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> How to advance from newbie to god?
MFC
post Jul 30 2006, 01:33 PM
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I have a simple question,

I am as I stated at some other point a newbie, I have played for less than a year and my "effective" playing time is probably less than three months I guess.

I am doing some scales just to get my fingers trained and to learn coordination. I also play some tunes with chords.

Now to the question. How do I advance from doing scales. I play some "solos" (Slash/Knocking on heavens door for instance) to just to have fun and actually learn one or two tunes. But from that I feel that I just sit and stare.

Should I do more scales, arpeggios. I mean, how did most of you learn to play. Probably not by just playing scales I guess ;-). I know that I could be better just playing the solos but I feel that I need to get up to a certain level before advance to the real stuff.

This may be categorized as philosofical, maybe I am just eager to play more and better fast but it would be nice to know the steps to take from here on.
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post Jul 30 2006, 01:40 PM
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Just to clarify, I would probably advance just by playing the stuff here but what I need help with is .. besides patience .. some tips on things to do to get that top notch precision with my fingers.

For example, I do the blues-scale (you probably which one I mean)

CODE
e-------------------------------5--8

B--------------------------5--8-----

G--------------------5-7-8----------

D----------------5-7----------------

A----------5-6-7--------------------

E-----5--8--------------------------


I got up to a certain speed.. and then I am stuck. I play two other scales but besides that I need something else to go forward.

any tips?
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sanders4617
post Jul 30 2006, 06:16 PM
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I am not a pro on guitar.. NOT AT ALL.. but IMO, you can't do scales constantly. First.. IMO.. If your going to do scales, you should actually learn about them. Learn the notes that are in the scales.. the name of them, etc. So many people just learn the fingerings.. and thats all fine, but if you seek to learn more.. Try learning the notes, etc.. Or maybe the theory of the scale. Also.. find friends, and play music with them. You might can play tons of scales.. but you gotta be able to play music too.

I learned the blues scale.. but it didn't help me play guitar. It did help me improvise.. but unless that is all you want to do, then I would say, don't depend on scales too much.


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Kristofer Dahl
post Jul 30 2006, 06:56 PM
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QUOTE (MFC)
I have a simple question,  

I am as I stated at some other point a newbie, I have played for less than a year and my "effective" playing time is probably less than  three months I guess.

I am doing some scales just to get my fingers trained and to learn coordination. I also play some tunes with chords.

Now to the question. How do I advance from doing scales. I play some "solos" (Slash/Knocking on heavens door for instance) to just to have fun and actually learn one or two tunes. But from that I feel that I just sit and stare.

Should I do more scales, arpeggios. I mean, how did most of you learn to play. Probably not by just playing scales I guess ;-). I know that I could be better just playing the solos but I feel that I need to get up to a certain level before advance to the real stuff.  

This may be categorized as philosofical, maybe I am just eager to play more and better fast but it would be nice to know the steps to take from here on.


I think I understand what you mean. I also remember the time I was longing for the "transition".

You should continue with the stuff you are doing + very actively push yourself to improvise around with a scale such as the pentatonic - not only playing it up and down like an exercise.

If you this, the improvisation will eventually "melt together" with your scale practicing.

How to start improvising? Well that's what we have all stuff here a gmc for! smile.gif

/Kris
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post Jul 31 2006, 07:33 AM
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QUOTE (sanders4617)
Learn the notes that are in the scales.. the name of them, etc... Or maybe the theory of the scale.

Sounds like a good idea.

QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl)
You should continue with the stuff you are doing + very actively push yourself to improvise around with a scale such as the pentatonic - not only playing it up and down like an exercise.

If you this, the improvisation will eventually "melt together" with your scale practicing.

That is what I am looking for, the ability to "float" away from the default set of notes and actually play something. I guess its all about pushing myself towards that ability.

Thanks for your thoughts and Ideas. I think I got what I wanted for now. I appreciate any tips and ideas I can get that can improve my playing ability.
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BollyRotten
post Jul 31 2006, 04:52 PM
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If you are very new to playing i think the main thing is to keep the interest up.
What i did was learn some basic songs with only a few chords and strum them. Within a week i was playing 5-6 songs that i knew and it made me feel great. "at last i can play someting that people can recongise!"

for me that was things like brown eyed girls. oasis songs, easy stuff like that.
I concentrated on Chords for a very long time. to be able to jump seamlessly from C,D, G took some doing , with my fingers going to every string that i dint want to play! Barre chords take a bit of learning but one mastered your away and running ! I beleive its Barre chords that are most beginners nightmare. (my Neice whos 15 canont and will not play an F) she just complains that its too hard. but without that ability you are in a spot of bother.
The Scales are important to they are great exercise and train your muscle memory. Will also help you out alot in your playing / improvisation. Learn the petationic 2 note per string scales , there is i think 5 different positions (well i know 5 only ) learn them all and how each pattern can be linkd to the other. this will give you an understanding where to go on the fretboard and still be in key. scales are always the same pattern no matter what key. you just have to know the key your in! start on the E string (thick one!) on 5th fret your in the key of A, start on say the 3rd fret E string your in G.
hope you can understand this, lol


--------------------
I need more fingers!
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Liam
post Jul 31 2006, 06:59 PM
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how to advance from newbie to god ??

wel some people are born gods like me . :sun laugh.gif

im kidding offcourse .

wel very short answer to your question .

learn and practice.
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post Aug 1 2006, 07:09 AM
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Great tips from you all, its appreciated! smile.gif
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Tank
post Aug 1 2006, 09:20 AM
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QUOTE (MFC)
Should I do more scales, arpeggios. I mean, how did most of you learn to play. Probably not by just playing scales I guess ;-). I know that I could be better just playing the solos but I feel that I need to get up to a certain level before advance to the real stuff.  


Heya,

I think that this is probably the biggest stumbling block for guitarists moving into the intermediate group. Andreas Segovia said that learning scales covers the greatest number of technical challenges in the shortest time. So they are definately worth sticking at. There was a post on the old forum a while back on learning the modes in scale form (I outlined a system for doing it), I don't know if it still exists.

But how do you progress once you've got a scale down pat in all positions to writing something, rather than just widdling up and down the scale? And how do you write, when you sit at a guitar and no melody comes to you?

One idea is to develop some patterns and then apply them up and down the scale. So stick to maybe 4 or 5 notes, across two strings. Try as many combinations of finger patterns on the notes as you can find. So for instance, using your pentatonic (with one note added)



Play the notes on the 8th fret with your third finger. For the note on the 10th fret, stretch your little finger up. Repeat each bar for a couple of minutes to get it under your fingers, then play the next. Start putting them together, then play them out of sequence.
CODE
E-------5--8--5--|------5--8--10--8--5---|------10--5--8--5-------5--------

B----8-----------|--8---------------------|--8-----------------8-----

G----------------|------------------------|-------------------------

D----------------|------------------------|---------------------------

A----------------|------------------------|--------------------------

E----------------|------------------------|---------------------------


You should be able to make up loads more using just these notes. Now the thing is, that when you do make up some more, you are writing original material (for you). It's very likely that if you use just the pentatonic in this way, that someone else has written it before you, but that's not what matters. It can be really encouraging to noodle away, and suddenly think "Hang on! That's off a Metallica song".

Use this type of approach in all your scales, all positions, and you will soon come up with some interesting stuff, regardless of your skill level

Regards,

/Tank

P.S. Nice to be back smile.gif
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redsoxfan92490
post Aug 1 2006, 11:04 PM
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i remember this. after about 8 months i was in the same position as you. i knew how to play some acoustical open chords G, D, A, E, etc and a couple bar chords. i knew the first form of the blues scale, or minor pentatonic. if you didnt know there are 5 forms or boxes to that scale.
im also guessing that you only play the scale in A and not in F# or C or E or D. i mean you play 5-8 5-7 5-7 5-7 5-8 5-8

take that same scale and move it around te fret board. learn the other 4 boxes. know the scale up and down and be able to play all the forms without stoping. thats what i did.

then i went back to the first form 5-8 5-7 5-7 etc and instead of goin just up and down, mix it up. acend and decend. do that for a month or 2 and just get comfortable with it.

then, (this is the best part when the practice pays off) one day you will wake up and someting will just click. you will be going up and down your scale , ascending and decending, but mabye you throw in a bend, a pull off and a vibrato. you'll stop and think "did i just do that" and your jaw will drop. then youl do it again, and again.

after that, its easy coasting from there. start on different notes in the scale and mix it up with bends, palm mutes, pull offs, hammers, trills, vibrato, and rake picking.

listen to other musicians and study ur brains out on this site.


now im doing the same thing with legato stuff. i know the scale, but cant make many licks. i know what its going to take. i cant wait until that moment when i do a massive legato run and end it with a bluesy pentatonic lick. yeah biggrin.gif
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redsoxfan92490
post Aug 2 2006, 01:21 AM
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oh yeah, when ur jamin with friends, its important to know how to play in the key of the rhythm guitarist. its very easy actually. memorize the notes on the fretboard, espically the low e string. basically what ever note you start on on the e string is the scale ur playing, example:

if you start on the 5th fret on the e string, (the fifth fret is an A) then you are playing the A pentatonic scale. to make it minor all u do is add a D# or e flat on the 5th and 3rd strings if my memory serves correctly. i think u said u played minor in ur post. anyways, if you move the scale up 3 frets to the 8th fret and play 8-11 8-10 8-10 8-10 8-11 8-11 then it becomes a c major pentatonic scale. move it up two more frets and its an E pentatonic. so essentially ur playing the same formation (1 4, 1 3, 1 3, 1 3, 1 4, 1 4, 1 as in ur index finger, 3 as in ur ring finger and 4 as in ur pinkey) all thorugh out the fret board.

this may sound a little confusing now but in a couple months ul understand.

also when u get better and can improvise with scales then jamming becomes way easier. say if ur buddy is playing e minor, a minor, and i think its b add 9 as a backing and doin a slow blues kinda thing u dont wanna do a wiked hugeand fast hammer on thing like 12h15p12h15p12 then hit the 15 on the b string and go back to 12h15p12h15p12



ud take it slow and ease into the backing. always play to the backing. if its a hard rock backing then u can do a crazy lick like that . but if its a slow, smooth thing then u wanna take it easy and dont speed thru it. anyone can play fast, but what makes a guitar player good being able to play to the rhythm guitarists.

put it this way


you could have kirk hametts speed but if you didnt have eric claptons sense of rhythm, theory, and what i call jamability then ur screwed. its gonna sound awful even though ur in the same key

again, this could sound confusing, but in time ull figure it out.

hope it helps
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KRmachine
post Aug 2 2006, 07:38 AM
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QUOTE (redsoxfan92490)
if you start on the 5th fret on the e string, (the fifth fret is an A) then you are playing the A pentatonic scale.  to make it minor all u do is add a D# or e flat on the 5th and 3rd strings if my memory serves correctly. i think u said u played minor in ur post.  anyways, if you move the scale up 3 frets to the 8th fret and play 8-11 8-10 8-10 8-10 8-11 8-11  then it becomes a c major pentatonic scale.  move it up two more frets and its an E pentatonic.   so essentially ur playing the same formation (1 4, 1 3, 1 3, 1 3, 1 4, 1 4, 1 as in ur index finger, 3 as in ur ring finger and 4 as in ur pinkey) all thorugh out the fret board.  


As I've understood it that pattern (1 4, 1 3, 1 3, 1 3, 1 4, 1 4) Is the minor pentatonic scale, so if you're playing 8-11 8-10 8-10 8-10 8-11 8-11 that would be a c minor pentatonic scale. But since A is the relative minor of C, if you were playing 5-8 5-7 5-7 5-7 5-8 5-8 that would be the C major pentatonic scale.

And if you add the flat 5 to the pentatonic scale (Eb if you're in A minor pentatonic) you get a blues scale, not a minor scale.
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ColinMurphy
post Aug 4 2006, 08:53 PM
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Improvising as Kris said cannot be stressed enough. What I do is improvise in a given scale, then once I feel confident with it's fingerings, I move on to a new one and so on. Check out Marty Friedman's Melodic Control (I think they have it at google video) for a completely cool different way to approach soloing techniques.
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post Aug 5 2006, 10:10 PM
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I actually did some simple improvisations around the blues scale I've been playing and sounds almost unbelievably good.. =)

my fingers will start to bleed soon.. thats how much fun it is.. smile.gif
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