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sigma7
post Jul 20 2008, 06:55 PM
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Well, I decided to make a two part epic guitar song. This came to me when I saw the epic composition of Marcus and Kris in Nocturnal Vision. I just have a couple of questions though. The scale I am using is a C minor scale but the song is supposed to have an ascending mood. Since it is c minor it naturally has a sad vibe to it. My question is how do I switch the C minor scale to other scales throughout the song in an ascending manner (sad to happy) and wut scales to use for the happy vibe?

Thanks smile.gif


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Tolek
post Jul 20 2008, 07:03 PM
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I would suggest Eb Major. The number of "b"s is the same than in C minor. Most bands use these linked scales to change the mood of the song. wink.gif

This post has been edited by Tolek: Jul 20 2008, 07:04 PM
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Andrew Cockburn
post Jul 20 2008, 07:28 PM
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QUOTE (Tolek @ Jul 20 2008, 02:03 PM) *
I would suggest Eb Major. The number of "b"s is the same than in C minor. Most bands use these linked scales to change the mood of the song. wink.gif


Good suggestion! Eb is the relative Ionian of C minor - also you could try the other relative major modes such as Ab Lydian and Bb Mixolydian


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robbcorp
post Jul 20 2008, 07:33 PM
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You can also change the chords up a bit. C minor (C D Eb F G Ab Bb) is going to sound minor of a Cminor chord (C Eb G) however we can take that Eb major (Eb F G Ab Bb C D) a suggested above, build an Eb major chord (Eb G Bb) and then you can solo over that still in Cminor but the sound should come up more major. Just reiterating Tolek, Cminor is also the relative minor of Eb major.

edit: Ah a bit late on the relative minor idea wink.gif

This post has been edited by robbcorp: Jul 20 2008, 07:33 PM
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sigma7
post Jul 20 2008, 11:11 PM
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thanks for the theory help guys, im gonna put use suggestions to use happy.gif


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kjutte
post Jul 21 2008, 12:18 AM
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QUOTE (sigma7 @ Jul 20 2008, 07:55 PM) *
Well, I decided to make a two part epic guitar song. This came to me when I saw the epic composition of Marcus and Kris in Nocturnal Vision. I just have a couple of questions though. The scale I am using is a C minor scale but the song is supposed to have an ascending mood. Since it is c minor it naturally has a sad vibe to it. My question is how do I switch the C minor scale to other scales throughout the song in an ascending manner (sad to happy) and wut scales to use for the happy vibe?

Thanks smile.gif


welllllllllll, that depends on which chords are being used man. Gotta know that first.

Edit:
The chord progression will define your ascendance.

Perhaps if you first go through the minor modes, then major, and last diminished?

VI-II-VI-III-VI minor part

maybe modulate to major?

I-IV-I-V

and last maybe some variations of locrian?

Just find the VII around the fretboard. If you dunno how, use fretpro or a chord dictionary.

And honestly, I am no good with chord progressions in practic use, I just know how they work kontra scales.
I'd love to be corrected so that I learn about more melodic compositions.

Edit again: You might wanna do diminished, minor, major progression instead of the [poo] I just wrote tongue.gif

Edited for language - Andrew

This post has been edited by Andrew Cockburn: Jul 21 2008, 01:25 AM
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sigma7
post Jul 21 2008, 12:21 AM
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k im using Cm, D dim, A#, G# add9, Gm, Fm. D#


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kjutte
post Jul 21 2008, 12:30 AM
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QUOTE (sigma7 @ Jul 21 2008, 01:21 AM) *
k im using Cm, D dim, A#, G# add9, Gm, Fm. D#


Ok, you basically just wanna sort them all, and build a firm progression. You will use the same scale here anyway.

QUOTE (Tolek @ Jul 20 2008, 08:03 PM) *
I would suggest Eb Major. The number of "b"s is the same than in C minor. Most bands use these linked scales to change the mood of the song. wink.gif


That's just a relative major, and it won't change the mood unless the chord changes.
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sigma7
post Jul 21 2008, 12:32 AM
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thanks kjutte ill take ur advice haha
. Now that I no I need a firm chord progression, would that chord progression drastically change when I switch to the major scale?



This post has been edited by sigma7: Jul 21 2008, 12:33 AM


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kjutte
post Jul 21 2008, 12:40 AM
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QUOTE (sigma7 @ Jul 21 2008, 01:32 AM) *
thanks ill take ur advice haha


It's really the easiest.
Remember that each of these chords will make your scale sound 'special', so sort them carefully.

Even if you play in C minor, it will still SOUND lydian when you're playing a G#major chord.
That aside, you're really just modulating when you're changing root, but it doesn't really matter when you're just following one scale.

QUOTE (sigma7 @ Jul 21 2008, 01:32 AM) *
thanks kjutte ill take ur advice haha
. Now that I no I need a firm chord progression, would that chord progression drastically change when I switch to the major scale?


That's the thing I am saying, your chords positions define the sound of it. You just keep to your Cminor SCALE, but the sound characteristic will still go major, minor and diminished if you play the chords in a correct progression.

a standard modal progression (not sorted, it's directly derived from the major scale), could be:

Cmin Ddim D#maj Fmin Gmin G#maj A#7

This will make your sound go, from the same Cminor scale:
Minor
Locrian
Major
Dorian
Phrygian
Lydian
Mixolydian

Again, these are just sound characteristics. To really modulate, you have to change your root.
(although you really are getting the modal sound. I know this is confusing..)

Edit again:

Incase you don't know the modes, this is their major groups.

Major:
Ionian (major)
Lydian
Mixolydian (although this tinker has a flat 7th, so the chord for it should be X7 instead of Xmajor7. Meaning it has a major 3 and minor 7, also called dominant)

Minor:
Aeolian (minor)
Dorian
Phrygian

And finally Diminished:
Locrian. (although it has a minor 3rd, it is still diminished because of the flat 5. A flat 5th note sounds very strange compared to ordinary stuff)

And another:

I should also add the criterias for major minor and dim triads.

Major: Root, maj 3 perfect 5
Minor: Root, min 3, perfect 5
Diminished: Root, min 3, flat5 (or diminished 5)

This post has been edited by Chris Evans: May 29 2009, 04:45 PM
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sigma7
post Jul 21 2008, 12:50 AM
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ahhhh theory overload haha it does make sense to me thanks kjutte


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kjutte
post Jul 21 2008, 12:52 AM
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QUOTE (sigma7 @ Jul 21 2008, 01:50 AM) *
ahhhh theory overload haha it does make sense to me thanks kjutte


I had a hard time understanding it too, man.
Tell me if there's any trouble smile.gif
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