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Starry Manhattan...
post Aug 2 2008, 03:36 AM
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Hey GMC,

A few weeks ago, I posted here about purchasing a mutli fx to compliment my Line 6 Spider III 30W and to be used for some basic recording. However, I don't still this will meet my tonal desires so I have decided that a owning a small tube combo might be in my near future.

Some of the amps I have looked into are:

*Laney LC15R
*Peavey Valveking 112
*Peavey JSX Mini Colossal
*Blackheart BH5H and BH112 Half Stack

I am looking for reasonably good cleans and a really smooth but still fairly hot distorted tone. I play a bit of instrumental rock but occasionally I'll venture into metal territory like Megadeth, Metallica, so a bit of extra grit would be good. Some of my influences and songs that I like the tone of:

*John Petrucci (Erotomania, Forsaken, Hollow Years-Live at Budokan Version
*Paul Gilbert (The Curse of Castle Dragon - I love this tone)
*Joe Satriani (Until We Say Goodbye, The Extremist)

I will not likely be gigging and I am only 17 and still at home, so I definitely do not need a huge combo or half stack. I am playing an Ibanez RG1570, which I hope to change the pickups for some DiMarzio's, but only after I replace the amp first.

I am open to suggestions as to small combo amps and pedals (including distortion pedals for extra gain) that will help me coax the best possible tone to meet the needs I have listed above.

Thanks for your help and all discussion and suggestions are appreciated.



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inertia
post Aug 2 2008, 04:15 AM
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QUOTE (Starry Manhattan Rain @ Aug 1 2008, 10:36 PM) *
Hey GMC,

A few weeks ago, I posted here about purchasing a mutli fx to compliment my Line 6 Spider III 30W and to be used for some basic recording. However, I don't still this will meet my tonal desires so I have decided that a owning a small tube combo might be in my near future.

Some of the amps I have looked into are:

*Laney LC15R
*Peavey Valveking 112
*Peavey JSX Mini Colossal
*Blackheart BH5H and BH112 Half Stack

I am looking for reasonably good cleans and a really smooth but still fairly hot distorted tone. I play a bit of instrumental rock but occasionally I'll venture into metal territory like Megadeth, Metallica, so a bit of extra grit would be good. Some of my influences and songs that I like the tone of:

*John Petrucci (Erotomania, Forsaken, Hollow Years-Live at Budokan Version
*Paul Gilbert (The Curse of Castle Dragon - I love this tone)
*Joe Satriani (Until We Say Goodbye, The Extremist)

I will not likely be gigging and I am only 17 and still at home, so I definitely do not need a huge combo or half stack. I am playing an Ibanez RG1570, which I hope to change the pickups for some DiMarzio's, but only after I replace the amp first.

I am open to suggestions as to small combo amps and pedals (including distortion pedals for extra gain) that will help me coax the best possible tone to meet the needs I have listed above.

Thanks for your help and all discussion and suggestions are appreciated.

All of those amps look quite good. However, if price is not an issue, you may want to look at the Mesa Boogie Express combos, the 50 watt and 25 watt have switches that make them 5 watt amps and they're supposed to be great for small gigs. I have heard nothing but great things about them but they are at least double the price of any amp on your list. From what I have seen of the blackheart, it does not seem as versatile compared to the others. The little JSX looks pretty cool actually.
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Muris Varajic
post Aug 2 2008, 09:06 AM
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Does it have to be an amp at all?
Amp are the best tone wise but also more expensive
comparing to processors and stuff like that.
And if it's only for home use,eventually recording as well,
than a processor might be better solution for you? smile.gif


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Starry Manhattan...
post Aug 2 2008, 10:44 AM
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QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Aug 2 2008, 06:06 PM) *
Does it have to be an amp at all?
Amp are the best tone wise but also more expensive
comparing to processors and stuff like that.
And if it's only for home use,eventually recording as well,
than a processor might be better solution for you? smile.gif


Yeah that's the problem I'm having. In another post in this thred that I created earlier (https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=17389&hl=birthday) Ivan Milenkovic said a Spider 3 is basically a POD with a speaker. This basically made me think that a processor wouldn't improve my tone either so thats why I'm now thinking of getting a small tube amp. I am hating the tone of my Spider (the distortion is just so digital sounding its not smooth is how I would describe it) and I am thinking a small tube amp may give me the tone I'm looking for.

Recording ability isn't that important to me atm, I'm not really sure why I said I needed it.


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kjutte
post Aug 2 2008, 11:30 AM
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QUOTE (Starry Manhattan Rain @ Aug 2 2008, 04:36 AM) *
Hey GMC,

A few weeks ago, I posted here about purchasing a mutli fx to compliment my Line 6 Spider III 30W and to be used for some basic recording. However, I don't still this will meet my tonal desires so I have decided that a owning a small tube combo might be in my near future.

Some of the amps I have looked into are:

*Laney LC15R
*Peavey Valveking 112
*Peavey JSX Mini Colossal
*Blackheart BH5H and BH112 Half Stack

I am looking for reasonably good cleans and a really smooth but still fairly hot distorted tone. I play a bit of instrumental rock but occasionally I'll venture into metal territory like Megadeth, Metallica, so a bit of extra grit would be good. Some of my influences and songs that I like the tone of:

*John Petrucci (Erotomania, Forsaken, Hollow Years-Live at Budokan Version
*Paul Gilbert (The Curse of Castle Dragon - I love this tone)
*Joe Satriani (Until We Say Goodbye, The Extremist)

I will not likely be gigging and I am only 17 and still at home, so I definitely do not need a huge combo or half stack. I am playing an Ibanez RG1570, which I hope to change the pickups for some DiMarzio's, but only after I replace the amp first.

I am open to suggestions as to small combo amps and pedals (including distortion pedals for extra gain) that will help me coax the best possible tone to meet the needs I have listed above.

Thanks for your help and all discussion and suggestions are appreciated.


For example for erotomania, you're very depended on the amp's gain, but for easy stuff like satriani, you gotta fix up your effects.
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Matt23
post Aug 2 2008, 11:45 AM
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I think if your wanting tubes and your not doing gigs it might be better to get a tube preamp, instead of an amp, so you don't pay for a speaker. Also what do you hate about the Spider cos i've never really noticed digital sounding distortion with my pod. Might just be my preference though. The only advice i can give about that is take some of the mod effect away.
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MickeM
post Aug 2 2008, 12:54 PM
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QUOTE (Starry Manhattan Rain @ Aug 2 2008, 04:36 AM) *
Some of the amps I have looked into are:

*Laney LC15R
*Peavey Valveking 112
*Peavey JSX Mini Colossal
*Blackheart BH5H and BH112 Half Stack

For the ones you looked into I'm fond of the Laney and I belive the Blackheart is a killer too, never yet heard it live but according to what people say it's great.

I've only got one objection against combos in general. My Peavey Classic 30 had one of it's power tubes run bad way too early, sit behind the combo and feel what's happening back there when you play. Putting the tubes behind the speaker is a horrible solution in regards to tube life span. The air is trembling and punching the tubes back there and that's what tubes dislike the most an that's why one went out resulting in bad sound.


A couple of other combos for you to concider, Orange AD5 and the Tiny Terror. They look appealing, and the Tiny Terror is available as a head aswell.


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Starry Manhattan...
post Aug 2 2008, 01:00 PM
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Just out of curiousity, what insturctors here at GMC use a multifx to record their lessons? A list would be good if anyone would be prepared to compile one.

It's weird because everyone including me finds the tone of the Spider to be poor, but nearly every review I read raves about the POD. I initially looked into getting a POD X3 or a Boss GT10 but then thought the POD would sound no different to my Spider.

Is it true that the POD sounds like a Spider? Because I know a lot of people then say Flextones and Vettas sound far better than the Spider's. How can one sound better than another, given their all digital amps?


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ZakkWylde
post Aug 2 2008, 01:45 PM
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I have two words for you: Tiny Terror!

This is a little 15 watt orange tube head or combo that features every tone you like from fender cleans to high gain distortion.


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post Aug 2 2008, 02:22 PM
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QUOTE (Starry Manhattan Rain @ Aug 2 2008, 02:00 PM) *
Just out of curiousity, what insturctors here at GMC use a multifx to record their lessons? A list would be good if anyone would be prepared to compile one.

It's weird because everyone including me finds the tone of the Spider to be poor, but nearly every review I read raves about the POD. I initially looked into getting a POD X3 or a Boss GT10 but then thought the POD would sound no different to my Spider.

Is it true that the POD sounds like a Spider? Because I know a lot of people then say Flextones and Vettas sound far better than the Spider's. How can one sound better than another, given their all digital amps?


The spider amps have cheaper effects processors than the POD's. Vettas have better processors than Flextones and POD's.


This post has been edited by Koopid: Aug 2 2008, 02:24 PM


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Muris Varajic
post Aug 2 2008, 03:21 PM
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QUOTE (Starry Manhattan Rain @ Aug 2 2008, 02:00 PM) *
Just out of curiousity, what insturctors here at GMC use a multifx to record their lessons?


I use Korg Pandora PX4D,no amp or cab,straight into audio card.


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Starry Manhattan...
post Aug 3 2008, 03:55 AM
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QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Aug 3 2008, 12:21 AM) *
I use Korg Pandora PX4D,no amp or cab,straight into audio card.


Man and Muris your tone is pretty sweet. I might have to look into the Pandora, although I'm not sure what sound card my PC has. I checked Device Manager and there were a few things including 'Realtek High Definition Audio' but I'm not sure about the Hardware. Any advice on how to determine what sound card I have would also be appreciated.


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Muris Varajic
post Aug 3 2008, 10:46 AM
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QUOTE (Starry Manhattan Rain @ Aug 3 2008, 04:55 AM) *
Man and Muris your tone is pretty sweet. I might have to look into the Pandora, although I'm not sure what sound card my PC has. I checked Device Manager and there were a few things including 'Realtek High Definition Audio' but I'm not sure about the Hardware. Any advice on how to determine what sound card I have would also be appreciated.


Just go for a card with good analog-digital (A/D) converter,
that's the main thing to record healthy signal on HD.
I have E-MU 1820m , just as a reference. smile.gif


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Fran
post Aug 3 2008, 05:45 PM
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If you get a Pandora PX5D you don't have to worry about your soundcard, because it has a built-in USB audio inteface so you can record straight into your computer.

Just in case you might to check out PX5D instead of PX4D!


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Starry Manhattan...
post Aug 4 2008, 07:10 AM
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QUOTE (Fran @ Aug 4 2008, 02:45 AM) *
If you get a Pandora PX5D you don't have to worry about your soundcard, because it has a built-in USB audio inteface so you can record straight into your computer.

Just in case you might to check out PX5D instead of PX4D!


Thanks Fran, that definitely helps me out a lot and probably saved me quite a bit of money too!


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mattacuk
post Aug 4 2008, 08:08 AM
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I found processors to be a much better option for home use than small tube combos. They sure sound tempting, but in reality they really didnt improve my tone in the slightest! I sold a £360 Vox tube amp and got myself a Pod X3, much better IMO for practice and recording smile.gif


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Starry Manhattan...
post Aug 4 2008, 12:04 PM
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QUOTE (mattacuk @ Aug 4 2008, 05:08 PM) *
I found processors to be a much better option for home use than small tube combos. They sure sound tempting, but in reality they really didnt improve my tone in the slightest! I sold a £360 Vox tube amp and got myself a Pod X3, much better IMO for practice and recording smile.gif


Man that is encouraging, but now I'm just stuck as to which multi fx to get and I'm now back where my first "what to get thread" left off. I have heard good things about the POD X3, the Boss GT 10, the Korg PX5D and more. Man I'm just stumped for choice.

I just hope that whatever multi fx thing I get, I could dial in a tone or a preset that rapes my Spider so violently that I feel I have exacted even just a bit of revenge on it for being such a P.O.S, toneless amp.

Also Matt, that is one sweet PGM301you have yourself there. If I could have afforded it, I definitely would have got one instead of my RG1570, although apart from some tuning instability with the trem at times and the crap stock pickups, I can't complain because it is still a sick guitar.

Ok then, advice on the pros and cons of the various multifx's I have listed would be appreciated.

EDIT: I just read up on Guitar Rig 3, and it seems pretty sweet. How does it compare to the other Mulitfx's I have listed and with any of these units hooked up to my computer, could I play and have sound come out my speakers?

This post has been edited by Starry Manhattan Rain: Aug 4 2008, 12:08 PM


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MickeM
post Aug 4 2008, 01:12 PM
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Now you've moved from small combo all the way to Guitar rig 3. Tubeamp -> Software one could put it wink.gif

I think you're floating all over the place here, better state what your needs are and start from that end instead. Otherwise the risk is that you'll never end up with what you want.

So, what do you need?
What do you expect from your gear?
How do you plan to use it?

Questions like that.


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mattacuk
post Aug 4 2008, 09:17 PM
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QUOTE (Starry Manhattan Rain @ Aug 4 2008, 12:04 PM) *
Also Matt, that is one sweet PGM301you have yourself there. If I could have afforded it, I definitely would have got one instead of my RG1570, although apart from some tuning instability with the trem at times and the crap stock pickups, I can't complain because it is still a sick guitar.


Glad you like it, it is a perfect instrament IMO! smile.gif I rarley ever have to tune it, and the sustain is awsome. It is just a very classy act. Your RG1570 is an awsome guitar too though, I would be pleased with it also smile.gif

With regards to the processors, I know the PX5D is awsome value for money, the Pod X3 is more expensive but loads of tones there also. Like MickeM says, it would be a good idea if you listed what you need and expect from your process/amp.

The problem I find with all "budget" tube amps is they just dont sound as good as you think they will. I found that out the hard way ! Most of them are low gain, some have nice cleans (fender blus junior for example) but most dont do heavy stuff. Me personally Im not a metal head but I love shred ala gilbert, buckethead etc so I need a high gain amp.

To get an amp with the tone I personally want, it would have to be a Mesa Boogie and that is big ££££. The easyiest option for now was of course a Pod, sure they dont sound as good, but its the closest I can get without haveing to rob a bank laugh.gif laugh.gif

In my price range the tube amps I could have had were:

Vox AC15cc ( breaks easy, sounds like the beatles when it works but nothing special)
Fender Blues Junior ( beautiful cleans, but wont do shreds laugh.gif )
Peavey Valve King ( many mixed opinions all over the net, probably not the tone im after)
Laney VC30 (british invasion sound again, good amp but low gain)

So nothing suited me really, I bought a Korg PX4D before xmas and it had the sounds I was after!! I got the pod eventually because I had some spare cash and I liked Marcus's tone so i thought it would be a good move.

So thats my amp story biggrin.gif laugh.gif


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Starry Manhattan...
post Aug 5 2008, 08:12 AM
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QUOTE (mattacuk @ Aug 5 2008, 06:17 AM) *
Glad you like it, it is a perfect instrament IMO! smile.gif I rarley ever have to tune it, and the sustain is awsome. It is just a very classy act. Your RG1570 is an awsome guitar too though, I would be pleased with it also smile.gif

With regards to the processors, I know the PX5D is awsome value for money, the Pod X3 is more expensive but loads of tones there also. Like MickeM says, it would be a good idea if you listed what you need and expect from your process/amp.

The problem I find with all "budget" tube amps is they just dont sound as good as you think they will. I found that out the hard way ! Most of them are low gain, some have nice cleans (fender blus junior for example) but most dont do heavy stuff. Me personally Im not a metal head but I love shred ala gilbert, buckethead etc so I need a high gain amp.

To get an amp with the tone I personally want, it would have to be a Mesa Boogie and that is big ££££. The easyiest option for now was of course a Pod, sure they dont sound as good, but its the closest I can get without haveing to rob a bank laugh.gif laugh.gif

In my price range the tube amps I could have had were:

Vox AC15cc ( breaks easy, sounds like the beatles when it works but nothing special)
Fender Blues Junior ( beautiful cleans, but wont do shreds laugh.gif )
Peavey Valve King ( many mixed opinions all over the net, probably not the tone im after)
Laney VC30 (british invasion sound again, good amp but low gain)

So nothing suited me really, I bought a Korg PX4D before xmas and it had the sounds I was after!! I got the pod eventually because I had some spare cash and I liked Marcus's tone so i thought it would be a good move.

So thats my amp story biggrin.gif laugh.gif


I too like Marcus' tone, it is truly inspirational. Also, Muris, Harris Sopovic and Zsolt Galambos' tone is awesome too.

Well in terms of what I am looking for, I am demanding pretty high quality tones and effects as I am trying to emulate some pretty amazing tones. I am looking for as much sustain and as warm tones as one can get from a simulator with tones including:

*John Petrucci has influenced my tonal desires immensely, and if I had the cash, I would have a Mesa Mark IV right now. I love his rhythm and lead tones tone on tracks like "Erotomania"," Forsaken", LTE tracks including "When The Water Breaks" (particularly the first solo, I would buy a multi fx if I could get near this tone using it), "Universal Mind" and "Paradigm Shift" and his solo album tracks including "Lost Without You" and "Wishful Thinking".

*Paul Gilbert has been a more recent influence, and tracks like "The Curse of Castle Dragon", "Suite Modale"(how does Paul get this tone, I guessed that maybe he used an ebow?) and his older Racer X tone I also quite like.

Basically, I hate the tone of my Spider and I guessed that a small tube amp would be a big step up from it. I had heard a POD was exactly the same as Spider, minus the speaker and this is why I moved away from the idea of getting a multifx in the first place. I hat that when I am playing melodic Petrucci style solos such as some of those I listed above, I can not get near the smooth almost liquidy tone John can achieve. I know I will not be able to achieve these tones exactly, but I am hoping I can get closer than I have been.

If I plug the POD or another multifx into my Spider on the clean channel, and just use the multifx for all amp, cab, and effects, would it sound half decent or would the Spider colour the tone of the POD heaps?

I would also be interested in getting preset patches that people have made, so which multi fx has the largest community base for doing this?

In terms of running any of the multifx I have listed through my computer, is there anyway I could play through the fx unit and have sound come from my computer speakers?

If I was to get any one of these units, would changing the pickups in my guitar from the stock Ibanez V7-S1-V8 to high end DiMarzio's, maybe an Air Norton and a Steve's Special increase the quality of the tone any further? Or would the fact the multifx is digital and processed make high quality pickups pointless?

Thank you everyone for all your help!

This post has been edited by Starry Manhattan Rain: Aug 5 2008, 08:18 AM


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