole "hey check these guys out" scenario may be different.)

This post has been edited by Enucleation: May 23 2008, 11:25 PM


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post May 26 2008, 08:53 PM
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QUOTE (Marcus Siepen @ May 21 2008, 05:06 PM) *
@ Anarox: Your thought is not really correct. I earn money when somebody buys my cd. So yes, I lose money if you download it for free from the net. You are not stealing something physically, but you are getting something that you have to pay for, without doing so, you don't pay me for the work that I have done before. You have to see it like this, first I do my job, and I get paid for this only later, but if everybody downloads music, I don't get paid at all.


Ouch, the guilt hit hard when I read that.

Sorry for nitpicking like that, but it's my programmer nature...
I just can't help myself sad.gif
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Gerald
post May 29 2008, 09:27 PM
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What if I listen to the radio and I make a tape of songs from the radio. I didn't download it illegally, and there is no disclaimer I have never heard on the radio which says, do not copy or reproduce. So is it illegal for me to distribute a tape/cd of songs downloaded from a radio station?

Personally I don't download music. I do this http://pandora.com - I think it's the compromise between getting music for free and the people who put the work in getting a kick back.
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Marcus Siepen
post Jun 1 2008, 05:30 PM
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Recording music that is played on the radio is not illegal. Radio stations pay royalties for every song they broadcast, like this the artist is paid for his work. I have no idea how this works with all those internet radios though. "regular" radio stations for example have to make lists of every song they play, but I doubt that every internet radio is doing this.


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Marek Rojewski
post Jun 2 2008, 11:02 AM
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Hmm I often download music, to try some bands, and if they are good, I buy them. Also if I am going to a music festival with many bands that I don't know good enough, I sometimes download their "best of" to know the songs I will hear on the show.

Anyway I buy the cd later if I find it okay, if not, I am not listening to it, and it will disappear from my disc sooner or later. Another things is, that here in Poland cd's are really expensive, because we earn much less than "westerners" and cd's are often more expensive than in those richer countries. For example, buying all Blind Guardian albums took me 3 months, because I couldn't afford all of them at once. If I would earn more, I would probably buy much more cd's, but because I don't earn more, I try the music first, and after that buy it, or put it in my computer bin, and forget about it.

This post has been edited by Marek Rojewski: Jun 2 2008, 11:05 AM


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Jun 2 2008, 11:45 AM
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QUOTE (Marcus Siepen @ Jun 1 2008, 04:30 PM) *
Recording music that is played on the radio is not illegal. Radio stations pay royalties for every song they broadcast, like this the artist is paid for his work. I have no idea how this works with all those internet radios though. "regular" radio stations for example have to make lists of every song they play, but I doubt that every internet radio is doing this.


Taping AM/FM radio broadcasts is allowed in the UK, USA, Australasia and probably most of the so called 1st world provided it is done under 'fair use' for personal use only. Back in the 1980s the BPI (UK) and the RIAA (USA) tried to make home taping against the law but eventually settled for 'fair use' - including home video. 'Fair use' pretty much means you can tape for your own private, non-commercial use and came about - I think - from the Sony US vs Universal Studios court case back in the early/mid 1980s where Sony argued for, and won in US court, home video tapes as a 'fair use' form of 'time shifting' films and tv broadcast.

In the UK ALL radio stations, including all digital formats and internet radio, are required by law to have a broadcast license and a transmission license and the area is overseen by Ofcom, and albeit that digital licenses are different to analogue (DAB licenses for instances are issued to the holder of the multiplex). Failure to comply is an act of broadcast piracy. I think a similar situation prevails elsewhere. WRT Internet radio the USA RIAA has already managed to get the US Congress to pass a bill that would require receivers to incorporate DRM technology. In the case of Digital Subscription radio the RIAA has also already reached an outline agreement with the two major US Digital Subscritption radio broadcasters. I would assume that in the UK the BPI will do similar.

Where the difference seems to lie is that the BPI and RIAA etc view digital recording and transmission as different to analogue because there is no deterioration in quality between 1st and successive generations of copies. That thus allows multiple 'perfect' copies to be produced from a single source.

Slightly differently AIM (Association of Independent Music) has argued for a return to the days when recordable tape (music and video) carried a tax to cover copyright. AIM however want ISPs to be taxed for hosting file sharing - sort of a broadcast license.

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Gitarrero
post Jun 24 2008, 02:17 PM
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Hi Everyone,
being a new member I'd like to give my opinion on that topic.
I used to download some music a few years ago to get to know some bands better. I might have heard a song or two on the radio that I really liked and so I turned on the computer and got more songs. This is how I discovered at least half of my fav bands. Later I went to the ecord store to get their newest albums, so I think I'm pretty much like Marcus. Actually, this is how I discovered BG! But I agree, most people don't have that attitude and simply download, never buy or delete anything.
I must say, the bands that I downloaded and liked got money from me, because I either bought their records later or went to their concerts, and I think if everybody did this, the industry wouldn't have to worry so much.
Actually, some bands (like Pennywise) give their new albums or some songs away for free (for a limited period of time).
What do you think about that, Marcus?
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Marcus Siepen
post Jun 24 2008, 06:51 PM
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Giving away some songs for free for that limited time might be a great tool of promotion for the band, it might get many people interested in the new album, but unfortunately not every band is allowed to do this, it depends on your record contract too, some record companies will for sure be strictly against something like this. But in general, as I said before, I think the net can be used as a great promo tool, it just has to be used in the right way.


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Iron King
post Jun 25 2008, 10:52 AM
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man, I just had an argument with a friend over this.
We were at Heavy MTL (a heavy metal festival) and we saw a band that neither of us knew too well. After the show we were both impressed and he told me: "Those guys are good, I gotta download some of their stuff tonight", to which I responded: "you mean BUY"... it went on from there. He used the argument that big bands make more money off concerts and merch, blah blah

I really don't understand how people think downloading is ok. Using my friend as an example, we both work at a video game company. If somebody just downloads our games (which I'm sure thousands have) our jobs become meaningless. Honestly, it doesn't really affect me in terms of salary (although it could if enough people do it), but it's a simple issue of respect. The people that download just completely ignore all the months of long hours and all our emotions and love that goes into what we make.

anyway, back to your original post. I think you are right on a lot of points. The music industry today seems to be all about mass consumption. We have so many artists that sound the same. It's obvious that these aren't seasoned musicians, they are simply people that fit the mold so that they can be exploited to fit a current trend in mainstream music.

I find that the consumerist aspect of modern music is really ruining the art. It goes beyond the fact that so many bands have short life spans, and put out albums with 1 good song. I find that the simple act of going to purchase a cd to be a pain now. Large record companies have driven many of the small spots out of business. I used to go down to a hardcore/metal store, chat with the employees, have them recommend me some music (they would know because they also loved the music) and maybe purchase a ticket to a local band's show. Now all I have near me is massive store. The staff there usually don't give a **** about the music, and obviously can't help you unless you are looking for something extremely popular. You're no longer treated like a fellow music enthusiast, you're just money to them. It seems like browsing and listening is strongly discouraged now. Go in, buy something within 5 minutes or leave... sheesh

anyway I got off topic, sorry about that

I do have some downloaded stuff, but it's only really poor quality songs that were recorded in the 80's and were never commercially released

oh and Marcus, don't worry I've never stolen from you tongue.gif
In fact I recommended Blind Guardian to a friend over the weekend... don't worry about her either. She's an old school hardcore/metal fan, she refuses to download anything... in fact she hates all digital media... same here
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Canis
post Jun 25 2008, 12:25 PM
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About internet as a promotion source: I think the answer is YouTube.
Lately, I think it has reduced the dowloading of music significantly, since it's easier just to click your way in there, search for a song and listen to it on the fly. I've done that with all new bands I've heard lately. Easy way to find out if I should buy an album or not, if the rest of the bands music is good.


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Gitarrero
post Jun 25 2008, 12:41 PM
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QUOTE (Canis @ Jun 25 2008, 01:25 PM) *
About internet as a promotion source: I think the answer is YouTube.
Lately, I think it has reduced the dowloading of music significantly, since it's easier just to click your way in there, search for a song and listen to it on the fly. I've done that with all new bands I've heard lately. Easy way to find out if I should buy an album or not, if the rest of the bands music is good.


That's right, since I've disovered youtube, I'm looking for new bands there.
But then again, you find lots of new albums there, all the songs are available because someone uploaded them with just one picture as a "video", and with the right software you could easily get them this way, which (i guess) might even be legal. So I think something should be done about this.

This post has been edited by Gitarrero: Jun 25 2008, 12:42 PM


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DeepRoots
post Jun 25 2008, 12:54 PM
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QUOTE (Gitarrero @ Jun 25 2008, 12:41 PM) *
That's right, since I've disovered youtube, I'm looking for new bands there.
But then again, you find lots of new albums there, all the songs are available because someone uploaded them with just one picture as a "video", and with the right software you could easily get them this way, which (i guess) might even be legal. So I think something should be done about this.

Not legal.

The person who uploaded those songs to youtube more than likely didn't have permission from the copyright holder.

Ofcourse, it is their responsibility to get it removed from youtube, however doesn't make it legal for you to copy.
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