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> Talent, Practice makes perfect?
mattacuk
post Jul 23 2008, 05:54 PM
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QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Jul 23 2008, 12:54 PM) *
95% hard work + 5% motivation , my 2 cents smile.gif


Absolutely!!

I tend to look at some of your hardest lessons and think, if he can do it, I can do it !! Of course it might take me all year to perfect, but does that really matter? Not in my books smile.gif

A positive mental attitude is half the battle biggrin.gif


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Daniel Robinson
post Jul 23 2008, 08:00 PM
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I think Albert Einstein put it best.


Genius is 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration.


My feeling is that if you can have just a small bit of creativity and put your whole self into it you can acheive greatness.


The other thing is about practice, people always say "Practice makes perfect"

But i think my martial arts instructor was more right when he said "Perfect practice makes perfect"

If you practice the wrong way, or all the wrong things you won't get nearly as much out of it as if you practice the right way with enthusiasm.

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swingline
post Jul 23 2008, 08:34 PM
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I don't think talent really exists, I have never seen anyone just grab a guitar ( or any other instrument for that matter) and start shredding. The only people that I can honestly say have talent are autistic people, but that's another story. wink.gif


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Bogdan Radovic
post Jul 23 2008, 11:16 PM
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I think that talent is what drives you to start playing and motivates you to practice.And practice does the rest smile.gif


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wrk
post Jul 24 2008, 12:12 AM
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QUOTE (Daniel Robinson @ Jul 23 2008, 09:00 PM) *
Genius is 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration.

The funny thing is that a genius is never seeing himself as one, as for them it seems to be completely normal! ... smile.gif

There is of course a difference between talent and being a genius, but my understanding of talent has the same tendency. With this definition i believe something like talent is existing. If it makes your life easier is another question. To have special abilities often involves to have disabilities in other areas (social competences, etc ..). Other than that, the word talent is too easily used, as said above.

smile.gif .. but to hear to have talent is really motivating. So, to all you talented people here at GMC, use your talent and practice hard !! smile.gif





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John In Socal
post Jul 24 2008, 12:37 AM
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excellent question. For guitar obviously any great guitarist has put in tremendous practice to reach the level they are at. I believe with great practice you can become a very good guitar player or musician, even a professional. But there is definately something to be said for talent or creativity when it comes to creating songs or particularly memorable melodies / riffs, etc. Obviously some song writers are better than others and it's not a matter of a technique, or a theory or some mode or something that can be practiced. Song writers have to start somewhere and practice will bring you to a certain point, but I definately believe there is a natural born talent to create great music and either you have that or you don't. If you don't have that natural born talent you can still come up with good stuff, however I think that natural born talent is what seperates the good players from the truly greats. Lots of guitar players can learn songs or riffs or solos from the greats and play them fine, but can they come up with those classic riffs themselves ? Can they put together a brian may solo themselves that has the same impact ? Lots of things go into being a comercial success with a band etc. but coming up with some of the classic all time riffs I believe is more about talent than ability. I mean much of the great all time known rifffs are actually quite simple to play, it's not a blaze of notes, think page riffs, joe walsh, brian may, etc. Most great songs are not about technique or blazing speed, it's about melody. How do you write a truly great melody that millions will love ? Can you learn to do that ? I don't believe so. I think either you can do that or you can't. If you have the natural born ability to do that then I think after learning some of the basics about how songs work, etc. then you can go ahead and create those great songs. I don't believe any amount of practice can make you a truly great song writer. But it can make you very accomplished at a particular instrument.

Things brings up a story of mine, when I was in high school I was a drummer in a jazz band and we had a visiting student come play with us for a while. She was an amazing piano player, should could play any classical piece you put in front of here, absolutely stunning. So I was thrilled she was going to sit in with our jazz band for a bit. But she couldn't play a swing / jazz song to save her life, no rhythm at all. She could play the notes but they had no feeling, no swing, if it wasn't written down in an exact timing on sheet music she had trouble playing it. So I was trying to help her and eventually said forget the piano, and put on some music and said lets's dance. She coudln't dance with any type of rhythm. Obviously this is an extreme story and perhaps given time she would have picked up rhythm.

-- john

This post has been edited by John In Socal: Jul 24 2008, 12:39 AM
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Muris Varajic
post Jul 24 2008, 12:44 AM
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QUOTE (mattacuk @ Jul 23 2008, 06:54 PM) *
Absolutely!!

I tend to look at some of your hardest lessons and think, if he can do it, I can do it !! Of course it might take me all year to perfect, but does that really matter? Not in my books smile.gif

A positive mental attitude is half the battle biggrin.gif



Absolutely Matt! smile.gif

And have one thing on your mind,
I've been playing for 14 year so far with really
intensive routine back in days,6-7 hours per day or som.

So it's just about how hard you're giving yourself
and don't count a lot on talent. biggrin.gif


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Tjchep
post Jul 24 2008, 01:15 AM
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Talent is ones inherent desire to achieve something.

Easily put if you want to become a pro guitar player. All you have to have determination to be it, and if you put the work forth, you will indeed become that professional guitar player.


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jacmoe
post Jul 24 2008, 11:26 AM
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Kris has said that he's got no talent, and that you can beat him through hard work. smile.gif


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Eat-Sleep-andJam
post Jul 24 2008, 03:06 PM
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I do believe in Talent, but in much smaller measures and maybe even in a different outlook.
I have seen kids on the news in the past that had a very natural gift for music. When I say natural gift, I am describing playing Mozart symphonies or what not at a VERY low age on piano or something like that. However that does not explain my point.

You could spend your whole life, watching others achieve greatness. You might not try to reach their level because you believe they are simply "Talented". When In reality, all that time you spent in awe by their skills could have been spent practicing hard to achieve their level of musical greatness.

I do believe some people get things faster then others but I do not believe that should prevent anyone from trying to reach their level. The word Talent is very general. I believe in our time it is used so much that It becomes an Excuse for those who have yet to reach the level of other Musical "Talents".

I however like to think others are "Talented", that way I work harder to one day have someone refer to me as "Talented".
I used the word as motivation, and I dont think it should be anything more than that.


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Skyla°Lit
post Jul 24 2008, 03:08 PM
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I find it kind of weird that some of you GMC'ers keep rejecting the existence of Talent smile.gif
I'm pretty sure though each of us can recognize talent when he/she sees one...

If 10 students were put in front of you and 1 out of 10 was obviously putting much less effort than the other 9 in excelling at some music piece??
How do we call that??

If 2 out of 10 were obviously better at composing something decent than the other 8??
Now, how do we call that??

If a newbie 10-year old guitarist managed to ride the instrument better than the 16-year old who'd been practicing for a couple of months already??
And so on and on and on....

Talent does exist... but whether it will be converted into some extraordinary musical skills through practice (!!) depends on the talent bearer...
Every person is talented in one way or another... If it's not predispositon to composing awesome melodies, writing great lyrics, becoming the best guitar teacher ever or an incredible sound engineer etc... it might be just about anything else. But there is always smth you grasp with unbelievable easiness, as if you've been doing it for your whole life..

Now, I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with not having as much musical talent as the other guy... You can beat his natural born talent with soooo many things, hard work included of course... But the thing is there is no need in trying to beat any talent in the first place... There is even no need in trying to label yourself or others as talented or less talented...
Music is Pure Creativity, it's about self-expression Here & Now...
It's not about questioning whether you have got talent or not;
It's not about projecting yourself into the future trying to predict/unpredict a crowd of devoted fans;
It's not about wondering whether you are going to make a living as a musician or not;
It's not about desperately looking for evidence that talent doesn't count but practice does;
It's not about thinking whether you are too old or your fingers too rigid to even attempt at becoming a pro... Even if you start off at 11 you can never ever be sure you will get to the destination point. Therefore, only the journey made up of thousands of here's and now's matters;
And it's definitely not about comparing yourself and your playing to others...

Less of the tiresome thinking and more of the enjoyable doing will get each of us where we wanna be smile.gif



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Muris Varajic
post Jul 24 2008, 03:08 PM
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QUOTE (Eat-Sleep-andJam @ Jul 24 2008, 04:06 PM) *
I do believe in Talent, but in much smaller measures and maybe even in a different outlook.
I have seen kids on the news in the past that had a very natural gift for music. When I say natural gift, I am describing playing Mozart symphonies or what not at a VERY low age on piano or something like that. However that does not explain my point.

You could spend your whole life, watching others achieve greatness. You might not try to reach their level because you believe they are simply "Talented". When In reality, all that time you spent in awe by their skills could have been spent practicing hard to achieve their level of musical greatness.

I do believe some people get things faster then others but I do not believe that should prevent anyone from trying to reach their level. The word Talent is very general. I believe in our time it is used so much that It becomes an Excuse for those who have yet to reach the level of other Musical "Talents".

I however like to think others are "Talented", that way I work harder to one day have someone refer to me as "Talented".
I used the word as motivation, and I dont think it should be anything more than that.


Motivation is the word,yes. smile.gif


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Eat-Sleep-andJam
post Jul 24 2008, 03:24 PM
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QUOTE (Skyla°Lit @ Jul 24 2008, 06:08 AM) *
I find it kind of weird that some of you GMC'ers keep rejecting the existence of Talent smile.gif
I'm pretty sure though each of us can recognize talent when he/she sees one...

If 10 students were put in front of you and 1 out of 10 was obviously putting much less effort than the other 9 in excelling at some music piece??
How do we call that??

If 2 out of 10 were obviously better at composing something decent than the other 8??
Now, how do we call that??

If a newbie 10-year old guitarist managed to ride the instrument better than the 16-year old who'd been practicing for a couple of months already??
And so on and on and on....

Talent does exist... but whether it will be converted into some extraordinary musical skills through practice (!!) depends on the talent bearer...
Every person is talented in one way or another... If it's not predispositon to composing awesome melodies, writing great lyrics, becoming the best guitar teacher ever or an incredible sound engineer etc... it might be just about anything else. But there is always smth you grasp with unbelievable easiness, as if you've been doing it for your whole life..

Now, I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with not having as much musical talent as the other guy... You can beat his natural born talent with soooo many things, hard work included of course... But the thing is there is no need in trying to beat any talent in the first place... There is even no need in trying to label yourself or others as talented or less talented...
Music is Pure Creativity, it's about self-expression Here & Now...
It's not about questioning whether you have got talent or not;
It's not about projecting yourself into the future trying to predict/unpredict a crowd of devoted fans;
It's not about wondering whether you are going to make a living as a musician or not;
It's not about desperately looking for evidence that talent doesn't count but practice does;
It's not about thinking whether you are too old or your fingers too rigid to even attempt at becoming a pro... Even if you start off at 11 you can never ever be sure you will get to the destination point. Therefore, only the journey made up of thousands of here's and now's matters;
And it's definitely not about comparing yourself and your playing to others...

Less of the tiresome thinking and more of the enjoyable doing will get each of us where we wanna be smile.gif



+1 I understand your point exactly, I think the fact of the matter is, we all know of talent, but with are growing status as musicians we began to recognize and appreciate it in a different way.

So rather then saying " Hey that Steve Vai guy is really Talented !" ... we learn to say things like " Hey that Steve Vai guy makes really brilliant and innovative music !"


If that makes any sense biggrin.gif


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Skyla°Lit
post Jul 24 2008, 03:28 PM
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QUOTE (Eat-Sleep-andJam @ Jul 24 2008, 04:24 PM) *
+1 I understand your point exactly, I think the fact of the matter is, we all know of talent, but with are growing status as musicians we began to recognize and appreciate it in a different way.

So rather then saying " Hey that Steve Vai guy is really Talented !" ... we learn to say things like " Hey that Steve Vai guy makes really brilliant and innovative music !"


If that makes any sense biggrin.gif



Oh, it makes perfect sense to me smile.gif Absolutely smile.gif


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Muris Varajic
post Jul 24 2008, 03:33 PM
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Here's what I've experienced.

I have few students on private lessons.
They all work pretty hard I must say but some of them
have faster progress comparing to others.
So I asked them few questions,between the lines of course
and here's what I've found.

Those who progress fast are those who are really
trying to learn and understand things.
And those who are lacking with progress
are usually trying to impress someone with the playing.

So it's once again about motivation as far as I can see.
They all have motivation of course but some of them
have wrong cause of motivation. smile.gif


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Skyla°Lit
post Jul 24 2008, 04:00 PM
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QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Jul 24 2008, 04:33 PM) *
Here's what I've experienced.

I have few students on private lessons.
They all work pretty hard I must say but some of them
have faster progress comparing to others.
So I asked them few questions,between the lines of course
and here's what I've found.

Those who progress fast are those who are really
trying to learn and understand things.
And those who are lacking with progress
are usually trying to impress someone with the playing.

So it's once again about motivation as far as I can see.
They all have motivation of course but some of them
have wrong cause of motivation. smile.gif


It's about motivation first of all, I'd say smile.gif If there isn't motivation - there is no much progress... I agree with you on that one, Muris smile.gif

But once all of the students are equally and rightly motivated - talent might come in and do it's little thing as well...

My teacher once told me he had sooo many motivated students on private lessons, with so many eagerness, diligence, persistence not to say a light obsessiveness over the whole guitar playing subject... they all received the same professional guidance... but some just managed to dig in so naturally and so easily... while others had to struggle a little bit... and progress at their own slower pace smile.gif

Anyway, I think THE Talent I'm talking about can be developed to a certain extent...
I wouldn't be surprised if the difference between talented and seemingly (!) untalented people is in their somewhat distorted self-image... The very doubts you have got any talent at all may block The very talent you are desperately willin to have for years and years and years...



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mattacuk
post Jul 24 2008, 04:51 PM
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This is a truley EXCELLENT thread everyone, im very very impressed with everyone's contributions. As a result its now on the front page news updates smile.gif


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Gerardo Siere
post Jul 24 2008, 05:02 PM
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There is also talent for practice, that is getting good results of it by focusing good and doing your excercises good. There is also stuff like innate talente,and inatte better physical conditions to play guitar (more hand elasticity)


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FrankW
post Jul 24 2008, 05:10 PM
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QUOTE (swingline @ Jul 23 2008, 08:34 PM) *
I don't think talent really exists, I have never seen anyone just grab a guitar ( or any other instrument for that matter) and start shredding. The only people that I can honestly say have talent are autistic people, but that's another story. wink.gif


When I see these really young kids playing like top professionals, I have to question your statement. Nick Sterling was 8 years old and played "Cliffs of Dover" like Eric Johnson at a NAMM show a few years back. I'm no expert, but I think a "talented" person is one that picks up the subject matter quickly. The good news is that anyone can master the guitar if they put in enough work. To achieve this goal more quickly, one must work intelligently to that end. That requires discipline.
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vintageplaya666
post Jul 24 2008, 06:29 PM
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QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Jul 24 2008, 03:33 PM) *
Here's what I've experienced.

I have few students on private lessons.
They all work pretty hard I must say but some of them
have faster progress comparing to others.
So I asked them few questions,between the lines of course
and here's what I've found.

Those who progress fast are those who are really
trying to learn and understand things.
And those who are lacking with progress
are usually trying to impress someone with the playing.

So it's once again about motivation as far as I can see.
They all have motivation of course but some of them
have wrong cause of motivation. smile.gif


I'm with Muris on this one. Talent is down to Motovation. If you're motovated enough in you're instrument and Do put in all the hard work, then someone will find you Talented.

It's quite rare to find good Talent. Everyone has their own definition of 'Talent' So can we really pinpoint a true definition? I dont think we can.


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