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> Copy Kills Music
Marcus Siepen
post Jun 25 2008, 01:18 PM
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Youtube is also a nice way to check out bands, but yeah, I also seriously doubt that all the copiright holders gave their ok for all the stuff that is online on youtube. It is funny to see that the industry is going nuts about filesharing, but nobody even comments on youtube...


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Jun 25 2008, 03:26 PM
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YouTube has content deals with a lot of the big media companies and shares advertising revenue with them and also acts to take down any material that breaches copyright when notified. In doing that - responding by taking down material that infringes copyright - YouTube relies on the US Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998. However whether or not YouTube's interpretation of that Act would be good enough to withstand a legal challenge...

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Marcus Siepen
post Jul 9 2008, 09:53 AM
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I just read an article that said youtube is just being sued by the music industry for copyright violations...


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Antonio23
post Aug 21 2008, 12:47 PM
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i totally agree that music has become just consumable.
well i can´t lie,i´ve downloaded lots of songs,but i love them all.there isn´t a single song i haven´t heard.some of the songs i downloaded,i did it because i couldn´t find the cd in any store.but i have a big colection of cds too and i have a great pashion for music(i am waiting for a long time for metallica´s death magnetic and for the new rammstein album(wish im not sure when it will come out)


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Henry Dietzel
post Aug 21 2008, 01:51 PM
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QUOTE (Marcus Siepen @ Jul 9 2008, 04:53 AM) *
I just read an article that said youtube is just being sued by the music industry for copyright violations...

I'm surprised it took the industry this long to act. It will be interesting to see the outcome. I am still puzzled why sites like powertabs.net were closed after publishers sued but guitarpro tabs are still active. I figured I'd keep my 2 cents out of their forums before they end up taking GP offline too.

As far as your original post I couldn't agree with you more. I personally would rather have the originals and not copied or bootlegged albums. After reading your post it brought me back to my younger days waiting in line at the record store when use your illusion hit shelves. I remember the line was out the door and around the block

Ahhhhhhh.......the good ol days wink.gif

This post has been edited by Henry Dietzel: Aug 21 2008, 01:53 PM


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Marcus Siepen
post Aug 24 2008, 12:07 PM
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hehe, I have never really been into Guns 'n' Roses, but yeah, I was waiting in line for The number of the beast smile.gif


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Tiltil
post Oct 1 2008, 10:20 AM
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"Copy kills music" is definitely a false phrase in my eyes. Without an old schoolmate haven given me a copy of The Bard's Song live, you guys might never have profited from the shirts, cds and the concert tickets i bought to see you play smile.gif! I think a personal copy and a free distribution of information is essential for a wide range of musical variety. And imagine people like Paul Potts, if he had just been on British TV with his act, and not been viewed on youtube over a million times, he'd probably still be selling cell phones.

In my opinion the economical success of a band lies very much in the way they are linked to their fans. Take my favourite band for example: Böhse Onkelz. I have even more cds and tshirts of them than i have of BG (Sowwi sad.gif). As well as you guys, they are (or were) simply authentic.
Now compare that to any of the "hyped" bands around (people like Madonna.. or casted bands). They are not authentic, people do not identify with them, they have nice voices, even the songs can be good.. but what does that count? People don't feel the urge to support them as "their" band.

It is possible that many music labels will cease to exist on a long run. But I don't see any alternative, at least not one where my civil rights are tarnished, just because some lobby guys can't think of a different way to earn cash.

To sum it up: A band, which manages to create a connection between themselves and (potential) fans by hard work (lyrically, musically, gigingly <- biggrin.gif) will never have anything to worry about in my opinion. The others, well, I don't know about you, but I don't really care.

Regards.

Edit: Whoops, just saw this topic is a month old already. Forgive me for bumping ^^

This post has been edited by Tiltil: Oct 1 2008, 10:28 AM


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Marcus Siepen
post Oct 2 2008, 12:05 PM
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No need to be sorry, better late than never wink.gif


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Tono Fyr
post Jan 13 2009, 05:25 AM
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A friend of mine likes to argue that I "Waste money" when I buy CDs, because I'm "paying for data" and because bands don't tend to see much out of record sales (that's the perception, anyway, when, in fact, selling records almost directly translates into tour dates, aka the main source of income for most bands), however, I disagree completely, for not on the previous reason, but also because of this simple fact:

I'm not simply paying for data. I'm paying for the hours, days, weeks, months, YEARS, of blood, sweat, tears, heart, and hard work put into each song, the creativity, the artistry, everything. The sum total of that alone makes it worth it, in my opinion. My 15 dollars is well worth all the time and effort put into an album.

I will say, however, that I feel that using downloads as a source of advertisement is a brilliant strategy. Many albums that I've downloaded have since become a part of my personal collection (or have been deleted from disinterest), and I will say that my first exposure to Blind Guardian was through Downloading, and that considering that I now own all of your studio albums, one of your singles, and the Live DVD, I'd say that you've made quite a fan of me. It's good to see that you see the potential for this as a way of attracting fans.

I also rushed to the store when ATITM came out.

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kahall
post Jan 13 2009, 06:34 AM
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I don't think I ever posted my thoughts on this. If I did here is another and hopefully I am not repeating myself as I often tend to do. ;-)

I work on PC's on the side for friends and co-workers. I would say that 50-60% of the problems they have are from illegal downloading using whatever the latest and greatest software out there. Usually it is still limewire. When I tell them they should really not be using it they just do not understand my reasons. Besides the fact that there is a small chance you will get busted it can really cause all kinds of problems if you do not know what you are doing.
Some will actually argue that since they could technically record any of the songs while a radio station is playing it ( I did that a lot when I was a kid on a reel to reel.) that it should be ok. I usually tell them that radio stations do not regularly play whole albums for that very reason.
I have an acquaintance who was recently hired for a city in some kind of legal department. They mentioned limewire and using it after only working there for a few months. Their co-workers hushed em up real quick telling them not to mention it in the office etc. This person called me a few days later on how to get rid of all of the evidence so I helped out. They really wanted to keep the job and it all worked out, but they seriously had no idea it was illegal.


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utak3r
post Jan 13 2009, 08:47 AM
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Let me tell about my point of view...

Yes, I do download mp3's. Why? Because it's the only way of finding out what new music I'd like to listen to. If I find something really cool - I go and buy it. I don't have a problem with buying music, but I don't like buying a cat in a bag, I just have to listen to it - and not for 10 minutes in a store, but for several days.

The other problem is record label's selling politics. The price for a LP is really from their heads, and telling that copying music renders musicians modest - that's not true. It is true in situations, where the music were made with an independent label - that's where if robbed, it has a straight impact on musicians. BUT - independent labels have normal prices (I don't know hot it looks in US or somewhere else, but here in Poland CDs from big labels are insanely expensive).

So... my way is - if I find a good music, worth of listening to it - I go and buy this LP legally. If I couldn't make it this way - I just wouldn't buy it, because I can't afford buying a CD which I don't know if I even like it. My downloads ain't making anybody more modest - because I wouldn't buy it either way, so.... but the chances are that I will make them more rich - if I find this music worth of buying...


That's just my point of view...




ahh, one more thing - singles in radio stations... they won't tell if you if a LP is good or not... you know the singles are the best pieces from an album, right?.... Besides, radio stations play usually a crap not even worth of listening to mad.gif
So I thank for example LastFM - I can reasearch for some interesting music via this service.


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enforcer
post Jan 13 2009, 01:31 PM
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Well IMO, there are two aspect of this illegal downloading stuff.

Firstly, there are ways to listen to music by avoiding the illegal aspect of this downloading stuff. For example few months ago, I noticed that Iced Earth released two new albums, one in 2007 (Framing Armageddon) and one other in 2008 (Crucible of Man), since I was generally disappointed with my original buy of Glorious Burden, I wasnt sure if I wanted to buy these, so I found a PROMO copy of these two albums, which was great to check out because these copies were roaming freely on the NET. So I listened to them, liked them and went to a local shop and buy them. At this point I disagree with people saying "I dont have money to buy music" stuff because a CD is not a goldbar, if in a week, you dont go out as much as you usually do, you dont eat at your favorite restaurant and eat at home, you can easily spare money to buy original cds.

I agree people on saying you dont have to be paying for data, but one thing is different here, MUSIC IS NOT SOME RANDOM DATA! This is actually precious work of some very creative man, they care for it, they love it as they would love their children and they share it for our lives to get richer. I am sure, lots of musicians would share it for free if the process of recording an album was free. But it is not, I know and say it as I musician who had to pay these costs from his pocket to release his own album. Yes our band worked really hard and made gigs for virtually free for about half a year to be able to cover the cost of our albums.

Make no mistake, I dont believe that bands and musicians would go out of bussiness and wont have a coin after all that illegal downloads, imo, a musician has to gain money by giving concerts, and as long as he performs his music, not by sitting in his CASTLE drinking old brew and eating caviar. But paying for an album has nothing to do with this paying for an album is actually respecting his hardwork and covering his expenses.

I agree that you have all the rights in the world to have free basic information but music, movies, comics etc are LUXURIES! And you have to pay for these things to provide the continium of this luxuries.

Cheers,

Can


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audiopaal
post Jan 13 2009, 02:28 PM
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QUOTE (enforcer @ Jan 13 2009, 01:31 PM) *
Well IMO, there are two aspect of this illegal downloading stuff.

Firstly, there are ways to listen to music by avoiding the illegal aspect of this downloading stuff. For example few months ago, I noticed that Iced Earth released two new albums, one in 2007 (Framing Armageddon) and one other in 2008 (Crucible of Man), since I was generally disappointed with my original buy of Glorious Burden, I wasnt sure if I wanted to buy these, so I found a PROMO copy of these two albums, which was great to check out because these copies were roaming freely on the NET. So I listened to them, liked them and went to a local shop and buy them. At this point I disagree with people saying "I dont have money to buy music" stuff because a CD is not a goldbar, if in a week, you dont go out as much as you usually do, you dont eat at your favorite restaurant and eat at home, you can easily spare money to buy original cds.

I agree people on saying you dont have to be paying for data, but one thing is different here, MUSIC IS NOT SOME RANDOM DATA! This is actually precious work of some very creative man, they care for it, they love it as they would love their children and they share it for our lives to get richer. I am sure, lots of musicians would share it for free if the process of recording an album was free. But it is not, I know and say it as I musician who had to pay these costs from his pocket to release his own album. Yes our band worked really hard and made gigs for virtually free for about half a year to be able to cover the cost of our albums.

Make no mistake, I dont believe that bands and musicians would go out of bussiness and wont have a coin after all that illegal downloads, imo, a musician has to gain money by giving concerts, and as long as he performs his music, not by sitting in his CASTLE drinking old brew and eating caviar. But paying for an album has nothing to do with this paying for an album is actually respecting his hardwork and covering his expenses.

I agree that you have all the rights in the world to have free basic information but music, movies, comics etc are LUXURIES! And you have to pay for these things to provide the continium of this luxuries.

Cheers,

Can

Well said mate smile.gif
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tommyboy
post Jan 13 2009, 02:57 PM
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Having dealt with this issue head on as a photographer I'll chip in my two cents. Since copyright pertains to mediums much more than just the music industry I'm going to use my experience as a professional photographer to make my point.

When I started in photography film was the only medium, digital wasn't even on the horizon. Cameras weren't as fool proof as they've become and taking a really great photo was the photographers understanding of the lighting conditions as well as having mastered his equipment and subject matter.

People used to ask me all the time how can you charge $50.00 for a 8x10 photo. They would say they could get one printed at there local corner lab for under $5.00. My answer was always the same. But not with the image I took on the paper. I tried to educate people into understanding that it's the creative art that your paying for. A piece of photo paper without the image was just a plain piece of paper.

This is the exact same problem with music. People are not looking at a song a as a wok of ART! It's just a computer file. Peoples thinking and mentality is the problem today. With the way the world is today art isn't in the forefront but in the background of most peoples lives. It's everywhere, TV, Radio, Internet, Billboards, etc. but people aren't looking at it as art. It's now called advertising, entertainment, etc.

Ok, now back to photography. I loved being a photographer, I was quite good and made very good money at it. However, when digital came out I was not impressed but I could see the writing on the wall. I was either going to have to change over or become a dinosaur. I decided to sell my studio and get out verses go down a path I was going to be unhappy with.

Alright, now here's what I think the root of the problems lies. With all the new digital technology artists aren't appreciated for what they are producing. Sure, a loyal fan of a band might rush to the record store to buy their latest album (creative works, art piece, etc.). But the casual fan will not. However, with todays media formats producing a perfect copy is as easy as a click. Copying has become ok because it's easy and you can do it right as home on your own computer. So it doesn't really feel like your doing anything wrong. Just because we can doesn't mean we should. I think in some respects all the new technology is doing more harm than good when it comes to the arts. But that's a whole other debate.

Art is kind of like wine. You have your everyday $5.00 bottle and your once in a lifetime $1000.00 bottle. Until people perceptions change art in society will continue on this slow decay and the true meaning of art will be lost in obscurity.

So I really do think Copy Kills Music because it minimizes the artists creation. Perception is 80% of reality. Gibson Les Pauls have a perception of being great guitars. However, not all Les Pauls are great. Until people start appreciating the artists and there contributions better this problem will only get worse.

People always want to point the finger at the record companies. Without them many of the great musicians we know today would still be playing in obscurity.

tommyboy


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Jose Mena
post Jan 22 2009, 10:55 PM
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Nice topic, it is old but I am glad someone revived it. I can't believe that someone actually approached you with mp3s on dvds for you to sign, that is outrageous.

What you have said here is so true, even the same people that used to buy music before, don't anymore, I know older guys that have ipods full of mp3s that were given to them by their kids or grandkids.

I still buy what I like, 1. to support the bands and 2. I like to have the lyrics, artwork read the story behind songs, whatever the band wants to tell me.

But as has been said here, people's minds have changed, they don't view music as they did before, you have said it the best way possible comparing it to fast food.

However I believe this file sharing has its positive outcomes, many bands I would have heard of if it wasn't for mp3 downloads and file sharing. So to me it seems like the Big Names such as Metallica might have lost some money, but allowed the little guys to be heard and even start a career??

I pose it as a question because I am not sure about this, just seems this way to me


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Marcus Siepen
post Jan 23 2009, 07:10 PM
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Better believe it Jose, it really happened... Somebody also came to the official BG forum and asked, where he could find the lyrics for the new album... well, they are printed in the booklet wink.gif
Filesharing in general is for sure not the end of the music industry, music has always been copied and shared, but yes, the attitude of people changed, they don't see the value in art anymore, as the enforcer said people see mp3's not as music or art, those are just small data files that are online and available for free, so why pay for a cd? As long as people don't realise that a song is not just a 5 mb file, but actually a lot of work and devotion there is something wrong and a problem.


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post Jan 29 2009, 08:48 PM
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Interesting topic indeed. I personally don't like CDs. I'm just too lazy to search for them, and I tend to break them. The first thing I do when I buy one is to copy it to my PC. And as I don't like to fiddle with stupid copy protection schemes I won't buy any copy protected cd. You ask why pay for a cd. I actually think that's a real question. For me, the only reason to buy a CD is to support the artist that created the music. But I don't need a CD. I don't need a booklet. I don't need a music store. And I don't need a label to decide what's good enough for me and what's not. And I certainly don't wanna feed lawyers that sue me for sharing music with my friends. The only thing I want is to support artists to create music. And legally listen to it, share it with friends and hell even post a cover of it on youtube.

QUOTE ("Marcus Siepen")
As long as people don't realise that a song is not just a 5 mb file, but actually a lot of work and devotion there is something wrong and a problem.
There's a lot of so called music out there where I don't see a lot of hard work and devotion behind it. But may be I'm wrong there. laugh.gif

I don't think its because of file sharing that people value music less. I don't even know if this is true. Because for me and most people I know this is not true. It's quite the opposite indeed.

- Jonas

This post has been edited by 29a: Jan 29 2009, 08:52 PM


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Paiva
post Jan 29 2009, 09:12 PM
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Hey cool thread I will just tell my example

Well I download some music not a lot tho because I just love the feeling about the CD (as you explained in the opening post) I love to get home after buying and just spend an afternoon listening to it and almost every time I do this with my father because he is a music lover too and has a huge collection of CD's and he encourages (sp?) to buy CD's if I really like the band. God damn I even bought all studio CD's by Led Zeppelin 30 years after they were released because I really like them and in hope that one day I can show them to my son or my younger cousin that is now 5 years old.

One of the things that you pointed out is the fact that we don't care much for the release well atleast in my case I'm not because most of the bands that I like are dead or not together or too old

And in my class mostly hip hop and rap listeners I encourage them to buy some CD's because it's different to listen to a single song download with limewire than listening to a whole CD

One thing that I also love to do is to buy DVD's I love like 2 weeks ago I bought G3 live in Tokyo I love to watch it and really concentrate on what they are playing and analyze their playings and stuff like that it's awesome!



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29a
post Jan 30 2009, 02:02 PM
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DVDs are cool. But most of them have bad audio quality instead of crystal clear surround sound. sad.gif

- Jonas

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Marcus Siepen
post Jan 31 2009, 12:35 PM
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I am not saying that nobody cares about music anymore, but unfortunately this seems to be a trend. I know people that share music among each others, but I am not talking about giving each other a cd once in a while, with a cool band that they discovered, I am talking about swapping whole hard discs, 100 gb every week! If you get 100 gigabyte of new music per week, do you really have the time to even check out all those bands??? I doubt...


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