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> Imprivising Id? I'm Bored
besip
post Jun 8 2008, 03:42 PM
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Hey all cool.gif
i'm wondering to know how you all Improvising and have fun rolleyes.gif actualy i'm prety good know 5 minor penta boxes{this is my main weapon for improvising usualy on slow backing}i'm beginer..Actualy my improvisation isn't so bad but it's kind of same...what i'm do is usualy lot of sliding+lot of positional shifting+trying add some stuff like vibrato and bending but almost all my Impro sound almost same and when i'm try to impro over natural Minor i'm not even close soud to the scale

how you all do that???? smile.gif

actualy maybe my problem is not using any licks a conect them i'm just playing without ID what to do next and just slidind playing note+ trying adding vibrato or bend

it's good id to lear couple licks for imrovising remember them then use them=mix them??????
probaly yes right biggrin.gif

it's there anything else what you can recomedet??

thanks all
Rene

This post has been edited by besip: Jun 8 2008, 03:44 PM


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Jun 8 2008, 03:57 PM
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Generally the rule with improvising is to learn the chords, scales and harmonies well. Without good knowledge about that improvisation is close to impossible.


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besip
post Jun 8 2008, 04:47 PM
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QUOTE (Ivan Milenkovic @ Jun 8 2008, 10:57 AM) *
Generally the rule with improvising is to learn the chords, scales and harmonies well. Without good knowledge about that improvisation is close to impossible.


Are you talking about chords what are fit to the scale and adding those chords to the scale???....sorry if your reply allredy tell me that but me and theory mellow.gif we are made friendship slowly rolleyes.gif
Thanks for previously answer cool.gif
Rene

This post has been edited by besip: Jun 8 2008, 04:47 PM


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Jun 8 2008, 06:16 PM
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No problems man, glad if I could help smile.gif


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besip
post Jun 8 2008, 06:47 PM
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QUOTE (Ivan Milenkovic @ Jun 8 2008, 01:16 PM) *
No problems man, glad if I could help smile.gif



so i'm right????? and have to look for lesson chords for scale??


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Muris Varajic
post Jun 8 2008, 11:53 PM
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Main thing for improvisation is to learn as many licks as possible.
Those licks can be found in GMC lessons of course. biggrin.gif
And yes,you have to know chord progression to
get your impro "smooth",
otherwise it'll sound just like random use of scale,
ascending,descending,up and down the neck.


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besip
post Jun 9 2008, 12:16 AM
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QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Jun 8 2008, 06:53 PM) *
Main thing for improvisation is to learn as many licks as possible.
Those licks can be found in GMC lessons of course. biggrin.gif
And yes,you have to know chord progression to
get your impro "smooth",
otherwise it'll sound just like random use of scale,
ascending,descending,up and down the neck.



thanks Muris i'm belive i'm can improve{hope biggrin.gif } to lear lot of licks and try to put them and mix them when i'm improvise..i'm not so comfortable yet with chord progresion yet..but hope in future i'm will and also hope those lick {without chord progresion for now} can kick me on other place when i'm improvising.....

actualy do we have somewhere something like licks archive??? becouse what i'm se on link of the day is just usualy 10-15 licks and they are steel repeating....????


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Muris Varajic
post Jun 9 2008, 12:23 AM
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QUOTE (besip @ Jun 9 2008, 01:16 AM) *
actualy do we have somewhere something like licks archive??? becouse what i'm se on link of the day is just usualy 10-15 licks and they are steel repeating....????


There was a lick of the day archive,yeah,but I'm not 100% sure where
it can be found atm,I think Kris posted sticky somewhere in forum.

By the way,whatever you're playing you're playing some licks.
Lessons,famous tune,solos etc.
So all you have to do it to incorporate all that
into your improvising,that's all. smile.gif


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DeepRoots
post Jun 9 2008, 12:34 AM
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https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/memberson...day-archive.htm wink.gif
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besip
post Jun 9 2008, 12:49 AM
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QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Jun 8 2008, 07:23 PM) *
There was a lick of the day archive,yeah,but I'm not 100% sure where
it can be found atm,I think Kris posted sticky somewhere in forum.

By the way,whatever you're playing you're playing some licks.
Lessons,famous tune,solos etc.
So all you have to do it to incorporate all that
into your improvising,that's all. smile.gif


ok cool.gif

before i'm start undersant those chord progresions rolleyes.gif i'm have little question....my main scale is now Penta minor for improv..if there isn't some easy way how to learn which chord i'm can use over the scale...i'm be like maybe remeber couple chords from here and try the add to the scale


http://www.all-guitar-chords.com/chord_pro...amp;mm=&v=0

so if i'm click for example on that program to Chord progresion ..then mark Key of A and aslo mark Natural minor triads...the program will show me chords what can be use on Am-penta --right????
and then when i'm click on progresion chord 3 i'm will gonna see basic open C-chord
so techicaly when i'm playing A-minor and now i'm wanna add the C-chord do i'm need strat play the chord {note together} or can i'm play them separely?????
and if i'm can play them separely can i'm play start the chord on for example o E note on D string or i'm need to start from root note???

QUOTE (DeepRoots @ Jun 8 2008, 07:34 PM) *



thanks cool.gif

This post has been edited by besip: Jun 9 2008, 01:18 AM


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Muris Varajic
post Jun 9 2008, 06:07 AM
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Besip,I highly suggest you to check Andrew's theory lesson,
specially those about tonality,key,root,chords on scale's degrees etc.

It'll give you clear answer on all your questions.
Per example,minor pentatonic is just a piece of natural minor scale.
Which means,all chords made of natural minor scale will
work over minor pentatonic scale with same root as natural minor scale.


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besip
post Jun 9 2008, 02:57 PM
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QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Jun 9 2008, 01:07 AM) *
.



ok cool.gif


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Gus
post Jun 9 2008, 05:23 PM
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Hi, since you are already familiar with pentatonics, try adding a characteristic mode note to the pentatonic to see what happens. I guess there are some lessons of Wallimann about the topic.

Example, A minor pentatonic:
A C D E G
Then if you add the 2nd minor you get a phrygian feel to your solo
A Bb C D E G

This one is really easy to identify since it is just one fret after the key.
If you like the different feel, then try adding one note for dorian:
A C D E F# G






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besip
post Jun 9 2008, 11:59 PM
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QUOTE (Gus @ Jun 9 2008, 12:23 PM) *
Hi, since you are already familiar with pentatonics, try adding a characteristic mode note to the pentatonic to see what happens. I guess there are some lessons of Wallimann about the topic.

Example, A minor pentatonic:
A C D E G
Then if you add the 2nd minor you get a phrygian feel to your solo
A Bb C D E G

This one is really easy to identify since it is just one fret after the key.
If you like the different feel, then try adding one note for dorian:
A C D E F# G




Thanks man..actualy i'm not so far with learning theory last part what i'm lear was INTRODUCTION TO SCALES
but you made me understand now what is the for me crazy names like Dorian -Phrygian modes wink.gif i'm was check quickly this lesson ->
https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...?showtopic=5012

and find out they are something like diferent types{modes} of minor scale with their own formula...?right rolleyes.gif
actualy i'm understand you when you teling me now to put to the A-minor the note Bb
so the Phrygian formula is 1 2 2 2 1 2 2 so if i'm got this right you recomedet me to put there the Bb note becouse i'm counting 1 semitone from A which is Bb or becouse you know this-> Phrygian mode is a minor scale with a flattened 2nd. In interval terms it is??? boath way can work...but i'm not not sure what is the major ruless

i'm have to work on that wink.gif but i'm smarter form today laugh.gif hope so

This post has been edited by besip: Jun 10 2008, 12:02 AM


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Pablo Vazquez
post Jun 10 2008, 01:08 AM
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QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Jun 8 2008, 07:53 PM) *
Main thing for improvisation is to learn as many licks as possible.
Those licks can be found in GMC lessons of course. biggrin.gif
And yes,you have to know chord progression to
get your impro "smooth",
otherwise it'll sound just like random use of scale,
ascending,descending,up and down the neck.

+1 at all!!


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Gus
post Jun 10 2008, 01:28 AM
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QUOTE (besip @ Jun 10 2008, 12:59 AM) *
Thanks man..actualy i'm not so far with learning theory last part what i'm lear was INTRODUCTION TO SCALES
but you made me understand now what is the for me crazy names like Dorian -Phrygian modes wink.gif i'm was check quickly this lesson ->
https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...?showtopic=5012

and find out they are something like diferent types{modes} of minor scale with their own formula...?right rolleyes.gif
actualy i'm understand you when you teling me now to put to the A-minor the note Bb
so the Phrygian formula is 1 2 2 2 1 2 2 so if i'm got this right you recomedet me to put there the Bb note becouse i'm counting 1 semitone from A which is Bb or becouse you know this-> Phrygian mode is a minor scale with a flattened 2nd. In interval terms it is??? boath way can work...but i'm not not sure what is the major ruless

i'm have to work on that wink.gif but i'm smarter form today laugh.gif hope so

It is quite the same story with majors.
C D E F G A B C - Ionian
C D E F# G A B C - Lidian
C D E F G A Bb C - Mixolidian
C D E G A C - Common to all major modes


hey, wait a minute??? The common notes between the three modes form the pentatonic major!!!
So, that means, that I can I improvise with pentatonic and then add two more notes to get all modes??? Yep...

Our ears are more used to hear the normal major scale (Ionian). So if you add the F or B you will probably hear that. But if you add the F# you wiil hear Lidian. That means that in order to get a Lydian sound it is more important to add the F#, but you can also add the B...
The same goes for mixolidian and Bb

This post has been edited by Gus: Jun 10 2008, 01:31 AM


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Andrew Cockburn
post Jun 10 2008, 01:46 AM
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Great post Gus !

Besip, Modes are a fascinatingway to learn new sounds and feels, and Pentatonic is a great way to base it all on one familiar scale as you are finding out. This can be very confusing though so be sure to think about it and ask if you are confused smile.gif


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besip
post Jun 10 2008, 02:06 AM
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QUOTE (Gus @ Jun 9 2008, 08:28 PM) *
It is quite the same story with majors.
C D E F G A B C - Ionian
C D E F# G A B C - Lidian
C D E F G A Bb C - Mixolidian
C D E G A C - Common to all major modes


hey, wait a minute??? The common notes between the three modes form the pentatonic major!!!
So, that means, that I can I improvise with pentatonic and then add two more notes to get all modes??? Yep...

Our ears are more used to hear the normal major scale (Ionian). So if you add the F or B you will probably hear that. But if you add the F# you wiil hear Lidian. That means that in order to get a Lydian sound it is more important to add the F#, but you can also add the B...
The same goes for mixolidian and Bb




hehe too mutch Theory informaction for me tongue.gif but i'm thing i'm got you what you wana tell me
if i'm right..i'm was right with my last reply..actualy the main point is if i'm know the Major modes formulas for example Lidian or Mixoldian and Minor modes formulas -Phrygian then i'm can use the extra notes when i'm playing for example Pentatonic minor right??? but same way i'm can use the extra note when i'm play no mather which scale

so like you tell me before for diferent fealing i'm can add for example to C-minor penta Db note for Phrygian flavor right??

so when i'm be know for example the Phrygian mode of scale...and i'm be play C-minor Penta and key of song be C..can i'm play the scale then can i'm add there the Db note and continue with litle Phrygian scale run and then coming back to the Cm-penta???

thank you for caring me cool.gif

QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Jun 9 2008, 08:46 PM) *
Great post Gus !

Besip, Modes are a fascinatingway to learn new sounds and feels, and Pentatonic is a great way to base it all on one familiar scale as you are finding out. This can be very confusing though so be sure to think about it and ask if you are confused smile.gif



yeaaahhh i'm little confused rolleyes.gif but thats ok i'm know i'm have to learn more stuff before i'm reach the modes and chord progresion but i'm like improvise ass weell and now i'm geting stuck with my impro..maybe i'm not be able to play modes yet but lookss like i'm start understat something what looks too big form and...if i'm just little understand something from the modes{i'm belive} thats enough for me becouse like i'mm write before i'm probaly not be able to play them yet but i'm probalyy starting understand them
litle laugh.gif


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besip
post Jun 12 2008, 04:35 AM
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I'm got it and thats easy rolleyes.gif {the modes}
for example The natural minor and Phrygian are diferent just by 1 note tongue.gif and if i'm know the natural Minor and want to change for Phrygiani just change the 2 semitone note{from root note}
to first semitone{from root note}

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This post has been edited by besip: Jun 12 2008, 04:37 AM


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