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> New 7 String Neck, ...would it be worth it?
Caelumamittendum
post Jul 17 2008, 10:39 PM
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Hey everyone!

Reading the "Ibanez vs. Schecter" thread, I suddenly realized, that I could actually do something about the intonation problem that I have with my Schecter. It is one of those problems caused by too large changes in humidity and I have yet to see it properly "repaired" - even by guitar shops. So I don't really think it is possible.

My problem in short:
Every fret above the 5th fret are somewhat fine, with some being a little bit off in intonation, however the first five frets on all strings are badly off (well, like 1/4 of a semitone).


Then I got to think. Would it help out on this if I bought a new neck for it - as it must be within there the problem lies? Would that solve it?


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Muris Varajic
post Jul 17 2008, 11:37 PM
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Probably it needs fine intonation tuning
except if neck is really ruined,twisted or som mellow.gif


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Caelumamittendum
post Jul 17 2008, 11:41 PM
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QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Jul 18 2008, 12:37 AM) *
Probably it needs fine intonation tuning
except if neck is really ruined,twisted or som mellow.gif


Well, I've had several shops and guitar repair men or technicians or whatever they are called look at it. Either they kinda fix it and give me the responds: "This is the best that can be done to it", or they say: "can't be fixed, sorry".

I read somewhere, that Ron Jarzombek had a similar problem with one of his guitars. Unfortunately I can't find the link anymore and I can't remember what he did to fix it.

As far as I understand though, it's has not got much to do with the bridge etc. as it is not a general problem concerning all of the fretboard, but rather only the first five frets or so. I'm no expert though, so I wouldn't really know.


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Muris Varajic
post Jul 17 2008, 11:47 PM
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Maybe first 5 frets are disordered somehow (scale wise)
or you need smaller frets,
jumbo frets easily go out of tune if you even little bit harder.

Did you buy it new,when did you notice this problem btw?


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Caelumamittendum
post Jul 17 2008, 11:54 PM
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QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Jul 18 2008, 12:47 AM) *
Maybe first 5 frets are disordered somehow (scale wise)
or you need smaller frets,
jumbo frets easily go out of tune if you even little bit harder.

Did you buy it new,when did you notice this problem btw?


I bought it used. Well, from a shop really, but the shop had "bought" it used from someone. I've had the guitar for about 4 years now - so it's fairly old. Besides, I can't find any info on it, as it is an out-of-stuck and discontinued model. Maybe I should write a mail to Schecter Guitars about this. They may be able to clear things - though I have no idea about what they could do or offer.

I noticed the problem about a year ago, when me and my "band" moved to a new rehearsal room, where we had no heating. I was as stupid as to leave the guitar without a case and it stood there for some days. I didn't notice it straight away while playing, but as I got a further look at it, when being alone in the room, just random practicing, I noticed that chords utilizing the first five frets way somewhat off and bad-sounding. Especially any chord played on the 1st fret (F, Fm etc.). I took a closer look at it with an autotuner, and I could confirm that it didn't intonate correctly.

So, if I want those five frets to intonate correctly, I have to tune the open strings (EADGBE) down a bit (about 1/4 of a semitone). When I do that however, frets above the 5th fret intonates badly, as well as chords with open strings sounding weird.

Yeah, it's a complicated deal, I geuss! laugh.gif

This post has been edited by Caelumamittendum: Jul 17 2008, 11:57 PM


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Muris Varajic
post Jul 18 2008, 12:00 AM
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Now totally stupid one,
when did you restring it?


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Tjchep
post Jul 18 2008, 12:01 AM
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QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Jul 17 2008, 11:54 PM) *
I bought it used. Well, from a shop really, but the shop had "bought" it used from someone. I've had the guitar for about 4 years now - so it's fairly old. Besides, I can't find any info on it, as it is an out-of-stuck and discontinued model. Maybe I should write a mail to Schecter Guitars about this. They may be able to clear things - though I have no idea about what they could do or offer.

I noticed the problem about a year ago, when me and my "band" moved to a new rehearsal room, where we had no heating. I was as stupid as to leave the guitar without a case and it stood there for some days. I didn't notice it straight away while playing, but as I got a further look at it, when being alone in the room, just random practicing, I noticed that chords utilizing the first five frets way somewhat off and bad-sounding. Especially any chord played on the 1st fret (F, Fm etc.). I took a closer look at it with an autotuner, and I could confirm that it didn't intonate correctly.

So, if I want those five frets to intonate correctly, I have to tune the open strings (EADGBE) down a bit (about 1/4 of a semitone). When I do that however, frets above the 5th fret intonates badly, as well as chords with open strings sounding weird.

Yeah, it's a complicated deal, I geuss! laugh.gif



Write a mail to schecter, but If you include that you kept it in your rehearsal room for days without a case they won't help you I'm sure.

Just say you just started getting these problems and this shouldn't have just started happening within the last few months.

They should be happy to replace your guitar or take it back and fix it.


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Caelumamittendum
post Jul 18 2008, 12:06 AM
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QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Jul 18 2008, 01:00 AM) *
Now totally stupid one,
when did you restring it?


Well, I re-stringed it back in January, and back in November and back in September before that.

The one in September was because I amongst other thought it could be a string problem - it remained the same.
The one in November was because the guitar guy thought it could be a string problem, so as he "tried" to fix it, he restringed it, problem remained the same.
The one in January was due to new pick-ups. (Why the hell did I do that with a guitar that has bad intonation problems!?

That said, I have of course played a bit with it, so I cannot see the problem being either due to new strings nor old strings. But please, do prove me wrong! smile.gif

QUOTE (Tjchep @ Jul 18 2008, 01:01 AM) *
Write a mail to schecter, but If you include that you kept it in your rehearsal room for days without a case they won't help you I'm sure.

Just say you just started getting these problems and this shouldn't have just started happening within the last few months.

They should be happy to replace your guitar or take it back and fix it.


Well, I'm sure the waranty is way overdue, as I've had the guitar for 4 years, and it's even older than that. But sure, man! I'll do that!


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Muris Varajic
post Jul 18 2008, 12:37 AM
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Try with some other shops/luthiers,
if not then go for new neck,
I see no other option...


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Caelumamittendum
post Jul 18 2008, 12:40 AM
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QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Jul 18 2008, 01:37 AM) *
Try with some other shops/luthiers,
if not then go for new neck,
I see no other option...


Right, thanks! I will do. Will try and state my problem loud and clear and hopefully get a decent respons.

I've already sent an email to Schecter Guitars, so I'll see what they say first though.

But... it's not really that big a deal, I rarely play it these days.


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kjutte
post Jul 18 2008, 11:34 PM
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QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Jul 18 2008, 01:40 AM) *
Right, thanks! I will do. Will try and state my problem loud and clear and hopefully get a decent respons.

I've already sent an email to Schecter Guitars, so I'll see what they say first though.

But... it's not really that big a deal, I rarely play it these days.


I kept one of my guitars a long time out of tune ,and now its neck is twisted too sad.gif
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wrk
post Jul 19 2008, 12:44 AM
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QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Jul 18 2008, 12:41 AM) *
... "This is the best that can be done to it", or they say: "can't be fixed, sorry".

Answers like this without any explanation why it can not be fix would make me skeptical. If they know what they do they can at least explain what is wrong.

Before you buy a new neck, try to find a luthier to have a look at this as Muris suggested.

I'm not an expert, but electric guitars are not that fragile. Maybe temporarily ... but back in an good environment and after adjusting the intonation a few times it should come back in "shape".






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Caelumamittendum
post Jul 19 2008, 02:42 AM
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QUOTE (wrk @ Jul 19 2008, 01:44 AM) *
Answers like this without any explanation why it can not be fix would make me skeptical. If they know what they do they can at least explain what is wrong.

Before you buy a new neck, try to find a luthier to have a look at this as Muris suggested.

I'm not an expert, but electric guitars are not that fragile. Maybe temporarily ... but back in an good environment and after adjusting the intonation a few times it should come back in "shape".


I've had a guy who builds guitar for a living look at it, and he could minimize the bad intonation, but couldn't fix it 100%. And as I'm looking for 100% or at least 99%, it didn't help much. (I did have him fix it as much as he could though.)

Anyways. I'm not prepared to put in more cash on this at the very moment - not for luthiers to try and repair it. I have my other guitars - 6 strings, which I prefer. smile.gif


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Jul 19 2008, 09:49 AM
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Sometimes guitars don't come from the factory as they are supposed to be. SOmetimes even luthiers don't make them perfect. How one guitar sounds depends also on the players - if he bangs it hard you will get buzzing in no time. If you play gently all the time, you can get a lower action and will experience less string buzz.
MOst of the time some buzzing is OK, but if you loose sustain, specially on 12th fret and above, then adjusting the truss rod, string height and intonation is needed.

Often it is best to take the guitar to luthier to do the job, but IMO people often think that luthier is some kind of magician that will make the guitar play wonderously straight away. If the guitar has a poor frat job it will NOT play good, no matter what the guy do. Doing a new fret job is the only solution, and even then the outcome is not certain, because of the neck curvature, refreting, etc..

THe ideal solution is to make the neck straight, and frets to go from highest (on open) to lowest height (on 22-24 fret). Then will create a more natural neck relief, and not many luthiers know how to do it, so often they just don't.


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Caelumamittendum
post Jul 19 2008, 01:01 PM
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QUOTE (Ivan Milenkovic @ Jul 19 2008, 10:49 AM) *
Sometimes guitars don't come from the factory as they are supposed to be. SOmetimes even luthiers don't make them perfect. How one guitar sounds depends also on the players - if he bangs it hard you will get buzzing in no time. If you play gently all the time, you can get a lower action and will experience less string buzz.
MOst of the time some buzzing is OK, but if you loose sustain, specially on 12th fret and above, then adjusting the truss rod, string height and intonation is needed.

Often it is best to take the guitar to luthier to do the job, but IMO people often think that luthier is some kind of magician that will make the guitar play wonderously straight away. If the guitar has a poor frat job it will NOT play good, no matter what the guy do. Doing a new fret job is the only solution, and even then the outcome is not certain, because of the neck curvature, refreting, etc..

THe ideal solution is to make the neck straight, and frets to go from highest (on open) to lowest height (on 22-24 fret). Then will create a more natural neck relief, and not many luthiers know how to do it, so often they just don't.


I'm sorry, Ivan, but I'm not sure you got the problem right wink.gif I have no problems with fret buzz, but with bad intonation, meaning that it sounds off if I play notes on the first 5 frets. They're approximately 1/4 of a semitone of (according to my autotuner, that is.) smile.gif


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