2 Pages V  < 1 2  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Looking For A Small Tube Combo
MickeM
post Aug 5 2008, 10:12 AM
Post #21


Born of NWOBHM, Moderation Team Leader
*

Group: Members
Posts: 8.562
Joined: 9-January 07
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Member No.: 1.062



QUOTE (Starry Manhattan Rain @ Aug 5 2008, 09:12 AM) *
Well in terms of what I am looking for, I am demanding pretty high quality tones and effects as I am trying to emulate some pretty amazing tones. I am looking for as much sustain and as warm tones as one can get from a simulator with tones including:

"Emulate" and "simulator", as far as ease of use and simulated tones goes I'd recommend the POD X3 Live, I've got that. I used to be a tube amp purist and the reasons for that mosty came of bad experiences and huge disappointment with solid state amps and digital effects in the past. I havn't tried my POD live with a PA - plugging it into a speaker for amp simulation is useless I've heard so I'm not even going there, but amp sim can be turned off to only use the effects - so I wouldn't know how that works. But for headphones listening and for recording, I'm a tube amp purist gone digital. wink.gif

QUOTE
*John Petrucci has influenced my tonal desires immensely, and if I had the cash, I would have a Mesa Mark IV right now. I love his rhythm and lead tones tone on tracks like "Erotomania"," Forsaken", LTE tracks including "When The Water Breaks" (particularly the first solo, I would buy a multi fx if I could get near this tone using it), "Universal Mind" and "Paradigm Shift" and his solo album tracks including "Lost Without You" and "Wishful Thinking".

*Paul Gilbert has been a more recent influence, and tracks like "The Curse of Castle Dragon", "Suite Modale"(how does Paul get this tone, I guessed that maybe he used an ebow?) and his older Racer X tone I also quite like.

Only you can be the judge of what a POD or a BOSS can do for you. But if you're looking for a wide variety of amp sounds I don't see another way to go. Check www.netmusicians.org at diffent clips, like for example the sounds you can archive from a simple Blackheart Little Giant tube amp if you put your mind to it. Put a Marshall Guvnr pedal infront of it and you'll have a "Marshall amp" at your hands, without that pedal... it's only that much you can tweak out of an amp with a OD pedal alone. If you're prepared to buy more pedals and/or effects you can do a lot more soundwise, but not so much amp character wise.

QUOTE
Basically, I hate the tone of my Spider and I guessed that a small tube amp would be a big step up from it. I had heard a POD was exactly the same as Spider, minus the speaker and this is why I moved away from the idea of getting a multifx in the first place. I hat that when I am playing melodic Petrucci style solos such as some of those I listed above, I can not get near the smooth almost liquidy tone John can achieve. I know I will not be able to achieve these tones exactly, but I am hoping I can get closer than I have been.

I don't know about the old POD or the Spider but the POD X3 has one feature that I think is superior, it's that you can have dual sounds i.e one amp model on the left channel and another amp on the right channel. Gives a certain fullness to the sound. It's a shortcut imo compared to the technique of recording several takes on the exact same track and pan them L and R and mid to reach fullness in sound.
This mentioned is all about recording, I wouldn't know how it sounds live but that wasn't my idea in the first place when I got it, it was only for recording purposes. For live playing I'm not moving away from tube amps.

QUOTE
If I plug the POD or another multifx into my Spider on the clean channel, and just use the multifx for all amp, cab, and effects, would it sound half decent or would the Spider colour the tone of the POD heaps?

From what I've read a couple dozen times here in the forum it will sound like crap. People who tried recommend using a sterile sounding keyboard amp or that other amp where you can dock the POD right in, I don't remember the name of it.

QUOTE
I would also be interested in getting preset patches that people have made, so which multi fx has the largest community base for doing this?

I don't know who has the largest, I know POD has at least one community, maybe there are several more, with sound patches and I'm sure BOSS got them too.

QUOTE
In terms of running any of the multifx I have listed through my computer, is there anyway I could play through the fx unit and have sound come from my computer speakers?

If you get a POD X3 know it's a sound interface with various inputs and outputs. Check the back of the POD (or BOSS) and see what fits into your speakers.

QUOTE
If I was to get any one of these units, would changing the pickups in my guitar from the stock Ibanez V7-S1-V8 to high end DiMarzio's, maybe an Air Norton and a Steve's Special increase the quality of the tone any further? Or would the fact the multifx is digital and processed make high quality pickups pointless?

Pickups make a difference.


Sounds to me you've got your mind set on a modeler. But mind you can make any sound with a small tube amp if you wish, it's just about how skilled you are and that you know exactly what you have to do to achive fifferent sounds. And miking a live sound is a different story, a soundinterface with amp sim definitly makes life easier.
When miking an amp you can either get a brilliant sound or total crap. If you can isolate the speaker (from outer distubing sounds) and place the mic just right it can be great. Place the mic a bit wrong and you'll get a thin out of phase sound. But again, check the sound examples at www.netmusicians.org as many of these musicians know how to make a good recording.
Poor recording (soundwise, never mind the playing)
Good recording of the very same amp (Krank Jr)
You can of course fail with the POD too, things like adding ridicilous amounts of gain because "gain is cool" but then I'm convinced that mistake would be there for when miking an amp aswell.

With a POD X3 (I can't speak for any other pod since I never had one) you'll get an advanced sound interface that will allow you to record guitar/bass/vocals or why not even mic a tube amp? wink.gif
Good recorded sound.
I put a question mark in regards to how it sounds live. Probably fair ehough.
Easy to make recordings, plug n play.
Easy editing, all the pieces you need to create your sound is right there.

Getting a tube amp you could still record directly into the computer with use of various sound interfaces, like a redbox (see Hughes and Kettner), or the line out if there is one, or mic.
Great recorded sound - if you get it right i.e.
Great live sound.
Takes quite abit of setting up before one can start recording.
Comes with a maintenance cost for the tube changes
At the least you have to get a good OD pedal.
Takes a lot of work and knowledge to make one amp simulate the sound of an other. The character of one amp can't be washed out. You may get close but not as close as an amp sim.

If you have a Marshall tube amp that in itself will make a better Marshall sound than the X3 but if you don't know how to mic or don't have good enough stuff to record proper the X3 will surely make a better recorded Marshall sound than the real deal. If you want to make your Marshall amp sound like a Fender, meh, I guess you could fetch it at break up minus the headroom feel but for cleans, nope not good.

So for recording purposes I'd recommend you the X3, I belive it's a better alternative than the XT because of a couple reasons.
- You get all the add-ons stock
- You have the dual sound and this is purely brilliant for finding the sounds you like.

I don't know if the XT has possibility to record vocals but that's a plus too in my book. The X3 is a complete sound interface. I don't know what Boss GT10 has to offer besides that touch n create sounds display in forms of vocals recording and dual sounds that compares with the X3.

With the X3 you have to accept the fact that it's not a real Mesa Boogie Mark IV or a real Marshall JCM800 or a real Peavey 5150 or a real ENGL Powerball, but it does a real good job prentending to.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
mattacuk
post Aug 5 2008, 10:21 AM
Post #22


Lets go fishing!
Group Icon

Group: GMC Senior
Posts: 5.526
Joined: 21-December 06
From: illinois
Member No.: 1.001



What he said ^ laugh.gif laugh.gif wink.gif


--------------------
mysql> SELECT * FROM master_name WHERE ((firstname = 'Paul') AND (lastname = 'Gilbert'));


"The Fundimental Difference between Paul Gilbert and Buckethead is that Paul Explores the Good side of the force, while Buckethead Explores the Dark Side of the Force" :)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Starry Manhattan...
post Aug 5 2008, 10:22 AM
Post #23


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 76
Joined: 29-December 07
From: Sydney, Australia
Member No.: 3.646



QUOTE (MickeM @ Aug 5 2008, 07:12 PM) *
"Emulate" and "simulator", as far as ease of use and simulated tones goes I'd recommend the POD X3 Live, I've got that. I used to be a tube amp purist and the reasons for that mosty came of bad experiences and huge disappointment with solid state amps and digital effects in the past. I havn't tried my POD live with a PA - plugging it into a speaker for amp simulation is useless I've heard so I'm not even going there, but amp sim can be turned off to only use the effects - so I wouldn't know how that works. But for headphones listening and for recording, I'm a tube amp purist gone digital. wink.gif


Only you can be the judge of what a POD or a BOSS can do for you. But if you're looking for a wide variety of amp sounds I don't see another way to go. Check www.netmusicians.org at diffent clips, like for example the sounds you can archive from a simple Blackheart Little Giant tube amp if you put your mind to it. Put a Marshall Guvnr pedal infront of it and you'll have a "Marshall amp" at your hands, without that pedal... it's only that much you can tweak out of an amp with a OD pedal alone. If you're prepared to buy more pedals and/or effects you can do a lot more soundwise, but not so much amp character wise.


I don't know about the old POD or the Spider but the POD X3 has one feature that I think is superior, it's that you can have dual sounds i.e one amp model on the left channel and another amp on the right channel. Gives a certain fullness to the sound. It's a shortcut imo compared to the technique of recording several takes on the exact same track and pan them L and R and mid to reach fullness in sound.
This mentioned is all about recording, I wouldn't know how it sounds live but that wasn't my idea in the first place when I got it, it was only for recording purposes. For live playing I'm not moving away from tube amps.


From what I've read a couple dozen times here in the forum it will sound like crap. People who tried recommend using a sterile sounding keyboard amp or that other amp where you can dock the POD right in, I don't remember the name of it.


I don't know who has the largest, I know POD has at least one community, maybe there are several more, with sound patches and I'm sure BOSS got them too.


If you get a POD X3 know it's a sound interface with various inputs and outputs. Check the back of the POD (or BOSS) and see what fits into your speakers.


Pickups make a difference.


Sounds to me you've got your mind set on a modeler. But mind you can make any sound with a small tube amp if you wish, it's just about how skilled you are and that you know exactly what you have to do to achive fifferent sounds. And miking a live sound is a different story, a soundinterface with amp sim definitly makes life easier.
When miking an amp you can either get a brilliant sound or total crap. If you can isolate the speaker (from outer distubing sounds) and place the mic just right it can be great. Place the mic a bit wrong and you'll get a thin out of phase sound. But again, check the sound examples at www.netmusicians.org as many of these musicians know how to make a good recording.
Poor recording (soundwise, never mind the playing)
Good recording of the very same amp (Krank Jr)
You can of course fail with the POD too, things like adding ridicilous amounts of gain because "gain is cool" but then I'm convinced that mistake would be there for when miking an amp aswell.

With a POD X3 (I can't speak for any other pod since I never had one) you'll get an advanced sound interface that will allow you to record guitar/bass/vocals or why not even mic a tube amp? wink.gif
Good recorded sound.
I put a question mark in regards to how it sounds live. Probably fair ehough.
Easy to make recordings, plug n play.
Easy editing, all the pieces you need to create your sound is right there.

Getting a tube amp you could still record directly into the computer with use of various sound interfaces, like a redbox (see Hughes and Kettner), or the line out if there is one, or mic.
Great recorded sound - if you get it right i.e.
Great live sound.
Takes quite abit of setting up before one can start recording.
Comes with a maintenance cost for the tube changes
At the least you have to get a good OD pedal.
Takes a lot of work and knowledge to make one amp simulate the sound of an other. The character of one amp can't be washed out. You may get close but not as close as an amp sim.

If you have a Marshall tube amp that in itself will make a better Marshall sound than the X3 but if you don't know how to mic or don't have good enough stuff to record proper the X3 will surely make a better recorded Marshall sound than the real deal. If you want to make your Marshall amp sound like a Fender, meh, I guess you could fetch it at break up minus the headroom feel but for cleans, nope not good.

So for recording purposes I'd recommend you the X3, I belive it's a better alternative than the XT because of a couple reasons.
- You get all the add-ons stock
- You have the dual sound and this is purely brilliant for finding the sounds you like.

I don't know if the XT has possibility to record vocals but that's a plus too in my book. The X3 is a complete sound interface. I don't know what Boss GT10 has to offer besides that touch n create sounds display in forms of vocals recording and dual sounds that compares with the X3.

With the X3 you have to accept the fact that it's not a real Mesa Boogie Mark IV or a real Marshall JCM800 or a real Peavey 5150 or a real ENGL Powerball, but it does a real good job prentending to.


Thank you for such as incredibly detailed response!


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V  < 1 2
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 


RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 24th March 2017 - 03:19 AM