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> Scales To Chords
Pi38
post May 27 2008, 08:08 PM
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I feel like such an idiot asking this question, as I should definitely already know this, but unfortunately, I don't. Here's my question: Does one change scales whenever the chord changes? Here's an example of what I'm talking about: Say I'm playing the A Minor Pentatonic scale and the backing is playing in A minor, but then changes to F Major. Does that mean that when it changes chords for A minor to F major, I change the scale that I'm playing from A minor Pentatonic to F major pentatonic? I'm sorry if I didn't explain it well, but if you understood that at all, please comment so I can understand.
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skennington
post May 27 2008, 09:02 PM
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Well my theory is limited so I certainly hope someone else steps in but I think as long as you are playing a scale of the root note of the chord you should be fine. In this case, Aminor is the root so therefor the backing is in the key of A. So Aminor pentatonic would work. The chord progression does not need to be followd as long as you are playing within the given Key.

Hope I'm wright here and not giving you bad info. tongue.gif Theory is something I'm definitely going to dwell more into. smile.gif



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Hisham Al-Sanea
post May 27 2008, 09:33 PM
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its look like a copy, if you are playing in A.m pentatonic and you want to transpose you playing to scale F.m pentatonic
all chords must transpose to F.m pentatonic . and the progression chords in this scale doesnt mean changing scale
cause each scale has own progression chords .


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Oxac
post May 27 2008, 09:56 PM
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as far as I know.

I believe that you need to go a little bit deeper than your regular pentatonic boxes here.

Let's say the backing is in A minor (or A minor seven).

If you use natural minor (A) then your notes will be: A B C D E F G A etc.

This scale is parallell to the C Ionian scale (CDEFGABC).

When you build chords you basically use thirds really. A third from C would be E (you start counting on the note you're at.)

If you want a basic cord you take the third of the root, then the third of the third ( the fifth).

That would be C E G, A C E, F A C. Etc. Do you want to add a seventh? Sure, that's a third from the fifth. You get the picture.


Back to the scales. We have C ionian (The "normal" major scale) CDEFGABC, then D Dorian (DEFGABCD), E phrygian (EFGABCDE), F lydian (FGABCDEF), G Mixolydian (GABCDEFG), A Aeolian (natural minor) ABCDEFGA, B Locrian BCDEFGAB and back to C Ionian.


Let's say that you have a backingtrack that goes, Am, G, Dm, C then you'd stay in A minor all the time. You'd also play C ionian, D dorian, E phrygian etc. at the same time.

Then, let's say the nuthead who wrote this song suddenly throws in a D Major, now we need to change the scale. Either he raised the key, so we'll have to go D ionian, E dorian etc. Or he made a substitution. Then you'd just edit the scale to ABCDEF#GA (raising the third in the D chord from minor to major) and what do we get? A Dorian.


So what you need to get about that scales is: They contain the same notes, but they sound different because of the distance between the root and every other note, like the thirds, fifths, sixths, sevenths, ninths, elevens etc.

A fine example is: C Ionian sounds major, dorian minor, phrygian, minor, lydian, major, mixolydian, major, aeolian, minor, locrian diminished (I bet marcus can have a single lesson on these).

When it comes to major and minor it's the third that differs. In major scales there are three whole notes between the root and the third. In minor scales there's 2,5 steps from the root to the third (counting starts on the root ends on the third). Diminished have a flat five etc.


To the conclusion, unless you make a substitution or change the key you don't have to change the scale you're playing, only your phrasing. Let's say you have a lick A C D E which you repeat all over the place, the chord changes from Am to C, then you'll still get somewhat of a minor feel to it, because of the A. But if you change the A to G, then you'll get a major feel to it and it will cooperate better with the C major chord.

I hope you can get your own conclusion out of my mezzy explanation.

/&/ Ox




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Ivan Milenkovic
post May 27 2008, 10:15 PM
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When you play over the Aminor you have several options. A minor (as a triad) can be a chord within:

1. C major key: In this best case scenario you will play over Cmajor scale. As you may know Cmajor scale has 7 notes and seven modes(different scales), depending from what note you start. A is the 6th note and it builds natural minor scale. So If you play Fmajor then you are in the key of Cmajor again. Remember F is the 4th note in the Cmajor scale so, you can play F lydian mode over it.

2. F major key: In F major scale A is the 3rd note. So it builds a Phrygian mode. You can play Phrygian with no problem and when the Fmajor comes you stay in the Fmajor scale of course.

So far we stayed within one key - but what if you want to mix them? You can mix them no problem because you are using a simple harmony that can use both notes from C major and F major. (just add a Bb to Cmajor scale and you can create some nice jazzy licks using a C Beebop scale).

This is the easiest option you can use, because these 2 keys are very similar and also called "close" or "related" keys in theory, because there are a small number of # or b signs that make them appart.

Also there are few more a little trickier options and those are:

G major key: In G major there is A note on the 2nd position and it builds a Dorian scale. So in a blues context I suggest you use this scale to create some occasional blues licks. BUT in Gmajor there isn't any F major type chord - in fact there isn't F note at all! You have only F#, and that can be tricky. So I suggest using Gmajor only while on Am.

B major: This key is very interesting because you can use it to create some diminished runs as note A is 7th here. It builds a diminished chord! That can be very interesting believe me, because diminished also have a minor 5th as the minor chord, but be careful not to overdo it with that b5 there... Also Fmajor here is on the 5th (dominant) position, so some nice bluesy licks can be very nice in that context.

This post has been edited by Ivan Milenkovic: May 27 2008, 10:18 PM


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Andrew Cockburn
post May 27 2008, 10:34 PM
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Some great answers here - I would just like to add that if you want to read a littl emore about the theoretical underpinnings of this, check out my Chords For Scales lesson - basically chords and scales are inseperable and you need to build them from each other as Ivan and Oxac said smile.gif


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Oxac
post May 27 2008, 10:58 PM
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Yaay, do I get a cookie now?

Also one thing, if you say G major, doesn't include an F, G mixolydian does and it's a major type of scale. But I get your point anyway. Thanks for the tip on adding B flat for beebop, you can create some cool jazzish licks that way. If you're more into classical music I'd propose that you try and add a raised fifth, like G# in C Ionian, creating a mix of Natural and Harmonic minor scale, but without the Eb I really like it. It also allows you to use both e major and e minor. I like that very much. Gives a nice twist to it, I use it all the time when I play piano.

This post has been edited by Oxac: May 27 2008, 11:07 PM


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Andrew Cockburn
post May 28 2008, 12:55 PM
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QUOTE (Oxac @ May 27 2008, 05:58 PM) *
Yaay, do I get a cookie now?


Definitely!


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Pi38
post May 28 2008, 02:21 PM
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Thanks everyone! smile.gif
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Jenkinson
post May 28 2008, 10:37 PM
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When I learned this type of thing, It greatly improved my improv capability.


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