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> Need New Scales, leaving mr.Pentatonic
Marshmall0wz
post Jun 24 2008, 03:40 AM
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I need help! i cant get out of the Minor Pentatonic. What other scales sound good in alternative rock music. or just rock in general?
thx smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif


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fatb0t
post Jun 24 2008, 05:37 AM
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Learn the Aeolian mode or the natural minor scale as it's known. If you learn it on all 7 positions - you learn all the other modes at the same time!
Check out Andrews theory lessons on the forum, you got lots of reading to do...
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fkalich
post Jun 24 2008, 07:04 AM
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QUOTE (fatb0t @ Jun 23 2008, 11:37 PM) *
Learn the Aeolian mode or the natural minor scale as it's known. If you learn it on all 7 positions - you learn all the other modes at the same time!
Check out Andrews theory lessons on the forum, you got lots of reading to do...


The Aeolian is not the same thing as natural minor.
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SamJ
post Jun 24 2008, 07:24 AM
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QUOTE (fkalich @ Jun 24 2008, 07:04 AM) *
The Aeolian is not the same thing as natural minor.


Hmmm...I thought it was...

CODE
Scale - Aeolian
1,2,b3,4,5,b6,b7

FULL-th pattern
Root note - D


CODE
Scale - Natural (Pure) Minor
1,2,b3,4,5,b6,b7

FULL-th pattern
Root note - D


This post has been edited by Sam Hook: Jun 24 2008, 07:27 AM
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Muris Varajic
post Jun 24 2008, 07:29 AM
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QUOTE (fkalich @ Jun 24 2008, 08:04 AM) *
The Aeolian is not the same thing as natural minor.


It Is smile.gif


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PassionPlay
post Jun 24 2008, 08:02 AM
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QUOTE (fatb0t @ Jun 24 2008, 06:37 AM) *
Learn the Aeolian mode or the natural minor scale as it's known. If you learn it on all 7 positions - you learn all the other modes at the same time!
Check out Andrews theory lessons on the forum, you got lots of reading to do...


Yeah that will probably be a good place to start.
Or the Ionian maybe?
If you are up to some more exotic stuff then try the Hirajoshi or something smile.gif
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fkalich
post Jun 24 2008, 08:05 AM
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it isn't.

this quote explains it.

"As polyphonic music replaced mediaeval monophonic church music, the folk modes added by Glarean became the basis of the minor/major division of classical European music, the Aeolian mode forming the natural minor mode. However, it would not be correct to refer to any piece in a now-traditional minor key as being in the Aeolian mode, which would imply that the style of the piece was modal, which is usually not the case with music in a minor key as understood today. In particular, the main (but probably not only) difference would be that the minor-key piece would frequently use the raised 7th degree as its leading note, particularly in the use of dominant-7th harmony, whereas the Aeolian piece would rarely or never use such a raised leading note, and its dominant chord would be a minor triad or minor triad plus minor 7th."

Muris is one of those I respect most here, just wanted to make that clear.

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Jerry Arcidiacon...
post Jun 24 2008, 08:20 AM
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QUOTE (Marshmall0wz @ Jun 24 2008, 04:40 AM) *
What other scales sound good in alternative rock music. or just rock in general?
thx smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif


Beyond Aeolian you can take a look at Dorian mode - good in a minor context most of the time - and the Mixolydian mode, which sounds good over X7 chords. A great tip is to mix Mixolydian with the Blues scale.

QUOTE (fkalich @ Jun 24 2008, 09:05 AM) *
"As polyphonic music replaced mediaeval monophonic church music, the folk modes added by Glarean became the basis of the minor/major division of classical European music, the Aeolian mode forming the natural minor mode. However, it would not be correct to refer to any piece in a now-traditional minor key as being in the Aeolian mode, which would imply that the style of the piece was modal, which is usually not the case with music in a minor key as understood today. In particular, the main (but probably not only) difference would be that the minor-key piece would frequently use the raised 7th degree as its leading note, particularly in the use of dominant-7th harmony, whereas the Aeolian piece would rarely or never use such a raised leading note, and its dominant chord would be a minor triad or minor triad plus minor 7th."


Good point about modal music. This is the reason we have those different names.
Writing down the notes we can see they have the same ones. This happens for other scales.
As example, Phrygian dominant can be called also Jewish scale or Spanish gypsy scale.


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Jun 24 2008, 11:08 AM
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Good point about the modal rule, didn't know that. I also say Aeolian when I mean A minor because of the referencing and easier explanation. If I needed to explain someone about Aeolian use in medieval period, they would looked pretty confused. unsure.gif

About going out of the pentatonic scale. Well, start by going to Andrew's theory lessons and checking out about scales and modes. From there you can approach to learning those stuff in a much more organized way than just adding notes and not knowing the modes theory. It is actually not complicated at all once you understand it.


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Gus
post Jun 24 2008, 02:40 PM
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I would say, it is easier to first get out of the pentatonic 1 note at a time.

1) Try adding the blues notes.
2) Try adding phrygian characteristic note (here is one example https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/solo-guit...n-pentatonics/)
3) Try adding dorian characteristic note (here is one example
https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/solo-guit...atonics-lesson/ )

Sounds different already, hum?


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Pablo Vazquez
post Jun 24 2008, 09:10 PM
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Maybe you'll be interested with the Hirojoshi scale... unsure.gif smile.gif

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Muris Varajic
post Jun 24 2008, 10:28 PM
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BTW,since you're all in minor pent. scale,
what about major keys?
Major scale,major pentatonic,Mixolydian,Lydian etc. smile.gif


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jacmoe
post Jun 24 2008, 10:39 PM
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Marshmall0wz, try to mix between Minor Pentatonic, Blues scale and Dorian!
And you get the feel of diatonic scales while still sounding bluesy. wink.gif


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Marshmall0wz
post Jun 25 2008, 05:41 AM
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yeah ill start with aeolian and then go 2 Ionian


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Juan M. Valero
post Jun 25 2008, 05:54 AM
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QUOTE (fkalich @ Jun 24 2008, 09:05 AM) *
it isn't.

this quote explains it.

"As polyphonic music replaced mediaeval monophonic church music, the folk modes added by Glarean became the basis of the minor/major division of classical European music, the Aeolian mode forming the natural minor mode. However, it would not be correct to refer to any piece in a now-traditional minor key as being in the Aeolian mode, which would imply that the style of the piece was modal, which is usually not the case with music in a minor key as understood today. In particular, the main (but probably not only) difference would be that the minor-key piece would frequently use the raised 7th degree as its leading note, particularly in the use of dominant-7th harmony, whereas the Aeolian piece would rarely or never use such a raised leading note, and its dominant chord would be a minor triad or minor triad plus minor 7th."

Muris is one of those I respect most here, just wanted to make that clear.



good point !!! tongue.gif


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Gus
post Jun 25 2008, 08:33 AM
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Just one more post on the "off-topic" aeolian vs minor controversy.

From the explanation fkalich posted it seems that the difference between aeolian and natural minor is that minor would include eventual change into harmonic minor? I must confess I got a little bit confused huh.gif and it seems to be easier to think that as historical issues and just think of them as the same...

This post has been edited by Gus: Jun 25 2008, 08:38 AM


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jacmoe
post Jun 25 2008, 08:43 AM
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That quote is just saying that a piece can be in minor without being modal.
And it would be wrong to call it Aolian because of that. wink.gif

It does not say that Aolian is not natural minor, which it is.


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Start by playing something - a bend, a riff, a scale, a song - very slowly; if you make a mistake, start over; do this over and over, until you can play it flawlessly - and I do mean flawlessly - many times in a row. Next, gradually increase the tempo. Eventually you'll be flailing like a madman.
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Ivan Milenkovic
post Jun 25 2008, 10:51 AM
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My thoughts exactly. wink.gif


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Juan M. Valero
post Jun 25 2008, 01:11 PM
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well, minor actually is formed by natural minor, melodic minor and harmonic minor... that's the reason why we should take care with the term "minor".

The question is: Is natural minor the same as aeolian ??


Well, sorry... offtopic again...



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jacmoe
post Jun 25 2008, 06:57 PM
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Aolian is the same as natural minor.
Can be seen as a mode in the major scale.
(Fingerings/notes are the same).

The harmonic minor is a scale in itself (even if only one note is different), as is the melodic minor (two different notes).

That gives us three different scales for modes.

This post has been edited by jacmoe: Jun 25 2008, 06:58 PM


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